Bitcoin Forum

Money is often defined as a medium of exchange, a store of value and a unit of account. But that definition is generic. It says nothing about the most important thing - the value of money. How do we actually know the worth of money? That is, how can we, as market participants, determine how many units of something are worth accepting for goods or services? Let's say you're selling a bicycle, and in return, a person offers you 100 units of something they call a 'medium of exchange'. Can that generic term tell you whether the exchange is worth it or not? Well, apparently not. On the one hand, you know that a bicycle is used for transportation, recreation, and sport and that its value depends on how well it serves those purposes. On the other hand, you have no idea what purpose is served by what was offered for your bike. Therefore, for something to be money, it is not enough that it can be exchanged on the market, that it can be used as a medium of exchange. The precondition is that it can fullfil a purpose. The fulfilment generates a specific amount of benefit. The higher the benefit the higher the value. That value is then used as a reference to estimate how many units of that thing are worth accepting for goods and services.

Let's therefore assume that those 100 units are 100 apples. Apples can fulfill the purpose of nutrion. By knowing that purpose, you can evaluate whether it is worth giving your bike for those 100 units. The same is true for other products that have historically been money - livestock, grain, wine, fur, metals, etc. All these products were able to fulfill purposes beyond serving as a medium of exchange. That was then used for estimating how many other products to give for them.

Today, the dominant type of money is the one created by banks, i.e. fiat money. Unlike the above-mentioned types of money, it has no value in itself, i.e. it has no intrinsic value. However, as we have shown above, it is the purpose, not the form, what gives value to something. If an item can fulfill a purpose besides being exchanged on the market it has value. With fiat currencies, the purpose is the return to the banks. Namely, the units of these currencies are created as claims of commercial banks based on approved loans to individuals and companies, and as claims of central banks based on the purchase of government bonds. When they are created as such, the units are put on the market where they are used as a medium of exchange. However, since banks demand them from debtors, the units are regularly withdrawn from the market to be returned to the banks for satisfying loan and bond debt. By fulfilling this purpose, they are no longer exchanged on the market, just like apples that are eaten. And they come back to the market with new debt.

As the return of fiat units is protected by collaterals, we can easily determine the value of these units. Namely, if debtors fail to return them, the banks themselves will return them after they get them on the market by selling foreclosed property of the debtors. So, if banks protect the return of 10 thousand units of some currency with low-end cars, then the value of these units is somewhere in the range of the value of these cars - the market will get such cars at the withdrawal of 10 thousand units. If banks use high-end cars as protection, the units are worth more. If they use houses, the value of the units is much higher.

Now we finally come to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is said to be money. But is that true? Given the above, we can determine this quite easily. All we need to do is answer the following question: can Bitcoin fulfill a purpose besides being traded? And here the answer is resolutely - no. Namely, the way Bitcoin was created, is that its author came up with a protocol that assigns virtual points (bitcoins) to online address. The points are stored in a peer-to-peer database called blockchain. However, whichever owner of an address holds the points, cannot use them for anything except send them to another online address. They can only exchange them on the market, i.e. use them as a means of exchange. Therefore, there is no purpose that Bitcoin could fullfil to generate a specific amount of benefit to its holders. Consequently, there is no value to estimate. Due to the absence of a value as a reference for how many bitcoins is worth accepting for goods or services, market participants do that blindly. For example, they used to give two pizzas for 10 thousand bitcoins, and today they give the equivalent of a whooping 1,000 houses for the same number of bitcoins. This is a nice practical confirmation of the fact that Bitcoin is not money. It creates the illusion of money because it is exchanged but is not money because it lacks value reference.

If Bitcoin is not money, then what is it? Some would now say: "asset", "commodity", "coin", token", etc. Yet, all these terms refer to purposeful items that have value references. Tokens, for example, can be redeemed by the issuer for a predetermined amount of money, goods, services, etc. This amount is a value reference for estimating how many other things are worth giving for these tokens. So what exactly is Bitcoin? Well, it is a system for recording members of a decentralized and self-governing pyramid scheme. Unlike traditional pyramids, this one has no central operator that collects purposeful items. Instead, individuals pay such items into the scheme by giving them directly to existing members. Then the system records them as members by attributing a certain number of points to their online addresses. Finally, members wait for new contributors to exit the scheme. Without them, the return of purposeful items is not possible. And this is how all pyramid schemes operate. Since the Bitcoin scheme is online and thus global, early members made huge profits. This caused great public interest and created a considerable membership base. It is estimated that today the scheme has more than 200 million members. How long will that modern-day investment pyramid last is yet to be seen.

How do you mean that Bitcoin is purpose less mate?

everyone here knows that Bitcoin isn't the same as regular money, but it shares some qualities with money, even though it's not officially seen as traditional money by most authorities. Instead, it's often called a cryptocurrency or digital asset. Despite not being classified as money, people use Bitcoin for transactions, investments, and as a store of value, similar to money. It's a digital asset that can be used to buy goods and services, making it an alternative to regular currencies, although it's not considered money in the traditional sense.


That's bull shit mate. I kind of wonder where you get all these rubbish from. Bitcoin is a digital currency that doesn't depend on banks and works using a special system called blockchain. It lets people send money directly to each other. Unlike a pyramid scheme that relies on getting more people involved, Bitcoin's value is based on various factors, including scarcity, utility, adoption, and market demand.Some people who got into Bitcoin early made a lot of money as its value went up, but it's not just about getting more and more people to join in. The technology it uses and the fact that there's only a limited amount of Bitcoin help make it valuable.

Lastly, we don't call it members but investors try and get the difference.


With all these many write ups, you still couldn't defend your point why Bitcoin isn't money. I taught maybe you had a good idea of what you were trying to tell the community.

to correct the OP

currency is anything used as a medium of exchange

MONEY is a specific currency used by a community/nation and ratified as the official currency of that society.. money in history has been controlled by the rulers of that society and distributed/taxed and accounted by those rulers(legal tender)

much like europeans claim euro as their money, much like americans claim dollar as their money
we in the bitcoin community/society deem bitcoin as OUR money with a different method of distribution and control..

but europeans do not claim dollars as europeans money. but still recognise dollar as a medium of exchange foreign currency vs euro

It's pretty simple: purposeless is something that, when bought, can never be used for anything - which is why it ultimately must be sold - dumped on someone else.

Money must be purposeful because only via the fulfilment of a purpose you get benefit that you then compare with the benefit that goods and services provide. Without having a purpose as a pivot for estimating how many goods or services to give for something it is impossible to make a rational trade. That's after all the reason why Bitcoin price is fluctuating so much. There's no pivot and people trade bitcoins blindly -  today a pizza for 5 thousand bitcoins, tomorrow a car for 1 bitcoin. Bitcoin is not money. It's simply a means to inform you that you invested purposeful items in the scheme where you need new investors to get out and return purposeful items.

That's not correct!

Currency is not ANYTHING used as a medium of exchange, you can use many things as a medium of exchange which I'm sure is obvious around you. You can purchase your shoe and other products and properties with gold or other products and properties, which makes your definition faulty.

Currency is rather a LEGAL TENDER (fiat) note and others backed by the central bank of a country.

Bitcoin never promises profits by recruiting new members. Even if you introduce someone to buy Bitcoin, there's no guarantee you'll make money just because your friend becomes a Bitcoin investor. This is purely because it's an open market where anyone can buy and sell Bitcoin.

The number of investors may increase, and prices may rise, then offering profits by this moments...  but blockchain technology is irreplaceable, and Bitcoin is a strong example of a cryptocurrency with a large community that's part of Bitcoin.

If a Bitcoin ETF gets approved by the SEC, would you still call Bitcoin a pyramid scheme?? After all, something with a limited supply and increasing demand tends to see price increases, right? Take, for instance, land and real estate in Singapore. Limited supply and booming districts certainly drive their prices sharply upward over time.

I am sure OP is here making this post for the sake of intellectual discussion perhaps but at some time we can just be muddling things most especially for newbies. I am just a regular guy, when I see something that I can use to buy and I can also convert into my local currency then it can be some sort of money...at least in my mind. I do believe that Bitcoin can function as money since I can use it to buy some things in some places where it is accepted. Now, for people who are hoarding as many BTC as they can in preparation for the next bull run in 2024, BTC can be an investment or an speculative asset. One can have varying definitions and impressions of Bitcoin and that is so fine with me. 

This doesn't make any sense to me. Banks created a system, governments legalized that system and now the citizens are forced to use that system. This system was at a time backed by gold which has real value, but that was ditched and now it has no intrinsic value.

Trying to draw a connection between collateral and value is a high reach. For there to be a transfer of value then every unit is backed by the other asset which is not the case in fiat. And with the concept of credit which makes it possible to spend money you don't have to pay in the future, there will be a huge deficit using your argument


I would not have bothered replying if I had jumped to the end and read the gibberish about pyramid scheme. This is a terrible attempt at trolling.

The definition of money is a medium of exchange. Not only in paper form but also in metal form depending on which countries agree on the form and type of their money.

In my country, money is known as Rupiah (Rp). With Rupiah we can spend anything we want using Rupiah because Rupiah is a legal means of payment.
I think it's the same in other countries too.


If this is what causes the definition of money to be wrong in your opinion because gold can also buy products or property, I think you are trying to play the function of reason.
Before fiat was in the form of paper or metal, perhaps the ancient Egyptians [Pharaoh] also had a different definition of money.

Bitcoin is money because you can use that to pay or buy anything just like fiat, the difference is people and government aren't yet accept Bitcoin to be used as daily transaction because of scalability issue, privacy concern, regulation problem.

Pyramid scheme is where the new people are lose, in Bitcoin no one is losing as long as you're a long term holder.

If you think demand and supply is a pyramid scheme, everything is a pyramid scheme.

