Bitcoin Forum

During the time I've been here I read about many scams. Some were really big, some were small; some were about money; some were about trust; some were about cheating signature campaigns and so on. But what all had in common (or -- almost all) was that, once the scammer was exposed, s/he left the premises for good. This happened especially after big scams. If you need examples, look at the cases of pirateat40 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4464504.0) (very well documented by xtraelv), master-P (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1306301.0), El Cabron (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.0%3Ball) or the most recent cases of alia (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1764044), Polar91 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5238497.0) or figmentofmyass (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=136484).

Indeed, some were banned and this was the reason for their disappearance. But not all of them.

One particular case raised my attention, which involved the theft of 4100 BTC, plus other (which seemed to be at that time) lower scams. And my attention was brought by the fact that the scammer did not leave the forum, was not banned and is still active. This is the case of TradeFortress (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=67058).

This is the main story (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=326879.0) (more details here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328053.0)):


Apparently, years later he tried to pay back some of his victims but in the end he abandoned the idea:


However, excepting this scam, TradeFortress was accused of several other users for scamming the with various amounts. As it can be seen, what he did with inputs.io was his masterpiece, but he "exercised" his hand well before that.





More scams or scam attempts can be found here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=151880.msg2702121#msg2702121).

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Why I'm creating this topic? As I wrote above, it's because I was almost shocked to see that the scammer remained active for 8 more years after all these scams. He was last active here last month. According to BPIP, he is (just) the 28th most distrusted user (https://bpip.org/Report?r=leasttrusted) from the entire forum (but I think he should be placed on a higher spot). Also, as it can be seen on LoyceV's website, there are some users (not 1 or 2, but 13!!!) which trust TradeFortress (https://loyce.club/trust/2021-12-18_Sat_05.08h/67058.html) - a fact which I find to be amazing. Another aspect amazing me is that only 23 users distrust him!

What's even worst is that it also happens that he is a VIP member, meaning that he actually paid 50 BTC to obtain this rank (no matter that when he paid BTC had a lower value). And while such members - VIPs or Donators - should be remarkable figures among us, sadly, there are cases when such titles are worn also by scammers...

Coming back to the story, I still can't understand the guts of this guy, to keep being present here all the time, involve in various threads, in various boards (Bitcoin Discussion, Gambling, Securities, Altcoins, Meta, Offtopic etc.) without having (almost) anybody asking him: "do you really have the guts of actually still being here after all you did?".

Moreover, some actually praise his posts:


Very rarely I saw someone which told him something more or less subtle, about what he did and that he does not belong here anymore.

It's like... everybody forgotten his actions... or closed their eyes.

Why is this happening? Opinions...?

Hi, great thread.

I like this kind of posts to learn more about the history of Bitcointalk, but:



I didn't have to look very hard to find this. In fact, I think I read that thread and odolvlobo's response at the time. Anyway, with all the negative feedback, I don't think he will scam anyone again in this forum.

It looks like he successfully appealed his ban (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1185511.0) in 2015.
He also lost the ability to edit his own posts, which theymos restored (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4627073.msg41813617#msg41813617) in 2018 (while at the same time removing selfmod status from all his topics).

That would be off-topic, which isn't allowed. His Trust and username speak volumes and are discussed in several topics. There's no need to mention it in every topic he posts in.

The scams happened before I (or most other users) even joined the forum. I don't trust him, but I also don't feel the need to add more negative tags to the pile.

Scams are not moderated here that is the only reason why he is still active no matter how much money he scammed, I remember he was holding most number of negative trust when the old DT system is in place but nothing stopped him, he just chilling out here and nobody can do anything about it because its just an online forum, people who was scammed can take legal actions against him if they want that's it.

Jesus, I don't know what the hell I was doing in January, but I obviously wasn't paying attention to the Reputation section.  I didn't post in the reference thread that's included in figmentofmyass's negative trust, nor do I remember that scandal.  So I'm just learning that he had multiple alts in the Chipmixer campaign, a feat I find astounding!  Thanks for mentioning those examples, OP.

With respect to TradeFortress, I swear I heard that the account changed hands a while back, because I was wondering the same thing you are, which is how and why would such a notorious scammer even show his face on a forum where he scammed so many people.  Memory is a funny thing, though (especially for me).  I'm not sure what I actually read or even if I interpreted it correctly, but I could almost swear that someone stated that the account was sold or given away after those scams went down.

