Bitcoin Forum

On behalf of the Local Languages Section (Pakistan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=11.0)), we are requesting clarification on the rules for postings in this particular section where a community have only One Local thread.

Recently, we have noticed multiple posts from different users being deleted from the Local Languages section. After a brief investigation by our local moderator Xal0lex, it was discovered that posts related to Airdrops, Altcoins, or translations of signature campaigns are not permitted in this section.

Xal0lex further confirmed that these posts were not deleted by him, but by some other moderator.


Xal0lex also pointed out that a rule from hilariousandco states that only bitcoin related posts are allowed in local languages section.


Here, I'd like to highlight that in the sections for Other languages/locations (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=11.0), local communities like Pakistan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.0), বাংলা (Bengali) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.0), and Укpaїнcькa (Ukrainian) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236982.0) don't have their own boards. A single topic is the only place to discuss anything related to bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, politics, or off-topic discussions in a local language.

If a community have it's own board like Pyccкий (Russian) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=10.0) and Italiano (Italian) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=28.0) you can easily separate posts related to bitcoin or altcoin etc. But for one local thread you don't have this option and allowing only bitcoin related posts seems like there should not be any discussion at all.

Xal0lex our local moderator of this section seems to be agree on this, that if community have one local thread, then it should be allowed to discuss everything.


I also want to highlight that Pakistan and Bangladesh are one for most active local communities despite not having their own board.




Xal0lex have suggested to create this topic. So, we are kindly requesting the moderators/admins to clarify that posting anything like the following is not allowed in Local Languages?


and only bitcoin related posts are allowed. Thank you.

I'm with the Pakistani local board on this. When you have just a local thread to discuss everything about cryptocurrency, both local and international news, then one would need the freedom to discuss multiple topics on that thread, including off topic content as well, cause there is no where else to do that.

I support the cause. If a thread is all we have got, we shouldn't be restricted to discussing a single thing within that thread, if it's against the rules, we request that we be given a local board where there can be different threads for each discussion to avoid such problems.

I am fully behind this cause. It seems ethically unjust to stop a community from talking about all the allowed topics of the forum in a single available thread. To avoid these problems, it would be best to set up a separate board where members can start discussion on various topics on different threads.

Thank you sir for creating this topic for us. I support the request. Because we want freedom. We have only one thread and we want to discuss everything in our thread.

Like Shahzadafzal sir said if we can talk only on Bitcoin so why we need the local thread? We have the Bitcoin Discussion section. We can post there.
Just like this we have the altcoin section we can talk about altcoins there why this local thread made.


We have already submitted an application for our local board if administration can't give that so at least give us freedom to talk everything in our local thread. I hope administration will consider it. Thanks.

Exactly, unlike with my Local Board (Pilipinas) there's some separation since there's a different board for that. It's a good thing that this has come to light though because it tackles the issue that needs to be talked about, and I think that if this isn't solved, it's probably a good time to talk about adding a board that's appropriate for the deleted posts so everyone's happy. That's probably the only way that both parties can be satisfied, the thread will be clean and people can still talk about the stuff unrelated to that thread with freedom and without the worry that it will get the deleted just because it's posted in the wrong place.

In local threads, there are rules that prohibit posts, translations, announcements of altcoin projects. Perhaps you don't know about that rule that exists for a long time already.

On top of a child board for Local languages, you can see a description for the board purposes.

It has a sticky thread too.

• Do not create threads or post translated ICO Announcements in here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2589999.0)
• The rule was applied since 2017 ICO wave.
• If a local board has their own local board, not local thread only, the rule will be applied.
• I think the rule is good to control spam in local threads. It will be easier to moderate threads on sub boards than a Mega local thread.
• You and your locals can fight (with contributions) to have your local board and can succeed with it, but to change this rule, I don't think you will succeed.

