Bitcoin Forum

What happened: Scammed for 0.32btc while order miners from Canaan shop. I changed my mind because of trust issues

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3481962

Reference Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5401709

Amount Scammed: 0.32btc

Payment Method: Bitcoin

Proof of Payment: https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/785c1d89d223738c28405b2c2a9d72a23717957d62eee7ce78be57261b0e164d

https://prnt.sc/bFOuKUQzuVPo
https://prnt.sc/BWrZ365US6cz


PM/Chat Logs: Don't want to share in public.
https://prnt.sc/ArRrmO0tAG_l
https://prnt.sc/6n60EVMC7fK_ - They confirm that email from me was received
https://prnt.sc/seZq2KI3KF5p - Screenshot from the Canaan admin with the email they received from me
https://prnt.sc/_ZMojCMNvpzO
https://prnt.sc/0rlBRU3lGxTk
https://prnt.sc/d8Y2Td9AYO4h
https://prnt.sc/c_vSArFEtm4m

Update: Now i am banned from the official Canaan group
https://prnt.sc/PlPfJXIFhhhh


Notes:
My order is US22103110241860
I paid with Bitcoin
I start to have trust issues and i requested refund.
They ask me for many things i provided including email from me, proof of payment and etc. I provided everything in their telegram admin "Coco" everything including screenshot of the payment and etc.
I provided them with refund wallet because i don't have access to the wallet i send the btc from sadly.
From few hours, they are tricking me and delaying me with many stupid questions and things that had nothing to do with my order or payment.
So far i didn't received my money, and they are scamming me.
For chat logs or anything else, i can send private to admin or moderator because they include sensitive private information of mine.
I requested my refund to be done to wallet i have access to after going thru all their verifications and still they refuse to refund me and asking to send my coins to wallet i have no longer access to.

Flag was created: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3043

Now i am with restricted access to their group because i called them scammers. They workers Coco and Cecilia blocked me from telegram to :D
https://prnt.sc/4HVrxcSA4uMO
https://prnt.sc/vdi6rTxhLXnV

Fucking pathetic scammers
Never ever trust fucking chinese re-sellers like Canaan

Long story short.
I order 4 x Avalon Miner A1246-93T 3420W from their website paying exactly 0.32390139btc.
After some hours i did some researched here and there and i found that i did terrible mistake by trusting them with my money..
I was already in their Telegram so i decide to contact their admin Coco with username @cocogao on Telegram.
I have send him/her screenshot from my phone with the payment confirming its me, i also provided them with my personal information, my shipping address, my order number and like everything they needed to verify me.
As that was enough in that time, later i was requested to send them email requesting refund from the email i used to order which i did.
Because my ledger broke few hours ago and i don't have the seed (yes i know i am dumb) i requested my refund to be done to wallet i have access to.
I provided the wallet i want my refund to Coco in telegram, also send them email from the very same email i have registration on their website and everything.
After i pass all their nazi checks, i've been told that they have a "rule" that force them to return the payment to the "original wallet" it was send from :D :D :D
I explain them that my ledger is broken, that i have no seed to access my wallet and if they return the money there, they are lost without success.
After i send them again couple of emails requesting my refund to be done to wallet i have access to i was blocked from their telegram and by their admins.
I have passed all their nazi checks to verify myself, requested refund to wallet i have access to and explain why the refund should not be done the the wallet i send the payment from but without success...
I was "chatting" with Coco for several hours doing whatever she/he ask me for as requests, but seems like even that didn't help.
So now they are trying to "refund" my bitcoins to my ledger that i have no longer access to, trying to "clean" their hands by "refunding" to wallet that no one have access to  and leave me scammed and without my money.
I can understand that there could be language barrier, but there is so many free translators over internet if they don't understand English.
And of course, they should understand English if they want to work with people outside of China.
Seems like Canaan is scamming me and don't want to refund me after all their nazi checks and everything

I read your conversation with support, reposting the image to make it easily readable for everyone:

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob7e3315964c605285.png
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob52751f30fd5a5eb0.png
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob2d137ac730d79ce1.png
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blobdce7120e7148f6ab.png
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob18114a381003e649.png
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob36d5981e32f5ccea.png

Sorry to say it, but with the kind of meltdown you had I would have put you on ignore too and stopped chat communication, and switched to email.

You sent a payment on the 30 of October, Sunday night, on the same night you contacted them and asked for a refund to a completely different address and because they didn't do that on the spot without any verification you started calling them every way possible. Not taking Cannan's side as I've never dealt with them but how you approached this every single merchant out there would have done the same, muting you and requiring email communication.

They are sending the money back to the address you have sent them the payment, they're not taking your money so it's not really a scam, at most it's very poor customers support, but you're at fault here too, unfortunately.

1. The Canaan Official Online Shop and the Telegram Group are real. So we are not so-called scammers at all.
2. In response to your request, we are required to refund the designated account he gave instead of the original wallet because "HE DOES NOT HAVE THE ACCESS TO THE ORIGINAL WALLET" which we cannot satisfy. Refunds have always been refunded in the same way. If there is a problem in this regard, it is not our responsibility, and we will not rashly remit money to unfamiliar or unsafe accounts.
3. Within 12 hours of this incident, we have been doing our best to communicate with all company departments to help customers get refunds. But you kept verbally abusing and attacking us, which was disappointing. Nevertheless, we still are working hard to help customers complete refunds.

Since he had to go though KYC in order to order the miners (according to your TOS) how come you don't allow the change of the address? What's preventing you from verifying his identity one more time, to be sure that is the same person who ordered the miners in the first place?