Maybe someone here can set us straight on that.  If not, it does seem very weird that a member would have enough balls to keep posting here as if nothing ever happened.  I mean seriously, it sounds like TradeFortress should be in a jail cell rather than on bitcointalk.

Any chance you're confusing him with red-trusted VIP JusticeForYou (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=18021)?
For JusticeForYou, theymos wrote this:

For TradeFortress, theymos wrote this:

No, I'm definitely thinking of TradeFortress.  The story of his massive scams is one of the first things I remember reading on the forum, and I think that goes back to the days when I was just lurking occasionally (probably 2014 or so).  And I don't think it was Theymos who said the account changed hands but someone like Bruno--though obviously I can't remember the details exactly, so I could be way off.  But I'm sure it was TradeFortress that was mentioned.

I wonder if he has access to any of those coins. 4100BTC is no joke, if he took even 5% of those supposedly hacked coins for himself then he could be in jail for a significant amount of time.

Back in 2018, he claimed that he did not have access to these funds, and that they were mostly lost in the hack. He further claims that his reimbursement plan is the result of him making some good investments over the years - but it is obvious that he could not earn 4100 BTC.

I doubt he will ever end up in prison if he doesn't by now, because he should be indicted and the authorities should know his identity.

TF is a total sociopath and a natural-born fraudster. He seems to have a specific style in which he conducts his scams.

A "hack", funds lost, (optionally) customers trolled, excuses years later. See Hashie (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4933260).

I expect one of the crappy mixer sites to turn out to be TF's new scam.

Hehe, thanks! Yes, I saw that reply too... that was one of the few ones remembering him what he did... And I hope he will never scam anybody again. At least, now he is notorious and people can avoid him...

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This is incredible. I studied this subject for a while, but I was not aware that (1) he was banned; (2) he was banned for trolling (inside a topic containing doxxing information of theymos or other staff member!!! -- how comes that he was banned just for trolling when he doxxed these people?!) and I think this is the first ban for trolling I ever seen; nor that (3) his ban was lifted (I did not see any reason for lifting his ban in that thread... weird). Now I am even more intrigued. Thanks for sharing this, LoyceV!


Oh well... I understand this but the situation looks a bit ironical O0 I mean to have a criminal inside your thread and not be able to ask why he is there because you would break forum rules.


First sentence is true. However, I would have expected to see more negative feedbacks from DT members in his case... His current Trust score, for stealing at least 4100 BTC is -13. As comparison, figmentofmyass, for cheating CM campaign for 3 years (where he lurked way fewer BTC that TradingFortress), has a Trust score very close to TradingFortress': -12. Yet, the prejudice made by the lattest is way greater that the one made by figmentofmyass...

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My dear Pharmacist, let me tease you a bit :) First you did not know about your (and as well -- our) true home (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5121375.msg58639250#msg58639250) (smile here). Then about figmentofmyass. These, combined with change of lines between you and icopress (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4736673.msg58740070#msg58740070) about forgotten things, that I accidentaly noticed in the trolls-related thread, made me smile as well :) (I hope you get my humor.)


I was not aware of this either... this is new information and, if this happened, then indeed this is a good explanation. Otherwise, as you said, "TradeFortress should be in a jail cell rather than on bitcointalk"...

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Even so, he had access, at least, to the other "smaller" scams. 10 BTC from you, 15 BTC from me, 5 BTC from another one and so on... I'd say that even if he could not access those stolen coins, the other ones he scammed (detailed in OP) represent amounts of more than 1M USD...

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Indeed. And what you said is perfectly illustrated in these two quotes:

I believe part of the reason (going from memory) was the young age (teenager) of Tradefortress when most of this occurred.

Has there ever been a case of a Bitcointalk scammer going to jail? Never seen or heard of a case like that, all they get is a red tag on the forum while they move around freely outside of it, and the fact that there have been multiple scams here and no one has ever been caught in real life makes you worry.