Since the forum rules are unofficial, but accepted by everyone, it is up to the moderator to decide whether the post fits within these rules. And although the rules are general, each local board/topic has its own dynamics. After applying the recommended rules, it may vary slightly.

Now, taking into account that the topic is local, where it is difficult to catalog the conversations. I think that any topic should be avoided, as it ends up distorting the topic.

But, I also think that if the local community thinks that a certain topic is relevant to the community, even if it is not recommended by the rules, the topic should be accepted. With approval from the respective moderator. In turn, it should only be the moderator of that community who manages this issue, in order to guarantee the general and local rules agreed by that local community.

I really appreciate your efforts for our community and our whole community is behind this case. Because we have only one thread to talk in our local language so there should be freedom to talk in anyway.
And if anyone thinks that this will go wrong so keep in mind there are many members in our community who know which post is not good for the community and they just report the post and moderator take an action on this. And delete the post immediately.
In conclusion we want freedom talk in our local community thread. :)

From the experience I have had in the Spanish Section of the forum, the impression I have gotten from participating there is that one thread opened in the local board is supposed to have a minimum relevance or connection to the Bitcoin ecosystem or Bitcoin as a decentralized asset for the thread to stay in place and not be moved into a different section.
For example, I opened a thread about how people are kidnapped in southern asia and forced to work in factories of scams or scam facilities, at first glance such topic does not have anything to do with Bitcoin at all, however, I commented on the Original post about how much money in Bitcoin those scammers are likely to be in pursue off and warning our colleagues in the Spanish section of the forum that, since Bitcoin is in ATH territory, we are supposed to be as careful as possible not to fall for widespread scams from those human trafficking centers.

We also have a thread on what the presidency of Milei in Argentina could mean for the future of Bitcoin in that country.

Threads which do not mention Bitcoin or do not talk about Bitcoin are usually move to the alternative currency section, the beginners and help secion or the off topic one.

Just my two sats.

I do not know whether Xal0lex can speak Urdu (assuming it is the local language used) or not, but if there is no local mod who can evaluate the quality of posts and the extent of off-topic, it is better to be Bitcoin only discussions, with off-topic thread.

I believe that the beginning of solving this problem is by demanding the establishment of a local board for the Urdu language.

According to Wikipedia there are:

I support shahzadafzal for our local board demand because just like you guys explained that such rules were applied back in 2017 for local board and every one should follow in order to survive here, so now the only possible solution for us is to create an independent local board Paksitan for us where we can discuss and share freely what where knwoledge we want like inside circle of Bitcointalk rules the way other local board does.
Otherwise such rules and decision looking totally unfair for us. If Bitcoin can provide freedom why not Bitcointalk ??????

Keeping up with multiple discussions on one thread is hard enough, doing that across two different threads will be very difficult and discussions cannot be moved across from one thread to another, meaning they will need to be deleted.

I personally believe that if a local thread has gotten to a point where there is a puzzle if one thread can fit in everything, then it's a good time to start considering giving that community a local board.

What makes you think the forum rules are unofficial? Where did you read about it? Can you provide a link where this is written?

Joker is right.... It's clearly written.


Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5489572.0)

---

Well, we had a single Naija thread for almost 3 years and it was the most congested thread ever - we were discussing literally everything Bitcoin, entertainment, News, Politics and Off-topic without any problem...  What changed now?

And where is he right? You, like him (as well as many others) have reached legendary rank, and you still don't understand what the title of the topic says :) "Unofficial" refers to the list that mprep created, and the rules are quite official, which is clearly indicated by the word "official" in parentheses. The rules are official, the list is unofficial.

Both truth and two wrongs can co-exist BTW  ;) I've never read it like that...

Thanks Shahzad and xal0lex for your support and for standing for a board, I hope a time will come Pakistani will get there own board where they will post relevant content and as Igebotz said Nigerian board before getting one, posted all kinds of posts and there was no such rule, we are not against the rule (I assume, BTW I am not) what I stand for is to get a board, rules are not easily changed and I know that but I think getting local board is harder then that.
The FUN fact is, I am also one of those who never read it like that 😂 well, that's a good thing I read it like that way, well it may be read as an unofficial list of official bitcointalk, or not. Just asked out of curiosity.