While checking your TOS, I found something I haven't seen at any legit online shop. Is that really how you treat your customers, not allowing them refund at all?

Since his BTC is reminded as risky by the KYC third party, so we cannot accept it and we agreed to refund it to the original BTC address. It really takes time to get approval in our system. He just warned us to refund immediately and refund to another new address...

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020221030110209340BlAGIXVS065E


They all do post this but it's mostly just on the surface,  just as people do manage to cancel orders and get refunds from Bitmain, as you can see they agreed to send back the funds to the original wallet, so they agree on a refund but with their conditions.

It's just stupid at this point of course they could make an exception especially since OP is having a meltdown and is probably one inch away from a heart attack but at the same time, you just can't just send funds to a different wallet that easily, especially since the buyer changed his mind a few hours after the order. What if he used somebody else account and coins to pay?

I am not aware in what exact language to explain that i've go thru all the nazi checks even more than usual to verify i am myself.
That's not the case.
If my ledger didn't die or if i had the seed, i won't had any issues to accept my refund back to the wallet i use to send the btc.
Consider that's not the case, and i don't have access to that anymore, tell me exactly what's my options here consider i can't take my refund there?
To leave them with 6000$ just because i want my refund in wallet i have access? Don't joke..
I provided them with private information about myself that no one else can. It is pretty obvious they are playing with their TOS or delaying me for some reason.
But the most sad thing would be if they really refund my money to wallet that no one have access to.
Then it will be sad and funny together

Well that sucks, even if Bitmain is operating like that and I would never personally buy from such company. Why not mentioning that in TOS, that money can be refunded only to the address from where bitcoin is sent?


Yeah of course that they can't refund him immediately (not even Amazon would do that and we all know how good their customer support is) and OP really misbehaved (even his story of having Leger dying just few hours after sending money seems kinda far fetched but I guess it can happen) but imho there should be some procedure to get a refund to a different address.

Tell me exactly, how i can grand their conditions consider i don't have access to the wallet because the ledger is dead and i don't have the seed?
And tell me exactly, why should i go thru their whistle consider i go not only thry KYC but 10 different other NAZI checks to confirm myself. Including screenshot of the payment from my phone...
And interesting, what do you think, if you were in my situation what would you do if you lost access to the original wallet you send money from? Leave them 6000$ for free just because you lost the seed and your hardware wallet is dead? Cmon :)

Update: Now i am banned from the official Canaan group :D
https://prnt.sc/PlPfJXIFhhhh

Keep telling me that they are not scamming me....

a few things are suspicious to me from the OP.
A few hours after he sent the transaction, he requested a refund but to a new address. First, because his Ledger is broken?? A dead hardware wallet in just a few hours sounds like a bad excuse to me.
only 15 minutes later, he claims again that he does not have access to the email address and therefore no longer manages that bitcoin address.
so what is the real reason why he insists on a refund to a new address?

https://i.ibb.co/LnQSxBg/image.png (https://ibb.co/kQ3K4zD)

I don't know anything about Canaan Online Shop, but they are right that they did not immediately return the money to the new address. certainly not after the OP's way of communication.

Bad excuse? Yeah sadly hardware dies without notification. It is not my fault, and even if it was, in the end its my money right?
Why i insist on a refund to new address ? Because i don't trust Canaan anymore and i want my money back ? Consider my ledger is dead, what other options i have than requesting my refund to wallet i have access to?
And why you are missing the part that i passed KYC, and provided 10 other NAZI checks to verify myself?
I provided things that no one else than me can provide and 1000% proof that i am myself.
I respect their ToS, but at this situation, there should be solution to take my money back right? It is not like i have other options?
I had few red flags before i order and i did it with shaking hands. After little bit of time, i realized my mistake and before contacting Canaan i tried everything to run my Ledge without success... Tell me what else i can do ? And how come you blaming me for asking for my own money? What's my fault here? That i am not hardware specialist to fix my ledger or not keeping my seed? Jeez..
I have access to my email address and i have send them many emails, and they confirmed they have my email... What are you talking about?
They even requested me to send the new refund wallet via original email i have registration on their website, i did it.
I provided every single request they ask even WAY WAY more as i already said.
I can provide screenshots hiding the sensitive information that i've done everything to verify myself.
Going thru KYC, Sending email confirmation with new refund wallet via my original email, sending TX of the transaction, sending screenshot of the payment page while paying to them, my full infos including shipping address and everything.
Excuse me but they have ALL the information from me to verify me.
This is just poor customer service from their side for not understanding that there is situations that doesn't depends on the customer such as faulty hardware wallet.

*I was so mad that i miss type saying i don't have access to the original email, while i was trying to say i don't have access to the original wallet.
Above you can see confirmation from them for receiving email from my original email providing new refund wallet.

The fact that they blocked me in private messages, banned me from the group saying many things without words...

Am I correct in assuming that the above screenshot was taken from the Ledger Live mobile app and you own a Nano X wallet? If the answer to that is "YES", then it probably has something to do with its awful/unreliable battery and you can find the solutions in the following thread: Ledger Nano X Battery Pandemic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5358741.0) <sup>[make sure to read all of the comments]
- I hope it helps with speeding up the refund process.</sup>

Thank you so much!! <3 So far, i tested everything existing over internet and the ledger is dead...
I still can't believe what are the odds to be scammed from "Legit" company and my hardware wallet to die at same time.
The worst days i had this year....

