Bitcoin Forum

https://twitter.com/chollimaorg/status/1471122707337347072

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BREAKING: Satoshi Nakamoto has already invented what Putin, and Xi’s independent infrastructure to service trade between Russia, and China. Another way of saying, “we don’t want to be censored by sanctions”.

I believe it was also China itself that has proven that Bitcoin is invulnerable to pressure from third parties. 8)

At first, I wasn't sure if the news were legit, but I found articles on Russian news (https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/61ba245c9a794740cdf29a77) websites about it, so it seems like the talk actually happened. They want an infrastructure that won't be under control of third countries, but there's a big potential difference from Bitcoin: there's nothing there about the financial infrastructure being independent altogether. Bitcoin's not under control of the US, but it's not under control of China or Russia either. I believe this is not desirable for Putin and Xi, as they'd prefer a centralized currency that would be under their mutual control. That being said, it might be very hard to achieve, so they might settle on something like Bitcoin as good enough.

Even comparing bitcoin with this is understating the capabilities of bitcoin. Countries will be countries and their fiat currencies will be theirs. I see this move of China and Russia as a way to be less independent of US and many other European countries while this country will be producing to African countries to make them have more successful ambitions because Africans countries are most dependent on production from countries like China. But there is no way I am comparing bitcoin with this because there is nothing decentralized about this. The decentralized means of bitcoin make it invulnerable to pressure from third parties.

This is not surprising, this has been going on for many years. The "east" is moving away from US controlled currency and is internalizing its affairs. One of the steps in that direction is replacing US dollar with another currency. Obviously every country would want their currency to be the replacement so they can't come up with an agreement unless they create a new payment system or adopt bitcoin. Bitcoin adoption is not happening at this stage so the only viable option is the first one.

Bitcoin with its public ledger would not be suitable for the needs that Putin and Xi have. They wouldn't want the whole world to see or be able to find what was sent and when it was sent. Maybe they can improve and update the Lightning Network and open a channel between themselves to be able to exchange thousands of bitcoins. ;D

Luckily for Russia and China, they are powerful nations that can't be pushed around like Saddam or Ghaddafi. That's why we won't see the democratic eagle fly over their skies.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/48271551/would-you-like-us-to-bring-them-some-democracy.jpg

Well, why would two countries want to trust a piece of software that are run by mostly non-communist developers? Putin showed some interest in Ethereum because he thought Vitaly Dmitriyevich "Vitalik" Buterin a Russian born would be a good option to pick. The thing is Vitaly Dmitriyevich "Vitalik" Buterin is a Canadian citizen, so it is not a perfect fit.

These two countries want FULL control over their digital currency, like they have over their own Fiat currencies and Bitcoin does not give them FULL control.  ;)

K.. I believed he was from Belarus since that was brought up.

They have a base on the dark side of the moon where they "tarde" all the secret stuff. Degen deals. Poker. Hookers. You name it.

Come on. They can't control a lot if they cut their own wires.

By "east" you mean China and Russia as the other former enemies of the US in the east are welcoming them with open arms. The first US warships have been seen docking in Vietnamese ports, South Korea and Japan are US allies, who else in the "east" is shifting away from the US? India, Australia? Thailand? Every single country there is more concerned with China than with the US.
Ending the US dollar and replacing it with what, the yuan? Just lol.

I simply can't understand your enthusiasm here when the only true allies China has are ones that just like it have a grudge against everything that means freedom from bitcoin to everything!
Russia, Iran, and China, wonder why every citizen there wants to run away to the corrupt and pitiful US.  ;D

As for the news itself, trade between Russia and China...
A gas station and a peddler desperate to sell merchandise are teaming together!
Russia represents for China 10% of the US market and when it comes to imports, not even half of Germany.
They are just making a propaganda movie, they know that their partnership is doomed, one needs buyers the other needs money.
Remember BRICS? The one alliance that was supposed to do...I forgot what, I only know they did shit! ;)


Oh yeah, so good for the Chinese poeple that they are sheltered from the threats of democracy.
Must be heaven on earth there, wonder why millions are fleeing to the US and EU however they can.

I could say that you've misunderstood it. The infrastructure has to be independent from third parties and invulnerable for pressure by third parties.
They won't give up their control over the financial infrastructure to be, hence bitcoin doesn't fit this description.

They want their network to “be designed to be invulnerable to pressure from third parties”. Obviously they prefer censorship-resistance, and a financial infrastructure separate from SWIFT, which Bitcoin truly is waiting to serve them. But, they would never admit it, especially China.

Wanting Bitcoin without Bitcoin, an interesting thought although of course it makes no sense. Bitcoin is a decentralized cryptocurrency, and if Russia and China want an independent financial infrastructure, then they will design a centralized financial product that will be 100% under their control, and it can never be anything like Bitcoin.

So isn't China a leader in the CBDC and the digital yuan has already become commonplace in that country? Let the Russians make their own CBDC and then let them trade with each other if they want to - no one is forcing them to use the US dollar or the euro.