Anything you can use as a medium of exchange should fit the same name as money, I don't care what you believe about Bitcoin, purposeless you say? That's on you and mind you I don't see any reason why someone like you come on the forum, Bitcoin is better than Fiat currency, there is nothing you can say that matters here, everybody knows that Gold can be use as a medium of exchange and that doesn't leave Bitcoin out of this category too, including precious stones and diamonds.

I have used Bitcoin to make so many purchases online, I just bought a starlink and installed it myself, the seller decided to accept Bitcoin as payment and I was glad to pay using Bitcoin, I got my package after 24hrs of making the payment.

Fiat money is what the government makes us work for and make payment using, it's from the government and mind you they are also the maker of this fiat money, to me gold beats Fiat completely, because it can't be printed like they always print the paper money, and another thing that is this close is Bitcoin, this was the reason they hated Bitcoin, assuming the government are the early adopters of Bitcoin they would have purchase almost all bitcoin for cheap price years ago, they missed the chance and they don't like it as well.

The legal means of payment determined by the state are fiat currencies such as USD, Rupiah, Euro, Rubber, Yuan, Yen and so on. However, if the exchange or bartering depends on both parties, if you want to barter with a friend regarding goods or services, that is also legal (for example, bartering gold and shoes or gold with other collectibles or collectibles with collectibles). However, when it comes to legal payments, the only thing that is determined by the state is to use the fiat currency of each country.

Before the fiat currency system was in operation, the coins used were gold and silver or a barter system was used.

have your own belief and understanding but let us have ours also, yeah there are limited places or countries that allows bitcoin to be acted like money(purchasing power) but you cannot deny that in other countries it is used to buy anything like in EL Salvador in which they adopted bitcoin as a currency.
so maybe if you are living in China in which Bitcoin is banned then you can call it as not Money but for us? this is a digital form of Money, thats it.
and that is also a simple reason why we believe this is money and will remain money for the next generation , hope that you will not eat your words when time comes that bitcoin is allowed to use worldwide.

Yes it will be true if we called bitcoin as money because money is that thing with the help of which we can be a part of buying and selling mechanism and same is the case of bitcoin that most of the people are using bitcoin as a payment option but lots of people are just investing in it because they want to enhance the power of their money.

Country where there is restrictions and people cannot use bitcoin will not consider bitcoin as a money because it is believed that success which you cannot see with you own eyes will not be so effective. Those individuals who are involved in bitcoin payment can understand the value of bitcoin and can say that yes bitcoin is money and because of this money you can actively buy and sell as well as increase your financial strength through investment.

In relation to the general definition of money, do you think it is correct as I know it?
Money is a legal medium of exchange and is recognized by a country, such as the types you mentioned, starting from dollars, euros, rupiah and others.


Gold and silver were the means of exchange in ancient times, history confirms that they were often used in the barter system.
Let's return to the discussion of money and the OP's question about why Bitcoin is not money. For me, Bitcoin is money that can be used as a medium of exchange to buy goods for those who use it.

Well as how I see it today in our country, I cant consider it as money yet because it is not our legal tender. Anyone can use bitcoin to buy things from places that accept them and its similar to regular money, but it only exists online. The catch is, not all stores or businesses are cool with accepting Bitcoin yet. Plus it's not controlled by any country's government so its value can be a bit unpredictable. People mostly see it as an investment or a way to make online transactions but it's not as universally accepted like dollars or euros.

Here's my take on a simple counter-argument.

Money, as OP rightly pointed out, serves as a medium of exchange, a store of value, and a unit of account. These are its primary functions. Bitcoin does all that.  People use Bitcoin to get goods and services, they invest in it as a store of value, and even use it to measure the value of other assets.  It's traded like any currency.  The Bitcoin market sets prices for other cryptocoins too. so Bitcoin works as money because people find it useful and are willing to exchange goods, services, or other assets for it. If people are willing to sell real goods for digital tokens, those tokens take on value.

but Bitcoin is different than old-fashioned money though.  It doesn't have physical intrinsic value like gold.  But it's valuable because crypto users trust it.  They trust Bitcoin, so it works as digital money.  The whole decentralized network backs it up. So it works like money because people use it like money.

It amazed me why op will come up with a post like this one with the idea of Bitcoin not been money. Maybe you needed to expatiate more on the examples you have given so far. Once something is legal and there is a consensus for it to be used as a medium of payment just like we see today how Bitcoin is being transacted for payment of goods and services.

I think op need to keep is ideas on what Bitcoin is meant to be since he feel like Bitcoin should not be used as a medium of payment. Check-in the whitepaper of Bitcoin is what I think will help him to understand the concept of Bitcoin and what it is meant to be used for. I am not in for any contentious explanations because I believe there are enough information on the internet that would explain what Bitcoin is meant to be and what it is actually used for.

So here we have the same problem as in my previous thread - the responders are ignoring my arguments and talk about completely irrelevant stuff.

Let's repeat the arguments in the simplest form.

A) Why's Bitcoin not money?
Because it is purposeless. Meaning, when bitcoins are bought they can never be used for anything, and whoever holds them must ultimately sold them - dump them on someone else.

Due to the lack of a purpose whose fulfilment would generate a specific amount of benefit, there's no pivot for estimating how many bitcoins to accept for goods or services and is, thus, impossible to perform a rational trade.

B) Why is Bitcoin a pyramid-style scheme?
Because whoever invested purposeful items in it cannot get such items back without new investors.

So, it's not about definitions. It's about reality. In reality Bitcoin is purposeless and existing investors need new investors to get out. Definitions cannot change reality.

currency is a broad term...
then within the term there are different types of currency
there are many types of currency.

money is the "legal tender" subcategory of currency.. not the other way round

bitcoin does have its own community and association that xBTC is worth $yyyyy

bitcoin is not the money of US central bank. the US central bank just sees bitcoin as an asset currency
bitcoin is OUR money

Bitcoin is money and it can be used to pay for goods and services worldwide, as long as it is been accepted. It is not compulsory for you to buy your bitcoin and hodli, you can still use your bitcoin to pay directly for whaever you want to buy either online or offline. I have a hotel down here that accepts bitcoin payment.

You should also know the purpose why Satoshi created bitcoin, it was for an alternative payment method but because bitcoin is limited in supply, as time passes, it started to increase in value and that is why people now see it as an investment and they prefer to hodli rather than using it for payment because they want to make profit from bitcoin. My uncle bought his PC with bitcoin, and we in this forum do business with bitcoin here. In the nearest future, you will understand what bitcoin is. Ferrari just started accepting bitcoin payment for the purchase of their exotic car.

If you want to pay for any goods or services with bitcoin, you will charge in dollar and convert to bitcoin. That is how it is done because every goods and services have their price or fee.

https://newsdirect.com/news/who-accepts-bitcoin-as-payment-10-best-online-stores-and-companies-that-accept-cryptocurrency-778803188

Bitcoin is money where the country legalizes Bitcoin as a legal means of payment. However, if it is used in a country that prohibits Bitcoin as a means of payment, it means that Bitcoin is not money, but a commodity or something else according to the laws and regulations of that country.

Just to be clear, Bitcoin is Money in El Salvador, they consider BTC as money in a legal way, but there are not many countries that follow this practice.

The fact that you call Bitcoin a decentralized pyramid scheme only shows you high levels of ignorance and i highly recommend you to understand what's a pyramid scheme to understand why Bitcoin is not one of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

It doesn't make much sense to try to have any kind of meaningful discussion with this troll who has been writing the same nonsense for years using various accounts, and he is especially nervous when the price of BTC rises, since he lives for the moment to see how the whole thing failed.

Writing that Bitcoin is used only for trading is complete nonsense, because there are so many online stores where you can pay for various goods and services with it, and there are also people who travel the world and pay exclusively with Bitcoin.

I know it doesn't make much sense to fight single-minded trolls, but anyone who has ever bought Bitcoin can spend it -> https://spending-bitcoin.com

Bro is living in his own imaginary world where bitcoin is only used for investments lololol. Wakey wakey eggs and bakey. The real world is already using bitcoin as a form of payment, and that alone is enough to ruin your whole wall of text that you prolly did with ChatGPT's heavy lifting. Maybe use a different argument other than "Bitcoin's not being used to purchase for shit huhuhu therefore it can't be considered money" When it couldn't be farther from the truth. From the get-go bitcoin has been used to pay for shit, ever remember about Laszlo and his pizza purchase? Or the millions of purchases made under bitcoin's economy? What of the country of El Salvador using bitcoin as a form of currency right now? We just gonna sweep that under the rug?

I'm sure almost everyone knows that Bitcoin is money or a transaction tool in the form of a new digital currency or you could say electronic money, and this digital currency is famous throughout the world.
And if a country legalizes it, Bitcoin will definitely become legal money like money that can be used as a medium of exchange like money in that country or as an alternative to money. And even though countries do not allow Bitcoin to be used as money, they can still carry out transactions using Bitcoin individually or secretly. And most people cannot use Bitcoin as a transaction tool like money, due to regulations and laws in each country.

And what is the purpose of the gold actually? Making jewellery? Gold has a similar nature to Bitcoin, but it's centralized while Bitcoin is not. Why do you think it has no purpose while people can pay using Bitcoin to buy goods and other things on the internet. Of course, it's a form of money, and you can buy many things using Bitcoin these days.

What about the stock market? What is the purpose of it? Just manipulating the rates and making money out of it? Your arguments does not make sense to me. Maybe because I have low IQ.

Neither of those are the crux of your argument.  You're deflecting from your own point.  The argument you made in the OP is that only the symbiotic relationship with banks can supposedly legitimise money.  But the primary reason Bitcoin even exists in the first place is because those very banks delegitimised themselves by being reckless and crashing the global economy they're meant to co-depend upon.  The very foundations of money proved to be rotten, yet you laud them for it and act as though anything without their involvement somehow doesn't count for anything.

You can't cry foul when they dropped the ball, prompting us to try something different.  How can you claim we're making a mistake purely because we eliminated one of the ingredients that caused fiat to fail?  In fact, all of the largest issues faced by this community occur when people try to emulate the traditional banking system and create another central point of failure.  That's when Exchanges implode because they pull the same sorts of fractional reserve chicanery as fiat banks do.