Bitcoin is not fungible. If you have Bitcoin with a "bad" history, you can't use that Bitcoin with a regulated entity. Same for regulated Bitcoin-exchanges. What is bad history is determined by chain analytics companies and includes hacks, scams, bad country, peer to peer exchange, coin joins, etc.

Many people desire frangibility and claim Bitcoin to be fungible. However government regulation enforces non frangibility of Bitcoin by enforcing discrimination depending on the transaction history.

Ok, so, even before I read the rest of this thread and how you respond to people on this thread, and decided that you're an ass --hey, that was an honest impression I get from how you replied to them all-- I've frowned upon several things based on your opening post only, and get more and more curios as I progressed through the rest of the thread. A small tip before we begin and/or you continue with other member --me, especially-- leave your swearing and slurs elsewhere, my swear jar is currently full, I don't need your pennies overflowing it.

The first thing I stumbled upon and made this forehead creased is hpw you said that Coco ignored you both on the screenshot I cropped below as well as your other screenshot timestamped 09.04-09.08 (https://prnt.sc/4HVrxcSA4uMO). But here in between 8.56 on your previous screenshot and on the next one --09.04-- we can see the top of Coco's chat buble, which indicate they responded to you. Do you mind showing us what their reply is? I really hope it was a simple case of you tryin to point out important chats instead of selectively screenshotting chats that works in your favor.

https://i.ibb.co/VghNn6s/A-chat.png (https://imgbb.com/)

Second, I have to ask, really-really have to ask because I'm really curious and you can't seem to stress it enough: what are those 10 NAZI checks about? Was it the "simple" things a la KYC like your full name, DOB, govt ID., etc, or was it really-really hardcore NAZI stuff --that worth mentioning on each of your post-- like.... they asked you to verify yourself by a picture of you holding a paper signed with date and full name on your right hand while you standing with your left, a pumpkin on your bum, placed exactly at 90°, while your left and right hanging-in-the-air leg bent in a perfect shape of hakenkreuz, all the while three NAZI hippies performing blood ritual, naked and chanting in a morse code on the background? Wow, that's really serious.

Third, in regards to Coco, sadly I have to side with them at this point. In spite that it IS their job to help you, I don't think anyone would appreciate being yelled scammers on so many bubbles, alongside with passive-aggresive "do you understand me now?" --which somewhat borderline racist--, especially because I have allocated hours trying to help you and the real solution is out of my hand because I am bound by the company refund policy. So, if I was in Coco's position, you'll be lucky I was just ignoring your chat. Unless... of course, it'll probably be a different story if the chat buble from Coco that you decide to crop turns to show otherwise. I might as well muted you from the group chat because you go ballistic there too, so yeah, maybe that's not 100% their fault.

Bottomline: you dig your hole by throwing tantrum. I understand that losing 0.3btc is not a pleasant cup of coffee, and I'm really sympathetic for that, I understand that you're frustrated and scared and certainly the lack of sleep did't help, but you make matter worse for yourself by going aggresive on anyone poking their head into your snowball of mess --spoken while holding my swear jar at arm length because I don't want your horde of swears and NAZI attack filled my jar.

You can't blame Canaan or anyone else to be extremely suspicious. I mean, go ask yourself, how likely is it for someone to have their ledger broken right after they made a huge transaction and asked for a refund to different wallet, and the person who goes very-very careful that they choose hardware wallet against cheap online ones somewhat forgot to backup the seeds? If I have to be honest, their reaction to raise a defense mechanism is very nice.

Oh, --fourth-- speaking of ledger...


Uhh... maybe try to fix it? Or at least troubleshoot it? https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405497678481-Follow-device-repair-instructions. Try to submerge it in a nice cup of coffee, it seems both you and your ledger needed one --ok, the last sentence is not really necessary, LOL.


Fifth, and this is the last of my rambling, let me get this straight. According to your narrative so far posted here and there on this thread, you've do a research about Canaan before you decide to proceed buying from them, found so many red flags, but still decide to finalize the purchase, got cold feet, and then asked for a refund? Am I correct? Why? You have all of the red flags, and you still decide to continue, isn't that... well, theres no point on rubbing it further on you. But was it your fault? Hmm... *raised my shoulders*

Now, I've never heard of Canaan before, but I am somewhat sure if a customer from any marketplace platform or whatever online store there is, requested to cancel because they finally decide to go against their initial decision, especially if that request is several hours after the deal is finalized and the fund as well as the order is already processed, the patform or seller has every right to deny the request. Them agreeing on refunding you is already a good start.

Finally, Canaan Online Shop, is there anything you can do about it? Granted, you're suspicious of the request of refund because the address is not the same, refund policy, and all other things said above, but given the buyer has passed all of the verification you asked, can you do an exception this time and allow the refund to go to the designated wallet? This account of his is disposable, but you have all of his details already, I think banning him from any further transaction with you by using that info for any further purchases is a punishment enough --not that I think he'll ever want to buy anything from you anymore, anyway.

