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Maybe there will be another clone of NXT which will be bigger than NXT but it looks like the two big ones so far are NEM and NXT.  I'm invested in both via a stake on NEM and NXT so I'm not biased either way.


My question is which one will win and be adopted. maybe both can co exist but I'm guessing one will be more popular and once people have moved to a platform then people will probably stick with it due to being able to trade inside it. Honestly at this point I don't know, but for the sake of my investment I would like to have as much opinions and info as possible to know...

Last time I checked NEM is non-existant, except as a forum thread. No network, no software. So what exactly are you invested in as far as NEM goes?

A stake and thanks for the obvious.

Of course this is speculation but for those involved deeply with NXT and NEM development there is a lot of potential information we can learn I'm sure. And dude if you didn't realise we are all speculating on the future based on current understanding be it Bitcoin or Dogecoin. Plus opinions do matter, popularity pretty much defines what coins stay and which ones get booted. It's a worthwhile discussion for me personally as I hold most of my crypto in NXT and am therefore wondering if NXT could die with the launch of NEM.

NEM is going to give a tough competition to NXT, and probably will overtake NXT in future.

The stigma about the distribution of NXT is never gonna leave and it will kill that coin,
once the successful clones are made with better distribution.

It is too soon. The fact is, that NXT is in difficult position, even though It seems to be best platform right now. Yes the stigma is huge problem.
NEM will no have any stigma, so if It delivers what we think, It will in my opinion overtake NXT.

Isn't there any functions that NXT will have that clones could never have? I heard mention transparent forging was one, what the significance of that is I would love to understand more.

personally I never understood the backlash relate to distribution, in my mind how ever poor it was I can't see what was that unfair, as it was open for quite some time and even if the makers made a ton of money they ultimately deserve to be rewarded more than any clone surely. Anyway it seems it's important to people so therefore how ever much I think it's retarded I accept it's a problem. I wonder how much that diminishes over time though and if later adopters are gonna care???

And in the end if NXT explodes up in price from here, then no one can say they couldn't invest from these levels.

Impossible to say unless NEM has a working product.

At present NXT works, but NEM does not.

What does it hope to deliver that makes it much better than NXT? I know this sounds like a defensive attacking question but it's not, I genuinely want to know what is the best at least on paper if all things promised are delivered?

I kind of made the point earlier that it's technically impossible to 'know' what will be successful in the future even with Bitcoin. So all discussion is speculation on this forum, this is no different, just a bit less info to go on.


I think saying NEM is just a forum post that some might say is disingenuous as it has a lot of history, information and set plans surrounding the project.

If I remember correctly, NEM was going to clone NXT first, but then they changed plans to write code from scratch. Is that so? If that is so, just take a look at how long it takes for NXT to smooth out all bugs and to deliver. Writing code from scratch is a tantamount effort. If NEM is going to undertake that, it won't be sooner than end of 2014 that it delivers a product comparable to NXT, if at all. By that time NXT will be waaaayyyy ahead in adoption and websites infrastructure, underlying services, etc. NEM is just vaporware for now, only plans and words. Yes, I am stating the obvious, but apparently someone doesn't quite understand the obvious.

If NEM clones NXT as is, well, that could help it win some market share from NXT, as it won't be too far behind, but I still wouldn't bet on it. It'd be same as LTC always behind BTC, just a backup crypto.

Sorry, but people like me who weren't even around for the IPCO aren't going to care that much about the initial distribution. If I buy a stock on the exchange, do I care about how its IPO was originally run? I might, out of curiosity, but not that much. Since the IPO's in the dead past, there's nothing I can do about it either way; moreover, what concerns me is how the investment will perform going forward. I can't change the past, and the dead past can't change an investment's prospects. Time does heal all wounds.

An exception kicks in when the IPO is new. Case in point: Facebook, which sunk to below $25 after its IPO was botched. The botched IPO was relevant, but only as data for the question "is this investment out of favour?" Now, of course, FB is comfortably above its first trade price.

The trouble is, the "kernel" crypto-culture here is a rarefied echo chamber. As cryptos spread to the ordinary world, matters that are crucial here become less significant the farther you go.

• Dexter McGeek, software designer: He feels for the people who feel they got shafted, but he believes in NXT going forward. So he thinks of diplomatic solutions that would smooth away the hurt. Part of his plan is to talk up NEM as a vehicle of healthy competition for NXT.
• Brent Pumped, investment banker: He has enough people sense to be aware of the hurt, but because he's well established in the regular world he secretly has the complainers pegged as sore losers who should just be humoured. A piddly little detail when compared with the big question of how NXT could score him more fees  ;)
• Randolph Waspworthy, country-club stalwart and amateur angel investor: "Why would I care about a bunch of twerps who are nothing more than born complainers?" He living in a rather posh echo chamber, all his friends and the people he respects concur flatly. Especially about the "twerps" part....

Sorry to be a little blunt with the illustrations, but that's what happens when a new innovation spreads. The newcomers don't relate the vehicle to our lives, they relate it to their lives.

See the answer here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg6051133#msg6051133 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg6051133#msg6051133)
Even if it delivers exactly as NXT, NEM has got a better distribution model.

Success is driven by people's perception and IMHO NXT has failed to gain that people's confidence with their initial distribution.
I wouldnt want to invest in some coins, which I know could be brought down to zero value if some of the inital investors get greedy.

I still think some of the investors are waiting for the price to go up a bit more to dump their coins.

Bang-on. Granted that there are times when the first-mover advantage erodes, but that's usually because the new entrant has a compelling advantage over the first mover. PayPal left eGold in the dust because a large majority of people preferred the mighty greenback to gold. Google was simpler and easier to use. IBM-compatible PCs made Apple an also-ran because IBM was shrewd enough to welcome clones - although that decision might well have been prompted by the in-house antitrust lawyers recommending an open approach. [IBM was sued for antitrust violations by the Justice Department just after New Year's in 1969, and the case was still pending when IBM moved into PCs.]

So what is NEM's compelling application? What shrewd plan does NEM have to overcome NXT's clear lead tech-wise? Sorry, but "fair distribution" isn't enough. That's a moral claim: in this sad old practical world, it'll only be compelling to moralists and people who are afraid of being envied. At best, NEM will be Apple to NXT's IBM. There'll be a vibrant fanboi culture supporting NEM, but that's all.

Actually, the fanboi circuit will be enough to keep NEM going. Apple fanbois kept Apple viable even in its darkest days. I actually hope that NEM will be the Apple to NXT's PC because one cyber can't be everything to everyone. Being in second does grant more freedom to be experimental. But, unless something really changes, NEM's fate is to be the alternative, not the standard, choice in the cyber-2.0 world.

Of course, once both gain traction, there'll always be the disappointed eMunie circuit saying to anyone who'll listen that eMunie thought of it first.  :) 

Take DOGE coin for example, what does it bring to the crypto world as new features?
Nothing, just a clone, but they did the marketing right and more people got involved in it to make it a success.

So my point is you dont have to come up with any killer features to succeed, just need to make people believe in the coin and success will folllow

I have a NEM stake and some NXT. Putting the question of differing features aside, I think with POS the initial distribution does count for a lot and who those stakes went to is important. Bitcoin's distribution is obviously skewed too, however those who have large amounts either paid a relatively large amount or put the effort in to mine it.

If your huge percentage arrived effectively out of nowhere I'd venture to say that you have less emotional investment in preserving the status quo. The ghost of massive holders does hang over NXT and if one or two twitch then its value goes into the toilet and confidence is destroyed. That's what would make me wary over putting large amounts in.

Yes, you're right again. And nothing succeeds like success.

Defeated general: "We lost unfairly!"
Victorious general: "We won!"

I'll go ahead and assume you think its me that doesn't quite understand the obvious. You made the point that NEM was non-existent and was just a forum thread which was silly. You can't deny that they have a bunch of people involved including some talented people from this forum and a lot of self interested stakeholders. They will i'm sure release something at some point...

But you actually made a decent point above in that even if they do get their shit together then NXT could be too far ahead. But also however much bluff it is the guys involved in NEM seem to think they will be launching in a month or two. While I know nothing about coding my hunch is that they are overplaying the idea that its a complete new code. My hunch is that really it wont be that different to NXT, a clone with a few cherries on top basically. I don't know if anyone with real tech knowledge knows how far away NEM is from the NXT in terms of code in reality?

Comparing NEM and NXT right now does not make any sense. NXT is a established coin while NEM is still under development.
That said, I dont think even one person out of the 3000 plus stakeholders who invested in the NEM IPO is regretting joining NEM infact most of them are ecstatic to be part of a very promising project.

I have diversified my crypto portfolio and have invested in a number of coins and IPO,  released and unreleased but as far as I am concerned NEM seems to be the most active and innovative coin, the very strong community and support cannot be underestimated as well.    

My advice to those who don't have a stake, please put your name in the waiting list. There will be a few stakes available after the multistake audit.

 :)

Promises very often look better than realization but I wish NEM the best, also Nxt. I am holder of both (if my Nem stake promise will be fulfilled).

Yes i have to agree. If NEM delivers all promises, then quite some time will have passed, and by that time, some killer features of NXT will be in existence. And at that moment, NEM will be one generation behind. I fear it will always be 1 generation behind.

I like both coins.

But what I don't see people mentioning here is that what's separating Nem is the large number of enthusiastic stake holders who are very active when it comes to the coin. As well as all the people still trying to get a stake, when they become available.

There's just a lot of buzz and activity, much more than any other coin. And that's really what's separating it.

I also think that it's giving a boost to NXT, at least in name recognition. And that's important.

What people on the NXT side have to do is not try to make this into a war where people choose a side.