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The 4000 BTC  was transferred to this wallet address 1EMztWbGCBBrUAHquVeNjWpJKcB8gBzAFx
1Acj4bQBSh385WLzZKv9s1cwrYmUwUgdYg from 17 addresses and both addresses are showing zero (0) balance.If only he had kept a small portion of the coin until now. Everything appears to have been spent between 2013 and 2015.

pirateat40 / Bitcoin Savings and Trust: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-fraud-texas-idUSKCN1012W8
GAW / Homero Garza: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/09/man-who-swindled-9m-in-wannabe-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme-headed-to-prison/
Bitconnect scammers might get there as well: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/us-selling-seized-cryptocurrency-in-bitconnect-fraud-case.html

TradeFortress made a post in 2018 in the Donators section of this forum where he reached out looking for victims to repay for his misdoings.  I took advantage of this offer and received 6.51961 BTC from TradeFortress as a result.  From my perspective, at least he made/is making an effort to repay victims.  I lost far more BTC in the GLBSE debacle where no attempt was made to return Bitcoin to victims by it's owners...  So it seems like when it comes to paying people back for things you were involved in, TradeFortress showed more honor than others who had ownership stakes in operations that made no effort to repay those they took BTC from even though they are sitting on piles of other people's BTC to this day.

Scam is not moderated;
But Plagiarism is moderated.
I would rather that someone steal my work in this forum without  referencing me than steal my BTC.

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Scam is not moderated here;
But obvious scam should be moderated and maybe handled case-by-case by the moderators.
With the system not having any punishment for scammers or reward for non scammers. It means that it is only a few users that will get some huge bitcoin and choose not to ruin their reputation.

You have to look at TradeFortress' situation from a legal perspective.

In circa 2013, TradeFortress was running a website (Inputs.io) that offered custodial services for its customers, and something happened that resulted in Inputs.io not being able to honor customer deposits. According to TradeFortress at the time, this was because of a hack of a hosting provider they were using, and according to some community members, this was because TradeFortress decided to steal some of the money belonging to Inputs.io customers.

Regardless of the underlying root cause, it is very likely that TradeFortress had liability when Inputs.io could not honor customer deposits. This is an important detail.

Subsequent to the alleged hack, TradeFortress prioritized deposit claims of those with larger amounts owed by Inputs.io. IMO, by doing this, he lowered the likelihood of being pursued by customers -- in effect, he did not honor deposit obligations of his smaller customers (the customers who would have the least incentives to aggressively pursue him).

In any litigation, any statements you make can potentially be used against you. So pirate40 for example decided to stop posting on the forum so that anything he wrote could not be used against him in court. pirate40 ended up going to prison anyway, although, by the time his enterprise collapsed, there were no lingering questions if he was running a scam. Other scammers simply stopped using their accounts after their account was no longer able to produce income for them -- some of these scammers may still be here, operating under different names.

After Inputs.io collapsed, many months elapsed, and TradeFortress made statements on the forum that IMO reduced the likelihood of being pursued in court for deposits he did not honor. For example, TradeFortress tried to join a signature campaign, despite allegedly having millions of dollars worth of stolen coin (value at the time). I might point out that obtaining a judgment against someone with no assets will only get you a bill from your attorney.

Fast forward a year or two, there was a somewhat similar situation with another company, called hashie (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4933260) that was involved in cloud mining.

Based on what happened when hashie imploded, I believe it was a scam, although it is possible what happened was the result of TradeFortress' immaturity. AMhash, then the entity that hashie was reselling cloud mining contracts for, imploded very shortly after hashie imploded -- I think this probably points to TradeFortress potentially having lines of communication with AMhash that went dead before it was publically known that AMhash was imploding and TradeFortress deciding to maximize his profit from his company.

If you believe that hashie was a scam, a reasonable person might belive that Inputs.io was also a scam. In any case, it appears that TradeFortress is not able to cover edge cases of security issues.

This is a very interesting story, thanks for sharing this,


Well, at least, you are among the lucky ones, I guess...


Excepting the examples given by suchmoon, I'd also add the case of knightmb (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=345). The case was very well documented by xtraelv.


Apparently, he went to jail for trying to extort a political figure O0 More info can be seen inside these posts of xtraelv: [1] (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4547124.0) and [2] (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3247239.msg40925867#msg40925867).