If you still want conduct a further DD on his details, maybe put the fund into an escrow to hold until you're satisfied with your DD. Meanwhile, he can get less stress and more compliant because he is now sure his fund is safe and secure somewhere else.

holydarkness, funny, why it is important what they said? Of course i will screenshot EVERYTHING that doesn't include my personal details
There you go:
https://prnt.sc/NO-2d2IOyEMN
https://prnt.sc/UmH5FbyLHMvs

They are mad because i open scam report in bitcointalk to expose them.
I consider as "NAZI checks" everything else than simple KYC, proof of payment.
I provided things which should not be required from a customer for EXTRA verification.
Some of them i passed to them just to make them even 101% sure.
I've sent them screenshot of the payment from my phone, my shipping details, my email (which they have of coruse, also sent them email from my email, the one i have register there, made order and everything) and extra stuff which they know exactly what i mean.
I didn't only provide EVERYTHING they need but extra from my side just to make their job easier.
I am not aware how rich you are, and i don't care, but if 6000$ is small amount for you, i would like to shake your hand dude, you are doing well.
For me, this money is not small amount, and as i mention before, i did the mistake to order with shaking hands and realize my mistake soon after.
Now you blame me for my broken ledger saying to fix it ? :D it would be more easy for me to request my refund to  wallet i have instant access to because i wanted my refund faster of course.
Why would i give those scammers even 10 seconds more, consider i can request my refund legally to different wallet? I have provided them that wallet AS THEY REQUESTED via email (the same email i order and i have registration on their website).
I did nothing else than grand all their requests:
Proof they requested to provide NEW WALLET FOR REFUND: https://prnt.sc/iTzXfuQoCrue
Proof they received my email: https://prnt.sc/ENfTVxEZIOVD

P.S: I did EXACTLY what they told me to, and based on Coco stupidity, because i reported them here in bitcointalk, he cannot help me...
He blocked me from Telegram, and from his Telegram to send him private message...
Proof i am banned on their telegram group: https://prnt.sc/q0Y2PuESEBLR
Their Telegram group is in shop.canaan.io down left corner

did you really not understand what the problem is that you are asking for a refund to a completely new address?


holydarkness He asked you to say which NAZI checks they asked from you, I don't understand why you are holding back from saying that. if you are right, it will give a clearer picture of them.
several users have already told you to try to refrain from aggressive communication, you are really just raising your guard against all neutrals. that does not help you at all and makes it difficult to trust your words.
I believe that a short video, along with proof that it is you, which proves that your Ledger is faulty, would remove all doubts in your words.

For Canaan Shop, if you have already stopped all live communication with this user, shouldn't you inform him about your further actions? How much time do you need for the final decision, whether he passed all the required checks...

Yes i provided brand new wallet for the refund for the reasons above. I just created Electrum and provided them wallet for the refund.
The so called "Nazi checks" are things that no company request from people as verification.
I still have hope to receive refund, and consider i was banned from telegram for reporting them here, i am cautious what i post here because things can go even worse...
If they not refund and scam me i will show everything.
Video of my ledger being damaged ? :D Is this some kind of new nazi check or just a joke ?
Why should i provide anything else than verifying myself as the sender of the payment and providing my KYC and things that no one else could know.
Please, don't rise your post count here with non-sense...
This community cannot help me and i know that because scams are not moderated. I am doing this report only people to aware and they to see that their scam is exposed.
They are the only people that can refund my money and based on their actions against me to silence me, and telling me "now how i can help you" after i reported them, making me way way more cautious so i can receive my refund and not being scammed...
So please, don't post non-sense trying to make my case worst than it is
This is my money after all, if i want, i will receive them with bird over China right?
I am responsible to provide valid proof that i am myself, i am the sender of the money and that's all.
How i am going to receive my OWN money is my own issue. Especially consider my hardware wallet is dead

Pro tip.. whenever you are trying to get your money back or btc from a company or service ... Be SUPER Nice.. it will certainly help. (even the fuckin cable company lol)...

I'm sorry for the loss, I'm not a miner but that's a hefty chunk of btc, I hope u get it back. Just try being nicer, it usually works IMO... ;)

Sounds like a strange story.

Very "convenient" that there is no seed & the ledger broke down hours after using it, what are the chances.
And also buying and then getting cold feet even though having doubts before even making the transaction. Strange.

What about just getting the miners, you wanted to buy the anyway, and then the story is over.
If they dont send the product you can call them scammers but not right now.

You behaved terribly even still they wanted to send you the refund , even though it's kind off against their TOS.

Obey by their refund rules or receive what you ordered, anything else is not worth talking about.

Right, now everything is clear, this OP is a real scammer, we have all proof now. We agreed to refund the risky BTC back to the original address, he was so angry because he is the scammer. Our real customer already contacted us and agreed to refund to the original wallet.

Chat history with our real customer https://imgur.com/a/AgbeaTh (100% original, just hide privacy parts)

Hello guys. This is Cecilia from Canaan Official Online Shop.

Thank you for your continued attention and trust in Canaan Official Online Shop. After all night's investigation, we have confirmed that this OP (CANAANSCAMMER) is a double-sided scammer dealing with the Canaan Official Online Shop and actual customers.

The scammer first pretended to be our official team (@cocgao on the Telegram Platform) to get the customers' information and to let him believe he has been in contact with the actual official team. Then the scammer forged to be the customer who wanted a refund and contacted us to ask for a bitcoins transfer to his designated wallet.  

The actual customer has reported this matter to us; we have reached real customers and are processing the refund to his original wallet.

We always insist on returning the payment in the same way and not accepting the designated account because such scams happen from time to time. We do this to ensure the safety of customers' funds; please understand.

There are numerous scammers and tricks in this industry; we must be vigilant and careful. However, at the same time, we will also learn from this and provide customers with better and safer services in the future.