The fact of the matter is that they both share completely different code, just like Ethereum and eMunie. Yet we don't see any wars with those coins.

in a few years 5 month difference might not be that big ,the difference could be who makes less mistakes

Nem has had a bigger budget to work with. I don't think they will be behind, and I think they will be very close on launch.

Most NXT supporters want the competition. Originally it was thought that NEM will be a fork, so all NXT holders pretty much have reserved a stake. I can only speek for myself, but we don't hate on any coin, we just like to call out coins, that do not bring anything new to the table ;)

Also eMunie is one of the most hated coins on the market, and it hasnt even officially launched!

I happen to like eMunie, because they're trying something very original. Unfortunately I can't invest.

It is not so much what they do, it is more about how they do it!

I haven't followed them in a long while, I just love the idea of something that fight volatility. An idea to stop whales. Don't know if it's something that would work, but I just like that it's being tried.

What has NXT actually delivered so far? I see many promises but few results (FYI, I hold NXT but have been losing faith lately).

Go here:
https://nxtforum.org/

To the technical discussion part and recover instantaneously your faith. Promised!  :D

The problem with nxt is that the distribution makes it so that the community is created and policed by people with large interest in the market cap of nxt and absolutely nothing else.  So that means that anything that makes nxt look bad will be ignored or pushed aside in some manner.  In theory NEM could avoid this and have a culture more like Doge.

You mean like alias, messages, working POS, 9 different clients, a working AE in testnet, a partially working Multisiggateway, a big and active community, a brilliant dev team?

What more do you expect from a 5 months old currency?

Rofl, people and their expectation^^ BTC needs 2 years to decide if they want to lower fees....

That is bullshit. Show me where we pushed aside valid concerns? There are some trolls that want to hurt NXT and we a rough with them, why would we stay polite?

What exactely has DOGE done on a technical aspect? They are a 100% fork with NO INNOVATION AT ALL.

But yeah, gratz, they donated a buch of coins!!!!

It's obviously impossible to accurately say. I'm personally thinking NEM will be the largest one in the future, for the following reasons:

• Better initial distribution. 3000 as opposed to 73.
• Improved forging method, 'Proof of Importance'. The person most important to the nextwork will recieve the most coins, not the person with the most coins. This discourages hoarding, and encourages its use as an actual currency.
• The stakeholder community of NEM is very enthusiastic, friendly and helpful, a far cry from NXT's stakeholders.
• An easy-to-use one-click-install client (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg5973475#msg5973475) on launch, with a focus on ease-of-use.
• A fully-functioning asset exchange on launch.
• NEM has philosophies of charity and fairness, with 10% of the supply dedicated to charity and giveaways, chosen by the community. A cryptocurrency built upon values like these is a cryptocurrency I want to be part of; not one where the founder has disappeared and the stakeholders (holding a vast quantity of coins) are silently waiting to dump, get rich and leave.
  

For more info on NEM's technical specifications, read the development plan here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I/edit). A whitepaper will be made when the code is finished, within a couple of months.

+1



Cool, got a link to see its current state of development? Thank you

There will be nothing physical to show until the launch of the alpha client for testing later this month, but it is listed here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4650545#msg4650545) as one of the features which will be available at launch, along with secure messaging.

It Is not bs. I've seen posts on nxt forums where someone was trying to understand why the block containing their transaction was not receiving confirmations.  Their post received 0 usefu replies and appeared to be editted when the person added new info to prevent bumping.  Maybe the problen was they went to the wrong forum instead of bitcointalk ?

As far as DOGE, I am no fan but somehow their marketing took off.  You should learn from them and not be pointlessly dismissive.

C'mon, some posts by some people cannot be used to label the entirety of NXT's community as heartless and careless people who care only about marketcap. Let's keep things from getting into a fight here! :)

Personally I'm hoping NEM or NXT take off for their technical superiority to first-generation PoW coins, rather than for some cheesy, gimmicky media campaign involving dogs and broken English.

Hi jackedwhite, you're generalising. Nxt is a decentralised community whose members have a wide variety of attitudes and opinions... Nem is no different. Overall I personally feel that Nxt's community is very friendly and helpful -- its strong opponents are often times not. ;)

Wow  :D you said it so much better than me. I just agree with what this guy just said lol

People want it now. ;)

I do not think that the original IPO will be a problem for the average Joe. Joe is always late, so no IPO as distributed as it can be will help.

Btw. I think the few big stakeholders are better, because they are more committed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect

Whut?

cf. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I/edit?pli=1#

That makes no sense at all. Nodes are accounts? Since when?

Edit: I though NEM has developed further the last time I read the plan. -.-

Hi, could any NXTer guess how many of original NXT stakeholders are truly active?
I would really like to know this. Any estimates?

Define active. Because most of them are forging. Also i know of about 20 people that own more than 1.000.000 that are active in the community and donate and support.

I have Nxt to thank for getting involved with NEM. There was a picture of three hot girls and a fat chick suppose to be a nxt clown  ;D .

I wanted to invest in NXT. What turned me off was the complicated way of installing the wallet ( 2 months ago) and the fact that all nxt was held by 70-73 people  :o it was too high a concentration of wealth. Imagine if NXT becomes the dominant cryptocurrency and a small investment of 1 btc could turnout to be a billion dollar  ??? it just seems wrong. Ofcourse I would have gladly joined the original 73 had I the chance but thats irrelevant. Even NEM with 3000 is still too concentrated if NEM becomes dominant I feel.

Some people say distribution is not that important to Joe average, but I disagree, I am Joe average and I just don't get a good vibe about nxt /quark because of this even-though its a great coin.

1 BTC is now 440 USD.

440 USD invested into BTC when it first launched was about 100,000 BTC. I am pretty sure the 440$ investment will eventually turn into a billion USD.

So why shouldn't that be possible with NXT?

Why should early facebook investors receive 100000% ROI?

People lie themselves with Nxt distribution,flaming it.But the only reason they do it is they got a cheap stake in NEM and dream about getting rich doing nothing.

Guess what, it wont happen.The problem is they are trying to destroy a productive project, with a lot of hard work behind, for a copy, that will never bring anything new.I read late about Nxt, but who cares about IPO.Nxt has a value now.If you see it cheap buy,if not dont touch it, but stop that kids campaign crying about distribution.

73 is bad and 2000 is ok??Why ?? Why not 50.000 or 500000000? NEM is unfair for the rest of the world who didnt read the thread.So if you really care about Nxt or Nem, just read and make yourself an idea of what each of these is working on, and decission will be very easy.And if you trust the project, just join and help in whatever you can.

In nem people is just talking about speculation and prizes,and walking over Nxt.In nxt no one talks about the price,as they know it doesnt matter this early, and they are not looking to pump.

Its how I feel, its not objective. I cannot give you a logical answer. All I can say is that a lot of people feel this way and perception is very important.
NEM right now is projecting itself as the good guy and that is a very good image to have.

Good write! Also to add, there are about 20000 accounts with NXT in them, with the 6000 registered forum users, this suggest that we have over 6000 active users, which is quite awesome given our age and the hatred that the currency is facing from haters.

I wont put numbers.For everyone who cares about distribution, just compare them here.DO IT YOURSELF.

 NXT HAS BETTER DISTRIBUTION TODAY THAT ALMOST EVERY OTHER CRYPTO! And counting that for not having yet a userfriendly client,which will soon be ready,a lot of people still have nxt in exchanges,which make distribution look worst.

http://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dogecoin-addresses.html

Your well loved dogecoin.34% of the coins owned by 6 accounts. Much WOW!

####

Also, guess what will happen when NEM hits the markets? Many will sell for a quick buck and the price will fall significantly and the big stakeholders will buy up tons of it , creating a slow trend to the distribution of other coins. Or do you guys really think, that this won't happen?

you did not even read what I wrote properly. I said even NEM is too concentrated, dont get too defensive. Distribution did happen the way it did and its not a lie, maybe its spread a little bit wider now, but people still think its an issue. You can rage all you want but thats the popular opinion wether you like it or not.

I don't think there is a NXT vs NEM comparison, nor does there need to be.

NXT it demonstrated that there was another way to build a crypto without cloning flawed v1.0 tech from BTC.
The flaws in how NXT was done (its done by humans so of course its flawed) has weakened it and allowed a broader 2.0 set of coins to develop..

If NXT was perfect - NEM would not exist.

The two coins are young next generation currencies and they don't need to compare themselves against each other they need to destroy the 1.0 coins holding crypto back so it can advance into the mainstream..

Like all flawed technologies, the investors in 1.0 coins are trying to 'fix' it by grafting on 2.0 capabilities. My worry is that if the new generation coins and their communities don't get their acts together the 1.0 coins will entrench themselves further.

Total coin market cap at the moment is around $6B US - this is a fraction of the money available on the planet and 2.0 coins are not penetrated at all...

So we shouldn't be honing our skills comparing NXT vs NEM - both are good coins with good communities, NXT is not perfect and I am sure NEM will have imperfections, although different ones.

What we should be doing is demonstrating why people should be ditching 1.0 coins in favour of NEM and NXT and the great things their communities will make possible..

I am not emotionally involved in any coin actually. Personally I think ripple will succeed.

+1 agreed.

Generalizing, yes.  I believe it is a fair observation of the community that is a function of the distribution.  

Here is another example.

Go to youtube and look for the Texas Bitcoin Convention and the panel on altcoins.  The guy repping NXT was a bit rude, turned off his audience by insulting miners, and then finished it off by yelling out the nxt URL over the top of everyone.  If you think it is bs, I ask you to youtube the video and not the NXT editted and approved version.  This is how NXT comes across to me.  There is nothing wrong with trying to become wealthy off a cryptocurrenncy.  I'm just expressing my opinion as a guy with a interest in all cryptocurrencies.  I own some NXT too along with a stake in NEM.