I'm somewhat with LoyceV in this: the scams have happened very far in the past and probably before the trust system has become this important. Maybe I'm wrong, but I expect back those days one gave trust rating only if he had direct deal with the other person/account.
And most of the current active people don't know much about that, don't care that much about that... see it as "long gone". Not good, but this does happen. Politics and elections work on a similar principle, exactly because... as somebody famous ;D said:



What I don't agree with LoyceV is about not "adding more to the pile". I've just added one more to the pile, with link to this topic.

Other notables that went to jail.

Knightmb - (Michael Brown) for the extortion of Mitt Romney https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4547124.0 (account no longer with original owner)

WME - (Alexander Vinnik) was tracked down for the MtGox theft laundering because of this deleted post on bitcointalk. (external link http://archive.is/6cFcY )

MagicalTux (Mark Karpeles) for the failure of MtGox https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4412667.0 (although I consider him more of a victim of circumstances)

Altoid / silkroad - (Ross Ulbricht) and his co-conspirators https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4437773.0 (Not really a scammer but selling illegal goods and services) His opsec on Bitcointalk and another forum probably gave him away. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/10/silk_road-au.html

Akemashite Omedetou -  (Roman Sterlingov) - Bitcoin fog service https://darkweblive.net/bitcoin-fog-operator-arrested-in-los-angeles/

Escrow.ms (Pankaj Bhardwaj) - Credit card fraud https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1359865.0

Yankee (BitInstant) - (Charlie Shrem) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.0
He co-founded the now-defunct startup company BitInstant, and is a founding member of the Bitcoin Foundation. In 2014 he was sentenced to two years in prison for aiding and abetting the operation of an unlicensed money-transmitting business related to the Silk Road marketplace.He was released from prison in 2016. In 2017, he joined Jaxx and served as its chief operating officer, and founded cryptocurrency advisory CryptoIQ. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Shrem

Julian Assange (not a scammer or criminal - but in jail)  probably lurked on here too and Wikileaks got a mention from Satoshi himself in the now famous final quote. "WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us. "
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280#msg29280

Absolutely idiotic post. This is from a decade ago, so let me try and remember:

mining4fun11: Person was a scammer.

MoneyPakTrader.com: I delivered exactly what he asked for, he tried to scam me for a refund and decided to intentionally fuck up the script I delivered and claim it isn't working, when it was.

starsoccer9: I delivered what he asked for, I think there was some things I wasn't able to get working, so we agreed on a mutually accepted partial refund.

webr3: Ripple whiner. Ripple is a scam, I was just exposing it.

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No I didn't, I practically paid back everyone who I could reach before I depleted all the funds.

This was because Inputs.io was hacked, not because I decided to steal money belonging to my customers.


No, I didn't. I did my best to reimburse customers with the remaining balance, both small and big. Later on, thanks to buying Ethereum in the ICO, I was able to reimburse a much greater portion of creditors.


I'm still here because I didn't do anything wrong. I wouldn't have tried joining a signature campaign if I was sitting on millions of dollars of bitcoins, lol.


Hashie imploded because AMHash, who was the seller of the underlying hash rate, decided to exit scam.

I had no lines of communication with AMHash that indicated it would be a scam. Why would I choose a supplier that I knew to be a scam? I was trying to operate a legit cloud mining platform.

If anyone can recover funds from the Inputs.io hacker, or AMHash, they are welcome to 35% of all recovered proceeds (thousands and hundreds of BTC).

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Any other questions?

That's why you trolled everyone on your way out, because very mature LOL

What a fucking clown.

Can you confirm that the reason for their ban was because of the scam they committed?



The trust system is not moderated, I believe it's one of the reasons people act as if they have forgotten the scams. I am relatively new in this forum, if someone like me decides to attack or challenge the scammer, he might decide to ruin my trust list by giving me some red tags. As you can see, he is a DT2. So, I think because of trust abuse, that is why some people don't bother involving themselves in trust related matters.

However, there is a clear warning on his trust that will make it almost impossible for him to further engage in trading or services.