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These people live under very cruel regimes (especially the Chinese), but US democracy in the way they usually deliver it would be nothing from which people in those countries would benefit significantly. Since 1990, trillions of dollars have been spent on various wars aimed at overthrowing tyrants and so-called terrorist states, and do people live better today in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, or Libya? The only right way to change in these countries is to come from within the people themselves, but this is an almost impossible mission at the moment.

This is what I'm actually thinking. Maybe they are trying to create a new token that builds on there own Blockchain technology. I remember last year that China has already starting to research about Blockchain and trying to create there own coin that wll rival Bitcoin and Dollar. You can check the article below for the source and I strongly believe that is the cryptocurrency they pertains for the problem that they are discussing.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-01/china-is-making-cryptocurrency-to-challenge-bitcoin-and-dollar

The Bitcoin price is too volatile and a large portion of the BTC miners are now located in USA and Canada.
Not a great choice for both Russia and China.
I think that China and Russia want to dump the US dollar and create their own fiat payment system,which will be independent from the global(US dominated) fiat financial system.Crypto will not be considered as a real option by the both governments.More like the ruble will be tied to the yuan in a fixed currency rate.
The western world is too afraid to impose sanctions over China,because this might backfire into the western economies,which are relying on Chinese goods and many western corporations are doing business in China.

Of course it's not heaven on earth. It's awful living under a tyrant. But is it better now in the places where the regimes were overthrown by the Americans and 1 million civilians (at least) lost their lives in the bombings that led to those regime changes? Do you think it matters whether one losses their life by a tyrant or in the aftermath of a bombing that tears your home down? Think as a parent or a man who lost those closest to him.

Except the fact that it's highly likely that they don't want something like Bitcoin. I mean, they wouldn't have power and control over Bitcoin so.. and let's not forget we're talking about China's overlord Xi Jinping here.

Srsly, why would they want to put their trades on fully transparent ledger that can only handle a million transactions per day globally and is not controlled by either of them? What if they will need to reverse a transaction, or block transaction if a hacking incident occurs? I doubt they will ever even hold Bitcoin as a reserve asset, purely out of fear that the US has backdoors to it.

Apples and avengers figurines.
Let's compare the regimes, not the war when those same dictators were waging war between them with what can you compare that? If all those poeple are so angry at the US and NATO for the bombing why are they trying to enter Europe by the millions?
Also, can you please show some proof of the claim of 1 million! civilian deaths in the bombing by the US?
Because that number is higher than both Japanese and German causalities from bombing in all of ww2, let's not pull numbers out of our your know what!

Japan was nearly razed to the ground by the US, Korea was looking like a 3rd world country in 1960 yet look, both countries are better of than any in all of Asia. Maybe it's not so much about the failure of the US but the mentality of the poeple there?

Yeah, the US is evil, but miraculously, everyone flocks there, most companies that invest in bitcoin are from the US, it has the most ATMs, most nodes, most lighting nodes, and channels, the biggest share of hashrate, yet ...the US is evil.


All the changes have to come from the poeple to make a difference, there are simply some who can't be saved, how has Asia and parts of Europe recovered after far deadlier conflicts and others simply can't, even if they had no major war on the entire continent for a century?

But it's easier for them to point fingers at others.

Xi pump in 2019, do you remember it?

Bitcoin Jumps 12% as China's Xi Embraces Blockchain, Boosting Crypto Sentiment (https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2019/10/25/bitcoin-jumps-12-as-chinas-xi-embraces-blockchain-boosting-crypto-sentiment/)

How did they engage into Bitcoin and how did they try to manipulate market with national news like that are myth. We are not able to verify their interest in Bitcoin.

I don't think any government will ignore Bitcoin if they see it is store of asset and see chance to get rich for national reserve. Soon, after El Salvador, we will se other nations, from small to big loading up Bitcoin into their national reserves. It would be a very big game.

Russia and China can create a joint stablecoin or use the already created Chinese digitalized yuan for this. I don't see much of a problem with this. Given the attitude of the governments of these countries towards cryptocurrency, it is safe to say that they will not use bitcoin or other cryptocurrency for this purpose. However, such a problem exists for them, since international sanctions are imposed on both states.

Oh, what  surprise:
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/12/16/russian-central-bank-seeks-ban-on-crypto-investment-report/



https://cbr.ru/press/event/?id=12526


What a coincidence...
The miraculous "east" that stands against the evil US is also declaring bitcoin an enemy.
Is anyone actually surprised by this?

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/06/12/AKgz5.jpeg

US has indeed colonized many countries around the world like Japan, South Korea, Vietnam,... but there are a lot of other countries in the world.
The Shanghai Cooperation Organization for example is a good indication of how the transition is taking place. SCO is the largest alliance in the world considering geography, population and economy. If you think they are all "enemies of US" then maybe you are also admitting that something is seriously wrong with the US!

It doesn't necessarily have to be replaced. They just abandon US dollar and use other means of payment.