I Support Shahzadafzal Sir call for an independent local board on Bitcointalk to help community freedom in talking about any topics in our Pakistani community. I am supporting an free thinking local board on Bitcointalk for open discussions without any fear of posts being deleted That is why requesting for the local board to discuss various topics within the local thread to ensure community engagement. I think there is another reason demand for a local board on Bitcointalk because Our community seeks freedom and free discussion in our local Urdu language.

First of all, sorry for being late here as I was not active previous days well Sir many Thanks for being here for all of us. I request and stand with shahzadafzal sir for our own local board and I also request staff/moderator member Xal0lex sir to do something in our favor if possible as sir you also know that what kind of problem we are facing while posting we are being restricted and we want to talk but we can not talk just because of changing in rules. As if once we grant with with our local board there will be no problem with the forum member who facing the Deletion of post problem.

we will be able to make specific threads for specific decisions in our local board if we will be granted with it i hope that we will see positive feedback on this very soon. Many Thanks!

This might be irrelevant, but in our Greek board no topic was deleted with the justification of being "unrelated to Bitcoin" (and nor should it be, in my opinion). At least, not in the past four years that I've been active. (Our mod is inactive about two years now (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=210680), but I presume others could respond to reports)

Yeah... I always found this title a bit misleading as well...

Honestly, I never saw it that way. But I'm not going to discuss that either, because I'm not an expert in English.


Now according to the sources cited to write the rules, they are based on guidelines and not rules.

Furthermore, the OP's final note is clear in saying that what is listed are just conclusions drawn based on the observations made (not based on clearly pre-established rules):


Based on this, I came to the conclusion that the "rules" listed were not official, but a general consensus between moderators and users, which guided their behavior in the community.

If there is a list of official rules, then there should be a topic or web page with that list. Created directly by the forum administration or moderation.
This is my understanding, of course.
But, soon, I accept this new perspective - which in 10 years I never had. I apologize if I misled anyone.

Agreed. But, fortunately, we, at বাংলা (Bengali) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.0) thread, have not experienced much of an interference from moderator's end in this regard.

It's also in the rules and the only thing forbidden on a single local board is " coin announcement translation" everything other discussion is allowed.

There is no Bitcoin without Society and there's no society without politics and politics comes in different from. Whoever deleted those posts needs to read this part of the rules. ..

Hmm, currently, we manage various types of posts within a single thread, be it news, analysis, or educational content—all on the same page. This setup has its drawbacks; at times, locating relevant posts becomes quite challenging. Initially, I diligently shared educational posts in a structured and organized manner. However, due to the nature of the single-threaded setup, user engagement was disappointingly low. Consequently, I decided to refrain from posting major educational content.

Instead, I opted for a different approach: personally guiding users through one-on-one conversations. This method involves discussions infused with personal experiences and references, proving to be more effective in engaging users. However, I am concerned about potential repetition in discussions when addressing the same topics with different users on different days. Nevertheless, given the absence of a dedicated board, we are compelled to adopt such methods to convey information effectively.

I am pretty sure one does not need to be a local language speaking or writer these days to moderate a local board. Google translation does the basic duty however for quality moderation, a local board needs a local language speaker.

Not the sub-board.

mprep talked about sub-boards but hilariousandco did not mention anything about it. It could be a misunderstanding and the result is the deleted posts where there is only one topic for the local community.

Google translator does not work on the Naija Local board - we're far into the future. No software has been able to translate the Naija Pidgin. It's really a mess there for a non-pidgin speaker to moderate. A call for a Local moderator is still pending....

You quoted my last post with "Not a sub-boards"  can you elaborate?