Q: Do you think that "A" or "B" will win?

A: "C" will.

Actually there is room for A, B and C to all 'win'...

But if their communities fight with each other then the v1.0 crap-coin out there is the only winner.

Yes, i was just pointing out that the thread is about NXT vs NEM^^

You say that NEM's case is this:
1. in launch and 1st pump   ............... 3000 NEM owners
2. the 1st dump ................................  1500 NEM owners,  10% of them bought the rest out
3. the 2nd pump
4. the 2nd dump .........  1500 NEM owners,  but 10% of them own 75% of NEM
and so on.

That reminds me about one state which believed in K.Marx. Then there was moved to capitalism. Even they all owned all the wealth together, the result was -and is, that 10% of the people own most of the money, oil, gold.
Why would that happen here also? Why it will happen? ;)

Not even sAying thAt the number of people owning will go down. I just think that the number of NEM each original stakeholder holds will go down. If  it starts with a market cap of 10000 BTC (not unlikely) how many people will not try to cash out 3 BTC per person? That is much money to them!

Rich people or atleast people with wealth, will always find a way to increase their wealth, and people with less money can't because their expenses are higher than their gains.

Sad but true..

I bet within 1 year, the NEM distribution will be exactely like BTCs

That could happen yes, but is it not possible people will sell half stakes quarter stakes or even a tenth of a stake? 3000 initial stakeholders will lead to a much faster, quicker and wider distribution. And I still feel c will Win  ;)

Sadly, it's inevitable. Not that many people have the fortitude to turn down a quick and substantial profit - the bird in the hand that's worth X in the bush. Conversely: if you truly believe in a cyber and you have the wherewithal, what are you going to do? Support the coin by buying more. If you're a true believer, you're doing good by taking the coin out of weaker hands while being guided by faith that you'll do very well in the long term.

And that's why distributions narrow.

Everybody is talking about money, market cap and buying and selling.

Crypto 2.0 is about being MORE than a coin. Being a coin BUT more. So, a 2.0 coin will not be successful for being a coin alone.

I agree

mmm... maybe the number  of people owning will not go down, but there has been many saying that they will sell their stake.
U r right: 3 BTC is much money to some - - - and that will start the concentration.

There are people who r not selling but who r not so rich.  they will start suffering from the game of the rich.

There will be alot of sellers when the distribution of NEM happens, but there will be holders to, i will be one of them, than there will be people buying into it that didnt get in at the ipo, i dont expect this coin to be huge value due to the dumpers in the beginning. NXT can manipulate the market keep the value up of there coin anytime they want, less likely with nem due to the coins being spread out more, I for-see the marketing of NEM to be like doge this will help greatly for the value of this coin and get more people to invest in it.

Exactely.

There are also some other components in there. For example there are guys claiming to own up to 90 accounts, and the investigation of the stakeholoders also showed many people that bought in mltiple times. So maybe there aren't even 3000 people to beginn with.

As a stakeholder myself i am hoping for a great start of NEM so i can participate accordingly ;)

One of the problems NEM is going to have is that it's going to be sandwiched in between NXT and Etherium when it launches.

NXT and Etherium are in some ways complimentary in the sense that NXT has "out of the box" features that get up and running quickly whereas Etherium will have a rich "Javascript for Blockchains" type language which will be used for advanced contract based transactions.

By that time, NXT might just have enough traction to carve itself a market presence alongside all the hype and bluster that Etherium will bring. NEM will get launched into the shadow of Etherium - a massivly more advanced technology than anything that has gone before and NXT which will have had nearly a year's worth of smoothing out bugs, gaining brand recognition and capturing new business (hopefully).

I actually don't give a sh*t about the distribution aspect. It's something that people bring up but is getting less relevant all the time. NEM will end up just as badly distributed make no mistake because people with a lot of money who want a lot will buy a lot and others will be only to happy to sell it to them. NXT is actually already spreading out. Have a look at these infographics stats http://nxtcoin.blogspot.com.es/search/label/Infographics

As for big holders cashing out and sending the price "to zero", don't kid yourselves. There isn't a stock in the world that doesn't have big holders. Whether it goes to zero is to do with the viability of the investment, not the size of people's holdings. Big holders already cash out of NXT on a regular basis. They also cash "in". Just last night someone bought 1.5 million NXT in the period of about 2 hours.

Buy what you think is a good technology and stop worrying about what everybody else has. Investments are not a democracy.
 

+1000

Well said.

+1 Market manipulation is far easier with a narrow distribution.  People like to make excuses that nxt haters are just jealous etc but this is just a fact of how things work.

I don't agree with you at all.

I watched a few of his interviews and read around what he's trying to do. I think his grasp on the technology, economics and philosophy of cryptocurrencies is incredible for his age. He's also made a lot of absolutely astute observations about where the whole technology is going and has a rock solid vision about how it should be shaped.

Just to take one solitary example of the top of my head - it will change the whole definition of an 'alt coin' for a start. Gone will be all the arguments about algos, source code, protecting networks with hashpower and so forth. An alt coin will just simply be a currency definition on the etherium network - protected by the full hashing power of even those nodes that have nothing to do with that alt coin.

I think you need to go back and review whatever appraisal you made that lead to such a clueless remark. Yes, its a big challenge, but it's the right approach.

Keep dreaming.

You talk as if the NEM market will exist in isolation just because it's 'well distributed'. For a start, it isn't well distributed. There are 7 billion people in the world and 3000 of them are going to be stakeholders. You've just picked a totally arbitrary number to decide what is "good distribution" and what isn't. These markets are a golfish bowl floating in an Ocean the size of the Atlantic when you place them in a global context. The biggest market cap any of them can hope for in the short term is a few tens of millions which is loose change down the back of the couch to many interested parties that might take the inclination to scoop up half the money supply for their daughter's wedding present.

You don't need to be an "original stakeholder" to be able to manipulate a market. In fact it probably helps if you aren't because then you've got nothing to loose.

Ownership demographics are not what is going to make or break any of these enterprises. Simple supply and demand is - if they supply something that people need then the value will be supported.

When was the last time you went into Starbucks and did a double-take when you got to the cash till..." hey, I've decided I don't want this coffee, the stock in this company is badly distributed which may lead to market manipulation".  ???

I don't think you've the slightest clue about what you're talking about.

I'm saying we're not handing out chocolates at a party and the people that think this is going to be a major investment criteria (i.e. something that will 'benefit' NEM over NXT) are deluded.

There are millions of companies around the world where the founder retains a 51% share for decades. The dynamics of ownership demographcs can go in both directions, up down and sideways. Have 3000 stakeholders if it makes you feel better. Have 30,000 or 300,000 (like Auroracoin) for all I care. It's not going to matter a jot to investors 2 years down the line any more than it matters to someone who just bought 2 shares in Apple for the last $1000 of their life's savings.

When i think of fair distribution I think of people that are currently involved with cryptocurrencys not the world population, you cant just give coins to people that have no idea wtf it is take auroracoin they are looking at it as free money end of story they dont give two shits what crypto currency is, you distribute coins to 3000 people that have a understanding of cryptocurrencys they can help market it, im going to own one million of a coin with my one stake, i will want to help support this coin, tell other people let them know how it works what it can do, remember this shit is all new and is finally getting mainstream coverage in the last year, right now i stand by my word. if you want to support a coin who would u have on your team 3000 people that understand the world of cryptocurrency vs say 30,000 people who have no idea what it is? If cryptos were mainstreams and everyone was using it, id say 100% 3000 people is not a well distribution but guess what at this point in time we dont live in that world.

A working/live asset exchange is why I purchased 2 bitcoin worth of NXT. Deliver this and my faith will be restored. The average Joe cares little about the IPO and only about functionality.

What makes you think this isn't happening ? Everything about this coin has been notable by the timely arrival of scheduled features and significant events.

The asset exchange is already in beta after only a few months. Why exactly is there a need for any "restoration of faith" ?

You seem to have an unbelievably myopic view of the cryptocoin economy.

If "everyone on this forum" is all there is in terms of market then we're all in trouble. There are literally thousands of investors in NXT. A few people make a lot of noise on forums about their pet grievances but that only lasts as long as they stay out of the market. Half of those are quietly hedging their bets and then STFU as soon as the price starts going walkabout in a direction they didn't expect.

It's all fud and bluster. V8x8d is right - "the average joe cares little about the IPO and only about functionality". If any of these technologies every get out into the "real world" it won't be 8-hour a day bitcointalk posters that will be investing in them.

needs to be moved to ponzi section? lolllz =)

:)
That comparison to Earth population starts being quite funny, when trying to determine the optimal distribution :)    I'm remembering that first it was used against the "fairness". In that task it works better, but not well enough.
 
Ofc a good distribution can be determined. There is a method, but we do not know it. So, even you can't say "it isn't well distributed".
If only one owns all the coins, it is some kind of distribution.
After some time has passed, there will be X owners.

Maybe a good distribution is such that the number of coin owners X increases with a certain speed S (delta(X)/time). X and S need to be such that the coin "lives" = people are interested in it + it has quite stabile value (or at least not -10% in every week) + ...


That is one "theory" - or someone may say bull...  :)
But if returned back to NXT vs NEM distribution, there are only guesses about how well NEM's distibution will progress. Time will show.
If making an assumption, then it is easy to say that a better distribution is reached, when X is greater, coz then it has more 'connections' to transfer the coins. Time will show. For NEM.
For NXT that could have been already calculated - and could have been produced a bit better figures than those infographs as there already exist a lot of data :)


Edit:
if S_NXT could be calculated eg. for every week, and the most of the NXT owners are satisfied with the distribution, then we can determine a 'good distribution', and that can be an example to all the coins :)

Bitcoin is gold, but it will be too slow and old to compete with the 2.0s. 