Funny I never mentioned China and I don't know where you got enthusiasm from. It is just an observation based on things that have been happening. I hate China as much as the next fellow but my personal feelings is not changing the reality of how China has been growing economically and otherwise.

Well you gotta ask them and make sure to ask whether their lives have improved or not after the migration ;D
You should also ask those of them who reverse migrate back to their countries about why they did it after reaching the "land of the free" LOL

FTFY

More like dejavu since the media has been reporting bitcoin ban from all kinds of countries including Russia for years.

There is a very big difference between a country's leadership and its people, culture, or traditions. The US and its people are not evil. But the US, its people, and its army was mislead to wage a war based on a lie of nuclear weapons aimed at destroying the United States. A war that took at least 7.000 lives of American soldiers (https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/military/killed) in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Bush administration was made up of evil and power-hungry individuals that put the country at shame in my opinion. Even more embarrassment was caused by the presidency of the orange Dick... I mean Donald.

I despise my own country's government, but not my country and its people. And I have similar feelings for the past ones in America. This is now an off-topic discussion, so I am going to stop right here.

I remember I asked you for a source about the 1 million poeple that died in US aerial bombardments, not about anything else, so you either cite that or not, don't try to weasel your way out of it after making such ridiculous claims.  :D


That didn't stop you from throwing in your first message a ton of whataboutism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) bringing in the US in a discussion that was about China and Russia.


Yeah, an alliance that includes China and India, there is sooo much cooperation between those I can't hold my emotions and my tears thinking of the great things that will come from it. When I see that it has also have Pakistan in it alongside India I'm just perplexed it even works...oh wait, it doesn't, they don't even have a  trade agreement. It's an organization just as useless as BRICS, something they do to show they plan on thinking on a plan of doing something.


So you're telling me to search for the needle in 100 trucks of hay?
5000 poeple denounced their US citizenship compared to 22 million applications alone a year. Yeah, everyone is disgusted by the American dream, probably the ones that got their green card refused the most, that would explain a lot of things.


https://cbr.ru/press/event/?id=12526
This is not "the media" and it's nothing uncertain and doubtful about it.

It won’t make any sense of you take it too literally. The point is they want censorship-resistance, and a build network-infrastructure that is not vulnerable to attacks from third parties. Are they describing something like Bitcoin? Yes they are. Plus if they truly try to build their “network”, they will fail. Bitcoin is already here, and ready.

I bought a VPN for 30000 BTT just to find out Russia and China was out censored now. How do you think I feel about that? It was great fun bombing the yobit chat from Moscow ;-) Troll wise. Global village. See what I am saying is money is good when they are paid for. Expensive money costs more.

I remember how easy it was to convince uneducated masses of people that China is pro-Bitcoin, and that shows how much people actually understand the difference between Bitcoin and blockchain. In that case, I wouldn't blame China for anything - it's the fault of those who had no idea what the news meant.


Are you sure these other governments are waiting for the price of Bitcoin to rise even higher to start buying it for their national reserves? So just look at the views of the world's biggest governments on Bitcoin, from China, Russia, India, the UK, or the US - do you see anything positive? Countries that do not have their own national currency and that have no other choice are the most likely candidates to do something similar to El Salvador - the only problem is that they do not have a president or government like that country.

@Wind_FURY
I remember reading about a somewhat similar story concerning Russia and Iran a couple of years back, so I'm assuming that one didn't succeed and now they're trying to build version 2.0 with China in the picture! Let's assume for a second that they'd be using their own CBDCs ^{[or as you said, "Bitcoin without a Bitcoin"]} to trade with each other, I don't think that'll end with a different result since, at some point, one of them would probably want more control ^{[based on their true nature]} over the other one ^{[I don't think it's going to work in the long run]}.

• Quote from: https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-09-16/Why-Russia-and-Iran-are-ditching-the-dollar-K1Sy3yeIak/index.html
  However, Russia and Iran are working together to ditch the dollar to weaken the effects of U.S. sanctions.
  
  The two are working to develop a new financial transfer system to replace the U.S.-controlled SWIFT. This system would circumvent third country sanctions, Russian presidential adviser for international affairs Yuri Ushakov told the media.
  
  "In order to protect bilateral trade and economic ties from third country sanctions, measures are taken on the expansion of direct payments, the use of national currencies, the improvement interactions between the Russian financial transfers system and the Iranian Sepam, as an alternative for payments to SWIFT," said Ushakov.

You are starting to sound very American, sorry I mean racist :D

They don't have to denounce their citizenship to go back! They become dual citizens. Considering majority of them are living on minimum wage in the most expensive and racist country in the whole world it is not really a surprise that many of them want to go back and some can gather enough money for a plane ticket home.

Except that it has nothing to do with "a complete ban on future crypto investments in the country" as the fake article puts it. It is a proposal that mutual funds be invested in assets that are recommended by the proposal and avoid putting it in cryptocurrencies.
I'd say the ban that exists in US that prevents people from using their bank account, debit or credit cards to buy bitcoin is more serious than this news.

