Xi, Putin wants Bitcoin without wanting Bitcoin

[Pmalek]

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be  asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

If both countries agree that the USA and the SWIFT system is the common enemy they want to fight against, it's easier for them to come to an understanding and establish some level of trust to benefit both sides. Remember the saying that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't think it's a question of convincing them to use Bitcoin. It's probably not an option they see fit even if it was around for 50 years.

[Wind_FURY]

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be  asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

If both countries agree that the USA and the SWIFT system is the common enemy they want to fight against, it's easier for them to come to an understanding and establish some level of trust to benefit both sides. Remember the saying that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't think it's a question of convincing them to use Bitcoin. It's probably not an option they see fit even if it was around for 50 years.

It’s not an option they see fit? Any competent thinker would know that Bitcoin is the best choice to do the job for what they want to do. It’s obviously, and clearly the ONLY choice they currently have. Although, it’s good for them to learn the hard way. They will conclude that Satoshi’s white paper is ground-breaking.

[SFR10]

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability.

Exactly! Their so-called plan is doomed to fail.

The question must always be  asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

For as long as it takes to replace the current set of people who have prominent positions in those countries and even if that happens, there's still "a big if ^{[especially for Russia]}"!

establish some level of trust to benefit both sides.

Normally, that'd work but we're dealing with two countries that both either want full control or the better end of the deal.

[dothebeats]

Just like what best buddies have, a secret handshake. Honestly whatever they develop in this bilateral agreement of theirs wouldn't really matter to the rest of the world. They just isolate themselves to the rest of the world without any clear advantage over other countries at all. This will be short-lived at best, and might even be a cause of conflict between the two countries if it proved to be unsuccessful in the end.

Let's see how the two communist bros handle this between themselves.

[savetheFORUM]

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

Not just in the Balkans, but in many parts of the world, people have this tendency to vote for jackasses or part-jackasses who become compete jackasses as their presidency keeps going. Even though it's the people that put them in power, many don't see the bigger picture, they get tricked trusting liars, and of course election manipulation will always be a thing.

This is just the truth and it happens everywhere. It’s just like what happened during the last two elections in my country. The people end there are voting in the wrong person, after that they all ended up regretting it. These politicians will come out and keep on pretending like they are going to be good when they are voted in, and some foolish people will believe dear sweet words I’m fake promises that they make during the time of elections. But, after that when they are finally sword in into power, they would start to do as it pleases them.

The current leaders in power in my country even rigged the last election that was supposed to put them out in power, and nobody is saying anything about that. At first the people who supported them were being warned that these people are bad, but some foolish people still voted for them. It’s really high time that people start to wise up.

[pooya87]

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be  asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

If both countries agree that the USA and the SWIFT system is the common enemy they want to fight against, it's easier for them to come to an understanding and establish some level of trust to benefit both sides. Remember the saying that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't think it's a question of convincing them to use Bitcoin. It's probably not an option they see fit even if it was around for 50 years.

It’s not an option they see fit? Any competent thinker would know that Bitcoin is the best choice to do the job for what they want to do. It’s obviously, and clearly the ONLY choice they currently have. Although, it’s good for them to learn the hard way. They will conclude that Satoshi’s white paper is ground-breaking.

It is a bilateral relationship that started decades ago. Also keep in mind that the two countries are neighbors sharing a border. Bitcoin is definitely not the ONLY choice or even the best choice at this point (mainly due to high volatility) but I am certain that at least bitcoin was considered and I am fairly certain that it is one of the choices and it is being used today. One reason I have is that an emerging super power called Iran has strong relations with both nations with a huge trade volume between them and Iran has been using bitcoin under the radar for at least 3 years now.
Of course this is partly speculation but based on strong facts.

P.S. The transition from dollar (de-dollarisation) is happening. In 2015 90% of trades between China and Russia was done using USD while in 2020 it was only 40%. Russia is also significantly reducing their USD reserves.

[Sirait]

I've read that someone said satoshi came from the future and it's all proven lol. satoshi went a step further than xi and putin in creating a currency that was immune to third parties. xi and putin are actually really in awe of bitcoin it's just that they're embarrassed to show it lol.

[oHnK]

It is a bilateral relationship that started decades ago. Also keep in mind that the two countries are neighbors sharing a border. Bitcoin is definitely not the ONLY choice or even the best choice at this point (mainly due to high volatility) but I am certain that at least bitcoin was considered and I am fairly certain that it is one of the choices and it is being used today. One reason I have is that an emerging super power called Iran has strong relations with both nations with a huge trade volume between them and Iran has been using bitcoin under the radar for at least 3 years now.
Of course this is partly speculation but based on strong facts.