Ethereum or NXT or Ripple have a good chance at being the next and first world currency.  Ripple might be accepted by governments, NXT is here now and working hard to improve.  Ethereum if delivered (and I believe the hype) will be a huge technological breakthrough. 

NEM, has a chance to become a big player too.  The advantage it has on NXT is that it can learn from all of NXT's mistakes.  So it is very possible that it can eventually overtake NXT, but not in the near term.  It'll have to be released of course.  The biggest mistakes of NXT are it distribution and its "forging" scheme.  NEM has already addressed distribution and is working on a new way to secure the network called POI. 

Really..... there are sooooo many factors involved.  One president of one country could entirely shape the economic future of the world if said president adapted one of these.  Even if just a major bank teams with one  of these, that would be a total game changer.  Hell...... if a few major celebrities came out in favor for one of these that would make boost the economy 10%.  Hahahaha.  Yes, seriously.

mannn but you haven't even seen my coin yet ! Its' going to blow all these turkeys out the water! ;)  ~easy!!!

By the end of 2014, when NEM might deliver some finished product, distribution of NXT won't be an issue, as at current low prices a lot of people are buying. They'll be buying even more when Assets Exchange is released (in test net now). I don't see NEM as any meaningful competition of NXT.

What makes you think that Nem will deliver a finish product at the end of year, when an Alpha version is being released in 2 weeks also, and a final product expected in June.

I mean, is there something that you know that other people are not aware of?

I have been thinking about the famous BBcoin.  I am so excited, just tell me where and I can give you 1000BTC  hahahaha

NXT released alpha in November, and I don't expect they will deliver a finished product sooner than September, with all the declared features. Moreover, CfB himself said that he's going to make sure he'll deliver in summer, add another month or two to squash bugs to make the software production quality (not alpha or beta quality).

It took bitcoin a few years to become what NXT already is - money transfer mechanism, and they still find bugs in bitcoin, it's still beta. NXT strives for more, to be more than just a crypto money transfer mechanism (see its list of features), I guess NEM strives for more also. There is no magic, and developing software from scratch, debugging it takes a long time. It doesn't matter what NEM 'expects', you have to be realistic about what people can actually deliver.

If NEM just clones NXT, it won't be far behind in features, but behind in adoption.
If NEM codes its own software, not clone NXT, then end of 2014 is a realistic expectation for a more or less finished product.

The strange and wild twist to this story is that BCnext has left NXT completely, told people to make it better on their own.  But..... in a stranger twist a few days ago he released a message via CfB that NXT was just a test, just to see if his concept would work.  And now he has moved onto another project.  

Now..... How much of this can really be known.  Maybe BCnext is working as hard trying to fix nxt, just under a different name.  Or.... maybe what he said was not bullshit.  Maybe he will release a new project soon.  A small part of me desperately hopes it is NEM.  BCnext's whole point of making NXT was to make a new "mining" schema.  One that he had to compromise on because a truly radical concept for mining would not have been accepted by the community.  Now.... realistically, I gather that BCnext has nothing to do with NEM, but I wonder if he would approve.  NEM is inspired by NXT but is also attempting to having a completely different "mining" system, so in that point, it is in line with BCnext's plan.  Also, BCnext left NXT about the same time NEM was taking off.  I seriously doubt it, but the possibility and connections are made in my mind.  

Its quite funny to read this thread. Seriously both of these coin valuations are based on speculations and promises, it could be take years to see if either of these coins will manage to be real currency.
I hope that NEM maybe that one, but it is not even sure that any of these cryptocurrencies will even be that popular. Many of these writers sounds like some cult leaders or religious wackos with their prophecies. Rather funny is also that majority of these btt writers will sale their cryptos to Fiat money if then they can make a fortune...

If you are willing to read some journals or books about behavioural finance, im pretty sure you will find quite of bit similarities with current behavioural in cryptocurrency markets and dynamics of behavioural finance.

Even bitcoin is at the moment niche-product and how these nxt or NEM guys are so sure that 2.0 coins will be the "thing" Sounds like narrow minded though, because i can figure that in 2015 someone will create or claim to create generation 3.0 cryptocurrencies and so on...

I kind of agree with this.

I walked into this thread just now to find a discussion about pros and cons.
Instead I find a cat fight between people who want to make either Nxt or NEM win.

I will state openly that I am invested in Nxt, since 23rd of December. I try to promote it as much as possible and try to organise stuff.

That does not mean in any way I dislike other efforts. I was one of the first people to take notice of NEM, not least because I knew utopianfuture as a solid person and I see he has done an admirable job of getting NEM organised. I sincerely hope that he succeeds.

Ethereum? Good luck to them!

I am in cryptos because I love the creativity people display in trying to come up with ways to solve a problem. Cryptos are a means to an end, not the end itself.
If one of them develops the Holy Grail of a truly usuable decentralised system that becomes popular and is generally accepted: big PROPS!

I still have my cards on Nxt: because I am seeing lots of things happening and being developed and see the community taking responsibility and changing.
People who expect this to happen overnight are asking for miracles and basically are longing for a centralised system. Because that is the only way this will be done quickly.

I also know that this will always be the case, so I'm not worried.

NEM, Nxt, good luck to both. Hopefully we will learn from each other. Maybe we'll both be obsolete by this time next year. I highly doubt that 2.0 will be obsolete by that time, so that's good enough for me. :)

For the sake of simplicity, forget about BCNext. Either it's CfB who is the real BCNext or there is real BCNext but he just disappeared, we don't care. It's enough that CfB says he knows how to implement Transparent Forging in NXT, which can make it to process 100+ tx per second, and which is one the main features of NXT together with Assets Exchange, that's all that matters. And CfB said he will stay longer than 3rd of April, that's all that matters. I haven't seen any working implementation of NEM yet, that's all I know. When there is one and it's better than NXT, I'll be the first to say NEM beats NXT. For now NEM is just vaporware, not a single line of code, nothing to discuss.

I couldn't disagree more.  The fact that we are even having this conversation before NEM has launched anything tells me that if NEM launches something even close to comparable to NXT, it will pass NXT quickly.  You have to admit the community is quite huge for a coin that isn't close to launching yet. 

If (Big if!) Nem ever gets launched it will be the biggest initial dump in history. Everyone that wanted in was able to get in for basically nothing and the rest of us don't want anything to do with it.

Sorry to disillusion, but the on-again-off-again history of Etherium shows that centralization brings the opposite: the wheels of centralization grind s-l-o-w-l-y. It's interesting, psychologically, that so many people associate centralization with quick-time efficiency - the truth is typically counterintuitive. In another age, "centralization" = "turtle speed" would have been the intuitive conclusion.

Agree 100% on Nxt: I'm comfortably in the tank for it.

You dont want anything to do with NEM is a fair statement. You cant speak for other people, please look at the waiting list thread of people wanting to join NEM lol.

i'm going to at least wait till my logo is finished before i announce my IPO ! ;) haha

yea :)
Was it Neon, which had a chosen logo already in the first page of the announcement thread ...

imho ~ compileing the boilerplate in engrish is the tuff part! ;) hahahehe


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boilerplate_%28text%29

How would that be even possible? If this project launches in 3 months, then NXT will be nearly 9 months old and will have an established asset exchange and a digital goods store. The network effect alone would be enough to overcome your better distribution AT START. Because right now, we have much more than 3000 stakeholders.

Prove me wrong, but don't argue with me about how your vaporware will beat our already launched projects...

Just take a look at mastercoin, i fear this project will turn out like MSC but with less money stolen obviously.

UTOPIAN is the keyword here ;)

Why all these haters of NEM - are you afraid of NEM ?
NEM and NXT could widely coexist in my op.
The best could be to give both a real chance to grow and to establish.

Where exactely am i hating NEM? I want it to succeed as i have a stake in it, I just post facts so that people get a good idea where the coin is right now. I hate it when people spread FUD, and saying a coin is superior even though it is only existing on the drawing boards is spreading FUD!

I agree that speculating on NEM is just for fun at this point, so we'll have to see.  But, NXT has a lot of vulnerabilities.  Losing BCNext is not good and Cfb may also leave.  NEM has 5 devs who actually communicate with people.  I also like the branding of New Economy Movement better than NXT.  NXT wants to do all these huge things, which is great, but they are all over the place and can't get basic things right:  Lots of people, not just newbies, lose money because their "brain wallet" gets cracked.  A huge flaw was discovered by Dr. Evil which doesn't give people confidence.  The address format sucks. NXT needs to get it together.

This NEON?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400356.0

Yesyesyes :D
NEON was the one of the first coins I read about, and it was very dubious. Mainly due to the comments of the veterans, and also that finalized concept gave thoughtful thoughts :)
Who makes the logo first, and let not the community say anything about it, not even any bounty for the design of the logo.
Well, what was the result?  ::)

Well, all aren't such techies like you :D  There are common people, who play lottery, though they know that the possibilities to win are one against millions, they buy a new ice cream flavor, though they know that it won't beat their favorite. And they see something new coming, when it is just talked about... in good and in bad.
When there were protests in Kiev at the end of 2013, they thought that something bad is going to happen. A techie may have thought in a different way.
When there in some community were plans planned and commented and checked, they thought that something good will happen. A techie may think in a different way. :)

BCNext never planned to stay on the project, so we didn't really had the chance to keep him :(

C-f-B will stay atleast stimm summer.

Our main dev Jean-Luc is going strong as always.