Yes, the language spoken in the Pakistani branch is not my mother tongue. Nevertheless, it does not prevent me from understanding what the users of this thread write. I look through almost every post there and can understand what users write. This is enough to evaluate this or that post for violation of forum rules.

You quote me our of context BTW- I was talking about moderating a Pidgin threads in the Naija Local board by non- pidgin speaker.. Google translator does not work there

I don't need Google translator to understand what users write there. I mean, it is not necessary to be a native speaker to understand what users write in the Pakistani thread.

I totally agree with you. Pakistan and Bengali thread are the most active threads in the other language section. It is high time we got our own local board. Maybe someday....

And regarding off topics (not Bitcoin related), all the other languages has their own local boards. They are free to create any topic whether its  politics, bitcoin, altcoins, off topic etc. But we don't have that privilege. Hence all topics stacks together in one giant single thread.

If I give a quick summery of my thread (Bengali), we don't discuss about bitcoin all the time. We talk about current affairs, our country, the political situation, bitcoin-altcoin, education, ourselves - all the topics you could imagine. It's feels like our own little community ;).

Note: ICO, promotional posts, Airdrops referrals are very rare in our thread, that's why I think the MOD hasn't deleted anything from our thread.  

But in the end official or unofficial if it's a rule then we should be respectful towards it (My point of view - just saying).

This is one one the challenges that a local board without its child boards can face, it will be difficult to know if a post is worth deleting or not, because both bitcoin discussions posts, politics, economics and altcoins posts were all contained under the same general main board for the local board, but if a request is made on meta to Theymos and the activities of the local board has experience an increase, the admin may use that as a consideration in granting them their request, any poster who does not meet up with the required boards posts will have his post deleted then because such would have been regarded as off topic.

I consider it as almost meaningless to have a local board without child boards. This is because I consider local boards as a forum inside the forum. The local board should be totally complete on its own such that anyone that does not understand English can settle confidently in the local board and would not be missing any significant thing in the general forum. We all understand that the main essence of the larger forum is Bitcoin, but then if I am in my local board I should be able to hang out with people and also discuss the things that affect my country most, if this avenue is are not provided for me to discuss, it will therefore render the essence of local board meaningless. If you are local board is not complete yet due to the number of engagement, I will advise that you people should manage what you have until theymos find time to create child boards in your local board.

On one hand, I am truly against the restriction of bitcoin only topics in local languages section, but on the other, I understand why the mods from bitcointalk had to implement this feature. Having a language barrier alone is already a massive bummer to these mods since they can only do so much when it comes to communicating with people in their local languages, and for the most part, the very communication that they solely rely upon depends upon other people who could act as their ambassadors, so to make sure that people are behaving and are not doing crazy shit while the primary moderators of this forum couldn't understand what you guys are talking about, not that you're doing crazy shit in there in the first place, is to make sure that all topics within local languages section are kept to bitcoin-only.

Pretty sure if they had other ways to effectively moderate these local channels without having to rely upon other people, they'd let us guys talk in our local dialects without much trouble on the topics of the conversation or whatever. But that is not the case so we are forced to deal with it lol.

Oh, my God, what are you guys talking about? Who forbids talking about anything else but bitcoin in local threads? I gave specific examples of what should not be in local threads. It is enough to look at the examples of deleted posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg63819041#msg63819041) to understand what should not be there. I repeat again, there should be no posts with airdrops, translations of subscription campaigns and news about specific altcoins. I emphasize, about specific altcoins. If it were as you all write here, I would delete all posts with congratulations on the user's getting the next rank, posts about politics, posts about sports, posts with discussions about life in the country, etc. So, no need to make a mountain out of a molehill, if you know what I mean.

You are just talking nonsense. Your local board (Nigerian) doesn't have child boards so it "almost meaningless" and can you remember how it was when all conversation was inside the same thread?

True, child boards help a lot and forum staff should be more responsive in that matter (creating child boards) but I think that you just forgot how it was before you got your own local board.