I know many of the people commenting here weren't actually around back then, so let me just say that while it cannot be proved who ran with the coins from the "hack," it seems clear to me that TradeFortress did make an effort to pay people back and if he was trying to sign up for a signature campaign to help him repay more people, it is a shame that those who weren't around back then but choose to harm him anyway with negative trust ratings are actually hurting the ability for full repayment.  This attitude of wanting to leave negative trust to people who make strong efforts on behalf of this community has always dumbfounded me.  It's an attitude that has allowed those who contribute nothing to 'rise to power' in the trust network while those who are responsible for Bitcoin's early success by building use cases are demonized and forced out of the community.  

I know I already posted in this thread once detailing how I was repaid what is now a six figure sum of $ in Bitcoin by TradeFortress, but I can't stress enough how repaying this amount of money to a stranger is not something a scammer would do.  At least in my opinion.  



Broke mentality for life!  
(this post brought to you by Stake.com)

Sure, sure, and the other day you wanted to gamble playing heads or tails in amounts of 50 Bitcoins at a time because you were feeling a little sad.
    
Places where you can bet 50 BTC on 50/50 odds?  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5402455.msg60351504#msg60351504)

Either you were lying then or you are lying now, and looking at your trust page I don't believe your explanations.

... said the scammer.


Of course you did. (/s)


Actually yes. Are you aware that this second post in a row you made is breaking forum rules? I was expecting for such an old member, like you, to know the forum rules.


Perhaps you did not know that scamming is illegal, but haven't you also known forum rules against multiple posts in a row? Now you'll have that post deleted, as I reported it...

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I can not confirm this and I did not state this. Maybe a mod (or an old user) can help you with this information.

According to your post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248803.msg3507260#msg3507260) from 2013, you told someone that you would repay someone with a balance of less than 1BTC "after larger amounts [have been repaid]".

IIRC, after bitfinex was hacked in 2016, you had moved ~1,000BTC in order to impress some girl you knew IRL. I believe the value of 1000BTC was worth approximately $600k at the time.
As suchmoon said, I believe you had trolled your customers with some song.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I think the question of if the "hack" was real or fake is a moot point. Especially so for the inputs.io case. If people were depositing money to tradefortress' business (inputs.io) with the expectation that the money would be returned on demand, I don't think the fact that x happened is any excuse to not honor that expectation.

I am not sure that this will lead anywhere... At least, anywhere toward having the scammer admit his scam :) He did not do it in the past and, for sure, he will not do it in the present as well. But it's interesting how he is acting inside the forum, making a post here and there, acting all naturally, like an innocent person. This is what is shocking me!

I appreciate what you and others wrote here but all the effort is in vain...

P.S.: and moving 1000BTC for impressing a girl... is that real? O0 And if it's real... who does that? There are so many better ways of impressing girls... I am speechless!

That was right after the hack. The handling around them wasn't great, particularly as CL issued loans to people and had to wait until they were repaid. Most of them were never repaid after the collapse.

IIRC, after bitfinex was hacked in 2016, you had moved ~1,000BTC in order to impress some girl you knew IRL. I believe the value of 1000BTC was worth approximately $600k at the time.[/quote]

Repayments happened throughout 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019.


Mental health issues.


It was more about writing it on the permanent blockchain.

No.. No, not really, lol..
Maybe it would work better if they saw your “balance” in USD terms, but…
Yeah, unfortunately money is about the best way to get pretty much any girl you want..


I read all of the TF scandal years ago..


I need to refresh..

Let me guess, narcissistic sociopath?


There you go, that's the real TF, a scamtroll.

So you admit that you had 1,000BTC? I would certainly not describe you as being "broke". I think a robust debate is good. Even if the other party is not necessarily speaking in good faith.

I agree. But I was just saying that scratching the past may not lead to have TF state the truth now, if he did not do it back then either...
Perhaps it were better, in this case, if we had some of the users which were scammed back then to state if they were refunded...? But I know, this is almost impossible as most of them are not active anymore.

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For some reason, this reminded me of this picture

https://i.ibb.co/7yBg3fn/ADoXWvY.png

Just don't respond to these shitposters. If you were to get shame from somebody, it's certainly not from the OP. He's guilty or he shills the same scams he accuses you of.

The only reason of creating this thread is because you were here before he came so that he can show how good he is and that he has nothing to do with the scams that have been done before.

They want you as a showcase of negative trust to show that the trust score is legit and that scammers are being tagged in some cases. But the people whom you're talking to you just don't know how many scams they've promoted or how many people they've scammed themselves. So there's no case of defending yourself here.

