Xi, Putin wants Bitcoin without wanting Bitcoin

[stompix]

Oh, what  surprise:
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/12/16/russian-central-bank-seeks-ban-on-crypto-investment-report/

Bank of Russia’s current position is a “complete rejection” of all cryptocurrencies, the report says, citing a source close to the bank.

The central bank issued new rules for the country’s mutual funds in a directive published on Monday.

https://cbr.ru/press/event/?id=12526

At the same time, a ban is established on the investment of funds of mutual funds, including those intended exclusively for qualified investors, in digital currencies and financial instruments, the cost of which depends on the rates of digital currencies

What a coincidence...
The miraculous "east" that stands against the evil US is also declaring bitcoin an enemy.
Is anyone actually surprised by this?

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[pooya87]

By "east" you mean China and Russia as the other former enemies of the US in the east are welcoming them with open arms. The first US warships have been seen docking in Vietnamese ports, South Korea and Japan are US allies, who else in the "east" is shifting away from the US? India, Australia? Thailand? Every single country there is more concerned with China than with the US.

US has indeed colonized many countries around the world like Japan, South Korea, Vietnam,... but there are a lot of other countries in the world.
The Shanghai Cooperation Organization for example is a good indication of how the transition is taking place. SCO is the largest alliance in the world considering geography, population and economy. If you think they are all "enemies of US" then maybe you are also admitting that something is seriously wrong with the US!

Ending the US dollar and replacing it with what, the yuan? Just lol.

It doesn't necessarily have to be replaced. They just abandon US dollar and use other means of payment.

I simply can't understand your enthusiasm here when the only true allies China has are ones that just like it have a grudge against everything that means freedom from bitcoin to everything!

Funny I never mentioned China and I don't know where you got enthusiasm from. It is just an observation based on things that have been happening. I hate China as much as the next fellow but my personal feelings is not changing the reality of how China has been growing economically and otherwise.

Russia, Iran, and China, wonder why every citizen there wants to run away to the corrupt and pitiful US. 

Well you gotta ask them and make sure to ask whether their lives have improved or not after the migration
You should also ask those of them who reverse migrate back to their countries about why they did it after reaching the "land of the free" LOL

Oh yeah, so good for the Chinese poeple that they are sheltered from the threats illusion of democracy.

FTFY

Oh, what  surprise:

More like dejavu since the media has been reporting bitcoin ban from all kinds of countries including Russia for years.

[Pmalek]

Yeah, the US is evil...the US is evil.

There is a very big difference between a country's leadership and its people, culture, or traditions. The US and its people are not evil. But the US, its people, and its army was mislead to wage a war based on a lie of nuclear weapons aimed at destroying the United States. A war that took at least 7.000 lives of American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Bush administration was made up of evil and power-hungry individuals that put the country at shame in my opinion. Even more embarrassment was caused by the presidency of the orange Dick... I mean Donald.

I despise my own country's government, but not my country and its people. And I have similar feelings for the past ones in America. This is now an off-topic discussion, so I am going to stop right here.

[stompix]

A war that took at least ....

I remember I asked you for a source about the 1 million poeple that died in US aerial bombardments, not about anything else, so you either cite that or not, don't try to weasel your way out of it after making such ridiculous claims. 

This is now an off-topic discussion, so I am going to stop right here.

That didn't stop you from throwing in your first message a ton of whataboutism bringing in the US in a discussion that was about China and Russia.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization for example is a good indication of how the transition is taking place. SCO is the largest alliance in the world considering geography, population and economy.

Yeah, an alliance that includes China and India, there is sooo much cooperation between those I can't hold my emotions and my tears thinking of the great things that will come from it. When I see that it has also have Pakistan in it alongside India I'm just perplexed it even works...oh wait, it doesn't, they don't even have a  trade agreement. It's an organization just as useless as BRICS, something they do to show they plan on thinking on a plan of doing something.

Well you gotta ask them and make sure to ask whether their lives have improved or not after the migration You should also ask those of them who reverse migrate back to their countries about why they did it after reaching the "land of the free" LOL

So you're telling me to search for the needle in 100 trucks of hay?
5000 poeple denounced their US citizenship compared to 22 million applications alone a year. Yeah, everyone is disgusted by the American dream, probably the ones that got their green card refused the most, that would explain a lot of things.

More like dejavu since the media has been reporting bitcoin ban from all kinds of countries including Russia for years.

https://cbr.ru/press/event/?id=12526
This is not "the media" and it's nothing uncertain and doubtful about it.