Yeah right..
And they hate the US so much they keep their citizenship so they can still be liable for taxes in the US. :)))
It makes perfect logic!


Please do tell more abut this Bitcoin ban that is happening in the US, it must be so serious and so dangerous that it almost prevented the US from completely dominating every aspect of Bitcoin's economy from ATMs, Nodes, LN changes, companies buying bitcoin, investment funds, hashrate, ...everything! Are you FUDing or what's the purpose of this for making stuff up?
Deal with it, there's only one country that counts, and that is the US, and it's going to be like this for a long long time!


So when you can't make more stuff up to express god knows what point you want you resort to this kind of shit?

Not in the bombardments alone, but the whole regime-changing conflict and war.
There are various stats by different organizations in this document (https://www.psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf). Here are some parts where it's mentioned that 1 million people have died as casualties of war.


* All quotes have been copied from the source linked to above (https://www.psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf).

@Pmalek there could have been 10 million casualties, but for the average US or UK politician this is no tragedy, because human life is not worth the same in the US or Iraq, it is at least clear to everyone. The insensitivity of people like Madeleine Albright, who said that as many as 500 000 Iraqi children who died as a result of the imposed sanctions were a reasonable price to pay for their goal. A person or government that directly or indirectly kills even one innocent child to achieve their goal is a monster, and what about people who are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of children to achieve their interests.

I severely doubt that they would consider using any public network for value transfers. Beyond the fact that they prefer their trade activity not to be under control by third parties, they might also want their transactions to stay anonymous. It will definitely not be a currency or financial infrastructure as independent as and hence will still be prone to attacks from outsiders. It's going to be exciting to see what they are coming up with (if we ever find out).

Authoritarian countries are in a bind because by ignoring bitcoin, they risk falling behind technologically and impoverishing their citizens. On the other hand, it's likely these countries will be accumulating bitcoin at some point, since it will likely become a national security issue. As time passes these issues will become clearer.

Let the emperors decide what's better for their human beings. Don't dabble with their “business”.  ::)

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

The block chain technology isn't known for improving the world technological-wise. It's known for allowing the people to choose freely what they want which is definitely the last thing in Russia's and China's checklist.

who expects something good from russia and china? I'm saying something good in terms of democracy, freedom that are basic things for bitcoin to survive in this place. The Russian and Chinese political system is a system where they will always see bitcoin as the enemy, if they create something together they can be sure it won't be something to give freedom and democracy to their people, it's more like: " let's create something to have more control of everything "

I don't understand really what you are deriving at, because i don't really understand your objectives and the areas of concentration towards the thread above, please don't see it as an attack, i just said it because i want to know your concept,the response you portray doesn't match with what i read above as i stipulated before.

No, they don't want bitcoin, they want digital fiat, which is garbage.

What politicians fear? Losing control. What bitcoiners want? to kick out those politicians from manipulating their money. There cannot be a compromise, its either free (as in freedom) or its not.

This struggle is only beginning, but victory is in our side, we will free ourselves from them, with or without their cooperation.

To me those old fools are trying to return the genie into the bottle. It is too late, they cannot undo bitcoin, and they cannot have their world without bitcoin again.

Fear it all you want, and have all central banks of the world spread FUD, this means we are succeeding, and they are afraid, because they have become obsolete.

El Salvador won't be the last, and they are fearing this the most. The future is here, and they are the past. If the USD collapses from its continued mis-management, it will just accelerate the inevitable, people will want bitcoin, no matter what those in power do, even in China, or those 15 oppressive countries that dared forbid bitcoin. Let them see their neighbors prosper while they sink in poverty, see how long they keep their anti bitcoin attitude.

Time is in our side, there is no turning back.

Not just in the Balkans, but in many parts of the world, people have this tendency to vote for jackasses or part-jackasses who become compete jackasses as their presidency keeps going. Even though it's the people that put them in power, many don't see the bigger picture, they get tricked trusting liars, and of course election manipulation will always be a thing.

You seem awfully optimistic regarding the outcome. Nothing wrong with that. However, I don't see the governments of the world giving up that easily if they start getting rolled over with Bitcoin and crypto.

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be  asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

If both countries agree that the USA and the SWIFT system is the common enemy they want to fight against, it's easier for them to come to an understanding and establish some level of trust to benefit both sides. Remember the saying that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't think it's a question of convincing them to use Bitcoin. It's probably not an option they see fit even if it was around for 50 years.

It’s not an option they see fit? Any competent thinker would know that Bitcoin is the best choice to do the job for what they want to do. It’s obviously, and clearly the ONLY choice they currently have. Although, it’s good for them to learn the hard way. They will conclude that Satoshi’s white paper is ground-breaking. 8)

Exactly! Their so-called plan is doomed to fail.

For as long as it takes to replace the current set of people who have prominent positions in those countries and even if that happens, there's still "a big if ^{[especially for Russia]}"!

Normally, that'd work but we're dealing with two countries that both either want full control or the better end of the deal.