Although I still found this story to be interesting

Shitposters? Lol!


I was not trying to make TF feel ashamed. I only stated a curious behavior. If he feels ashamed, that his problem, not mine. Subjectively speaking, he should feel so, but that's just my opinion.


What am I guilty of? :) And what scams am I shilling? Can you give me an example, please?


That's wrong. I started the topic just for this curious behavior of TF, which acts like nothing happened.


This is true, I have nothing to do with any scam which was ever done.


They who?


Trust score actually is legit and, indeed, scammers are tagged in some cases.


I, personally, know how many scams I promoted and also how many people I scammed myself: 0 (zero).


Yes, TF's story is interesting, if you're an outsider. But it must feel very bad for those which are the victims...

In TF's above post, you will see that he seems to have admitted to having at least 1000BTC of his own money as of 2016. This is not the same as him admitting to stealing money from his customers, but it does show that he did not use all available resources to repay his customers when his site was "hacked".

Good observation, PrimeNumber7! Perhaps he needed more those coins for impressing Internet chicks than paying back his victims. After all, our main role, here, on Earth, is to perpetuate our specie. Perhaps, TF is very interested in reaching humanity's main goal (which should be a noble act (/s) ) and, for that, he used the coins in impressing such women hoping that he would also be able to perpetuate humanity. The other  people's loss was, probably, less important for him.

After all, what could matter more? Having an offspring or paying back a debt? Let's be reasonable here.

(P.S.: I hope you noticed the "/s" I wrote above.)

It's hard to believe it's almost been 10 years... let me try to clear things up from my memory.

TF had a ton of BTC in his wallet AFTER the hack. He did not deny this and claimed that this was his personal funds and nothing to do with inputs.io user deposits. I don't remember how much, I can probably find out if I look hard enough, but I believe it was at least $100,000, if not over $1,000,000. I believe what happened is with the cryptoboom he made millions from altcoin trading this money and this is the money he used to repay everyone. I believe that the only reason he did that was because his IRL identity is somewhat known to people and now that he was a multi-millionaire the best move was to repay people to avoid any potential legal issues.

I also think the hack was made up. He blamed the hosting provider linode for the hack. For people who don't know, there was a few hacks that happened back in 2011-2012 with sites that were hosting on linode that had 2fa bypassed, there was actually a guy called Zhou Tong who owned a site (forget name of site) this happened with, and there were a lot of similarity between TF and him including age location etc. They are not the same person but I reckon that had something to do with TF choosing this cover story. But anyway my point is linode was literally hated by the community and everyone knew not to use them because bitcoins kept getting stolen from sites hosted there. At the time everyone who heard that he was using linode thought he had to be faking, it was just too convenient that he was claiming to be another linode victim. Nobody could have been that stupid to put anything BTC related on linode. He also never preserved any of the logs or any evidence of the hack from back then. Also all of "his" money he had after the hack was heavily washed through bitcoin mixers so could easily have been the same coins.

I believe the hack was made up because his business model was not sustainable and he was losing money for months before this as well as gambling away tons of money and even getting scammed himself, and this was his way out of the situation. He had 3 businesses, coinchat, a website that paid people for chatting, inputs.io a wallet that had no fees for offchain payments, and coinlenders, a lending site. In that time period, peole who got into lending lost big time, he even mentions that in this thread, all those p2p lending platforms ended badly. So it's not exactly clear how he was turning any profit, but he was was regularly throwing around cash, making 100btc+ bets on gambling websites such as justdice etc.

So thats basically my opinion on how things went. He was a very young lonely dude, talented for his age but wayyy too cocky, he launched 3 websites. They got a lot of users, he made a lot of friends and enjoyed the online reputation he had. But the businesses never made any profit. So once his websites bled too much money, he faked the hack and ran away with the rest of the funds, got into altcoin trading and made bank, then decided his best move was to pay back the people he scammed.

I'll also add something I just remembered. TF had a pretty bad gambling problem, I hope he's doing better now. But even before he did anything bitcoin related, he was literally in the news because he had spent something like $50,000 on microtransactions for an online game. No idea how he was able to get that much money because he was a teenager. I remember the games developer literally stalked him after he tried to quit to try and get him addicted to the game again. Something relevant to think about.