First because in the ToS sales are final, refunds are from the strat out of the equation normally.
As for the other thing, everyone is buying, because there are only a few manufacturers and because the retailers are way more expensive and you risk far more money with a  scam, and most importantly, this is not a t-shirt that you order at 8 pm and at 8:05 you see a new pair of jeans and you think the t-shirt is no good anymore and you cancel the order. Most that deal with gear make their plans weeks in advance, they won't change their mind 3 hours after the purchase, this is the thing that triggered a lot of red flags in the OP story, even without the whole ledger thing.

And, look at that:

At this point, if as stated above Cannan refunds the payment to the address in question and we see the funds moving (which should be impossible with a broken device) then OP is clearly lying.

So, a littlle added context here that I managed to gather from a quick lookup into Canaan, Inc. that might help us better understand the situation.

https://i.ibb.co/nns0mcy/website-age.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Apparently, they are quite an established company, had been around since 2013 with HQ in Beijing and spread their wings to the US in 2019, even decided to go IPO (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/can) on November of the same year (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/canaan-inc-announces-pricing-of-initial-public-offering-300962865.html). They are even SEC compliant (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1780652/000119312519297270/d773846d424b4.htm), which hugely explains their rule of only accepting to refund to original wallet, perhaps as a requirement for AML, as well as confirming their reason that the refund process is quite difficult due to being divided into departments --not to mention regions as well-- so Coco's claim that the decision of refund is not on their hand and they're bound by the refund rule is somewhat believable. This company --according to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan_Creative)-- housed more than 300 employees. Apparently, they are not a micro company or a home online shopping provider. It is quite logical that the decision of refund is handed by other people or even the higher paycheck.

Now, with these info in our hand...

---

I think the decision to only accepting refund to be sent to the original address is due to this:

https://i.ibb.co/jWzXf9G/risk.png (https://imgbb.com/)
original: https://prnt.sc/d8Y2Td9AYO4h


Canaan is listed and monitored by SEC, I think they have to stay AML compliant, and the address was marked as a suspicious, which understandably discourage them to fulfill the request by OP.

For Canaan Online Shop, if my assumption above is true, do you mind disclosing the result from the third party which flagged the transaction? It'll greatly help us to understand the situation if every fact is checked and verified.

While for OP, CanaanScammers,


It is important to get everything straight and every corner covered, and especially became more important because as per your latest two screenshots it is revealed that you rather keep provoking them while they tried to be nice, whilst the previous impression you create from the screenshots --at least for me-- is that they suddenly went radio silent which angered you and made you throw tantrum. It IS a huge difference.

As for the "NAZI check", you keep refusing to explain what are these about, and I am somewhat beginning to thinking that you exaggerating this verification, making them looks like a huge and troublesome verification --which even after all those trouble, the Canaan still denies your request-- in order to build an opinion that Canaan made impossible request to prevent you from completing refund process, while maybe, just maybe, these "ten NAZI check" are not more than showing screenshot of purchase, TX ID, photo and govt ID to verify that the people asking for refund right now is the same person on their KYC database, and things like that, which quite understandable to be asked by an AML compliant company, or any other company which took huge amount of money and was asked for a refund in matter of hours. Please, please prove me wrong by listing those NAZI check here.


Why not? If 6,000 USD is huge to you --and I never said it is a small money for me-- and you've done the 10 impossible task of NAZI-hercules, what's so difficult and harmful about giving a video of you plugging in your ledger to show that it is not turning on if that'll help you gain your money back? You could even hide your ID by not turning the camera to your face --duh--, and even if you did, they already know your face from KYC, so I think that made little to no difference.


When you said you ordered with a shaking hand... you mean literally and not methaporically because it was a huge tranaction? Your hands are literally shaking that you accidentally pressed order, add 4 to the amount of goods ordered, as well as accidentally clicked verify, entered amount of fund sent on your ledger UI, and other processes from the start to the end? Jesus. You sure you don't want to have those hands checked? From 1 to 10, how close is it to a parkinson? A seizure? May I suggest you to refrain from operating heavy machinery whenever you're nervous? At least until you've consulted your tremor to a specialist.

And  then your ledger broke and the company refused to refund to other address... tell me again, whose graveyard or which burial ground did you pissed on last night? You might want to return and burn some sages.


I suggested you to troubleshoot it, see if you can fix it, the proof so far shows that it'll be easier to try fixing it instead of requesting your refund to be procesed to other address. But now, exampens's suggestion could be an alternative. Giving an extra proof and doing the 11th impossible nazi-hercules task by recording your ledger to show that it is broken would probably do you a favor. You hadn't throw the ledger out of your window during your tantrum last night, had you?


Well uhh... technically, if they are AML compliant and your wallet is marked for suspicious activities --and your explanation around it certainly didn't help, if I may add-- it would be illegal to reroute your money to a different wallet. Pretty much beat the purpose of anti money laundering.

While we're at it and I am very certain you've think that I am a huge pain in the ass, I'd like to upgrade my status into an exploding hemorrhoid. A little fact checks:



So did you do the research before or after the order being placed? And were you wanting to cancel the order because of the red flags you found before-slash-after the order or was it because your hand is very shaky that you made a wrong purchase?


Edit: oops... it looks like the problem solved itself while I'm busy gathering data and typing my narrative. Glad that we meet the end of it.