[Wind_FURY]

Wanting Bitcoin without Bitcoin, an interesting thought although of course it makes no sense. Bitcoin is a decentralized cryptocurrency, and if Russia and China want an independent financial infrastructure, then they will design a centralized financial product that will be 100% under their control, and it can never be anything like Bitcoin.

So isn't China a leader in the CBDC and the digital yuan has already become commonplace in that country? Let the Russians make their own CBDC and then let them trade with each other if they want to - no one is forcing them to use the US dollar or the euro.

It won’t make any sense of you take it too literally. The point is they want censorship-resistance, and a build network-infrastructure that is not vulnerable to attacks from third parties. Are they describing something like Bitcoin? Yes they are. Plus if they truly try to build their “network”, they will fail. Bitcoin is already here, and ready.

[Easteregg69]

A war that took at least ....

I remember I asked you for a source about the 1 million poeple that died in US aerial bombardments, not about anything else, so you either cite that or not, don't try to weasel your way out of it after making such ridiculous claims.  

This is now an off-topic discussion, so I am going to stop right here.

That didn't stop you from throwing in your first message a ton of whataboutism bringing in the US in a discussion that was about China and Russia.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization for example is a good indication of how the transition is taking place. SCO is the largest alliance in the world considering geography, population and economy.

Yeah, an alliance that includes China and India, there is sooo much cooperation between those I can't hold my emotions and my tears thinking of the great things that will come from it. When I see that it has also have Pakistan in it alongside India I'm just perplexed it even works...oh wait, it doesn't, they don't even have a  trade agreement. It's an organization just as useless as BRICS, something they do to show they plan on thinking on a plan of doing something.

Well you gotta ask them and make sure to ask whether their lives have improved or not after the migration You should also ask those of them who reverse migrate back to their countries about why they did it after reaching the "land of the free" LOL

So you're telling me to search for the needle in 100 trucks of hay?
5000 poeple denounced their US citizenship compared to 22 million applications alone a year. Yeah, everyone is disgusted by the American dream, probably the ones that got their green card refused the most, that would explain a lot of things.

More like dejavu since the media has been reporting bitcoin ban from all kinds of countries including Russia for years.

https://cbr.ru/press/event/?id=12526
This is not "the media" and it's nothing uncertain and doubtful about it.

I bought a VPN for 30000 BTT just to find out Russia and China was out censored now. How do you think I feel about that? It was great fun bombing the yobit chat from Moscow ;-) Troll wise. Global village. See what I am saying is money is good when they are paid for. Expensive money costs more.

[Lucius]

Xi pump in 2019, do you remember it?

I remember how easy it was to convince uneducated masses of people that China is pro-Bitcoin, and that shows how much people actually understand the difference between Bitcoin and blockchain. In that case, I wouldn't blame China for anything - it's the fault of those who had no idea what the news meant.

I don't think any government will ignore Bitcoin if they see it is store of asset and see chance to get rich for national reserve. Soon, after El Salvador, we will se other nations, from small to big loading up Bitcoin into their national reserves. It would be a very big game.

Are you sure these other governments are waiting for the price of Bitcoin to rise even higher to start buying it for their national reserves? So just look at the views of the world's biggest governments on Bitcoin, from China, Russia, India, the UK, or the US - do you see anything positive? Countries that do not have their own national currency and that have no other choice are the most likely candidates to do something similar to El Salvador - the only problem is that they do not have a president or government like that country.

[SFR10]

@Wind_FURY
I remember reading about a somewhat similar story concerning Russia and Iran a couple of years back, so I'm assuming that one didn't succeed and now they're trying to build version 2.0 with China in the picture! Let's assume for a second that they'd be using their own CBDCs ^{[or as you said, "Bitcoin without a Bitcoin"]} to trade with each other, I don't think that'll end with a different result since, at some point, one of them would probably want more control ^{[based on their true nature]} over the other one ^{[I don't think it's going to work in the long run]}.

• However, Russia and Iran are working together to ditch the dollar to weaken the effects of U.S. sanctions.
  
  The two are working to develop a new financial transfer system to replace the U.S.-controlled SWIFT. This system would circumvent third country sanctions, Russian presidential adviser for international affairs Yuri Ushakov told the media.
  
  "In order to protect bilateral trade and economic ties from third country sanctions, measures are taken on the expansion of direct payments, the use of national currencies, the improvement interactions between the Russian financial transfers system and the Iranian Sepam, as an alternative for payments to SWIFT," said Ushakov.

[pooya87]

Yeah, an alliance that includes China and India, there is sooo much cooperation between those I can't hold my emotions and my tears thinking of the great things that will come from it. When I see that it has also have Pakistan in it alongside India I'm just perplexed it even works...