Anyway, I'm glad the guy paid most people back, he did the right thing, sounds like he eventually sorted out his life. I didn't have much knowledge of mental issues back then but I definitely do now as I've lost people close to me, and I myself am living with depression etc, so I'm actually relieved to see him posting here and hope the best for the guy.

Theres way more stuff I could talk about, it's slowly coming back to me, at one point years ago I was literally considering writing a book about the whole thing because there is wayyy more to the story lol. But I kinda feel like it wouldn't be anyones benefit to bring up half of the shit, probably best if we stop beating the horse. Just felt the need to correct the record a little bit.

The point I was trying to make was that TF clearly had a lot of coin after the hack (or more likely IMO, "hack"), and this runs contrary to TF's claim that he is/was so broke that he was trying to get minuscule amounts of coin from signature campaigns.

Money, including bitcoin is fungible. If TF had personal funds, but also ran a business that took on debts (such as customer deposits), in most cases, if the business had losses, his personal funds would need to be used to cover any business debts.

Of course, what I am saying, you are not to be trusted no matter what. The idea that those old scams were gone does not mean that the scammers did, and they could have very well created new accounts such as yours (who knows) and now they say oh look at those old scams they should be all gone. And the proof is all of the scams we see with the "trusted" members.

Now definitely like everywhere else there is still some people who never scammed but most of the time it's a matter of chance to fall on someone who does/does not scam. It might be your case (for now), but there is nothing to brag about your trust score because it has very little meaning.

Everybody has the right to trust or distrust anybody else. I have no problem with that. However, the reason stated by you (below) for distrusting me is pure idiocy.


So you are implying that I may be an old scammer of the forum, which was blamed in the past and then, somehow, returned with a new account and spent years for building a good reputation, just to have the chance to meet such a bright mind as you are to expose me. Do I understand this correctly?


What are these scams "we see" (who is "we", anyway?) with the "trusted" members (and who are these "trusted" members?)? Can you be more specific, please?


What you wrote above is outstanding wisdom. It's like saying that, when you go out of your house, you have 50% chances of having a rock falling on you. Your unbelievable words of wisdom remind me of an old story about a tribe of Gypsies, which elected an old Gypsy to rule them. And, in each morning, when the elder was going out of his tent, he was saying: "today may rain or may not rain". And everyday he was right! And all the Gypsies were stunned by his intelligence!



Sadly, Trust score does not always reflect someone's trustworthiness, as many members are misusing Trust feedbacks. However, excepting that, you say that I am bragging about my Trust score. Where have I (ever) done that?

Of course, you may be, that is totally possible, no need for a bright mind, even you must say it's possible.

"we" is the average user who comes and reads some of the scam accusations and the reputation section in this forum. There are a lot of them, the latest one is the BitLucy scam perpetrated by "trusted" member Royse777.

We perfectly agree, so obvious that it's only a matter of chance to fall for a scam here, the "trust" system does not help that much. Scams are as frequent as weather changes.

Here, again, we agree. I just said there is nothing to brag about not that you are bragging.

While in theory everything is possible, in reality a scammer simply doesn't have the patience to build for so long for a pretty much uncertain result.
Scammers want easy money/easy results. So this behavior would not match with scammer's psychology.
Just my 2 satoshi.

Anyone can be a scammer, but that does not mean that everyone should be treated like a scammer if there is no evidence they are a scammer.

Sure, it is possible that GazetaBitcoin is an alt of some scammer, but I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that is the case. Nor am I aware of any accusations of GazetaBitcoin scamming anyone, credible or otherwise.

I would compare this to TF, whose case has a set of facts that I do not believe are disputed (and that I understand are accepted by TF), which makes me believe that TF has not honored his obligations to certain members of the community. You can argue semantics as to what he should be called, but I think it is reasonable to not entrust him with your money.

Thank you both, NeuroticFish and PrimeNumber7, for your comments and involvement here.

And, speaking of semantics, thank you also for explaining to PaperWallet the difference between possible and probable. But, have no fear, he knows this difference, but he's just acting dumb. And he's acting dumb for a very specific reason, which I'll explain below. I hoped, up to this point, that he will stop being childish, but seeing that his tantrum continues, let's see what it's based of.