Thank you owlcatz !!!! If someone really want to help, they can receive negative feedback to see that this community do not accept scammers, and maybe they will take the things more serious. Because so far they are doing really nothing to fix the issue.

holydarkness, Brand new wallet from Electrum is mark as risk ? :D I can't take this serious but only as excuse.
How can empty, brand new wallet be risk ? :D
I don't care about any of their excuses or any of their operation over the years.
I do care about my money only.
I am not aware why we even discuss this more consider as i said and show, i provided everything to verify myself, and i never received my refund.
I shall receive my refund ANYWHERE i want if i have issues receiving it from where i send it.
If they want to burn my money knowing the issue with the hardware wallet, that's their own issue not mine.
Legit company with legit cusomer service will always put on their customers shoes, especially if they have problems like mine.
So far, i seen only excuses from their side, and everything provided from my side.
If you are working for Canaan, i feel sorry for you.
I am not sure why your edit says " everything is fixed" but nothing has been fixed.
I didn't receive any refund so far and i have send them many emails.
I can't care less why their system mark as risk a brand new wallet which were never used ( the one i am requesting refund )

Yeah I agree that OP situation is indeed weird + his unacceptable behavior, but as someone who only buys from places with good customer service, this no refund thing would be a deal breaker for me as not once I sent back quite expensive pieces of electronics (usually its Amazon).

I never bought any mining equipment from one of those specialized sites so I didn't know that's how they all operate, but back in the early 2014 I ordered 2 high end GPUs from a computer store (wanted to mine some coins lol) and after 2 days due some unexpected life circumstances I had to cancel the order.



Well, there should be some way to check whether OP is the real owner of the account, and didn't he say that he is in control of the email that is used to create the account? Anyway, I am not saying that he should be automatically refunded to a new address without a proper verification and he should have read their TOS before doing any business with them, but this no refund thing is just weird to me.

Rika, as i said many time so far, i have provided many many things other than KYC to verify myself as original sender and everything.
I did nothing else than follow what they request.
Now i am dealing with excuses, lies and everything they are doing to delay or not refund me.
They should receive negative feedback to realize that they cannot run from that.

Things are already apparent. The OP tried to steal bitcoins from our real customer, insisting on the "difficulty of verification," while he could not give any proof about his so-called "broken ledger" or "NAZI check."

Again. Canaan Online Shop has officially agreed to refund the original wallet, The process is under approval, and everything is going smoothly. When the original account receives a bitcoin refund, we will announce it under this thread.

As for the OP, we don't want to waste any more time arguing with him. The truth has come to light, and he's making himself nothing but a clown. He not only tried to embezzle other people's property but also seriously damaged our company's reputation. As a result, we have reported this case to the Legal Department and reserve the right to pursue legal action.

You reached the "real" customers? HAHAHAH
What a retarded scammers.
You never refunded me a single cent. I am not aware who and where you contacted but for sure you blocked me from everywhere and never refunded me anything.
You never agreed to refund the original wallet because once again, it is broken and it is impossible for me to receive anything there.
I send many emails to you with the ONLY wallet i should receive refund.
The funny thing is, your admins know about that someone trying to impersonate me and if you forward my money to a scammer, your company should leave the industry.
Proof that the admin is aware scammers contacting me under their name and they are aware of it, because the admin confirming also he is the real one:
https://prnt.sc/NgikDv6TZ5e_
https://prnt.sc/faxX7sP7Rakm
https://prnt.sc/5CUsdMPe4FP4

It is funny how they are trying to clean their hands with situation with scammers running in their group.

Stop sharing your rumors.
You used more than 3 fake Telegram IDs to scam our real customers.
What's worse, you spoofed our real customer's Email address and pretended to be a real customer, and kept sending us more than 9 Emails within 1 hour. Real customers never act like you!!!
If you are a real customer, why not show us your order page? It takes only 1 minute to prove yourself, but you refused because you don't have it.

Nice try scammer. I have proof for every single word i am saying. Seems like you are stupid enough to not check every single screenshot i provide.
I have ALL proofs that you are scamming me, all proofs that YOU KNOW that you have impersonator, all proofs that YOU KNOW that i were contacted by scammer pretending to be you.
I have everything to prove what i am saying, what do you have? Words? No one care about your words here. People are not stupid and they can see the proofs and connect them

We are real, so no need to prove ourselves. If you wanna see the proof, we have to get permission from our real customers first. We can't act like you and share other people's privacy, without adding a mosaic. You don't care about privacy, because you are a scammer, you scammed the payment page and emails from others.

I don't care about privacy ? :D I provide ALL PROOFS that you scammed me and refused to provide me my refund.
What you call "REAL" customers is obvious scammers or impersonators of me which YOU KNOW ABOUT from long time.
I have told you that someone under your name contacted me, and just to make sure i am talking with the real person, i requested to show me the email i have send to you.
You cannot contact me anywhere, because you blocked me from your group and private chat.
I send you more than 11 emails, you know i have EVERYTHING recorded right? You can say anything you want without proof, i have ALL PROOFS for my words.
Stupid scamming retards. Now i know you are playing stupid and setup stories based on the scammers running on your group to benefit scamming me of 6000$
Trust me, you can scam me because no one else than your scamming company can refund me, but as i already said, people are not stupid here and can see and connect things.
At least, i will show your true company face and save others from being scammed from your company

Attention:

This OP is a real scammer and his name on Telegram is JAVA SSM (maybe he has changed already)
He used dirty words all the time, he planned to PUA and drive us crazy, then we may send BTC to his "new" wallet address.
Luckily we have a safe payment and refund process, our finance colleagues are very professional so we need to submit for approval with receipts. What's more, we have technician colleagues who are very professional too, they helped us verify both Email addresses, and this scammer is using a fake email system, that's why he could send us Emails with our real customer's Email address.
BTW, here comes proof from our customer (Agreed by our customer)
https://imgur.com/a/AgbeaTh
Again, never trust this real scammer.

