Bitcoin Forum

                                                                       http://systemssymbols.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/lucifer.jpgg

I want to tell you guys before you read this,  I belong to an Hindu family but I am not a very religious person and I believe in science and tech more than anything!

But I could not sleep yesterday guys..this is why

My uncle(dad's friend) came home after a long time, He is a doctor, knows little about tech and he is a converted christian( from hinduism), he is now deep into theology. I decided I should tell him about bitcoin and convince him to make him buy  bitcoin!

We watched  Rise and rise of bitcoin, about the price history charts and all good side of information out there regarding bitcoin. He was so excited to listen and asked a lot of questions and I answered them all( felt like Andreas Antop for a moment). At last he asked who invented bitcoin? I said about Satoshi and all the mystery behind them! I could see his face turn deeply skeptical! He then left to sleep!

The next day he came to me and asked me to say  about the early creators of bitcoin, I told him about Hal finney, the sad death and cryo preservation! He said to find me if there is a political moment or an ideology that unites all those very early adopters( finney, Nick szabo, etc) and the least i could come with is Extropianism and hence we began taking a lot about transhumanism, singularity and so on for a lot of time.

The Extropian Roots of Bitcoin (https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/extropian-roots-bitcoin/)

Finney subscribing to extropians at lucifer.com (http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q99/2484.html)

See the extropy institute is recommended @ lucifer.com (http://www.lucifermedia.com/sites.php)

the next day(yesterday) he just came to me and said "In my life I wont ever touch this bitcoin, it is just satan's tool to create a one world currency for the one world government. Satoshi is just satan mark my words he will never be revealed or even if revealed it will be a proxy becuase this is the way satan works! from behind". He said you will become a millionaire or even billionaire if you hold on even a few bitcoins, because it is sure to take over the world.

He advised me to search the internet for the relevance of this extropianism and satanism and you will find the truth!

Now the more I search the more it gets scary, I am harcore pro transhumanism and pro singularity but am shocked to find that the theological world has this opposing view towards extrpianism, bitcoin, singularity and transhumanism!

Transhumanism and the Singularity: Elite Obsession with the Übermensch (http://extraordinaryintelligence.com/transhumanism-and-the-singularity-elite-obsession-with-the-ubermensch/)

The Singularity: Science’s Quest For Immortality And Satan’s Deception (http://beginningandend.com/the-singularity-sciences-quest-for-immortality-and-satans-deception/)

THE POLITICS OF TRANSHUMANISM AND THE
TECHNO-MILLENNIAL IMAGINATION, 1626–2030 (http://www.trincoll.edu/Academics/centers/TIIS/Documents/Hughes--April%203.pdf)


Its a dilema, a big one! Shall we taste the fruit? shall we take the blu pill

There is a big flaw in your uncles logic.
When I get this right, he thinks, that satan is working in the shadows, that's why Satoshis identity will never be revealed.
But bitcoin is as open as anything could be. How does that mix?

No he just said satan(satoshi in this case) would not reveal himself! I think the open nature of blockchain need not be confused with this

I still don't see how that mix.  How does Satan profit from something, nobody can control?

maybe satan running a secret very large mining facility in hell and can do a stealth 51% attack so that it can double spend whenever it likes to do so!

that's the profit motive..

please lol

Now I am reading through the 20 page long research paper by the sociologist James.J.Huges..

the paper argues this sort of tension between technology(bitcoin) and religion could morph into violence in the coming future!


THE POLITICS OF TRANSHUMANISM AND THE
TECHNO-MILLENNIAL IMAGINATION, 1626–2030 (http://www.trincoll.edu/Academics/centers/TIIS/Documents/Hughes--April%203.pdf)

Read enough crap and you will find something to back-up your uncle  ;)

So, Satan was harvesting souls for thousands of years, so he can use their hashing power to control the blockchain?

may be satan wants more money! he could be really underpaid for that punishment job

I think your uncle is Satan.

why you don't want me to sleep the night peacefully?

I think that generally you can also blame (even more) Wall street, World bank, White house and UN as main evil forces in the world, if you use this logic.
Business is about money and earning so if this is the sin, what is the other option?
Live in the jungle, without money, jobs, houses etc.
I don't think that you should listen this religious fanatics.
Bitcoin belong to everybody, not just some limited group of people or organization, so we have here more financial freedom and democracy than with any other world currency.

Yes, I agree with your uncle.

So he went from believing in hundreds of arbitrarily made up gods to one arbitrarily made up god? Wow, must be something in that, right?


How does his being deeply entrenched in the myths and legends of human imagination bear any comparison to, you know, the actual reality that actually exists, for which the ideas of gods, demons, angels and ghosts have never ever ever ever had any evidence of their existence outside of human imagination?

So he believes in made-up-stuff(tm), changes his mind to believe in other made-up-stuff, then asserts something about a fictional character being responsible for bitcoin?

Yeah, he sounds like he's definitely on to something.


How about you start from the premise that you cannot simply make stuff up, and see if you're able to even get to the point of anything paranormal or ooky-spooky able to withstand critical analysis?

Next it'll be shape-shifting interdimensional reptilians who are secretly running this global conspiracy, nah, nobody is that stupid to believe such a laughable notion, right, Right?

Jeez, people, try thinking for yourselves instead of believing every loon who declares themselves privy to 'super special secrets' about our reality.

Learn what logical fallacies are.

Your uncle sounds like an idiot tbh

Hi,

The topic you posted about is quite interesting to me.

Unfortunately it is a very hard one to discuss and the reason why I considered to directly message you rather than posting on the board: there are too many people in the world with very strong emotions and not enough vocabulary to discuss the topic of religion and existentialism.

I would like to offer my opinion on you uncle's dilemma.