James and Cyiam are 2 C programmers working on protocol layers.

Wesleyh and Nexern work on Testnet and .exe clients.

We have 5 other very competent cleint devs.

Overall we have about 20 people working on the core and very corerelated projects. Nearly all of them are very responsive in our new forum...

Yes we have some flaws, but we always fix them fast. BTC had way more flaws in its first year!

All clients warn about weak passwords, I know most people don't give a shit about that, but it is the same with wallet.dat's left undecrypted on dropbox by newbies. Our Offspring client uses a wallet file for that, so use that if you are worried.

Address format is ok, it just lacks a checksum imo.

Hey, that makes me sound like I can't imagine where this coin might go! I totally think that it can be awesome. But to talk about that like it will surely happen is a bit missleading ;)

NEM will overtake NXT

because:

1. better distribution
2. user friendly wallet (it can't be worse than a NXT wallet :) )
3. NEM source code

NXT is very good coin
but NEM have potential to be No.2 cryptocoin

NxT does have things going against it.  The valid FUD aside, I think PoS hasn't proven itself yet and I'm not sure it'ld ever see mass adoption. 

IMHO - something like PoS is better handled through eventual crypto banks who'll issue loans, collect interest and then pay interest to account owners.

Who said that ?

If that was true (and I am pretty sure it is not) only a far minority would even bother using NEM.

NXT is not that big right now and there are already clones. Just wow

sorry

bad english

nascoin,the first clone of nxt! just like ltc to btc!

And how is that relevant to this discussion ?

yeah such wow, none of which is working :D

NAS is working ;)

And I'll bet that the bulk of those twenty come from the initial investor pool that's caused so much rancour here. Funny how that worked out...  ;D

afaik only 1 of the twenty is an initial stakeholder.

Also the initial stakeholders pay for the devs, so there is that..

Okay, thanks. Won't be the first time I had a wrong hunch, and it certainly won't be the last...

NXT is not "growing" now.
Maybe all in the crypto world is now in idle state.
Maybe the world is in idle state; waiting for Putin's commands, waiting for China's prognosis to the next years,  ... or just waiting for Easter holidays ?

Nah...it's the typical post-bubble coma.

or
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg6149293#msg6149293

NXT is not "growing" now.
Maybe all in the crypto world is now in idle state.
Maybe the world is in idle state; waiting for Putin's commands, waiting for China's prognosis to the next years,  ... or just waiting for Easter holidays ?
 ???

Nxt should be first. Maybe a mineable clone of nxt will do good

The funny part about this is that unlike you, I have no bias here.  Actually, I own a fair amount of NXT.  I'm not on the NEM team so it's not MY vaporware.  My point is that you can't deny that NEM has a quite large community for a coin that hasn't launched yet.  Any decent launch will make this project an immediate success.  You probably don't even know that Mastercoin will be the platform to host the MaidSafe offering on April 22.  It looks like Mastercoin will have the 1st mover advantage after all. 

The NxT bagholders are angry.   :D

This is definitely Downfall Hitler Parody material right here.

Right, let me just quickly sell my NXT and buy some NEM. Oh wait, I can't.

Har Har.  So what will you say in late May? 

Then I will have 0.03% of all NEM anyway that is enough for me ;)

when will the NEM done for launch?
late May?

LOL at NAS, this coin is 10 bil and has already much much worse distribution than NXT originally.
I think that NEM will overtake NXT at one point, (in case NXT wont boom before NEM launches).

we need quick launch of NEM, lOL

As a mastercoin supporter- and a long time bitcoiner that's seen all the alt-coins come and go, I have to say I find the "buy in" process for mastercoin a bit of a boon. While perhaps JR gets rich off the project, it also simultaneously motivates him and supports him. Last I checked, he's now working on it full time, funded by the money essentially given to him by the people who bought in at the start. In some ways it's less a rippoff (of course, I'd like to believe that right?) then it is angel investing. A few bad months, (or even years) in terms of the price of Mastercoin shouldn't affect JR and others commitment as they have already been paid to work on it. Here's hoping anyway.

That said, I'm excited about all these projects. :-)

they are both good

Yeah man....keep waiting.  :D

NEM has the UtopianFuture stigma. I think that is a really huge issue. Nobody wants to be a part of a project of a scammer.

Good that we had BCNext doing it for free.

Total BS..

Really? Having people cheat somewhere is one thing. But having the leader of a project cheating.... That is definitely a no-go and a blocker for future adoption.

No software is the real blocker. Humans are humans, but software can't lie. No software can't lie even more so ;D

Do not tease them. They will have the software, sooner or later... rather later than sooner. ;)

They simply need to copy NRS and rename every NXT to NEM. :D

A decentralized money has no leader. UF does not code and has no thing to do with the core blockchain. If BCNext with his shady IPO is not a blocker, UF issue is certainly not a problem. The guy has one sock account, pretty mild issue.

Actually in his words he said he had "a few."

But I can live with that.

The main problem for NEM is it doesn't exist yet. Once it exists then you can honestly compare it to NXT.

there was no shady IPO and UF did have a "few" accounts ;)

He said he made a few account but there is a only one active account.

Haha yea sure ;) Gonna create 10 accounts, buy 10 stakes and use only 1 ;)

Don't comment if you don't know the facts. Those accounts were created and registered in the phase where registering for a stake was still free. Later when the stake-list was created these accounts weren't added. The accounts were just used to create activity in the thread, something which every coin does.

There's no way you can know he doesn't have other accounts. He probably does. Its just smart to assume so. Its just dumb to assume he doesn't.

ofc he does,  countless of other accounts,  its well known dudes.

~CfA~

Please, I'm begging you, just stop.

Proof ?

u r kidding right?  ur leader states it from his own mouth:


U post the proof its not the case dude,  u need to defend this guy not me.

~CfA~

I don't need to defend him. He made a mistake and paid for that. He had to retire and forfeited all dev. share benefit. What else do you want ? His share would be at least 1.5%= 60 dev. stakes and he lost all that by resigning while he did a lot of things for NEM  up to that day.

good job changing the fucking quote, doesnt change that UP was a scam artist using u as a slave.

hats off to him for that!  hes definitely a financial genious and social engineering master who knows how to use people for his own pleasure and ENRICHMENT PROCESS.


here we go again - click the link on the quote if u wish

~CfA~

Retard. He wrote he made a few sock accounts but don't use and cash out any of them except one active account ghost house. The distribution is still excellent comparing to the Nxt shady IPO and all most everything else out there.

What exactly was shady in the NXT IPO you stupid fuck? It was long enough, everyone had the chance. You are just mad because you missed it, faggot.

@CFA - You're so annoying with your accusations.
Please troll somewhere else - here is nobody who cares about your opinion!
When you hate NEM then leave NEM!

Everybody you've just got to put Come-From-Above on ignore.

We just keep getting suckered back into arguing with him, and this is what he wants.

Attention is what every troll wants.

He might be able to fool some of the noobs but they will learn on their own if they are smart.

You're right.
And this is what I'm doing right now.
I really don't like trolls like him!

Welcome to my ignore-list CFA.

Bye,bye!  ;D

No one cares, lol

1st i dont give a shit,  who are u anyway :D

2nd hiding and ignoring doesnt change the facts, my nifty NEM slave.

the more people put me on ignore the more u prove that u cant face the truth. ;) go ahead !

NEM is an obvious and countlessly debunked scam,  utopianfuture launched NEM to enrich himself and after he noticed community starts to feel betrayed because of the sockpuppet mistake he left the project SO that he can let all of u work as utter slaves for the ENRICHMENT PROCESS his remaining hundreds of stakes.  have fun enriching this smart guy.

way to go, definitely a financial genious this guy.   i wish i had the same idea, this is just absolute ACE.

~CfA~

@Come-from-Above

You say NEM is a scam so why a NEM adress in your signature?

why not profit off it? theres obvious money to be made.
 
~CfA~

I think the NXT is better than NEM

CFA?no time no see,CFB...

The depths of depravity just prooved to be an abyss.

Welcome to Cryptocurrency, newb.

~CfA~

Just like that. Scam at its finest. Sorry for you, but this will stick to people's mind no matter what.

It is the same as the distribution of Nxt. It sticks.

Everyone had the chance to make an account and sent money in the fund address. You sir had the chance too. You missed it because you was an idiot. The process was transparent and UF did what everyone could do. He had no power to prevent anyone making accounts and enrolled. He had 1 sock acc and no evidence of anything else. Name one person he scammed ?

UF was a PR manager. He was anon, shaddy but he did his job. The funding process are clear and open. The list was audited by the public for over a month and 300 acc were returned money. No one can kill a decentralized movement. Could civil right movement be killed if an accountant took some money away? In the end, the thing that counts is 3000 stakeholders and 1200 veteran bitcointalk accounts. That is a world better than NxT 73 account genesis block.

For all those that are not able to able to comprehend my message, here it is again. Please, think twice about what I am trying to convey.

Just like that. Scam at its finest. Sorry for you, but this will stick to people's mind no matter what.

It is the same as the distribution of Nxt. It sticks.

He didn't talk about "killing a movement" at all, his point was of entirely different nature as far as I comprehend it.

why do you call ChuckOne an idiot? how do you even know he "missed" NEM's IPO? Perhaps he wasn't interested?




P.S. pretty useless and boring thread, don't you think?

Very different nature. Distribution problem is about facts, numbers and statistics. NxT had that problem. UF issue is UF problem not NEM. UF made a mistake. NEM has no mistake, perfect block chain. Money of the future.

Can you show me the "perfect block chain" please? Sounds interesting.

You are mean. :D

Since when do people care about that? People need trust to join a project, to commit to a project. His conduct destroyed it for many people. It is human nature and has nothing to do with facts whatsoever.