Bitcoin proves that not only can money exist without banks, but it's actually better for it.  Just look at the current cost-of-living crisis.  This is what always happens when you place all your faith in banks and governments.  Ever-decreasing purchasing power and ever-weaker currency.  That's baked into their design.  We're not copying that.  

From the very beginning you have an erroneous understanding of the subject of discussion. Money is not a commodity, a means of exchange for commodity.

And again. Money can't be a store of value due to the influence of inflation. Even in the old days, when money was in metal, governments carried out monetary reforms by issuing new coins and old money turned into just a piece of metal. Except when the coins were made of precious metals. Precious metals like gold or silver have always been and remain a store of value.

This is determined and decided by the market, that is, the commodity-money relations of market participants form precisely this “worth of money.”

The value of the bike will be higher the more you want it. Knowing about demand, sellers will increase the price. This is how the market works. Pay attention to the price of a bike out of season and in the summer season and you will notice the difference.

I'm tired of continuing to read this wall of text. Maybe you can learn to be more concise?

If currency is not anything used as medium of exchange,  so tell me what is your definition of currency? Their are so many features of currency which one of them is as medium of exchange which bitcoin has this feature and other better feature than other currencies. If you say a currency must be backed by government that means you are trying to say bitcoin is not a currency,  so far as bitcoin is solving the problem of people and its accepted by many these makes it a very good currency.  The quality bitcoin has as made it better than the currency back by the government.

uhhh huh??

You wrote a lot just to get this fundamental point completely wrong. When you start with false premises, and your goal is to make a wrong conclusion, well...your diatribe is what ya get.


You can use bitcoin to buy things by giving the seller bitcoin and getting the product in return. Same way as you use a dollar or yen or peso or pound or whatever to buy things by giving the seller whichever currency and getting the product in return. Bitcoin is money. This is very easy to understand. Not sure how you messed this one up in your head haha. Basically what you argued in your post is that money isn't money haha ;)

By the definition, currency is standardization of money in any form; and money is any item or record that is generally accepted as payment. Therefore currency could be anything you can use as a medium of exchange, if both end agreed to pay/exchange a cow for a chicken then it is a currency. I think this is a general misconception about the currency and money, I even confused these two at first honestly.

You are talking about country currency, well this one is regulated by the country's government to host and have an organize exchange and standardization. I can buy your car for my laptop as my currency, if you want to. Basically that's how currency works.

OP, Bitcoin is money, but if you say that is not a handy money, thats when no one will argue that fact, bitcoin is a digital money and it is been used for many stuff, the inflation of a things does not affect Bitcoin but it does affect fiat because fiat is a currency of a particular country and whenever a country is facing economic downtrend it drastically affects their currency because so money country will not be ready to invest in such a country that won't bring any return to them, if bitcoin is not money why is it a medium of exchange, why do we use it to purchase items online. I believe soon so many people will soon start accepting this currency openly and this will satisfy individuals' curiosity about it.

You are saying all this because people have created a connection to Bitcoin with Fiat money. If you think of Bitcoin as a unit that is 1 Bitcoin equals 1 Bitcoin then everything will become clear to you. Of course, we can use it as a mean of payment and extended for other things. Is it necessary for Bitcoin to become money? No! So what are we even talking about this?
And while you are talking about money, let's face it. Money is just a piece of paper and if person controlling its value decide that it is worthless then it will be worthless. It can be manipulated by the people who have the power.

We are able to exchange Bitcoin for other goods or services just as we can do with money. Bitcoin is bitcoin. I don't know why it needs to become money? You are talking about dumping it to someone else. When you are buying something with money aren't you dumping the worthless paper to someone else? How is this even different? Hope you answer this question.

I think you are a little confused here because BTC is considered money or not, but it is not purposeless. Bitcoin has given people freedom of finance. In the whitepaper of BTC that you can access from the Bitcoin.org website, the creator of BTC, Satoshi, stated that BTC is made for p2p decentralized transactions where one has to not comply with any of the strict and ambiguous rules of banks, which they can change according to their needs. Check history (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5471228.0). You will find out what I am talking about.

BTC does provide us with physical purpose, but not in your definition. I can buy those apples that you said have physical purpose, and I can buy that bicycle that also has physical purpose, like we can use it to travel long distances, etc. These are all physical purposes, but if we talk in the sense of money, like the dollar, that is also money but doesn't have any physical purpose. Instead, we can use them to make fire and heat ourselves.

BTC and fiat have become means of payment, which is not because at first things were exchanged like service for service or product for product. But now, for ease, money has been backed by the same amount of gold that we used to exchange back then, but now we have to include inflation too.

First, yes - Bitcoin sometimes is used for payments. Not often, but still far from never.

Second - gold is no longer used for payments, but it's still money - it's something that has value, has liquidity, retains its value, and is actually used as a store of value. Bitcoin shares these properties with gold.

Bitcoin could be overpriced because too many investors only buy it to sell later for a profit, but it's still very far from worthless - if Bitcoin's price was constant, it would still be owned by a lot of people who need its properties.

Trying to rap my head around this, I couldn't figure out any reason for this statement. I only came up with one question for you after thinking hard. The question is, what has the real money done that Bitcoin has not done? Value is placed on money as a means of exchange, the same as Bitcoin. You can stack up your Fiat in banks for the purpose of a fixed deposit with an expectation of profit; that's also what most centralized exchanges are practicing, but I will not advise you to save your Bitcoin on centralized exchanges. Some people accept Bitcoin as a means of payment, just like Fiat money. So, back to my question: what has Fiat money done that Bitcoin has not done? Feel free to quote me.

This is becoming bizarre. Literally all responders vehemently refuse to address the argument even when it was expressed in the simplest possible form. And they just talk about irrelevant stuff, do ad hominem attacks, or misrepresented the argument.

Let's me repeat the crux of the argument:

Due to the lack of a practical purpose whose fulfilment would generate a specific amount of benefit, there's no pivot for estimating how many bitcoins to accept for goods or services and it is impossible for market participants to perform a rational trade.

Just repeating the mantra: Bitcoin is money, Bitcoin is money, Bitcoin is money .... cannot change the above described reality.

 

I think Bitcoin is a better form of money than fiat because it is a kind of money that the value can't be manipulated. One of the reasons fiat do not have value is excessive printing of copies and this makes it to lose value . The fiat is a kind of money that is affected with by inflation.  Bitcoin is volatile which enables people to invest in it when the price is low to hodl till when the price is increase for good profit to be made . The value of bitcoin can't be compared to that of fiat, I think this makes it a good currency because it is playing a good role to investors financially.

This word salad doesn't look like a "simple reason".

Tell you what - I can use Bitcoin however the hell I want to use it. Whether that be by paying someone with it, or inscribing random files like JPEGs and junk text with something like BRC-20 (although I do not find that idea interesting), or by sending a message to somebody on the blockchain using OP_RETURN.

You cannot dictate what other people use their coins for, and your pseudo-analysis doesn't change that.

stones, metals, gold, money it is a means of exchange depending on where it is widely accepted. you said that bitcoin is not money and that is very true, but it is a means of exchange used by users on the bitcoin network and it is accepted by everyone. whatever your arguments about bitcoin, people will still say that it is a means of exchange and not money.

and bitcoin is a pyramid scheme? what about money, gold, diamonds? is it not a pyramid scheme created by the government? it's all just a bunch of paper and rocks, what makes it valuable is that it's regulated and needed by people and it takes effort to get it. and this also applies to bitcoin, it is decentralized and it is not easy to mine bitcoin and because the amount is limited and in line with people's demand for it makes it valuable and traded to this day.

It's okay if you keep saying bitcoin is not money. But it's also okay if people think bitcoin is money. Each person will certainly stick to their opinion.
But we would probably agree that Bitcoin is a digital currency that is (for the time being, more usable on the internet) than in offline life.
There may be countries that have legalized Bitcoin, but that doesn't mean the government uses bitcoin as currency because that country has its own currency.
Bitcoin may become a currency when all countries recognize bitcoin as a currency so that bitcoin can be used to buy goods offline and online.

For now, it is better to make bitcoin a new investment alongside gold. We prefer to save bitcoins rather than spend them.
To use bitcoin as money or currency, it may require approval from all countries.

Without a doubt, anything can be used as payment if its accepted by a group of people, from bitcoin to valuable metals. Bitcoin is valuable because there arent many of them and making them is hard, just like gold and diamonds are valuable because they are hard to get.

But it seems strange to compare traditional assets like gold and fiat currencies to a pyramid scam. These are assets that are backed by governments and financial institutions and whose value has been stabled over hundreds of years of trade and business. But the value of bitcoin changes wildly because it is based on supply and demand. Isnt this lack of uniformity a big departure from what you'd expect from a "means of exchange"?

This discussion will never end because every time a new person starts to like Bitcoin and wants to own it, they will continue to ask questions and discuss things related to its volatility and speculative nature. Although on the one hand, new people who are interested in Bitcoin have also understood things related to digital assets, stores of value, and decentralized currency in Bitcoin so they are starting to believe in it for the long term for the investment sector. This is something that is quite normal to be discussed and debated normally because everyone needs to know all these things before there is a feeling of regret after owning any asset, including Bitcoin.

I also disagree with you on this. Now are you telling us that trade by barter is a Currency? franky1 I know that you know what you are saying but you were in  hurry or thinking of another thing to do so you missed what you wanted to say. Currency is not anything but it is a well designed paper or coin that is use to exchange goods and services. And from your definition yam with sugarcane exchange is also a Currency and that is wrong. Trade by barter is not a Currency but it is goods to goods exchange. As for the Op. Wow!! This is the second time I am seeing someone that doesn't understand the meaning of bitcoin and a anti bitcoin in the forum. For your information all the exchange you mentioned and the definition of Currency and the all the features of money and currency are found in bitcoin. Any unit of money you used in buying things, bitcoin can also be used to bitcoin that thing with the same price. Example. If you you used $20 to buy something, you can use 0.0006 bitcoin  to pay for that thing if the seller accepting bitcoin. So bitcoin automatically a Currency and nothing can change that fact. Please don't confused yourself and other newbies.