Just like what best buddies have, a secret handshake. Honestly whatever they develop in this bilateral agreement of theirs wouldn't really matter to the rest of the world. They just isolate themselves to the rest of the world without any clear advantage over other countries at all. This will be short-lived at best, and might even be a cause of conflict between the two countries if it proved to be unsuccessful in the end.

Let's see how the two communist bros handle this between themselves.

This is just the truth and it happens everywhere. It’s just like what happened during the last two elections in my country. The people end there are voting in the wrong person, after that they all ended up regretting it. These politicians will come out and keep on pretending like they are going to be good when they are voted in, and some foolish people will believe dear sweet words I’m fake promises that they make during the time of elections. But, after that when they are finally sword in into power, they would start to do as it pleases them.

The current leaders in power in my country even rigged the last election that was supposed to put them out in power, and nobody is saying anything about that. At first the people who supported them were being warned that these people are bad, but some foolish people still voted for them. It’s really high time that people start to wise up.

It is a bilateral relationship that started decades ago. Also keep in mind that the two countries are neighbors sharing a border. Bitcoin is definitely not the ONLY choice or even the best choice at this point (mainly due to high volatility) but I am certain that at least bitcoin was considered and I am fairly certain that it is one of the choices and it is being used today. One reason I have is that an emerging super power called Iran has strong relations with both nations with a huge trade volume between them and Iran has been using bitcoin under the radar for at least 3 years now.
Of course this is partly speculation but based on strong facts.

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P.S. The transition from dollar (de-dollarisation) is happening. In 2015 90% of trades between China and Russia was done using USD while in 2020 it was only 40%. Russia is also significantly reducing their USD reserves.

I've read that someone said satoshi came from the future and it's all proven lol. satoshi went a step further than xi and putin in creating a currency that was immune to third parties. xi and putin are actually really in awe of bitcoin it's just that they're embarrassed to show it lol.

If this decision is really agreed, it will lead to BTC, which was created from the start to be free from the centralization of any party.  This new medium of exchange answers the challenge for those who are constrained by existing regulations and even get sanctions based on the interests of a group.  The US is very powerful over its USD while other countries use it as a medium of exchange between countries.  BTC has made it easy for the solution to their problem, if there was another way it would take more time.

The US uses economic sanctions in dealing with nations and bringing them to a table of agreement with their own (US) terms and the world reserve currency been US dollars and this is giving Russia and China a big headache and it appears the only way to bypass their economic discipline is using bitcoin in direct trade then settle to their local currency but will both nations just adopt bitcoin yet? Let's wait as things unfold.

Yeah the china statement, it’s good man, I know that they have screwed themselves in the process of making the bitcoin ban and then also tried to show the world that they are doing something off the track but it all got boomeranged. But it’s sad thing that Russia is also doing stuff like that now. They have more power to run the nationwide infra for the crypto currencies yet they are going into stuff like private sanctions and censorship of transaction. If they go hand in hand with china then it will put them into list of funny countries as china did it in the first place. Such bad move from Russia.

Putin and Xi are doing all they can so that soon the USA Dollar can be out of the picture in international commerce most especially in between Russia and China...and time will tell that these two strong leaders will be successful in this regard so they can bypass the need for anything related to a common enemy: USA. Once this can happen, the same infrastructure can also be attracting other countries to be a part of the new financial system away from the influence of the USA...and again time will tell that this can affect the USA's economic standing a lot and one of the many causes for USA to experience hyper-inflation. Now, having said that, we could not expect that China and Russia will be considering Bitcoin as the medium of exchange between them all because Bitcoin can never be controlled by anyone. And control is the primary drive of anything these two countries are doing whether domestically or internationally.

There is a reality that no one can cover, and that is that all governments want Btc, and more those that are of a socialist-communist nature, who are those who say they do not want wealth but that only their clothing represents a great fortune, and everything that represents money they want to have it and they get it, before the world they are one thing, but the reality is another, if you look for Putin, Xi, and anyone else, they will say no, that they are not looking for wealth, but it is obvious that these people has BTC and they want more btc, they would be fools to say no to money.

What happens is that before the world they show a mask or mask, but things are like that, and not only those of the socialist-communist current, those of the right as well.

I'm not sure if we are talking about a bitcoin-like here as China themselves ban bitcoin in their country, so they probably don't want something that is decentralized. And I read an article that crypto regulation is still unsure in Russia, so it should not be relative to bitcoin or crypto.

 Russia to Decide Between Full Ban and Legalization of Crypto Investments, Trade (https://news.bitcoin.com/russia-to-decide-between-full-ban-and-legalization-of-crypto-investments-trade/)

Hmm, this seems like a case of wishful thinking and misinformation. Putin and Xi in no way want a currency that is outside of their control, because it allows any of their subordinates to escape their grasp with much lower consequences when they cannot control a persons individual finances. What these two really want is to disconnect from using the US dollar as a reserve currency because it gives America great leverage over them in economic sanctions. However realistically the economy of Russia has very little to offer China outside of national resources and the ability to potentially sell them land in future (highly unlikely). China is always looking to get an advantage and will happily take Russia's resources at below market rates, the majority of the money of course will end up in the hands of Oligarchs instead of the state treasury.