Sorry but this was the biggest bullshit of today.

No place to trust shady, anon people. Bcnext, UF? Same person? Likely with shady behavior. Trust in numbers, statistics, and block chain.

Beware don't let anon, shady nicknames manipulate you. Do research first.

That was funny! ;D

"Scam at its finest" ?  :)

You are very sensitive, if you react with superlatives to 1 sockpuppet.
Every leader of big organizations or countries or army forces had stretched the rules and made it, coz it benefited the organization, the country or the war.

It is very childish to expect that all the rules are unbreakable and more childish to set so much bigger punishment than the actual deed was.
Sensitive and emotional reactions in this computer-crypto-machine-cold-calculation-world gives an impression that behind of those reactions are some manipulative motives.  :-\

Let´s talk about which one is better when they have both surpassed Bitcoin. So long guys.

Thats what you would like to believe. Less than 70 vs at least a 1000. It is a huge difference.

Same distribution as NxT?  NxT was less than the 73 wallets it often claims to be.  In reality, only like 20 people invested the 1 BTC limit and they each received 40+ million NxT.  The remaining 53 people received way smaller amounts.  There wasn't anything stopping sockpuppets in the original 20, no taint analysis no nothing.   How do we know that BCnext didn't own half of the 20 big stakes?

To receive the same equivalent in NEM one would have had to make 160 sockpuppets (160 million NEM) and somehow avoid being caught by taint analysis, reset your IP and then bypass all the anti-spam features on this forum - a lot of work back in January / February for what was a NxT clone with no value at the time.

Retrospectively it's easy to claim that people would had made a thousand sockpuppets but it's as easy as saying that, if we knew Bitcoin prices today, I would had taken out a $100K loan back in 2009 and would had thrown it all into BTC and then be a billionaire today.

 The reality is that NEM could be 1000 to 3000 unique persons but that makes it the grandest distribution in crypto currency history.  NEM was so grand that it fuelled a wave of egalitarian coins like Community Coin (albeit they had to cancel their distribution short due to a lack of interest). 

yea ... it is strange that the magnitudes' difference is ignored, tho the people here are really trusting the math :)


Copy+paste again :
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ofc a good distribution can be determined. There is a method, but we do not know it. So, even you can't say "it isn't well distributed".
If only one owns all the coins, it is some kind of distribution.
After some time has passed, there will be X owners.

Maybe a good distribution is such that the number of coin owners X increases with a certain speed S (delta(X)/time). X and S need to be such that the coin "lives" = people are interested in it + it has quite stabile value (or at least not -10% in every week) + ...


...

if S_NXT could be calculated eg. for every week, and the most of the NXT owners are satisfied with the distribution, then we can determine a 'good distribution', and that can be an example to all the coins  :)"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  

The same issues have to be written again and again, month after month - thanks this decentralization  ;) Not meaning just NXT forums but others, too.  

Neither.. i'd give away my BTC before i invested in either scam coin .

I do not know which coin you are talking about. I assume you are talking about Nxt. If you want to FUD around on NxT go somewhere else as we discuss here another ecosystem/coin.

Furthermore, learn to read, pal, while I learn to write.

It is the same AS the distribution of Nxt == It is the same problem AS the distribution of Nxt

Nobody says that the distribution of Nxt equals the distribution of NEM.

One reason was that it was not necessary from a sociological point of view.
Another reason is that NEM's distribution will not help it anything.

My point was: UT is to NEM, what the distro of the first NXTs is to Nxt.

Negative. It was proven that UT only used 2 accounts to claim NEM stake.

That is 0,0005 of total distribution, or infinitely small number.

Yeah, prove that somebody has only two sockpuppets. Good luck with that.

Considering information-theory that is simply impossible.

He said he owns a few stakes.

No he didnt, he said he owned a few accounts to post on forum but with only 2 he claimed for stake.

Do you see what I mean?

From a information theory point of view, you need to prove that UT DOES NOT KNOW the passwords of the sockpuppets. Now, you simply cannot prove non-knowledge. Either he has them to use them or he does not. If he uses them, you could prove him to own the sockpuppets. If he does not, you cannot distinguish not-using them from not-having-them.

So, if one could distinguish both cases, then I could prove that he does not have the passwords to an arbitrary account which makes absolutely no sense because we know he has.

That is my last state of affairs.

Apparently you use information theory in a wrong place.
If you accuse someone : he had used sockpuppets against the community, then you have to prove it.

When I followed the audit thread, there was found persons having so few as three or four puppets. From the discussions I got such a feeling that those were accepted, the auditing rejected only if someone had more than five puppets.

Let's not beat a dead horse.  One of the big 20 investors in NxT received 40+ million.  Since there is four times more NEM (1 billion NxT vs. 4 billion NEM), to receive the same equivalent one would have to create 160 sockpuppets.  That is 160 times of bypassing taint analysis, hiding your IP and bypassing the anti-spam features on this forum. . . . all for a coin back in January / February that had no value and was a fork for most of the registration duration. . . and to receive the same share of an early NxT investor who only had to send a single BTC in.

Logically to suggest anyone got away with an unfair share of distribution is unlikely.  In contrast, it would had been incredibly easy to have had 3 sockpuppets in NxT's IPO since there wasn't any taint analysis.  But I couldn't imagine creating 400 sockpuppets just to receive 10% of NEM's market - no one simply does that because of the work involved, we all have better things to do.

Yes, there was rule that if someone sponsored more than 5 accounts, they will be refunded. And from the beginning it was actually allowed by UF to have more than one stake, it was changed after time by community demand and by criticism from some NXTers. I dont even see how UP broke those rules.

And I dont even think that he did something wrong. He was trolling other coin? He has right to voice his opinions on other coins, no?. It was responsible from him towards NEM project to express his opinions privatly - via alter ego account, to not draw undesirable attention and negative response to NEM. It seems just rational and responsible to me.

The whole point of "fair distribution" to me, was not about having perfectly equal shares, but to not have whales, that could manipulate the market easily...I remember that NXT was often accused of market manipulation by whales, UP probably just wanted to avoid it.

This is my personal view of the problem.

The real scandal was him trolling Sim coin.  It would be like Satoshi account being caught trolling the thread of a $hitclone.  That was the real scandal but it was quickly forgotten within 5 minutes.  What emerged was a 'hypothetical scandal' revolving around negative proof that UtopianFuture had a thousand sockpuppets.  He must had been doing cocaine and 20 cups of coffee a day to register 1000 accounts within 28 days, especially to bypass all the anti-sock measures (taint analysis) and the anti-spam features on this website.


As I stated - just to have the influence that a NxT investor (one of the 20 who invested 1 BTC) had, UtopianFuture or anyone would have to create 160 sockpuppets.  If you can create 160 sockpuppets and avoid being caught then arguably you probably deserve those stakes but; in reality, no one has done that due to the sheer labour involved at the time when NEM had no value.  There were probably NxT investors who registered with 3 accounts, so UF would have to create close to 500 socks just to match some guy back in 2013 who randomly threw BTC in.  Have to recall that UF and the developers actually did organizing or developing work.

How many SockPuppets do you have Come-From-Above//TaunSew (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661422.0)?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661438.0

There's your answer.  Read the thread and read the NxT forum.

How do we know you're not Come from Above?  He almost never said anything about NxT (the few things he did was only to counteract his trolling on NEM) and he had a vendetta against me.

Even with sockpuppets, NEM has probably achieved a wide and relatively low variation distribution. There will be those who had a lot of sockpuppets, but how many actually took the effort to log in through all of them, register and send money making them untraceable for a coin which just seemed like one of the many NXT clones? I doubt i ts much.

this thread should be  >  NXT vs NEM vs NHZ vs NXTL(node) vs NAS vs QORA vs XC vs "any POS COIN"

:D

Where is PPC? Do you think, just because it is a dead coin, it does not deserve to be discussed? ;)

Ähm no.

NXT vs NEM

in general nem will be better distributed NXT we should see that in volume.

Many people including me didnt invested becoise of fail dystrybution in NXT we see that in volume.
If NEM will have better volume that will mean something.

Out of 500+ tradeable coins, NXT is currently #9 in total volume traded, so WTH are you blathering about?

i am sure NEM will have a good hit of volume because of the distribution, i am just saying dont ignore the lil ones coming up and rising ...IMO >> NHZ is  a promising one i did my HW on it it has 1 billion  all POS coins just like NXT less than the 4 billion of NEM ;) eh i hope you guys see where i am going with this ...just FYI i am invested  in NXT and NEM heavily....so ah i forgot NHZ is getting help from the cointropolis team ..same team responsible for NXT in payexpo ...i rest my case  :-* ;) >:(

are any NEM stakes for sale in the aftermarket?

Again no. This thread is not about shitclones.

It´s NXT vs NEM

litecoin was a clone look where it is at now... you calling it shit too  ::)

Check out the NXT asset exchange. You can buy a stake there.

Technically it was only pumped when people missed the BTC pump.

The thing is NxT capitalization and volume is very low.  When I was looking at NxT volume it was technically less than NEM.. then it shot way up (like 10x within hours) after I made a post on that subject.

  It looks like huge manipulation from a whale to make it look NxT has actual volume.  

NXT vs NEM, i am sure to choose NEM
better preparation and more fair distribution than NXT
i saw NEM thread and many innovations there
they must wait for months to get stake ;D
and user who got stake don't want sell it for cheap prices

Ahh the good old NEM-shill....

You are one of the most irrational NEMsupporters out there. All the rational ones maybe don't support NXT, but atleast they agree that NXT is superior to what is out there today.

On the other side, most NXTers don't hate NEM like you do NXT, but think its intresting and are somewhat invested...