What is your basis for what you said here? So for you, Bitcoin is not money, right? Bitcoin is not the same as physical money, but it is still money for me, which is why it is called digital currency.

The decentralization of Bitcoin is its uniqueness compared to fiat, where it was created at the central bank. Whereas Bitcoin is not related to any bank, And I am pretty sure you know that too somehow; I just don't understand why you say that. Or maybe you just have the wrong understanding of Bitcoin.

Maybe you're the one mistaken this together, all you have said are part of what you can discover with bitcoin, because it has a multiple application in the financial economy, fiat money couldn't perform as how far bitcoin could help in the economic performance, bitcoin is a digital currency, an asset, medium of exchages, store of value, profitable investment and many more other benefits which fiat couldn't achieve giving.

Again, you're misrepresenting your own argument.  You are artificially imposing the condition that the only way money can supposedly have a "benefit" is if it is returned to banks.  See your words here:


Your (absurd) assertion is that money is only useful if banks are involved.  That is the crux of your argument.  So quit moving the goalposts.  It's pretty clear that none of us accept that premise.  Which is why you're not convincing anyone.


Looking forward to your next account in a few months time and we'll do this merry little dance again.   :P

When you're using a currency, you don't normally care about its value. One fiat currency can have a lot less purchasing power than a different fiat currency, but if you're in a country there one is used and the other isn't, you'll use the one with less purchasing power because what matters is its liquidity, not purpose. I don't think the whole 'return to the banks' purpose bit is convincing.
When you buy a bicycle for 100 units, you need to be sure that you'll be able to exchange these 100 units for something else, that people will be willing to take it. Exchanging Bitcoin for goods directly can be tricky, but selling BTC for something else is really simple, so it does have high liquidity and can function as a medium of exchange.

I disagree with you, Based on your definition of money Because Bitcoin possesses such characteristics as a medium of exchange and also as a store of value you mentioned and as well categorized as a commodity by SEC.  Money in other terms can be defined as a belief system that works, Do people believe and trust in the Bitcoin network or as a system that works? The answer is Affirmative,  Bitcoin is a revolutionary internet form of money and people use Bitcoin to trade goods and services both running local and international transactions, just as the traditional fiat monetary system

A lot of incorrect things you said in your post I don't even know where to start from. Normally I don't reply post like this but this time I'm going to.

Trying to use the fact that 10,000 Bitcoin bought only a pizza a while ago and today it could make you a millionaire is a very lame attempt.
Is the worth of a thousand dollars in the 90s the same value it is today? What $1000 can afford then, is not the same thing it can afford now. The difference is, in the case of Bitcoin, it's value appreciated because it wasn't affected with inflation like you're lovely fiat. The value of currencies is always fluctuating same as Bitcoin.

If you had said Bitcoin is not legal tender because it has not been accepted legally, then you'll have a point, but Bitcoin belongs to no government in particular so nobody can make it legal tender world wide. They can only accept it as legal tender in their countries, like El Salvador. There as people who accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange.

Also, trying to say money is only money if it can be returned to the banks is quite ridiculous and laughable. So assuming there were no banks the there will be no money?

I really spent a lot of time reading your article where in the end you said bitcoin is a pyramid scheme lol

to understand bitcoin, you won't be able to just use a general understanding of money, bitcoin is future money which means money and also an investment tool. Bitcoin is like gold, even though it has no physical form, every bitcoin that is traded is recorded on the blockchain ledger. always remember that a pyramid scheme or what is called a ponzi scheme will not have fluctuations in value, so it is only a fool who classifies bitcoin as one of the types of pyramid schemes lol.

JamesNZ - say whatever you want to say, but anything misleading won't be easily believed here. Everyone here believes that bitcoin is the one that qualifies as a currency - then you come along and reverse that fact. It's clear you've already lost before the game - someone that doesn't need to shout to say you are wrong and misleading.

Umm, You can't buy anything if you don't trade your fiat money, yes?  The act of buying and selling commodities is trading.  Money is use for that, same goes with Bitcoin.  If we pay our bills with Bitcoin, we trade Bitcoin for the services.  If we buy candies with Bitcoin, we trade Bitcoin for that chocolate.  Since some merchant does not accept BTC directly(same goes with local currencies), we convert/trade our Bitcoin to fiat that is internationally recognized to purchase things.  Bitcoin having the feature of being used as currency to purchase and buy things, and being globally recognized to be traded with fiat money, isn't that enough proof that Bitcoin can be use for concrete and practical use?

source (https://www.investopedia.com/insights/what-is-money/)

I am still waiting for someone to address my argument:

Due to the lack of a practical purpose whose fulfilment would generate a specific amount of benefit, there's no pivot for estimating how many bitcoins to accept for goods or services and it is impossible for market participants to perform a rational trade.

But for some odd reason, everyone vehemently refuse to address it. It's hilariously funny to watch this show.

Well, as convincing enough as this looks, I definitely will want to agree with you that bitcoin is not money per say, in general terms though, most especially, when we try to look at what the true definition of money is.
But coming back to other vices, Bitcoin is still a medium of exchange and an asset that can be invested in, and i completely disagree that bitcoin is a pyramid style scheme, this argument of yours is completely false
Think about investing in gold, think about investing in shares, think about investing in real estate, think about investing in landed properties, houses, think about investing in precious stones and metals like silver, diamond and the likes. All this I mentioned requires new investors for previous investors to get out in profit, does this make all of them a pyramid scheme? i need a NO or a YES answer from you.
if your answer is NO, then it means bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme, but if your answer is YES, then, indeed, Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme to you and people with the same mindset as you.

Why is it so hard for you people to address the actual argument? If the OP is to complex for you to comprehend, if the summary is to complex, if one sentence is to complex, let me express the argument in a single word: purpose.

A pyramid scheme means investing purposeful items, and being unable to return such items without new investors. Real estate, precious stones and metals are purposeful so you don't need new investors to get purposeful items back - you already have them.

Money means purposeful item because the fulfilment of a purpose generates a specific amount of benefit that is then compared with the amount of benefit generated by good and services.

Virtual points (bitcoins) that a protocol assigned to an address have no purpose that can be fulfilled. So, if you trade something purposeful for these points, by definition, you need new investors to give you something purposeful - and that's pyramid-style scheme. Also, due to the lack of a purpose there's no pivot for comparing these points with goods and services which is why they are not money.

Can you now start addressing the argument or a single word is to complex as well?

That's not true. People around the world are using Bitcoin to buy houses, properties, groceries, and even cars as some companies are now accepting Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies through third-party payment gateways, if I remember correctly, Honda company is doing that now. So, what you say isn't correct, Bitcoin isn't purposeless nor it's a pyramid scheme because if you can use Bitcoin to pay for buying some good or a service, you are basically using it like money, and money does have a purpose.

Even if Bitcoin isn't money, yet, since governments aren't legalizing the use of Bitcoin which is what's required for it to be called money, it still has a purpose, it provides an opportunity for the unbanked to be their own bank and be able to store their own wealth safely and in a decentralized manner.

All your arguments were addressed numerous times before and every time you come back with yet another alt sharing the same old stuff. What I don't understand is how are you not bored with it and do you really believe that you will change anyone's opinion here?


I do agree that its funny to watch this show but not for the reasons you might think.  :D

If you find it funny to watch yourself make a fool of yourself, then you can continue to enjoy it as much as you want. If I were you, I would seek professional help, considering that for years you have been trying to prove something about which you obviously do not have enough knowledge, and you are not intelligent enough to remember the passwords of your old BTT accounts, but you create new ones and write the same nonsense.

The only thing we can hope for is that at some point you will have to get off the pocket money that mom and dad give you and that you will have to start earning a living - and then maybe you will understand some things and won't have too much time for nonsense.

Well, first and foremost, where is this argument heading to actually? What exactly do you want to achieve with it?
If for example, we all decide to agree with you now, then what? Are you going to tell us all to sell our bitcoins and abandon it because you believe it's not purposeful? Or because you believe is a pyramid-style scheme type of investment?

Well, this argument is baseless, and I believe there are high market professionals who have invested a lot of time to study bitcoin, and at the end of the day, they end up investing heavily in it, if they saw that bitcoin has no purpose, and it's a pyramid-style scheme as you called it, they wouldn't invest, and maybe if the world does not see bitcoin as important, it wouldn't be worth over $30,000 dollars today.

You have probably made up your mind, it's useless trying to convince you.

I sense some hostility against bitcoins, but this your opinion of bitcoin is based on lack of understanding.

Bitcoin is no way a pyramid scheme, it is very far and different from it and shares no attribute that you can say is similar to pyramid schemes.

Some attributes of Pyramid schemes are;_{source (https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/economics/pyramid-scheme/)}
If you invest in bitcoins, you do not need to bring two or any required number of persons. You can talk to people to try out this opportunity, but you are not under any form of pressure for them to join under you.

HODL as long as you can, no one told you that you were going to be rich in two weeks when you invest in bitcoins.

How do you know Bitcoin serves no purpose? If you believe fiat money serves a purpose, you will believe Bitcoin does as well, though in a more innovative way. First of all, Bitcoin provides something that fiat money does not: security of people's funds. If you have Bitcoin, you can be sure that you are safe as long as you keep the private key/passphrase correctly; unlike fiat, you cannot physically hold a large amount because it will endanger your life. Second, it will be simpler to pay for or receive goods without revealing your identity. In this manner, the bad guys have no chance with you.