You are starting to sound very American, sorry I mean racist

5000 poeple denounced their US citizenship compared to 22 million applications alone a year.

They don't have to denounce their citizenship to go back! They become dual citizens. Considering majority of them are living on minimum wage in the most expensive and racist country in the whole world it is not really a surprise that many of them want to go back and some can gather enough money for a plane ticket home.

https://cbr.ru/press/event/?id=12526
This is not "the media" and it's nothing uncertain and doubtful about it.

Except that it has nothing to do with "a complete ban on future crypto investments in the country" as the fake article puts it. It is a proposal that mutual funds be invested in assets that are recommended by the proposal and avoid putting it in cryptocurrencies.
I'd say the ban that exists in US that prevents people from using their bank account, debit or credit cards to buy bitcoin is more serious than this news.

[stompix]

They don't have to denounce their citizenship to go back! They become dual citizens. Considering majority of them are living on minimum wage in the most expensive and racist country in the whole world it is not really a surprise that many of them want to go back and some can gather enough money for a plane ticket home.

Yeah right..
And they hate the US so much they keep their citizenship so they can still be liable for taxes in the US. ))
It makes perfect logic!

I'd say the ban that exists in US that prevents people from using their bank account, debit or credit cards to buy bitcoin is more serious than this news.

Please do tell more abut this Bitcoin ban that is happening in the US, it must be so serious and so dangerous that it almost prevented the US from completely dominating every aspect of Bitcoin's economy from ATMs, Nodes, LN changes, companies buying bitcoin, investment funds, hashrate, ...everything! Are you FUDing or what's the purpose of this for making stuff up?
Deal with it, there's only one country that counts, and that is the US, and it's going to be like this for a long long time!

You are starting to sound very American, sorry I mean racist

So when you can't make more stuff up to express god knows what point you want you resort to this kind of shit?

[Pmalek]

I remember I asked you for a source about the 1 million poeple that died in US aerial bombardments, not about anything else,

Not in the bombardments alone, but the whole regime-changing conflict and war.
There are various stats by different organizations in this document. Here are some parts where it's mentioned that 1 million people have died as casualties of war.

This investigation comes to the conclusion that the war has, directly or indirectly, killed around 1 million people in Iraq, 220,000 in Afghanistan and 80,000 in Pakistan, i.e. a total of around 1.3 million.
...
The total number of deaths in the three countries named above could also be in excess of 2 million, whereas a figure below 1 million is extremely unlikely"

Representative Studies Provide an Estimate of Up To 1 Million
Conversely, results from statistical surveys conducted by the Johns Hopkins University, published in 2004 and 2006 in the medical journal The Lancet, as well as by the British polling institute Opinion Research Business (ORB) in 2007 suggest that already by 2008 over one million Iraqis had died as a result of war, occupation and their indirect consequences.

Taking the time period of the Lancet study, the confidence intervals are overlapping over a wide range. While the numbers provided by the PLOS study appear to be too low, those of the Lancet study can be deemed a bit too high. Therefore, the number of roughly one million victims for the time period until the December 2011 U.S. troop withdrawal unfortunately remains realistic.

The ORB study did not have the same quality as the Lancet studies, however, since their results agree well the estimated number of 1,033,000 fatalities seems plausible. The number of casualties may thus have had exceeded one million already by mid - 2007.

* All quotes have been copied from the source linked to above (https://www.psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf).

[Lucius]

@Pmalek there could have been 10 million casualties, but for the average US or UK politician this is no tragedy, because human life is not worth the same in the US or Iraq, it is at least clear to everyone. The insensitivity of people like Madeleine Albright, who said that as many as 500 000 Iraqi children who died as a result of the imposed sanctions were a reasonable price to pay for their goal. A person or government that directly or indirectly kills even one innocent child to achieve their goal is a monster, and what about people who are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of children to achieve their interests.

The scene is painful to anyone concerned about the long-range impact of the first US-Iraq war in 1991. Then US Ambassador to the United Nations Madeleine Albright was asked by 60 Minutes correspondent Leslie Stahl if the sanctions imposed on Iraq after the 1991 war, which according to UN estimates had led to the deaths of upwards of half a million children, were “worth it.”  “I think this is a very hard choice but the price we think, the price was worth it,” was Albright’s now infamous reply. Well, perhaps not to everyone; despite her shocking candour, she was promoted by President Clinton to Secretary of State a few months later.