Governments who are despots and oligarchs want to control every aspect of their regions. Currency and transactions is a way for them to maintain dominance. If they prohibit the use of any currency other than the ones they print themselves, the population must accept whatever they order. Bitcoin is freedom. No closed government will have a good relationship with something that provides freedom.

Do you even understand how Bitcoin as a protocol works? I doubt you do, given that you believe it is misinformation. Plus you say it’s “wishful thinking”? Isn’t it true that Bitcoin is here now, and ready to be used for censorship-resistance, and safe/secure against third part attacks?

It is because mostly old people are the ones opposing it, well and totalitarian regimes, and they have trying to mimic the Chinese, with absolute failure.

So now it is "State backed crypto", ie. printing without actual printers! Using euphemisms like CBDC or such to not make it look as ugly as they truly are.

However, the system is nearing a collapse (again), another world crisis is looming with the Americans printing USD like there is no tomorrow. Well, no matter how mighty your economy is, sooner or later the result shows, which is why they now have the highest inflation since 4 decades or so, and can only grow faster and faster. Trump and now Biden are simply doing the same thing Maduro and Mugabe did, and the results can only be the same, that is how the economy works, it doesn't care who you are or what are your intentions, certain actions produce certain results (and usually the best action is do nothing, but politicians can't help it, give them power and they will abuse it sooner or later).

Money emission ("printing") produces inflation, doesn't matter what your excuse is. The USD can actually collapse and fall in the same hyperinflation spiral seen in so many cases of history, and people will not have enough time to flee to a safe asset, such as bitcoin. Induced inflation from overbudgeting is the most tyrannical of taxes, and you have no say about it, unless you get rid of that thing that is losing value before is too late. And guess what? That makes it worse, but you can't command the market, that is what those totalitarian leaders always fail to realize.

Almost a century ago, the US crashed its economy, from being blinded by keynesianism etc. And that "pillar of freedom", banned ownership of gold and seized it from everyone until the 70ties. Don't forget that these guys can do things like that because those powers exist. Bitcoin is not controlled by your government, and never will. Regulation can be circumvented, and it will always be, because it was designed to resist it. So the less regulation, the better. In my opinion, the only realistic tax you could impose to bitcoin is VAT, simply because the State can go do physical audits to the business selling/importing goods.

Sanctions are inevitable in this case. Russia and China can't expect they are going to keep their deals in secret while still maintaining the harmony with the rest of the world, especially with the occident. USA won't be fool to let their main adversaries continue growing protected by a bilateral p2p agreement. Understanding the analogy, bitcoin itself isn't the problem for people like Putin and Xi Jinping. For them, the problem is that bitcoin is open and free for everyone to use, doesn't matter who you are, while in fact they would like only themselves and their allies should have access to it.

Then they should know how a powerful tool Bitcoin can be against censorship-resistance if everyone has access to it, but does China truly understand? Because if they did, I believe they would never throw their advantage in the industry by banning POW mining, and trading.

Yes, I might as well realize that, China is pretty tense about bitcoin, but they realize (who are they about the internet or technology, all in vain).
Bitcoin has no ownership Bitcoin is owned by the internet and technology, what they are suppressing is none other than the internet, if they completely eliminate or suppress Bitcoin, destroy the internet, only one way, others can't.

The saying goes: greatness can be defeated by ingenuity, great is not necessarily clever, clever is definitely great, (Satoshi beat the greatest men).

This is a very misterious and shady subject. It's interesting, however, that China has banned bitcoin mining only now, when more than 90% of the coins are already mined.

Maybe it was just a smart move to concentrate their national energy consumption in another sectors. But I believe soon they will change regulations to allow proof of work currencies mining and trading again, as it was already cogitated some months ago by chinese authorities.

Sometimes they seem acting foolish, but I then I realize I might be the foolish one by underestimating them.

They wont really be making out decisions on having no intent behind which we dont know on what they are planning thats why its better not to stress out yourself on what their plan behind because we could make out some presumptions but we dont know if those are really out of the concept or overall intent that they do have in mind. Country leaders does know on what they are doing even though their decisions had been made totally opposes
on what we had anticipated but well theres nothing we can do about it but to deal with it.

I believe everyone must have heard/read the announcement that Russia is interested in allowing Bitcoin mining, and Bitcoin protocol usage itself?

This is the narrative behind it, https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/26/investing/swift-russia-ukraine/index.html

If Russia invades Ukraine, the E.U. and the U.S. will sanction them and ban them from using SWIFT, therefore isolating their banking system. If only there was an open, permissionless protocol that can be used as a fall back for their banking system. 8)

They don't prohibit, ban Bitcoin. It does not help them in any aspect. They can not react like a weird nation in globalization. We are moving farther to globalized Bitcoin adoption so Russia or any nation will have to follow the global trend.