Currency can be interpreted as a medium of exchange used by all people and one country's currency is different from another country's currency. The essence of currency can be seen as a medium of exchange authorized by a controlled government and we are the only owners who can make payments for any purchases. Bitcoin is not a physical currency and its perfection cannot be manipulated with current amounts and bitcoin is a currency for the owner who owns it and cannot be controlled by anyone.

The pyramid scheme that I understand is different from the bitcoin system and we are more familiar with the pyramid system as a fraud involving a multi-level marketing system. So trying to generalize the general level for both is a mistake in thinking because when you own bitcoin you are the one who manages it.

I'm guessing they suffer from the same personality disorder as other forum trolls like franky1.  Aside from the multiple accounts, the similarities between them are striking.  They base every argument they've ever made on fanciful notions that only exist in their imagination.  No one accepts their flawed premise, so they set themselves on repeat like a braindead parrot, somehow expecting a different outcome.  And then getting pissy when no one takes them seriously.  Same toxic behaviour.

Seems the world is full of narcissistic sociopaths with too much spare time on their hands.

Ain't you contradicting yourself here?

Money is anything that is generally accepted by the people and serves as medium of exchange,  store of value and unit of account.  Bitcoin is not purposeless,  it is a commodity money because it has intrinsic value. While it serves as a means of exchange,  it is also serving as an investment for others. For anything to be called money,  it should be able to meet the following functions.

• means of exchange
• store of value
• unit of account

Bitcoin has met the above criteria. Bitcoin can be used to make payments. El Salvador has already adopted it and it is working perfectly fine. It is obviously a store of value,  this is why it is called the digital gold. Bitcoin is highly divisible which means, it can serve as a unit of account. Bitcoin is a digital currency!

I do not agree with you that bitcoin is purposeless.  The only challenge bitcoin is having right now is general acceptance.

The whole discussion looks like a conspiracy theory to me because at most what the opsares trying to put out is total baseless arguments and comparisons that have nothing to prove or show for it at most and this sounds liketotal fundss, just a run through ops history made me realize that this topic is just one of the many of it type checking out by the ops.


It either the ops lack the requisite knowledge about what he is putting up here and there or he is deliberately doing so to gain attention, but either of the two is not a good approach for the ops, bitcoin vs money or Bitcoin is money regardless of which one comes first makesake no difference.

It seems you have not understand what is bitcoin and what is money, a money is used for buying of goods and services why bitcoin is something we use for buying of goods and services, whatever money does is what bitcoin can do, its because bitcoin is not centralized and that is why some of you is condemning bitcoin as if is not a currency like fiat currency, have you asked yourself why bitcoin can be use in exchange of other items, so I think we need to change from condemning bitcoin as not a currency, it's a currency but it has not being legalized generally

First! What is Money? Money is a medium of exchange and store of value that is widely accepted in transactions for goods, services, or the settlement of debts. Money can have various forms, like physical currency (coins and banknotes) or digital representations (bank deposits and cryptocurrencies) which are virtual. Money doesn't have to be paper; as long as you can use it to pay for something (deposited money in the bank or cryptocurrency), it is Money. Two main features of money I'd like to point out are Divisibility and Portability, these are common with any currency. Bitcoin is just as Divisible (in fact even more divisible than the currency of any nation, and that even makes it more money-like) as local currencies. It is equally as portable (even more) as other currencies. Additionally, you can buy or sell it just like you can do with any other currency. What then do you mean by saying Bitcoin is not Money? Cause that sounds to me like saying Rottweilers are not dogs (just because you got too used to Chihuahuas)  ;D

So, from what you are saying, it doesnt really have an actual purpose? But then why is it even a thing that exists? I dont get it - why do folks use something that doesnt have a real purpose?

Are you saying Bitcoin isnt even a real thing at all? That it is just made up numbers or something? Im lost here and  it seems to exist since people use it, but you are saying it has no purpose.  Help me wrap my head around how something can exist but not have an underlying reason for existing in the first place.  The whole concept is confusing to me.

OP is a troll and ban evader who is exploiting the fact that forum stuff is not easy on banning so he can continue with his little scheme of showing up few times per year with a new account, spreading his nonsense and enjoying the attention he gets every time.

What people here don't understand is that it's pointless to try have any kind of serious conversation because he is not interested in that at all.

Everyone refuses to address what you said because your claim lacks a good sense of Bitcoin understanding and if anyone in their right sense tries to convince you of something you never agree on or tries to accept the fact then such person is making a fool of him/herself.
Based on your claim Bitcoin is not money but you said "Money is defined as a commodity that can be used to buy any other commodity. Or as a medium of exchange, a store of value and a unit of account. " which is all a potential BTC has.

No better fact put up, just some blind argument with no defined purpose for the thread. It makes me remember an old friend from my childhood who would always say that without the government and the rules that govern human rights, a country would be very peaceful and do so well. He only blatantly says it, but there is nothing reasonable to back it up. I assume OP just came up with this from somewhere, and without doing any research or inquiry, he just blatantly opened the topic. Why there are other reasonable arguments to raise this dumb one is what he can think of. More like a newbie who's just in the space and claiming to know something they don't actually know.

Satoshi himself defines bitcoin as "purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash", the fact that there is trading behind it is just part of the process. I don't understand why you say that bitcoin can't be used for concrete cases besides being traded: there are plenty of business that accept bitcoin, just because is not as popular as cash or credit cards doesn't mean that can't be used. Let's not forget that in was created not even 15 years, what do you expect?

You have started 3 threads and all are against Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies and favoring FIAT

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;threads;u=3557311;sa=showPosts

I don't know what's your problem against crypto and why you are still here , don't you have any plans
of finding your path? because like all your concerns are not for this forum and we are not caring about your points because no
matter what you say we will continue supporting and using Bitcoin.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
this says according to Forbes :

Is Bitcoin a kind of money? Economists say that money performs three functions. It serves as:

1- A unit of account: It helps people understand how much wealth they have.
2- A medium of exchange: People use it to facilitate trade, to carry out transactions.
3- A store of value: People feel comfortable holding their wealth in it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rmiller/2021/03/23/bitcoin-is-a-cryptocurrency-but-is-it-money/?sh=47737e5d1dda

OP, you've just confused yourself into a mess haha.

Just saying the word 'purpose' a lot doesn't make an argument ;p
Referring to other currencies as "money" and then referring to bitcoin as "virtual points" also isn't an argument. Fiat currency in a bank account would also be "virtual points".

You seem to not understand the basic point of money. Money in and of itself isn't a "purposeful item", as you suggest it is. Money is a non-perishable placeholder for goods/services.

The point of money is to hold some value (though the value may go up or down over time due to market/economic forces) so it can at any time be traded with others for goods or services. Whether you use bitcoin or USD or pesos or yen or euros or whatever, it all works the same way. Money is (1) a placeholder for value (2) to trade for good or services. This operates the exact same way no matter what currency you use. It doesn't change based on the specific currency because it has nothing to do with the specific currency. Money is a concept. It always works like this. Bitcoin, like all those other currencies, is an implementation of the concept of money.

Specific implementations of the concept of money (a currency) can be better or worse. Bitcoin happens to be a very good money by design. How good any individual fiat currency is depends on the strength and stability of the nation's economy and government, but over the long term they are pretty weak because their supply is entirely controlled by people rather than by essentially immutable nature (gold) or an immutable protocol (bitcoin).

And the primary way this concept of money works is through acceptance/liquidity. If nobody accepts that a dollar is worth a certain amount of value then it won't work as an implementation of money. Bitcoin has wide stable global acceptance to be worth its value at every second of every day. There are many billions of dollars of volume on crypto exchanges proving this every single day. If it was very hard to trade USD for goods or services or other currencies it wouldn't really be working as a currency, because it wouldn't have any liquidity if you literally can't use it in any way. Same as if you got some bitcoin and it was very difficult to exchange it in any way (no liquidity) it wouldn't really be working as a currency. No liquidity means no desire to accept it. But there are millions of people everyday willing to accept bitcoin in exchange for other currencies or other cryptos, and in some places already in exchange for goods and services.

In your language of "purpose", bitcoin has every bit the purpose as any other currency - it is widely accepted to be a certain value, widely desired by others so it has liquidity, and is a placeholder for value to trade at a later time.

Let me use your words exactly, purposeless means aimless, meaningless but Bitcoin does have aim, its aim is to be used as a decentralized P2P payment method and although it hasn't fully achieved this when it comes to adoption but that doesn't mean people aren't using it as a P2P payment currency. Just because we see more of centralized services dominating the industry doesn't mean we don't have those using Bitcoin as it was intended to be used. What is money if I may ask, according to google; (money is a current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes.) Isn't Bitcoin been used as a medium of exchange or isn't that it's purposes?, the population using Bitcoin as a means of exchange isn't large but that doesn't mean it isn't been used. It has been legally accepted in some countries as a medium of exchange while in other countries although it isn't been legalized but still it's been ued as we have services accepting Bitcoin as a means of payment.


That's just your mindset and not the reality, if we're talking about ponzi schemes then fiat is more of a ponzi scheme. Bitcoin is a digital currency and its investment features are just like any other currency trading in the market. People invest in USD and hold it and for you to make profits they have to sell to the new investors coming into the market. People buy stocks and sell to new investors coming into the market. When it's an investment the earlier buyers sells to others coming into the market later and that's just how it works. Currencies can be used as an Investment too so that's what is just happening with Bitcoin. Ponzi scheme businesses don't have any utility but rely on new users to continue operating but Bitcoin don't rely on new users as it can be traded over and over again, new users are just an additional bonus that increase the adoption.

I agree. I guess there is something with their minds about doing posts like that, which is that we know what the outcome will be. This is a cryptocurrency forum or a bitcoin-related forum, and they hope that anyone will take their side just because they have a long post saying sh*t about bitcoin and still pursuing others that bitcoin is not money. It is a morey in the form of digital currency. I guess he is one of the boomers who can't accept the advancement of technology and how powerful bitcoin is right now.