[Dump3er]

At first, I wasn't sure if the news were legit, but I found articles on Russian news websites about it, so it seems like the talk actually happened. They want an infrastructure that won't be under control of third countries, but there's a big potential difference from Bitcoin: there's nothing there about the financial infrastructure being independent altogether. Bitcoin's not under control of the US, but it's not under control of China or Russia either. I believe this is not desirable for Putin and Xi, as they'd prefer a centralized currency that would be under their mutual control. That being said, it might be very hard to achieve, so they might settle on something like Bitcoin as good enough.

I severely doubt that they would consider using any public network for value transfers. Beyond the fact that they prefer their trade activity not to be under control by third parties, they might also want their transactions to stay anonymous. It will definitely not be a currency or financial infrastructure as independent as and hence will still be prone to attacks from outsiders. It's going to be exciting to see what they are coming up with (if we ever find out).

[pushups44]

Authoritarian countries are in a bind because by ignoring bitcoin, they risk falling behind technologically and impoverishing their citizens. On the other hand, it's likely these countries will be accumulating bitcoin at some point, since it will likely become a national security issue. As time passes these issues will become clearer.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Let the emperors decide what's better for their human beings. Don't dabble with their “business”.  

I despise my own country's government, but not my country and its people.

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

Authoritarian countries are in a bind because by ignoring bitcoin, they risk falling behind technologically and impoverishing their citizens.

The block chain technology isn't known for improving the world technological-wise. It's known for allowing the people to choose freely what they want which is definitely the last thing in Russia's and China's checklist.

[Slow death]

who expects something good from russia and china? I'm saying something good in terms of democracy, freedom that are basic things for bitcoin to survive in this place. The Russian and Chinese political system is a system where they will always see bitcoin as the enemy, if they create something together they can be sure it won't be something to give freedom and democracy to their people, it's more like: " let's create something to have more control of everything "

[GeorgeJohn]

These communists have several layers of rank. It's like the Presidents wants to be better than the people.

I got my 420 joint. I am happy now.

I don't understand really what you are deriving at, because i don't really understand your objectives and the areas of concentration towards the thread above, please don't see it as an attack, i just said it because i want to know your concept,the response you portray doesn't match with what i read above as i stipulated before.

[Artemis3]

No, they don't want bitcoin, they want digital fiat, which is garbage.

What politicians fear? Losing control. What bitcoiners want? to kick out those politicians from manipulating their money. There cannot be a compromise, its either free (as in freedom) or its not.

This struggle is only beginning, but victory is in our side, we will free ourselves from them, with or without their cooperation.

To me those old fools are trying to return the genie into the bottle. It is too late, they cannot undo bitcoin, and they cannot have their world without bitcoin again.

Fear it all you want, and have all central banks of the world spread FUD, this means we are succeeding, and they are afraid, because they have become obsolete.

El Salvador won't be the last, and they are fearing this the most. The future is here, and they are the past. If the USD collapses from its continued mis-management, it will just accelerate the inevitable, people will want bitcoin, no matter what those in power do, even in China, or those 15 oppressive countries that dared forbid bitcoin. Let them see their neighbors prosper while they sink in poverty, see how long they keep their anti bitcoin attitude.

Time is in our side, there is no turning back.

[Pmalek]

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

Not just in the Balkans, but in many parts of the world, people have this tendency to vote for jackasses or part-jackasses who become compete jackasses as their presidency keeps going. Even though it's the people that put them in power, many don't see the bigger picture, they get tricked trusting liars, and of course election manipulation will always be a thing.

<Snip>

You seem awfully optimistic regarding the outcome. Nothing wrong with that. However, I don't see the governments of the world giving up that easily if they start getting rolled over with Bitcoin and crypto.

[Wind_FURY]

@Wind_FURY
I remember reading about a somewhat similar story concerning Russia and Iran a couple of years back, so I'm assuming that one didn't succeed and now they're trying to build version 2.0 with China in the picture! Let's assume for a second that they'd be using their own CBDCs ^{[or as you said, "Bitcoin without a Bitcoin"]} to trade with each other, I don't think that'll end with a different result since, at some point, one of them would probably want more control ^{[based on their true nature]} over the other one ^{[I don't think it's going to work in the long run]}.

• However, Russia and Iran are working together to ditch the dollar to weaken the effects of U.S. sanctions.
  
  The two are working to develop a new financial transfer system to replace the U.S.-controlled SWIFT. This system would circumvent third country sanctions, Russian presidential adviser for international affairs Yuri Ushakov told the media.
  
  "In order to protect bilateral trade and economic ties from third country sanctions, measures are taken on the expansion of direct payments, the use of national currencies, the improvement interactions between the Russian financial transfers system and the Iranian Sepam, as an alternative for payments to SWIFT," said Ushakov.

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be  asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?