P.S. The transition from dollar (de-dollarisation) is happening. In 2015 90% of trades between China and Russia was done using USD while in 2020 it was only 40%. Russia is also significantly reducing their USD reserves.

If this decision is really agreed, it will lead to BTC, which was created from the start to be free from the centralization of any party.  This new medium of exchange answers the challenge for those who are constrained by existing regulations and even get sanctions based on the interests of a group.  The US is very powerful over its USD while other countries use it as a medium of exchange between countries.  BTC has made it easy for the solution to their problem, if there was another way it would take more time.

[Lizzylove1]

The US uses economic sanctions in dealing with nations and bringing them to a table of agreement with their own (US) terms and the world reserve currency been US dollars and this is giving Russia and China a big headache and it appears the only way to bypass their economic discipline is using bitcoin in direct trade then settle to their local currency but will both nations just adopt bitcoin yet? Let's wait as things unfold.

[so98nn]

Yeah the china statement, it’s good man, I know that they have screwed themselves in the process of making the bitcoin ban and then also tried to show the world that they are doing something off the track but it all got boomeranged. But it’s sad thing that Russia is also doing stuff like that now. They have more power to run the nationwide infra for the crypto currencies yet they are going into stuff like private sanctions and censorship of transaction. If they go hand in hand with china then it will put them into list of funny countries as china did it in the first place. Such bad move from Russia.

[DapanasFruit]

Putin and Xi are doing all they can so that soon the USA Dollar can be out of the picture in international commerce most especially in between Russia and China...and time will tell that these two strong leaders will be successful in this regard so they can bypass the need for anything related to a common enemy: USA. Once this can happen, the same infrastructure can also be attracting other countries to be a part of the new financial system away from the influence of the USA...and again time will tell that this can affect the USA's economic standing a lot and one of the many causes for USA to experience hyper-inflation. Now, having said that, we could not expect that China and Russia will be considering Bitcoin as the medium of exchange between them all because Bitcoin can never be controlled by anyone. And control is the primary drive of anything these two countries are doing whether domestically or internationally.

[LUCKMCFLY]

There is a reality that no one can cover, and that is that all governments want Btc, and more those that are of a socialist-communist nature, who are those who say they do not want wealth but that only their clothing represents a great fortune, and everything that represents money they want to have it and they get it, before the world they are one thing, but the reality is another, if you look for Putin, Xi, and anyone else, they will say no, that they are not looking for wealth, but it is obvious that these people has BTC and they want more btc, they would be fools to say no to money.

What happens is that before the world they show a mask or mask, but things are like that, and not only those of the socialist-communist current, those of the right as well.

[Ziskinberg]

I'm not sure if we are talking about a bitcoin-like here as China themselves ban bitcoin in their country, so they probably don't want something that is decentralized. And I read an article that crypto regulation is still unsure in Russia, so it should not be relative to bitcoin or crypto.

Russia to Decide Between Full Ban and Legalization of Crypto Investments, Trade

[Fortify]

BREAKING: Putin and Xi agreed "to set up an independent financial infrastructure to service trade between Russia and China" which will be designed to be "invulnerable" to "pressure from third parties."

BREAKING: Satoshi Nakamoto has already invented what Putin, and Xi’s independent infrastructure to service trade between Russia, and China. Another way of saying, “we don’t want to be censored by sanctions”.

I believe it was also China itself that has proven that Bitcoin is invulnerable to pressure from third parties.

Hmm, this seems like a case of wishful thinking and misinformation. Putin and Xi in no way want a currency that is outside of their control, because it allows any of their subordinates to escape their grasp with much lower consequences when they cannot control a persons individual finances. What these two really want is to disconnect from using the US dollar as a reserve currency because it gives America great leverage over them in economic sanctions. However realistically the economy of Russia has very little to offer China outside of national resources and the ability to potentially sell them land in future (highly unlikely). China is always looking to get an advantage and will happily take Russia's resources at below market rates, the majority of the money of course will end up in the hands of Oligarchs instead of the state treasury.

[JakobFugger]

Governments who are despots and oligarchs want to control every aspect of their regions. Currency and transactions is a way for them to maintain dominance. If they prohibit the use of any currency other than the ones they print themselves, the population must accept whatever they order. Bitcoin is freedom. No closed government will have a good relationship with something that provides freedom.

[Wind_FURY]

BREAKING: Putin and Xi agreed "to set up an independent financial infrastructure to service trade between Russia and China" which will be designed to be "invulnerable" to "pressure from third parties."

BREAKING: Satoshi Nakamoto has already invented what Putin, and Xi’s independent infrastructure to service trade between Russia, and China. Another way of saying, “we don’t want to be censored by sanctions”.

I believe it was also China itself that has proven that Bitcoin is invulnerable to pressure from third parties.