If bitcoin is not truly money, then why have many people invested in it and gotten a profit? Or have many millionaires gotten rich because of bitcoin? It may not be the money we used like fiat, but that's because bitcoin is the new or future money and currency. If they don't want to consider bitcoin money, then let them be; they are just missing out on a big opportunity.

Let's me help you because I see you have problems with understanding the basics concepts of reality. Consider this experiment. Suppose you are an extremely rich person and you pay off all the current participants of the Bitcoin pyramid scheme. Or as you people would say, you buy all the bitcoins in circulation.With the current prices that's 692,167,490,070 USD. After that all the Bitcoin trading stops.

Now, if Bitcoin is purposeful that means you would somehow have to use it to help people or yourself, that is, get some kind of benefit from your bitcoins. So, can you do that? You've just spent a tone of money and now you hold all the bitcoins. What can you do with your purchase? Well, you cannot do a damn thing. You just watch number 19,528,325 on the screen and that's it. Your bitcoins are completely useless and purposeless.

But now let's apply our experiment to something purposeful. Food. Suppose you bought food for $692,167,490,070 USD. With such a purchase you could feed a lot of hungry people for a long time. That's what it means for something to have a purpose in reality - it can benefit people. You see how simple it is? What about euros? What if you bought euros for $692,167,490,070 USD? Well, euros are issued as debt owed to the banks. Their purpose is to be returned to the banks. That means that with your purchase you could make a lot of people happy by paying off their loan debt. You could save them from foreclosures upon their property. That's what it means for something to have a purpose in reality - it can benefit people. Purpose is not something that you can come up with in your imagination. No matter what you say about Bitcoin, no matter think about Bitcoin, in reality, Bitcoin is still purposeless, worthless and useless. It always was and it always will be.

Additionally central african republic joined el salvador as the countries to acknowledge bitcoin as a currency even with only these two countries that recognize bitcoin as their country’s currency there’s still a lot of countries that recognize bitcoin legally such as the us, canada, eu, france, and australia.

In the future there will also be more countries that will follow in the footsteps of all these countries in entrusting Bitcoin as a legal currency in their respective countries. Because the interest of many countries really depends on the progress of countries that have already adopted Bitcoin, such as the Central African Republic and El Salvador. This will be very possible because I am sure there are many people from different countries who are very interested in Bitcoin and hope that Bitcoin can become a legal currency in all countries in the world.

If you can't accept other user arguments it means you need to grow your skin thicker. Most of users are correct, you're the one who understand it incorrectly.

1 BTC = 1 BTC similar to 1 USD = 1 USD.

Seems you're still not aware, Central African Republic (https://www.centralbanking.com/central-banks/currency/digital-currencies/7956294/car-to-drop-crypto-as-legal-tender) is no longer accepting Bitcoin as legal tender.

For a complete list, you can check this site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cryptocurrency_by_country_or_territory

I have bought smartphone with Bitcoin, I have also bought an LG 32 inches Television with Bitcoin too, and there are many online store who accept the use of Bitcoin for buying goods and paying for services rendered. So what other kind of concrete practical purpose do you need more than what I have just explained above? Because if Bitcoin wasn't money, nobody will be investing in it, Bitcoin is both a money and an asset, which is why it was able to dominate both gold and fiat currencies when it comes to long term investment. So please, if you don't know much about Bitcoin, it's better to ask questions, than floating with your superficial level of knowledge.

Exactly the same way a person who owns fiat can not do any other thing by give it to the next person in exchange of goods and services

The same way the value of an item appreciates with time, that's exactly what happened to this Bitcoin, which fiat of not an exception to it, because the number of items $100 could buy for you 10years ago will definitely not be the same today, as the price of goods have skyrocketed (i.e the value of the fiat depreciated), unlike Bitcoin whose value appreciated massively.

Yep! And the Earth is also flat and the lizard people rule. So, what else is new?

So while healthy skepticism is always good, anyone who just dismisses Bitcoin as some scheme or fad isn't really looking at the full pictur.  At this point, its clear Bitcoin is here to stay as a legitimate financial asset. Therefore, your personal opinion about its usefulness has no priority over the opinion of millions of other people.

That's because people here are finally realizing that there's no point having a serious discussion with you because you didn't come here to discuss with an open mind but instead to troll and have fun.

You are not without the purpose though as you are helping many members to fill their signature quotas and earn some bitcoin they can spend on some very real things that can be purchased with it. So please continue.  ;D

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency that does not have a country agreement or government fixed price like fiat currency. Because it's decentralized, every bitcoin holds the same value, you can use it as a stable value.  Need to think deeply Like every currency, Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency or digital currency created using a distributed ledger technology (blockchain). It is the most well-known cryptocurrency and allows transactions between people using a secure and reciprocal exchange. In this situation, it cannot be a currency, since its pass has no physical form and is not regulated by any government or central system.

If Bitcoin is not money, I wonder what then is money. Bitcoin have all the attributes of money and accepted by a large number of people probably bigger than the population of many countries. Every country have their currency that remain a legal tender and medium of exchange within their jurisdiction and to use a countries currency in another country requires it be exchanged via the agencies responsible for this as their business. This is how the cryptocurrency exchanges function for the digital world; they exchange Bitcoin for any other currency.  If I move to Canada, I have to change my currency to the Canadian Dollar that is the accepted currency within Canada.

As long as there are many people that recognise Bitcoin as a means of payment for goods and services, it is indeed money.

Associating Bitcoin to Ponzi scheme seems like one of those fud that will fade away soon.

Dude your thread "is still purposeless, worthless and useless. It always was and it always will be."

Op please note your own words are a perfect description of your thread. Thanks for writing it up so well. ;D

I just added a small correction.

An important argument that Bitcoin is not money is that if Bitcoin were money, the supply of Bitcoin would increase every year like money. The central bank prints money every year with special permission but can never supply more than the fixed supply of bitcoins. So money has inflation but Bitcoin has no inflation. Bitcoin takes off where money fails. The value of money decreases day by day but the value and popularity of Bitcoin increases with time.

Money is simply understood as a unit of measurement, used to exchange goods, so any asset that performs those functions can be called money. What fiat money can do, bitcoin can do too, so if bitcoin is not money, then what is bitcoin? Just because the government doesn't consider bitcoin a currency doesn't mean bitcoin isn't a currency.

Fiat is a centralized currency and controlled by the government, they use money to maintain the economy but when things get out of control they have no way to deal with it and printing money is the only way they can do it. That causes severe inflation, while bitcoin is a decentralized currency and it was created to overcome the problems that fiat currencies face.

OP is simply making the argument that money needs to have intrinsic value in order to be money. That the money needs to have some other purpose outside of being used as a means of exchange.

I strongly disagree.

I would argue that apples make a poor means of exchange. I don't want to dump 5 truckloads of apples at the dealership to buy my next car.

By far, in human history, the most popular money has been good and silver. And those basically have had no real purpose other than being money until recently. And I have to stress that wearing gold jewelry is completely useless unless you want to show of how much money you have.

Not to mention fiat which has absolutely no value outside if being money. Unless you run out of toilet paper, I suppose.

All it takes for something to be used as money is for you and me to agree it has value. If you sell your bike to me, and I offer you 100 units of whatever, if you don't recognize that my units have value, than there is no deal.

My Canadian $ is worthless in Honduras. Your US $ is worthless in Russia or North Korea. But Bitcoin has value anywhere you go in the world. If you don't think it has value, you get to keep your bike and I keep my Bitcoin. Simple as that.

I can't use bitcoin as money in my country, especially in the real world, but bitcoin is a high-value asset. Bitcoin is money in other countries, it has been legalized and adopted everywhere. Bitcoin is not required to be a legal currency in all of country in the world, but it is more likely to be accepted as the best payment option with various advantages compared to other payments. You don't need to queue for hours at the bank in the middle of rush hour to send more money across borders, bitcoin is a great option to choose.

Bitcoin is a currency in another country, but you are not required to recognize it as currency. Even without recognizing it as money, I think you can still use it as a means of online payment wherever Bitcoin is accepted. It's just that, if you don't recognize it as money then I have no reason why you should debate it with those who have accepted it as currency.

Practical purpose => whatever people want to sell to the public.

how many bitcoins to accept for goods or services => defined by the exchange rates. Or, how many coins are being bought at one particular time.

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It is meaningless to go around and talk about "buying the entire supply of bitcoins" because nobody has 600 billion dollars in CASH. Hell, the entire Rothschild family doesn't even have 600 billion together.

Some groups have 600 billion dollars if you include illiquid assets that cannot be sold easily like real estate and stocks. You're trying to tell me that somebody can just dump these assets on the market to get enough money? That's not going to happen, ever, because 1) the rich don't want to be taxed on it, 2) it will crash the global economy in the process, for what? Just to buy all bitcoins?

It's sad to hear that bitcoin isn't accepted as money in your country. This kind of mistake goes against the very idea of decentralized banking systems being smart. Indeed, Bitcoin gets rid of the need for boring and old-fashioned things like waiting in line at banks. It also has many other perks that traditional payment systems don't have. It's really hard to understand why people don't want to fully embrace it.

But you were smart to see that bitcoin has value as an object and a possible way to pay for things online. No matter how things stand with crypto in your country, the world is steadily moving toward accepting it, which is clearly changing the financial world. People who stubbornly refuse to admit it are only delaying the eventual change in the way money works.

      -   I don't believe that Bitcoin is not money because I can exchange the bitcoin I earn from stablecoins to fiat here in our country to a local wallet that also accepts exchange via p2p.

If there is any understanding that the OP has in the matter we are talking about, then Bitcoin does not give a guarantee that it will be able to give profit to anyone because it depends on the decision that we will make so that we can have a profit via Bitcoin.

This dude just won't quit! I've seen him around here for years, posting the same tired nonsense from different accounts. 

He'll make a new profile when he gets banned or tagged, but anyone whos been here a while can tell it's the same person.  His writing style and fixation on certain topics gives him away every time.