As you probably guessed yourselves, it has nothing to do with TF case :) It's just that PaperWallet is biased against me for a specific reason.

A while ago, he created a flag (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=303298;page=iflags) against FortuneJack, a flag which was, in my opinion (and not just mine), inappropriate (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5399713.msg60230848#msg60230848), therefore I opposed it.

Excepting that, from his own will, PaperWallet stated that he is willing to give a small prize to all users which would either support or oppose his flag. That was his own will, without being coerced by anyone else.

Afterwards, seeing that users are opposing his flag, he started to be delusional (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5399713.msg60240557#msg60240557), stating ridiculous things, such as he will curse the prizes he was going to award (facepalm moment), in a sore attempt to make users to ask him to not send that prize anymore lol.




Of course, to such allegation, replies like this one seem best approach:

---

TL;DR: PaperWallet is a sore loser which has nothing to do with TF, nor he gives a damn about what TF did in the past :) All he cares about is that I opposed his flag and now, no matter what I would have said, he would have to say the opposite.

This topic could have been about other notorious scammers or other repugnant individuals, such as El Cabron, master-P, Butterfly Labs, pirateat40, cablepair, humanrightsfoundation etc. etc. etc. No matter the subject, PaperWallet's reaction would have been the same.

I hope that things are more clear now about his views :)

Amen, said the GodFather of the very much "trusted" system.



nah come on, do you think I have nothing else to do then follow those who opposed my flag and contradict them? Anyway I've done none of that to the other people who opposed my flag. You just happened to open up a very interesting subject (I'll give you that, at least you're not shitposting), and that's why I followed up. I just found the subject interesting. I don't really have to participate in any activity on the forum, I have nothing to gain here, except some interesting exchanges with some people, some fun, and reading some interesting stories.

Does anyone know definitively why TF stopped to refund the people he scammed?

Thank you for the high consideration you have about me, but I am not involved in managing the Trust system. I am only assigned to cycle merits inside my gang. Fore more information, please see also my Personal Text.


Yes, I actually believe that. And it seems I am not the only one:



Oh, how sweet of you! You haven't cursed those coins? Are we safe then? O0


Oh, this is so kind, now I can rest in peace. I was really worried that I am a shit-poster but now I feel so relieved...


True, there is nothing to gain here. Furthermore, from what I saw, you mostly lose something, rather than gaining. Therefore, why the effort to be here?


Aww, come on... Be here for fun and stories and risk losing so many other things...? Better be safe than sorry!

Lol you just seem to have forgotten that it wasn't you who said that sentence, but it was LoyceV. If you haven't, of course I am referring to the person who wrote that sentence not to the one quoting it. Funny somehow you're taking credit for it.

I noticed, a few days ago, that someone made a post in this topic. I noticed it as the topic was highlighted when selecting "Show new replies to your posts". However, I did not see who made the post and I also did not read the post at the respective moment. A few days later I remember about it and I come to check the topic, but it seems that whoever made the post, deleted it, as now the last post of the topic (excepting this one) is from July 24th.

Is there any way to see the deleted post? Maybe LoyceV can help somehow...? I am curious what the post was about (also why it was deleted).

See https://loyce.club/archive/topics/537/5377727.html

More specifically: https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6135/61354460.html

Thank you both! Much appreciated :)

---

My dear Bluto,

First of all, I am curious why you made that post, only to delete it afterwards...  ???

About Roger, I think there is enough evidence mentioned as feedback on his Trust page, where multiple users exposed his scheme:

https://i.ibb.co/4PX6mpZ/ELIZ9uh.png

Don't you think he is red enough? :) Furthermore, he also has a flag open on his name, for defrauding people. The topic mentioned as reference is this one: Roger Ver/Memorydealers is intentionally defrauding people (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153498.0).

But what's the connection, from your pespective, between "Bitcoin Jesus" and 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰?

I started this topic to point out that 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 acts like nothing happened in the past and is still present on the forum, instead of having, at least, the decency to make himself gone from here. But Roger Ver is not present on the forum anymore. So what's the connection?

About what you said about Erik Vorhees I don't know what to say, I did not study this subject.

And, once again: why did you delete your post?

He didn't delete it, Mods did (https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php):
That's probably because it's off-topic.