Hmm, this seems like a case of wishful thinking and misinformation. Putin and Xi in no way want a currency that is outside of their control, because it allows any of their subordinates to escape their grasp with much lower consequences when they cannot control a persons individual finances. What these two really want is to disconnect from using the US dollar as a reserve currency because it gives America great leverage over them in economic sanctions. However realistically the economy of Russia has very little to offer China outside of national resources and the ability to potentially sell them land in future (highly unlikely). China is always looking to get an advantage and will happily take Russia's resources at below market rates, the majority of the money of course will end up in the hands of Oligarchs instead of the state treasury.

Do you even understand how Bitcoin as a protocol works? I doubt you do, given that you believe it is misinformation. Plus you say it’s “wishful thinking”? Isn’t it true that Bitcoin is here now, and ready to be used for censorship-resistance, and safe/secure against third part attacks?

[Artemis3]

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

Not just in the Balkans, but in many parts of the world, people have this tendency to vote for jackasses or part-jackasses who become compete jackasses as their presidency keeps going. Even though it's the people that put them in power, many don't see the bigger picture, they get tricked trusting liars, and of course election manipulation will always be a thing.

<Snip>

You seem awfully optimistic regarding the outcome. Nothing wrong with that. However, I don't see the governments of the world giving up that easily if they start getting rolled over with Bitcoin and crypto.

It is because mostly old people are the ones opposing it, well and totalitarian regimes, and they have trying to mimic the Chinese, with absolute failure.

So now it is "State backed crypto", ie. printing without actual printers! Using euphemisms like CBDC or such to not make it look as ugly as they truly are.

However, the system is nearing a collapse (again), another world crisis is looming with the Americans printing USD like there is no tomorrow. Well, no matter how mighty your economy is, sooner or later the result shows, which is why they now have the highest inflation since 4 decades or so, and can only grow faster and faster. Trump and now Biden are simply doing the same thing Maduro and Mugabe did, and the results can only be the same, that is how the economy works, it doesn't care who you are or what are your intentions, certain actions produce certain results (and usually the best action is do nothing, but politicians can't help it, give them power and they will abuse it sooner or later).

Money emission ("printing") produces inflation, doesn't matter what your excuse is. The USD can actually collapse and fall in the same hyperinflation spiral seen in so many cases of history, and people will not have enough time to flee to a safe asset, such as bitcoin. Induced inflation from overbudgeting is the most tyrannical of taxes, and you have no say about it, unless you get rid of that thing that is losing value before is too late. And guess what? That makes it worse, but you can't command the market, that is what those totalitarian leaders always fail to realize.

Almost a century ago, the US crashed its economy, from being blinded by keynesianism etc. And that "pillar of freedom", banned ownership of gold and seized it from everyone until the 70ties. Don't forget that these guys can do things like that because those powers exist. Bitcoin is not controlled by your government, and never will. Regulation can be circumvented, and it will always be, because it was designed to resist it. So the less regulation, the better. In my opinion, the only realistic tax you could impose to bitcoin is VAT, simply because the State can go do physical audits to the business selling/importing goods.

[uneng]

Sanctions are inevitable in this case. Russia and China can't expect they are going to keep their deals in secret while still maintaining the harmony with the rest of the world, especially with the occident. USA won't be fool to let their main adversaries continue growing protected by a bilateral p2p agreement. Understanding the analogy, bitcoin itself isn't the problem for people like Putin and Xi Jinping. For them, the problem is that bitcoin is open and free for everyone to use, doesn't matter who you are, while in fact they would like only themselves and their allies should have access to it.

[Wind_FURY]

Sanctions are inevitable in this case. Russia and China can't expect they are going to keep their deals in secret while still maintaining the harmony with the rest of the world, especially with the occident. USA won't be fool to let their main adversaries continue growing protected by a bilateral p2p agreement. Understanding the analogy, bitcoin itself isn't the problem for people like Putin and Xi Jinping. For them, the problem is that bitcoin is open and free for everyone to use, doesn't matter who you are, while in fact they would like only themselves and their allies should have access to it.

Then they should know how a powerful tool Bitcoin can be against censorship-resistance if everyone has access to it, but does China truly understand? Because if they did, I believe they would never throw their advantage in the industry by banning POW mining, and trading.

[YOSHIE]

I believe it was also China itself that has proven that Bitcoin is invulnerable to pressure from third parties.

Yes, I might as well realize that, China is pretty tense about bitcoin, but they realize (who are they about the internet or technology, all in vain).
Bitcoin has no ownership Bitcoin is owned by the internet and technology, what they are suppressing is none other than the internet, if they completely eliminate or suppress Bitcoin, destroy the internet, only one way, others can't.

The saying goes: greatness can be defeated by ingenuity, great is not necessarily clever, clever is definitely great, (Satoshi beat the greatest men).