We've seen him use fxsurfer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1188943), antikvark (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2678368), Antithesis (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3336205), Snowshow (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3456891) and probably more and  don't waste your time responding - he just wants the attention.  Better to ignore repetitive trolls and not feed their need for attention and drama.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your assessment of Bitcoins. Why do you think that Bitcoin can't be used for any real-life purposes besides being traded? There are already people who receive their salary in Bitcoins and use it to pay for a lot of things. Many ecommerce shops accept Bitcoin as a form of payment and as long as the number of vendors keeps increasing every year that accept Bitcoin we are on the right track. It might not be comparable to Fiat currencies that everybody is going to accept in a country, but that is just a matter of time to get there. Even some countries like El Salvador now accepts Bitcoin as a legal tender. So, any Bitcoin millionaire could relocate to El Salvador and only live by owning crypto currencies. Being traded is part of any big currency and it's not what defines Bitcoin, it just comes with the size of the market.

Hard to explain something to close minded people so better let them believe what they think about bitcoin since maybe they are not doing a good research about it that's the reason why that statement always come up on their mind. If some people telling me like bitcoin is scam, not a currency and other more they negatively call it I will just simply ignore them since at the end of the day they are the one who miss the opportunity to gain with bitcoins and for sure they will get jealous with us especially if there's a big change happened to our life on financial state by the help of bitcoin which they called scam. For sure this type of guys will realize the importance of bitcoin so no need to explain something since they are the only one who can answer those questions in their minds.

It's not an asset, it's not money because it cannot fullfil a purpose to generate a specific amount of benefit to holders. It's a modern-day investment pyramid where you can get your investment of useful items back only from new investors. Regardless of how nicely you portray Bitcoin to attract new investors that fact won't change.
I don't think that. You don't think that. We both know that virtual points that a protocol assigned to online addresses cannot fullfil a purpose. That's why they have to be dumped on someone else.

So, you think all things got to have some official purpose?  Nah, I don't think so! Sometimes stuff just exists cuz people like how it looks or it's fun or whatever and  the whole idea of purpose is kinda subjective anyway and means different stuff to different folks.  When you look at the big picture of life and everything, some say trying to figure out your purpose is a basic human thing to do, but that doesn't mean every single thing in the universe has got to have a cosmic purpose or whatever.  I mean, take a pretty waterfall for example.  Its just water going over some rocks - doesn't really do anything.  But people enjoy looking at it and hearing the sound of water.  It exists for its own sake.  Or dancing - it don't accomplish anything concrete necessarily but people do it cuz it's fun and it feels good.  Life is messy and complicated like that.

The same goes for Bitcoin.  Who's to say it must serve some grand purpose? Perhaps we're just here for the joy of watching those pretty numbers dance on our screens.  :D

guys I"m pretty sure OP is a super troll cuz people here have endlessly refuted the nonsense he keeps repeating here and he just still keeps repeating it. May as well let this thread die since it is clearly not a serious argument.

If stuff just exists cuz people like how it looks then that stuff has aesthetic purpose. It creates a specific amount of benefit and one can estimate that benefit with benefits provided by other products to exchange stuff rationally. However, virtual points that some protocol attributed to online addresses have no purpose that can be fulfilled. They are just means to inform you that you joined investment pyramid in which you invest purposeful stuff and then wait for new investors to give you more such stuff. It hilarious how you managed to create the whole religion from that pyramid.

Yes, that's it!  Bitcoin serves an aesthetic purpose, at least for me – can't speak for everyone else. It's all about finding beauty in those numbers. Glad we got that sorted out!


Hey there! Mocking someone's religion ain't cool. It's basically a form of religious discrimination.

You're right though, the OP here is bashing Bitcoin the most we can't ever accept. This may have created a topic like this to ruin the beauty of Bitcoin, so I think the OP's slanderous thread should be locked. He made a post with all purposeless and absurd which I find disturbing. The OP is now trying to troll by saying all the nonsense so the thread should be locked.

Hahaha. Invisible thing serves an aesthetic purpose. Wow. That's new. I've heard a lot of stupidity from crypto bros but this takes the cake. You people need to seek professional help.

You walked  right into that, didn't you? Hahahaha!

Visual aesthetic is quite common, but yes, invisible things can serve an aesthetic purpose as well.  Music is a perfect example - you listen to it, not look at it. But even abstract concepts and ideas, like math for example, can be aesthetically pleasing if it's elegant and well-structured.

As for calling you stupid, I wouldn't go that way.  You just seem like you don't know a lot about this topic. I'm always trying to educate myself more on things I don't understand well. You should try it.

I see you're doubling down on stupidity. Aesthetics is related to senses. You must see, hear, smell, or touch something to be able to talk about aesthetics. Invisible virtual points that some protocol attributed to online addresses have nothing to do with aesthetics. They are just records of participation in an investment pyramid where you pay in purposeful items and then wait for new contributors to get such items back. It's not stupid to join that - it's just greed or ignorance. But claiming that records of participation in it serve aesthetic purpose is the stupidity at its best.

Oh, so now you're finally catching on that invisible things can serve an aesthetic purpose? Well, I appreciate your newfound common sense. Maybe next time, you'll actually think before you speak.  ;)


Well, I know a bunch of people who would disagree with that. Aesthetics is not only about what you can feel with your senses.  For many people, aesthetics can be about the elegance of the design, the technology or even digital assets.  For example, mathematicians and physicists often think some theorems and definitions are beautiful or elegant, attaching importance to the aesthetics of their work (ref: Mathematical beauty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty)).

"A mathematician, like a painter or a poet, is a maker of patterns." - G.H. Hardy

And, in the world of technology, Steve Jobs famously stated, "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."

So just because something doesn't fit your personal view of aesthetics doesn't mean it's not artistic or good design for other people.  Aesthetics are subjective, you know?  What one person finds beautiful or elegant, someone else might think is whack.

Are you serious or joking? Who filled your head with this nonsense? Imagine if you invested a lot of money in Bitcoin pyramid and new investors stop investing. And then you come home to your wife, girlfriend, or mom and start preaching this nonsense about the aesthetics of invisible things. What would she say to you? What would any normal person say? So, are you serious or joking? If you're not joking then I would advise you to seek professional psychological help.

JamesNZ

Bitcoin and Ethereum have all characteristics of commodities with transferability like ]money. They are not controlled by a board or central power, their supply is scare, their operational rules are governed in a decentralized way and the economics can not be tampered with.

This has already been established by several authorities such as the CTFC and other institutions around the world.

So no, Bitcoin is not money, it is a commodity. Which is even better.

No, it is not a pyramid or ponzi as you have said too. It does not rely on new investors to survive. It can go to $1 tomorrow and the network can still operate the same as if Bitcoin was worth $1000000. The value makes no difference to its operation (for the most part).

There's no point arguing as you are with many members. Maybe 10 years ago you would successfully confuse people and cause debate, but in 2023, you're mistaken.

I also don't understand why OP says that Bitcoin is not money, but it is accepted as an option payment in all types of businesses around the world. So I think it's probably right that we should just abandon this topic that he made, which is really useless. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

Because to me, bitcoin is obviously money; that's why it's called a digital currency, and we can clearly see that almost all exchanges have Bitcoin as the main exchange for traders.

When Bitcoin first came out back in 2009, I can totally see why people were skeptical of it.  I mean, this weird internet money that isn't backed by any government or physical asset? Yeah, it seemed pretty out there.  but over the years Bitcoin has really proven itself. and  Nowadays, it's taken seriously all over the world.  Major banks and corporations are getting involved with crypto.  Even governments are trying to figure out how to regulate it.  So all those old concerns people had don't really apply anymore. 

Sure, it's still pretty volatile and high-risk compared to something like stocks.  But a lot of smart investors have decided it deserves a place in their portfolios.  And as crypto tech keeps advancing I think Bitcoin will only get more stable and mainstream over time.

Bitcoin, gold, oil, water, even a $100 bill, among many others, are not money, it is only money when the action of exchanging something for something else occurs.
As long as something has value to others it could be used as money, just like a personalized check that only you can cash, it is money for you and a piece of paper for others.

You just answered yourself, money is the action of exchanging values according to circumstances, money is not something physical, it is something with a variable value, before they used sea shells as money now they use paper and cryptocurrencies, but yes, Are these things money? Or is money something intangible? Or a simple action of giving value to something?
If someone is kidnapped for $1M, is that person money?
When they offer rewards, are those people money? Then we come to the conclusion that everything is money, or the more logical thing is that money is the action of the exchange, not what is exchanged in itself.

Its trading volume is driven primarily by speculation.  Its value is driven by network effects, utility, censorship-resistance, security, predictable supply, etc.  Try not to conflate the two concepts.  

Bitcoin possesses these traits, which many users deem to be desirable.  And the only way to benefit from these traits is to join this network and use the monetary units of this network.  

to emphasise

currency is any form of medium of exchange.. sex is a form of currency..

when a mass community agree on a currency they call it money

a governments fiat is money..
the US governments money is USD(dollar) but USD(dollar) is not europeans money.. europeans recognise dollar as currency. but not THEIR MONEY
europeans money is EURO. americans money is not EURO but americans recognise euro as a currency.


there are subdivisions of terms.. learn them
a currency does not have to be fiat. but fiat currency is a currency.

bitcoin is not any governments money. bitcoin is OUR money. though other governments recognise bitcoin as currency

get it yet
if we wanna use it for ourself its our money. others not using it wont recognise it as money because they are not in the community that use it

They do exactly that an Oxygen facial Is invisible yet it acts to beauty the skin.

so good luck with your argument. BTC baby allows blockchain artwork and bro that is an aesthete function or purpose.

I consider Bitcoin as loads of things including money, the difference is just that it doesn't function the traditional way.

The single fact that it leverages on a blockchain technology driven by codes makes it become, first, a code, before it becomes a network and then a coin having a dollar value backing it then it becomes a store of value and loads more, depending on who is addressing it as what.