Now you provide random chat with some unknown guy pretending to be me? :D 2 days after my claim ? :D
You guys are really stupid as fuck.
Do you actually think that you can fake conversation with random person.
Don't forget to pass that guy my KYC documents and the proofs i provided on this report so you can make it more real :D
I don't see single confirmation or verification from what you calling "our customer" as myself.
It is funny what people are willing to do for 6000$.
On the screenshots you show to that guy the emails I SEND TO YOU, FROM MY ORIGINAL EMAIL.
Or someone else can send you emails from my email which have 2FA and phone security ? :D
You guys are pathetic scammers.... I can't believe it, and i won't be nice anymore.
Now go to your fake "customer" provide them my KYC and try to play that he's the real customer 2 days after my claim.
You guys actually believe people are stupid here or something?

Well so far, the evidence is clearly not in your favor. It looks like you are the scammer from my POV... ???

Yeah, looks like this whole thing is a major clusterf***! Something was fishy about this person's story from the start. I sincerely hope that Canaan Online Shop really has a professional staff capable of handling things like this, and that they will be able to resolve this case. It's important that customer support remain professional and look at every case from all possible angles, regardless of pressures that some clients try to impose on them. In this case, I suspect that the OP is a scammer who didn't get his way and decided to try to extort money by creating this false accusation.

@Canaan Online Shop, I'm glad to see that you're taking a stand and refusing to cave in. I have been in these situations myself and know how important it is to remain calm, professional, and to not be intimidated by threats. If you are in contact with a real customer, try to get a signed message from the original address. That would be definitive proof that the scammer is lying and that it is safe to return the funds to that address.

Precisely, we agree to return risky BTC to real customers, not scammers without any evidence we can trust. Luckily, we didn't refund immediately to this scammer, even though he freaked us out and even abused us verbally. We only refund real customers who passed KYC and can show us the order page without any excuse.
scammers pretends to be our real customers and PM our admins. Meanwhile, scammers copied our admins' names and profile pictures in order to chat with real customers. That's why scammers have some chat history with our admins and collect some proof from our real customers, such as payment receipts and models, as well as email addresses...

Well, they claim that you haven't provided them the the proper proof (order page etc) that you are the person who ordered those miners. Since you are just a newbie account with no history here and they seem like a legit business, I am leaning towards their side of the story.


You failed to provide the evidence that you have been scammed, as simple as that.

---

edit: I see that @CanaanScammers raised the flag against @Canaan Online Shop, so here it is if anyone else wants to act on it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3043

Scammers never win! Dear all, please vote for truth. We just want to expose the scammers and prevent more users from being scammed.

Don't worry. Everybody with common sense can see this guy is a fraud. From the beginning this was more laughable than anything else.

in the whole case, your side of the story sounds much more true. OP did not convince us of the truth of his claims. however, we also expect complete information from you about the epilogue of this case. it would be good if you leave a transaction here where you refund the funds to the first address(es) from which the payment came.
it would be even better if the original owner showed that he has control over these funds, so the story about the broken hardware wallet would seem to fall into the water.

Also, you don't need to open more new threads about the whole case, it certainly will not affect the assessment of what happened in this case.


keep your dignity hero, and stay nice as before.

After communicating with our real customer, we decided to show evidence and expose the RUDE scammer
https://imgur.com/a/8bIV2ul
(100% original chat history. It's easy to tell who is the real admin and who is the fake admin)

I am scammer from your POV consider i provided ALL evidence how they tricking me, scamming me, screenshots of payment, conversation and everything?
I start to believe everything written about bitcointalk now is true... I highly doubt those scammers to pay you even 1 cent to cover them, but based on the proofs from my side, and their empty words without single proof, it makes no sense to say that and even tag me with negative feedback :D
That's why people don't care about this forum since 2016 and many highly respected members leave.
I am long time worker on this forum, but never registered because of the moderation of it. Poor moderation, corrupted and zero worth feedback, and i can continue till tomorrow...
My behavior is that because i were scammed!!! What you expect? To be chilled, singing "Everything is going to be alright" and tolerate my hard earned money to be taken from my hands just like that? Do you take prozac or something? Of course i will be mad

I love the way people making fake telegrams and chats that didn't exists to cover their asses.
This forum is trash, and sadly Theymos can't care less who moderate it because no one does.
You guys are the scums of the human existing and leave scammers to run and manipulate with so easy faked telegram chats.
You brain deads, check the timings between the ORIGINAL MESSAGES FROM ME, and the fake messages they manipulated.
You morons, check the timing of the payment, check the timing of my original claim, check the timing of the fucking fake chat they created.
Average IQ of the "investigators" here is below 10

You have presented very clear evidence. Thank you for sharing it with us. The only thing left is to provide proof of refund to the original address of the customer.
I'm quoting your entire message with appropriate image formatting for better visibility.

When i see that you made order and few hours after that your ledger is die, you don't have seed, lose access to your email and request refund to new address for me is clear that in your story have something wrong and this money is not belong to you for sure.

Just my oppinion!

Brain dead, seems like u want to receive merit from somewhere.
Now double read the thread, i have access to everything but my dead ledger you autistic fuck

---

Seems like all of you retards don't know the clock to match the messages from the real customer (me) and the messages after created by them to cover their ass.
Open the clock on the down right corner, learn the numbers, double check the conversation when i contacted them, and then check when they created the fake story.
Seems like this community is running by brain dead 9 iq monkeys who support scammers.
One or another way i have FULL proofs those chinese fags scammed me and i will raid their trash telegram, twitter and anything they create

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

It's simple. Prove your story and sign the message from one of the original addresses you used to make the transaction. If you are unable to do that, then there is no reason to believe your story over a legitimate business.