Not only Russia but I also believe many nations should feel happy if their national budget increase a lot because they own Bitcoin. I think it is reasonable if any nation announce that they have national allocation for Bitcoin to reserve capital better for fight against inflation. It sucks when governments themselves have to find other alternatives which are better than their fiats. Do you think Russia, USA., China don't own any Bitcoin for their countries?

Today I saw on TV news with reference to the words of Russian President Putin that Russia is not afraid of being cut off from the SWIFT international banking system, since there is a good currency, the yuan. It is possible that Putin even has in mind the digitized yuan, which China promises to officially launch by the opening of the Winter Olympic Games in Beijing, that is, on February 04. I think that this is a significant exaggeration of his capabilities on the part of Putin, and he is still afraid of being cut off from SWIFT, but they deliberately deny the negative consequences of current and future international sanctions. But surely in Russia they will not turn to bitcoin or any other decentralized currency in order to circumvent international sanctions. The Chinese digitized yuan is more suitable for this. But for certain operations, the Russian government may well use bitcoin.

I believe when nation-states start using Bitcoin as an alternative to SWIFT, it will be a chess game. When Russia mines Bitcoin, the U.S. needs to mine it too, as a deflection, and to make sure Russia’s share of the hashrate doesn’t become very large. China too WILL start mining.

From a game-theory standpoint, each player has to make a move that is beneficial to itself while counteracting the moves of an opponent.

All the main reasons that this government has used as a way to ban Bitcoin in their countries doesn’t really make sense to me. Okay, they say that Bitcoin is being used for illicit activities, but the last time I checked, Bitcoin is the least currency that all these people who engage in illicit activities would like to consider. Unless maybe other cryptocurrencies, because illicit activities has been moving to other crypto currencies that can have privacy more than Bitcoin.

But as for Bitcoin, it cannot be their choice because they can be caught while making use of Bitcoin. Then talking about terrorism, I have not heard of any news of Bitcoin being used to fund terrorism yet, which I also think is just like being used for illicit activity, and would unlikely be considered by any of these.

Then another one is the fact that Bitcoin mining consumes a lot of energy, the last time I also checked, Bitcoin is the least thing that consumes energy when compared to other industries like health, building and the rest of them. So, why then do they ban bitcoin, or do they feel it is giving too much freedom to people? Which I know for sure that china doesn’t like giving too much of freedom to their citizens.

I think bitcoin is a good alternative for trade relations between the two countries, but the volatility is too high, and we also see what a huge impact negative news has on bitcoin. Most likely, such countries need something stable, like stablecoins, but as a crypto enthusiast I would like it to be bitcoin.

I don't think such sanction ever happens because it would harm US more than it harms Russia. There are already plans among the Easter block to abandon US dollar as it is, if US pushes them in that direction they would lose a massive volume from Russia, China and a bunch of other allied countries and that can easily tank US dollar sooner than previously expected.

Interestingly enough bitcoin adoption is growing among these governments. A couple of years ago Iran adopted bitcoin for its import exports and also made it official recently. Others are following in those footsteps.

That's what US is doing right now, they're sleeping on this countries. I mean they're military has always been the target of Russian, Chinese, and North Korean hackers for years now and they haven't done anything so far with all this attacks to possibly protect themselves, they're still banking on the fact that they still have the power to intimidate people into submission and via using their foreign policy to manipulate countries to fight proxy wars against their rivals. I think this partnership of China and Russia will be a bad thing for it's neighbors because both have been eyeing couuntries near their borders for years now and an economic partnership will somewhat seal the deal.

russia is a country of a modern dictatorship, they in an ideology that will hardly accept bitcoin even if they were in the worst of the worst situations, even if they were starving the russian government would continue with their ideology until one day the opposition won and took them out power



as i've been saying russia will not use bitcoin they may even prefer to use china currency or china support than to use bitcoin

I didn't think so either, and I haven't been following this closely enough but it does seem apparent that US is ready to lay down the "mother of all sanctions" today -- and both parties seem to be on the same page here. Been seeing language being used of "Russian sons in body bags" even, which I wouldn't have expected under the current regime.

I always say necessity if the mother of invention. Iranians quickly became power users of Bitcoin once they had to learn to live under banking sanctions. I wouldn't be surprised if the same were to happen to this "Eastern bloc".

It currently won’t, but if a hot war happens to start between Russia/China, and the U.S./Europe? Because if Russia invades Ukraine, it might prompt China to make their move on Taiwan. Japan will ally with the U.S., North Korea with China, just a shower thought for the sake of discussion.


After El Salvador’s mining through volcano power, Russia/Iran mining through Nuclear power. 8)

Russia will not attack Ukraine unless there are provocations. Ukraine has a very difficult situation, because one part of the population wants to join Russia, the other to Poland. It is a tool in the political games of the USA, Europe and Russia. The Russian people have not been afraid of sanctions for a long time, and if something is taken away from the Russian oligarchs abroad, then it will not be worse in Russia.