Yeah NXT and NEM should be friends. Lets hate Qora together  ;D

Only coins that don't offer much need hate and fud-spreading to survive ;)

NXT and NEM will do fine without shills spreading missinformation, or blatant lies

But I love this shitstorms from the Qora-guys  :D

Why do you continuously shit on NXT?

NXT currently has the 9th biggest daily volume out of the hundreds of coins that are currently tradeable. So, what on earth are you comparing NXT to? Bitcoin? yes, compared to Bitcoin, NXT has low volume. Compared to the vast majority of all cryptocurrencies ever produced, NXT's volume is blistering hot right now.

Maybe he compared NXT to NXT in different days...

Maybe. Or maybe he's just very agenda-oriented with his posts. Maybe he doesn't care about providing knowledge so much as making others believe something that isn't true for his own personal gain.

will NEM provide a MGW too like what NXT is working on !!?

I think NXT and NEM can work togther, like Visa and Mastercard (only alot more fair). If you don't like NXT then use NEM, don't like NEM then use NXT. There just won't be one winner in the crypto race.

If cryptos hit $1 trillion (versus $500 billion remittance, $2 trillion gold, $7 trillion dot com bubble of 1990s, $20 trillion retirement, $97 trillion investments, $400 trillion derivatives..)

Even if BTC owns $800 billion of that, that $200 billion split between the remaining alternates would make us all 'well off' (with quotations, having a few dozen million ain't bad when the typical average person in the world - even the 99% in the developed 'rich countries' - has almost no savings).  You can conceivable have a $40 billion NEM / NxT / Darkcoin relative to a $120 billion LTC and a $780 billion BTC.  Mind you, that's assuming the status quo of Bitcoin King and Litecoin Prince can hold... both could foreseeable be "myspaces" being replaced by a "Facebook" / "VKontakte"

if bitcoin = king, litecoin = prince, what would that make nxt?  http://coinmarketcap.com

Doge would be the court's jester or the evenings' meal.  NxT would be a Duke?

check out Vericoin shooting up from less than a cent to 33 cents in less than a month ....about to be all POS ..son of bitch i keep missing these moves !! >:( :'(

If everyone would actually contribute to NXT instead of trying to make a clone everday, NXT would surpass Bitcoin. 

Litecoin is done, and I think some Darkcoin 2.0 will take over from Darkcoin.

NEM+NXT will probably do well. Depends on how much of NEM's promise is actually delivered.

yea ... idk why there are so many coins, which likely do not bring any new features to this crypto world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency
"By May 2014 there were more than 275 cryptocurrencies available"

If a coin just a clone, it is for "gaming", pump&dump and increasing the traders' repertory.

Why will everybody do that to profit the NXT holders?

Because most (all) of the clone-creators hold NXT themself or atleast raised them in the IPOs....

So yeah, nobody is self-less and will work for nothing to gain, but I think there are good incentives ;)

maybe god?

NXT is still in its infancy devs can still buy NXT then help contribute.  Everyone is trying to make quick money but they could contribute to NXT and be rich in a few years.  If all the devs working on clones come together and work on NXT the price could go up 100x of the course of the next few years.

Buy NXT and contribute we all know these clones will not work!

NXT needs the competition to stay on top. Clones are all great for NXT!

Maybe investors are not that interested in NXT because it already has increased in value so much (from launch).  Everyone is always looking for the investment that can give 10x returns?

If you are looking for an investment gives 10x returns and you won´t be scammed for sure, than NXT is the right thing for you. Todays marketcap will be a joke when NXT is ahead of BTC.

That´s right. And 10 x is just the beginning.

I'd like to believe you, problem is NXT has been going down for a solid month.

You shouldn't throw huge figures out there without any sort of analysis to back it up, because then you just sound like a pumper.

Tell my why I should believe in NXT when the NXT millionaires are content to let the price keep falling.

There's a handful of coins out there with some interesting new developments, why choose NXT?

What coins?

I have stopped following other coins as NXT and NEM seem to be playing the lead guitars :)

You say 1 month and I say 6 months.  NxT hasn't quite recovered to when it used to be a stable 8 to 9 cents back in early 2014, the price went off the cliff after the public became aware of NxT's distribution.  Please don't say that the 8 / 9 cents was due to Bitcoin being $1200, Bitcoin back then was only in the 800 range and it even went down to $650ish in February.  By all indication NxT is a shadow of its' former self.  


I don't think any rich angel investor will come in to save NxT, especially not when they've had three major theft incidents in the past month alone  (that is extreme high risk, no?  Even moreso than other coins).

Not that it matters to the "right" people.  All the NxT whales have had 8 months to diversify their get-quick-rich fortunes into BTC, LTC, Maidsafe, Counterparty, Darkcoin and NEM.  Only people who are losing out from NxT are the numerous bagholders who spent real $Fiat.  The money isn't gone, it simply went towards buying Teslas, Mansions and crypto diversification portfolios for a few NxT whales.

NEM is a clone what will happen to it six months down the road?  Will they continue to copy NXT features? There is no point in NEM currencies like Ripple, Counterparty, Cloaksend, Mastercoin, NXT, and MaidSafe are more original than NEM

Try this Alpha first http://forum.nemcoin.com/index.php?topic=2230.0 Does this look like a clone to you ?

NEM is not a fork.  It has features and innovations which NxT does not have.  For instance, this recent major theft in NxT would not be possible in NEM as NEM does not utilize an easily hackable brain wallet like NxT.  NEM utilizes multiple layers of authentications in order to access and move funds.

As well those coins are either PoW or PoS.  NEM has PoI which is the most innovative alternative to PoS to date, the only thing rivaling it would be Bitshares' system (which you failed to mention - providing you obviously don't know much about alternative cryptos or your information is 7 months out of date).

Nice try, you thought you were smart because you saw some NEM registration thread from January before it was discovered the NxT source code was sloppy and full of errors so they decided to move away from forking.  The NODE team made the same conclusion about the NxT code, as did others.

You're absolutely wrong and you understand nothing about trends. NXT has barely even been a coin for 6 months.

Furthermore, I don't understand what good you think you are doing for your (apparently massive) NEM investment by constantly bashing NXT. NEM would be nothing without NXT. NEM is currently backed by nothing other than NXT and a bunch of promises.

You said NEM is working on some new features that distinguish it from being a NXT clone yet you don't bother to mention what they are.

I don't know what agenda you think you're promoting as you are all over the map with your viewpoints.

Lmfao - NxT goes back way further than 6 months, don't go with this "official launch" BS.  I had NxT in my wallet in 2013.  You can't pretend that NxT launched in February or whatever your convenient date is.

You're just a bagholder who bought in at 8+ cents and have been waiting for NxT to recover.  Of course you'll be bullish but in reality the NxT whales and people like me who bought under 3 cents are only selling.

Aren't you the one who likes to impress noobs with your deep, deep understanding of reason and philosophy by always undercutting their arguments on the grounds that they are logical fallacies?

Way to counter my argument. NXT price wasn't higher in its pre-exchange days, BTW, I don't know what reality you are remembering but its not this one.

So what point is it exactly that you think you are making when you cut down on NXT with each and every message you write?

+1 to nutidah......TS is starting to be a joke, even to the NEM community.

Heres some reading for him:

http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/07/nxtmax-coin-startcoin-and-txtcoinsnow-and-the-global-mobile-virtual-network-operator-mvno/

Max Keiser is a real joke on this forum.  He's been pumping and dumping coins like Max Coin and Quark for a very long time.  When Keiser tried to pump Darkcoin - it triggered a selling dump, lmao!

If crypto currencies were securities then Keiser likely would had gone to jail already for having his hand in the equivalent of penny stock scams.  If we go by Keiser's track record, in which every coin he advertises or tries to pump goes to ruin, then NxT isn't far from a collapse.

You buy NEM stakes on the NXT Asset Exchange. Nuff said.

[/quote]

NEM is a clone what will happen to it six months down the road?  Will they continue to copy NXT features? There is no point in NEM currencies like Ripple, Counterparty, Cloaksend, Mastercoin, NXT, and MaidSafe are more original than NEM
[/quote]

Actually if you were around for long enough you wouldnt be saying that. If any coin is copying things its NXT. It was born out of BCNext envy of Ripple (you can see it in his main post) from whom he copied entire premine idea, then he copied POS from PeerCoin, then he copied decentralized exchange from Ripple, then Alliases from Ripple, now Gateways from Ripple and not to mention colored coins.

Go to their forum and read how their main developer come from above and beyond is openly talking how he is watching NEM to copy from it same as he did with copying from other coins.

Other then digital goods store (which is frustration since no normal store accepts nxt, and will probably be a land for thiefs and scammers same as asset exchange) which idea was originally from next?

atoni, still butthurt? go see a doctor, haha :D

NXT's PoS algo has nothing to do with Peercoin's.
Peercoin has centralized checkpoints, NXT does not.

You can't copy a decentralized exchange from Ripple, because Ripple is not decentralized. You can copy an exchange, but exchange is something that has been around for thousands of years, haha, it's like a wheel that was invented long ago.

You can't premine a 100% PoS coin, because it cannot be mined in the first place and all PoS coins must be generated all at the same time.

Aliases, gateways, yeah, he copied those, so what, both are natural developments to make life easier for users, expect a lot more things to be copied that add value to NXT.

Still butthurt?

I didnt say he copied algo but idea.

Ripple is fully decentralized currency.

Then premine is just semantics, he copied the idea of generating all coins at once from ripple.

I told you already I am not butthurt, I am laughing, am just annoyed to all the lies nxt people spread around.