It's obvious they have no intention to scam since they have already expressed their intention to return the coins to the sender's address. Too bad you don't have access to that wallet... and that your plan backfired. Better luck next time.  ;)

Another brain dead retard rised his post count.
Idiot, did you even check the topic before you post?
If my ledger didn't die, i would had access to the original wallet and receive refund.
Of course they have intention to scam, why otherwise they will create fake chat to make me look like i am the scammer ?
Soon after i reported them, and they see the topic, they created fake chat ( it is obvious from the timing)
But why should i explain to brain dead nigger anything

Calm down. You're getting too excited about this. (What's up with the insults, by the way?)
If your Ledger conveniently broke down a few hours after transferring the funds, you can always use your backup seed phrase and import the wallet into other software. You do have a backup seed phrase, right?


That doesn't make sense. Why would they do that? They offered you a refund. They had no way of knowing you didn't have access to the original wallet anymore, right?

BTW, If you really want to make a point, drop the profanity and childish name calling and start backing up your arguments.

YOUR racist piece of shit ass failed to PROVE everything, NOT US. We are NOT your UNPAID "detectives", dumbass. Lay out the timeline of how they actually scammed you in a way we can actually understand besides pissing and moaning and insulting. ???

Make sense yet? You came here just to stir shit, but I'm out, I'm not feeding you ya fuckin troll...

...  That said,

https://i.imgur.com/RiNA9Fq.gif

my question is lets say your ledger broke.

the transaction says you have 0.11 btc sent to a new address.

so are you saying ledger is a scam as that .11 is lost if you really broke your ledger.



https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/bc1qahs37ldswemaa3u5grr8tcp4heavrzlqrv48xa

this is were the ‘change’ went.

so if we track this it should remain frozen forever correct?

as it is in a dead ledger.

why not ask canaan to freeze .32 btc for you while you do what you can do about the ledger.

since the reality is your own careless behavior of being key less is why this is all fucked up.

not canaan and not ledger but you bro.

sorry for your loss.  but no keys means not your coins.

my question is lets say your ledger broke.

the transaction says you have 0.11 btc sent to a new address.

so are you saying ledger is a scam as that .11 is lost if you really broke your ledger.

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/bc1qahs37ldswemaa3u5grr8tcp4heavrzlqrv48xa

this is were the ‘change’ went.

so if we track this it should remain frozen forever correct?

as it is in a dead ledger.

why not ask canaan to freeze .32 btc for you while you do what you can do about the ledger.

since the reality is your own careless behavior of being key less is why this is all fucked up.

not canaan and not ledger but you bro.

sorry for your loss.  but no keys means not your coins.
[/quote]

Thanks, he never has the key coz our real customer only sent him the payment page and mentioned ledger, then this scammer created his own "story"

We do appreciate your support. We are happy to share a satisfactory result with everyonewe here. If the real customer agrees, then we will share the refund receipt.

No need. I can see that you have made a full refund to the customer and the transaction is already visible on the blockchain:
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/5b9599e75894c8cbc49da120d23e4143890ff5f702ca92b3224da7631d18c02d

As far as I'm concerned, case closed. Thank you for being professional about this.

No need. I can see that you have made a full refund to the customer and the transaction is already visible on the blockchain:
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/5b9599e75894c8cbc49da120d23e4143890ff5f702ca92b3224da7631d18c02d

As far as I'm concerned, case closed. Thank you for being professional about this.

[/quote]

The refund was confirmed by our real customer. 8)​

https://imgur.com/a/4P3lHrU
​
Thanks again for your attention and support, we do appreciate it all.​
​
We will further remind our customers to prevent fraud, and we will upgrade the security of emails. ​
Please never trust any fake admin who PM you.​
Scammers are everywhere, we cannot eliminate them but we can avoid them.​
Good luck to all the nice ppl, cheers!

It's good to see that you and your team handled this professionally. A lot of middleman scams on Telegram hence why it's better that you provide support only via your platforms live chat or setup a support ticketing environment for clients to open tickets. That way it will be easy for you and your team to see the original buyer.

PS: The imgur link is broken

I'm quoting for better visibility (fixed the broken image link).


@Canaan Online Shop, you might want to fix the broken quote in your previous post so there is no confusion.

Nice to hear everything ended well. Might want to create a flag (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;addflag=3514359) for CanaanScammers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3514359) so new users that find this thread see a red banner on top of the page saying:

"Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Check their trust page to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution."

I think this scammer already abandoned his account. I am glad the truth came to light.

but in an online search, "Canaan scammed me for 6000$+" will come up as a result at some point. for those who did not participate in the discussion or are too lazy to read the whole thread maybe that will be enough so that they don't decide to buy in the Canaan Online Shop.
it is necessary to put a red flag on the OP account.

It is great that OP has already changed his/her mind by stopping responding on the thread and going offline on November 04, 2022, 12:16:23 AM I am surprised to see that OP is a scammer while s/he has accused another as a scammer. I am opposing the flag and I think @Canaan Online Shop should creates a flag against the op.

Scammers often change their IDs and names, although we found that this OP is a scammer, it does not mean that it can be completely stopped.
Fighting against scammers will be a long-term task.