That’s another debate altogether. War or without war, it’s also another debate if Russia will accept/regulate Bitcoin mining, or mine Bitcoin themselves as a preperation for U.S. sanctions, and to use Bitcoin as a protocol/alternative for SWIFT/a settlement layer. The technology works, it’s robust, and it has been chugging along without down time.

Bump.


If only there was a permissionless, decentralized ledger with its own currency that can be used both as Store Of Value and Medium Of Exchange, and the protocol can also be used as a financial network for international settlements that can go around and elude sanctions.

 ::)

How long? How long must Bitcoin run and prove itself before they accept it, and use it?

I'm a bit surprised it has taken them this long to plan it out ^{[AFAIK, they first started having discussions back in 2019]} and I also noticed that despite being a joint effort, the highlighted part seems to be in favor of Iran.

Until 2140 or as soon as it becomes more stable :P

In Russia, smart people understand that the price of bitcoin is highly manipulated, so bitcoin will not be used for serious international payments. Perhaps they will allow small commercial transactions with various cryptocurrencies, but the main idea is to make an analogue of the dollar for the BRICS countries.

Perhaps not, but that's also the question. It won't matter if the price is manipulated, because technically and politically, if it gives its participants the advantage of breaking down, and weakening political strongholds implemented by the West, it probably could be a more feasible solution to their problem. I believe they have deep knowledge of Bitcoin, and that it could be useful for what they want to do, but they will never admit it.

Does this have anything in common with the news of Iran and Russia trying to scheme together a gold backed shitcoin?

Source:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5435959.0

Putin obviously wants to be in control of their new crypto. As does Xi, I imagine. And there is no chance in hell they would ever be in control of Bitcoin, so there is no point in Bitcoin for them nor any other cryptocurrency which is out of their control.

Obviously this is a case of bad politicians not understanding the prerequisites of decentralized money. There is no point to using Blockchain to gain independency and freedom from third parties when there is a centralized source of control.

Right they wouldn't use bitcoin for these purposes and by the term independent financial infrastructure they mean ending up US dollar power but it would be under their control so people will still be using the same centralised currency payment under their control which sums up it's nothing like bitcoin.When it comes to China the word freedom is automatically vanished and they are setting it up  for their own benefits not the residents.

Xi and Putin turning blind eye when it's clear into their eyes what's in front of them and the solution that they're looking for.

But I guess, they don't like the name of it so they're going to make it and put their names on it as integrated countries that has partnered to build this project which is all about CBDC.

Well, maybe it's obvious that these two countries have been controversial and reported to imply ban on bitcoin for the past years.

But they don't want the decentralization too, so something like digital yuan or E- Ruble or something common between them for trading activities in the future.

The concept of CBDC isn't new but the main problem is they are backed by their own fiat so its completely useless if their fiat doesn't have any market value so they may build something backed by real gold oe simply go with bitcoin. ;D

It's the same news, read the post when I bumped this topic, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5377182.msg61609872#msg61609872


Because Russia and China are going against the West, they actually do need decentralization and censorship-resistance, but they don't know it yet. They probably just choose to ignore Bitcoin because "reasons".


It will merely be another permissioned ledger controlled by a centralized entity, or a federation of centralized entities. Nothing ground-breaking/nothing new, making Bitcoin more valuable from a practical standpoint.

Innovations in the financial world will not start with Russia. Cryptocurrencies will be a transitional stage for the implementation of SBDC in global and local finance. As soon as cryptocurrencies are no longer needed, it will be banned. And what remains will not look like modern cryptocurrencies, but will resemble a centralized blockchain, where each address will be verified.

Yeah, that's certainly where bitcoin is going as we all knew about it and even if they will come up with another centralized ledger that only two of them uses, that values nothing to the entire world.

They should just give it up and embrace the reality that they can no longer ignore the true potential of bitcoin has. It will be beneficial for them to enter such markets that has the global impact and not only limited to two of them.

But what do you mean by that? The people in power don't need cryptocurrencies, it's actually a "pest" for them, a "Rat Poison Squared". They have no need for a permissionless, decentralized cryptocurrency because it would take away some of their control over plebs like us, and give plebs like us the ability to go around their laws.

I believe Russia should start thinking that they're like plebs like us. They buy could Bitcoin, and could weaken the West's  political strongholds. Because of the price caps imposed by the West, Russia could peg oil to Bitcoin and increase or decrease the peg depending on demand.

China and Russia may need their own currency, independent of the US Federal Reserve, for cross-border settlements. 

However, it will not be Bitcoin or any other decentralized cryptocurrency.  Most likely we are talking about the Chinese digital yuan (i.e. CBDC). 

Russia, for its part, cannot offer its digital currency as a currency for international payments.  This is due to the fact that the economic power of Russia is insignificant and there are no necessary technologies for the successful implementation of such a project. 

As for China, it is very interested in the expansion of the digital yuan.