Actually, when talking about scepticism towards bitcoin it not only happened from the beginning they were created but even today it is like that because it is indeed a sense of scepticism towards bitcoin especially for beginners who are new to bitcoin then scepticism must remain.
So in this case it is important to learn as a whole when we are still not sure so that it will create a new understanding of bitcoin and as a choice whether bitcoin is really worth it or not to be used as investment material.
I think it is important that in the end we must realise that bitcoin is still bitcoin which indeed even though it has now begun to be looked at by many people but if we talk about the current human population, bitcoin adoption and developments that occur are only a small part of the overall population so it is quite natural that the problem of scepticism will continue to exist. But that's not a problem for me personally because at the end of the day it's their right to be sceptical about bitcoin and it's not going to be a problem for me because I'm just going to continue to do what I want to achieve in bitcoin according to my beliefs.

no matter how people look at it, we can say that bitcoin has corresponding fiat value in the market. so even if some people are not considering this currency as money already, it doesn't matter anyway. we can already equate to certain value as it is actively trading in the market.
of course, if your btc remains to be btc, it is still not money. but once you convert it to fiat, that's when you will appreciate its actual fiat value.

That's not correct! So, if I offer you a certain amount of bitcoins in exchange for a product or service that you offer, you wouldn't accept it? Doesn't Stake casino pay you in bitcoin to promote them here? So how can you say that bitcoin does not serve as money for you?

I don't have to exchange it for fiat to recognize its actual value. I can use it to pay for products/services, just like fiat currency. In most cases, it's even more practical.

Simply put, money is just a unit of measurement, a measure of value and used for exchange, so anything that performs those roles can be called money. Gold or bitcoin can both function as money, not just government fiat money can be called money. This reminds me that in Chinese history, they also used gold and silver as a means of exchange and payment, and they were also called money. So therefore, bitcoin is money. OP and some people consider bitcoin not to be money, they should review the definition of what money is.

money is the term used by those using the currency for commerce (income/spending).
currency is the broad term of some unit of measure holding value and used in exchange...
WHO and how its used defines is money.

money is not just fiat. money is the collective acceptance of any community needs to perform commerce(income/spending) of their prefered money unit

those not using gold do not see it as money.. but those that do use/spend gold to purchase things in exchange see it as their money.
those using gold as just a store of value(hoarding) see it as a asset investment

europeans see the EURO as money when spending/receiving income.. americans dont accept EURO as money in america but see euro as a currency
europeans see the EURO as savings/investments when hoarding..

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying here.  I was just reading something the other day about how there's still some native tribes using seashells as money.  Which is pretty crazy when you think about it, since that's what some old civilizations did thousands of years ago.  But the thing is, while those seashells have value to those specific tribes, if you tried using them as money with most other people theyd look at you like you're nuts. And  even if the shells are super valuable to that tribes, no one else is gonna take them as money.  Whereas with US dollars or euros, basically everyone accepts those as legit money, since we all know it's got value that can be exchanged and used all over.  

So it's kinda like how if you took some random dude from a cut-off tribe whos never seen the internet or whatever and tried to pay them in bitcoin, they'd have no clue what you're talking about or why they should accept some digital coin as money.  But for most of the modern world, we recognize bitcoin as having real value, even if it's not physical.  So I agree just because some isolated individuals or groups don't see the value doesn't mean bitcoin isn't considered legitimate money by the rest of the world.

Money is any acceptable means for a legal tender that is, when we use anything in exchange for something, it's valued as money, so should we now accept that bitcoin is not money or rather being the latest version of money because it's in a digital form, we can spend it, keep it, save it, exchange it and earn it as the way money is being made, everyone have access to money likewise bitcoin, so what we decided to use bitcoin for is what it's meaning may ve interpretated in our hearing.

Yes, if people are using it as money, then it's money, regardless of the unit of account.

Incidentally, does this mean you'll finally cease your ongoing tirades about millisats?   ::) 

By what you've just said, it sounds as though you've had a breakthrough and can correctly rationalise this concept now.  I hope you continue to make progress in both your understanding and your acceptance of reality.

I also consider bitcoin as money, the difference is that fiat money is only for traditional transactions which are without collateral and we are forced to use it. In contrast to bitcoin, apart from many things, bitcoin is also future money that cannot be faked and is honest money.

because I believe we are still the first generation, now is the right moment to enter because in the future we will just reap the results. Especially now in the age of technology, all information is quickly conveyed to many people, so I don't think there's a need to wait a long time to get the results.

>"Today, the dominant type of money is the one created by banks, i.e. fiat money."

Governments, not banks.

Money is a tool of exchange, the material form of the principle that people who wish to deal with each other must do so voluntarily, giving value for value.  Money is a tool.  Fiat, enforced at the point of a gun can't make it valuable in the long term. 

There have been similar arguments since 2009, 2010 etc.  In July 2010 there were similar arguments on slashdot when bitcoin was mentioned there.  More than 13 years later, they still don't hold water.  People see the problems with fiat not backed by anything of value:  the value of fiat is at the whim of a majority of the political class who want money and power. 

A free people have the power to withdraw themselves from the caprice of the politicians and protect the products of their lives using PMs, bitcoin etc.  A lot of smart people are doing so and have done so. 

Bitcoin can be used to exchange goods, can be used for payment even if it is not legalized by the government, as long as there is an agreement between buyer and seller , bitcoin is called money. I don't understand why the OP and some others are saying that bitcoin is not money when it can do anything that fiat can do.

Not only that, it can also serve as an investment, a hedge against inflation and even turn us into our own bank without having to rely on anyone . Bitcoin is not just money, Bitcoin is also a versatile asset.

Op I really don't understand why you create this thread with no good reasonable points to take home. Bitcoin was not meant to be a physical cash but it is for digital currency which can be used to make payment online. And there are many testimonies that people have used bitcoin to buy things online and the goods were delivered to them, so if bitcoin can be used to purchase something online then it is automatically it becomes money and it is from the cashless family of transaction which is basically using p2p.

I don't see your points as any good reason of saying bitcoin is not money.

When Bitcoin is functioned as a money in a country, it is not as simple as you think, buddy. Legality is a must, even if both buyer and seller agree, it is still illegal if the government doesn't allow the Bitcoin for a payment tool. It happens in my country, Bitcoin is illegal for a payment tool. You can use Bitcoin for an investment purpose only (digital asset). If you use it to pay for goods or services, you will be jailed or get fines. Our laws only allow our national currency (Rupiah) for the payment tool. So, in this matter, we have no chance to function Bitcoin as the money in my country.

If Bitcoin is functioned as an investment, it is a common thing. In many countries, Bitcoin is already accepted if it is used for a digital asset (investment). The only thing that is still difficult to implement is to function Bitcoin as a legal currency. I've no idea about how to speed up the adoption of Bitcoin as a currency. But I think it will be easier if the pioneer country like El Salvador can succeed by making Bitcoin as a legal tender. Then, it probably triggers other countries to follow it.

Bitcoin is already theoretically a currency that does not require government approval. But to be able to become a legal currency recognized by the government, I don't think it will happen easily. Because most countries have their own national currencies, they have no reason to accept a currency they cannot control.

El Salvador has accepted bitcoin as currency but they still use USD as their main currency for payments, Bitcoin is just an alternative. Furthermore, they are also focusing on investing in bitcoin rather than promoting it as a currency.

When bitcoin was created, it was already a currency , a p2p currency that was not controlled by the government .And to be a currency,  it just needs to be able to do anything that fiat can do , and bitcoin can do everything that fiat can do. The only difference between fiat currency and bitcoin is decentralization and centralization as well as government legitimacy. So , it would be incorrect to say that bitcoin is not a currency.

It will be a bit inconvenient if the government does not accept bitcoin as a currency , and we will use bitcoin secretly, but that does not mean it is not a currency. Just like many years ago, the government even banned us from investing in bitcoin , but are you quietly investing in it and considering it as an investment?

Is simply because the market price of bitcoin is highly volatile and subjected to large price swings. as a result,the market price at any given time may vary wildly from what could be considered a fair value.

Imagine you have two gold coins in front of you, in your possession. They are both the same size and weight, they both have the same denomination stamped on them (say $10 for the sake of argument). And they are both legal tender for $10.

Only, you know very well that one of them is pure gold and the other is gold plated tungsten.

Your government made it into law that your gold coins are both legal tender for $10.

Only, you know one has more gold than the other.

You will likely spend the gold plated one and save the pure solid good one.

This is known as Gretchen's law: bad monry chases out good money.

People will always save the money they consider valuable and spend the money they consider less valuable.

But based on your logic, gold plated tungsten is better money than gold because people don't use the good coin to buy stuff.

If I have a dollar and a Bitcoin in my pocket, I will spend the dollar and save the bitcojn. BecausecI know the dollar is worth less, it loses value the longer I hold it. But the bitcoin gains value the longer I hold it. I spend the bad currency, and I save the good currency.

But this Gretchen's law only works so long as you can find an idiot to take your gold plated tungsten and your paper dollar. Eventually, you will run out of suckers to pass the bad money to. And that is when we will all have to spend our BTC.

And at the rate inflation is going, suckers will get very difficult to find in 20 years from now.

Perception and agreement matter. No matter what the government says, a group's decision makes something a currency. Bitcoin represents this ancient idea in modern times. Currency is defined by user trust and value, not its physical form or official backing.

Public faith in Bitcoin is more important than official approval. Bitcoin has become a currency for many. The ability to purchase, trade, and store value like cash is unquestioned. Its actually more efficient than fiat currencies, especially for cross-border transactions and central authority independence.

Gold is a good comparison. Collective belief also drives gold's value. We value it because we believe so. Similarly, if people believe Bitcoin is a currency, it becomes one. Its decentralization may hinder its adoption, but isnt that part of its are attractive? It changes our view of money and worth. Bitcoin is about challenging and possibly redefining our concept of currency, not merely becoming a globally accepted currency.