They should start by changing their web page which still says nxt is fastest crypto and that there is no fees on asset exchange (but I guess lies are nxt business model).

So will you be investor in atoni888Buy asset? It will be honest 100%, same as everything on nxt lol

Will someone finally tell me 1 thing that came from nxt which is original? (except digital goods store, which will be bullsh.t as we all know it)

He might have copied the idea, so what. Peercoin's PoS implementation is faulty, he improved on it. Peercoin copied the idea from real world in the first place, it's all about going and improving the older inventions to make them more advanced. Are you surprised? That's how the world works, sorry to break it to you this way.

Ripple is not decentralized, it's distributed, feel free to look up the difference.

Go tell them to change the web page, which web page are you referring to, by the way? There is no official website for NXT, it's decentralized, you can set up your own website, that would be same as others, and you can put on the webpage whatever you want. There is only a semi-official forum at nxtforum.org

What do you offer with your asset? Tell me all terms, I'll think about it.

Finally sane person who agrees that everything in NXT is copy. So where is that innovation then?

I guess only butthurts here are people that bought nxt at 9 cents to see their investment go south and now have to spread lies about "originality" and "innovation" around forum. Well, I wish them luck with their bags.

EDIT: I thought that www.nxt.org is official web page. Sorry if its just some nxt pumpers idea. its innovative like nxt to spread lies around, rofl

You can call me insane, but I didn't say what you claim I said about everything in NXT being a copy. You just made it up :)

Investments are risky and fluctuate, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Bitcoin also lose about the same from its all time high? What do you invest in that always goes upwards only?

No, you thought wrong, there is no official website for NXT. There is only semi-official forum where developers post updates to the bitbucket repository of new NXT releases, everything else is decentralized in NXT, get used to it :)

Well, you said that he copied pos, decentralized exchange, colored coins, aliases, gateways.....so what is left? lol

I see, so nxt is just bunch of kids setting up web sites with lies on them?

Which web site should I trust about nxt then? Can you show me even 1 which doesnt have tons of lies on it?

You shouldn't trust any web site on the Internet. I thought you were around long enough to know it. Read the code and make your own conclusions. Oh, and did I mention you should stay away from decentralized exchanges?

And I educated my self about Ripple, and I found out that everyone can run rippled server to reach consensus. There is already over 1000 people around the world running it so its pretty decentralized.

I see, so www.nxt.org is not trustable site. interesting.

I'm not sure initial distribution matters (and I'm even less sure it should). What we should be comparing is the distribution both currencies have on a given calendar day. So when NEM launches, it has a 1000 or so holders, and on the same day Nxt has 43,000 or so. How does that make NEM better?

I'm also not convinced that an initial wide distribution helps, especially if a lot of those people got their coins for free. Many of them will cash in immediately for free money, and many more will sit back and let other people make the currency worth something. You'll get a lot of bystander apathy. I admit, I'm doing this with other coin give-aways. Why not? Part of why Nxt has been successful is that the relatively few Nxt whales knew the onus was on them to make the currency a success.

We will se it in Volume and price stability after lunch.
NEM vs NXT markets won't lie.
I bet on NEM :D no such cappital conentration like in NXT

In his own words...


I can find the post where he says Peercoin is flawed and will improve on it if you like. He took the best ideas and merges them to create something great.

CfB commented that Transparent Forging is the only true innovation, the others were existing ideas. But then Nxt is the only one implmenting them successfully so I don't really see the merit in this line of stone throwing.

Hey Devphp! I thought I had an epiphany and that I finally found something innovative in NXT that is not shitcloned from other coins, but later I figured its false alarm. None the less, it brought me to brilliant idea and I finally know what atoni888Buy asset will do, so I am asking you to be my partner!

In my dream I thought that NXT distribution was actually innovative! I will create all coins then spread them to my 5 alts and start selling on exchange (I guess we all know who is BCNext simply by looking who responded to his messages first). But then when I woke up I figured, shit, he copied that too from Ripple (he must have really been in love with ripple since he ripped off almost all his ideas from them). So that lead me to disappointment, although by your logic how everyone builds some of his own, you can argue that involvement of 5 alts was his innovation (as ripple chose transparency in distribution), but I will disregard it since anonymity is big thing in crypto so its not really innovative to use alts.

But.....that lead me to brilliant idea!

Atoni888Buy asset will be used to promote innovation in NXT! We will collect 100 BTC on Asset Exchange and make 100 BTC bounty (that is 62k USD, quite nice bounty) to person that makes something in NXT that is not shitcloned from other coins!

What do you say?

I will be something like BCNext in this, I gave my name and cloned the idea of bounty, but it will actually produce something really good for Nexter community! I am sure they will all chip in to remove that stigma of nxt copying every other shit coin, and to finally have at least I from Innovation!

To show how serious I am, I will send 1000 nexter to you so that I am not involved in any financing (since people wouldnt trust me), and you will create the asset. That will be my donation to the project (beside name and idea, well idea is copied from general bounty idea but who cares).

Are you in?

Can you do a TL:DR version?

No, I don't do partnerships, especially with someone who has such shitty ideas :D Don't bother writing such long articles next time :)

It will be interesting.

That would be amazing. Historically, wealth tends to concentrate. The Pareto Principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle) says that after enough time, 80% of the assets are owned by 20% of the people. I will be astonished if NEM somehow overcomes this aspect of human nature. More likely, even if NEM does have a "better" distribution at launch, it will quickly get worse, as some people dump for a quick profit while others, who have more faith in the coin, buy up. You're always going to get a mixture of rich and poor people.

Shit, for moment I really felt important, I was like chief instigator of next innovation, or atoninext if you will :)

Anyway, despite your rejection I really like you and wish you all best with your investments! Good luck!

I can't say I like you, but still wish you all the best and good luck ;)

Sorry to inform you but my partner bailed out so the project is currently on hold :(

Sorry for your loss but if you had a partner then why did you ask devphp to join you?

I hoped devphp would be my partner. But its ok, I am already over it. And maybe he changes his mind so we can together contribute for nexter innovation to finally start.

You don't make any sense when you post :D

I don't understand this sock obsession as NxT's preferred vehicle of FUD as it's a weak choice.  To match the power of a NxT whale, who acquired 5% of NxT for 1 BTC ($150 in October 2013), one would have to create 160 sockpuppets in NEM or 40 sockpuppets in NODE.

 Mind you nothing stopped someone from creating 3 NxT whales as there was no taint analysis.  So one would have to create 480 sockpuppets in NEM or 120 sockpuppets in NODE.

As for people "free loading".  If I really wanted to make a point, I could search through the NxT forum and pull quotations from senior members and developers about them complaining about multiple NxT whales who never contributed or logged in since 2013.  Handing over 5% of a coin to random people doesn't bode well, especially when they're just sitting there waiting to be made a billionaire and people on the NxT forum are complaining about a lack of funding.


The reality is both NEM and NODE went through extensive audits and no large sockmasters were ever found - the biggest sock masters only had around 5 socks and there weren't many of those.

Nobody abused sock creation back in January for what is a worthless coin.  Sure there were people who created 1-5 socks but relative to overall distribution these people have no influence or power compared to a NxT whale.


Two rights simply don't make a wrong here.  Repeating "omg sockpuppets" doesn't make it so, especially when NxT itself isn't immune to that argument and never mind any socks in NxT have a far more disproportional effect (like one guy could own easily own 20% of NxT just by spending 4 BTC back in 2013) than any socks in NEM or NODE.

YAWN
this thread still going lol

+1


While arguing who has the fairest distribution is fun  :D until we devise a way to get crypto into the hands of a significant number of people who won't dump it immediately, we're wasting our time. (Someone crudely says we are arguing over the winner of 'the tallest midget' competition here)

The fact is, if crypto takes off then we are all the 1% and we will have to listen to millions of people tell us how unfair the rise of crypto was as they weren't even aware it was happening.

So I also add my *yawn* to yaunSeW's tedious essays  :D

It will be even *unfair* when millions of people have an account and funds.

Just think about it, in 100 years 95+% of the people living then are not alive today. Do you think they will be happy with the distribution today?

Well shit, you can't make something "fair".... Nothing is fair in the world, and 70, 3000, or 1 million. Everything is unfair, and using that as an argument is stupid, the only thing that matters is network effects and fact is that NXT has more active participants than NEM will have at start.

So stop blarring please and concetrate on making NEM a great coin.

No need for straw man arguments.  NEM's distribution was never about distributing something to all 7 billion people on the planet.

It's to ensure that the coin's distribution wasn't divided in a cronyism fashion and to ensure stability by preventing whales.  



If we take NxT's example - only 20 accounts invested the 1 BTC but we don't know who those 20 accounts are, it could just be 10 people and 6 of them are BCnext and/or his friends.  

I always forget why I shouldn't argue with you.. You are always using semantics to make your argument and don't see the big picture that make your argument invalid all the time.

There's no equivocation in my argument.
Your retort with an ad nauseum and an accusation of semantic arguing is not a counterargument but a red herring.

You keep on spewing lies about NEM and clearly ignore that NxT has severe flaws.  If you don't like logic or choose to ignore it then let's look at the math.  NxT, before the public knew about it's terrible distribution, was $0.09.  NxT, after the public knew about the distribution and started planning forks, went down to $0.025 by April 2013.

NxT's main rhetoric is that it's innovative but at the same time it's flawed rhetoric as there are multiple coins as innovative as NxT and/or the mainstream user does not care about innovation beyond a marketing point (as people almost never use the complete functionality of their smartphones, computers or websites like Facebook).

I think he's truly only interested in arguing.

NEM is better than NAS i think  :)

Qora is better than NXT or NEM and is going to explode up soon. There argument solved.

Thread locked.