I think he is both right and wrong.
In a way any endevour that tries to enhance humanity could be seen as Satanism. Or at least Luciferianism.
Lucifer was after all the light and knowledge bringer. The first sin in the bible was where humans wanted to have knowledge and become more like God.
When they all banded together to build a tower, God punished them and broke them up by confusing them and their language to stop them "from becoming like us."

Your uncle works as a doctor. This could be interpreted more as working in the realm of Lucifer than of old testament God.
Reason I say this is because in this interpretation anything that goes against the natural order of things is working against God and using science to fight disease is one of those things. If he uses the internet this is the same as taking a bite from the fruit of wisdom. (In fact if he uses an Apple product it even has a symbol of a fruit with a bite taken from it.) If he has published any medical literature, it is the same as helping build the tower of Babel.

That is why the Amish live the way they live. It explains a lot of why some groups of people do what they do.
Unfortunately most people don't actually think about it deep enough and accept all the implications of their chosen ideology.

A true follower of the Abrahamic old testament god would be entitled to live like an animal in the way that they perceive that god created them. It is the epitome of survival of the fittest and in that world the vulnerable die of disease and the weak suffer at the hands of the strong. This is the natural order.
In a transhumanist idealogy we aim to become more than animals and we see the potential. This comes with its own dangers and we risk (and in fact aim for) losing our humanity. As you can see from bible stories, we are warned against trying to do this again and again. Floods, calamities etc.

Jesus was quite different and reinterpreted the old testament for us. In Jesus philosophy we look after the weak and care for the sick. This is contrary to the old testament god. Loving each other and forgiving enemies is not what the old testament was about. You could see Jesus as the messiah who gave us the ideology to transcend our previous animal instincts, him being a transhumanist himself then. This might be one of the reasons he was killed by the ancient Jews who lived in the old system.
On the basis of Christianity, the western world was built which includes airplanes, ipads and wifi.
This is a spirit of cooperativeness and better communication and caring. It goes against our baser human instincts. It seeks to end war.
Bitcoin is a part of that and so I see it as in line with Christian teachings.
But as I said earlier, it is also against the old testament god and in line with actions that our ancestors warn us about.

With everything comes risk.
With international travel and airplanes we run the risk of pandemics. Like Ebola.

How I personally reconcile these two points of view:
I see Bitcoin as a positive force in the world. It is not evil. It is unifying and empowers the weak and poor. It is in line with the philosophy of a doctor.
I realize that humanity is a system that we don't understand. Reality is something we don't understand. We make mistakes and civilization have been wiped out before. This might happen again and if it does it is meant to happen and the will of God. With this uncertainty we carry on.

Edit for clarity:
Please when commenting on this post don't assume it completely describes my belief system. I believe God does not exist.
My aim was not to discuss my beliefs but to discuss the conflict his uncle is experiencing and show how within his belief system I think it is warranted but still reconcilable.

We understand plenty, that which is yet to be understood does not warrant making-shit-up(tm) and calling it a fact.

Right, so we know various civilizations have come and gone before, some we know the cause of their demise, others not, yet you want to claim your mythical super-being, for which not one iota of evidence exists, 'wills' these things to happen.

Do you see how you are just making-shit-up(tm) and asserting it like a fact?

lol
fail ;)

Lol
yeah.

Please see Edit added :)

Wrong! If bitcoin was satanic I would have:
12 345 678, 666 666 21 BTC in my wallet.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Satoshi is the digital Messiah of finance. Something like Jesus but then on another level  :D

thanks for the entertainment guys.

Feel free to tell your Uncle, he may be right about digital currency fulfilling prophesy in the future. 

It is definitely  too close to what Revelation 13:16-17 seems to prophesy.    But until the rulers of the world incorporate crypto and enforce it as law to receive a microchip with digital wallet in your right hand or head,  feel free to bitcoin on.     After all its written and will happen no matter if you uncle chooses to use it in the meantime or not.

In fact, Rockefeller read the bible and found out there was pitch (oil) in the middle east.  He drilled for oil and the rest is history.   We likewise can read rev 13  that seems pretty clear the world will incorporate a digital currency in microchips.  Could be 100 years away or few years away.  I will profit from it and use it for good in the meantime.

so bitcoin on in Jesus name.

 Kobayashi aka Satoshi is a friend of Keyser Soze aka Satan.

You fall to read signs the 6th month high must be $666. Then we can proceed.

So, version of your uncle is very funny  ;D, I think that Us dollar is a satanic currency (see banknote and look at much illuminati symbol). Anyway, people that invented Bitcoin is angels, not devils, because we have possibility to save our planet economy.

Satan is alive and well and is absolutely involved in BTC - who isn't??  :o  
Look at all of the evil that is involved in bitcoin. But, like in all things in life, you have a choice to use it for good or bad... and just like in life, those evils are all around.

All that being said, does it say somewhere in the bible that Satan wants to create a one world currency with a one world government?  or how would he draw this conclusion?   Excuse my religious ignorance.  ???

EDIT: Might have found my answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/one-world-government.html

EDIT #2: Ok, so after reading the bible references, still not sure I can draw the same conclusions as your uncle. I can possibly see a one world government being prophesied, but the universal form of control for buying/selling involves some type of mark on the right hand or forehead, so that no one can buy/sell unless they have the "mark".....  why would we need to do that with bitcoin?  

The greatest trick The Church ever pulled was to convince the world The Devil was the bad guy.

Argumentation is wrong. Bitcoin has never been intended to be the only world currency, it's open source and many clones exist (litecoin, zetacoin, the list goes on). The reason Satoshi hide his identity is that he does not want to be killed by governments or bankers. Do you know how many bankers have "committed suicide" ?

Oh please if Bitcoin is Satanic then it kind of makes every other currency in the world Satanic too. After all the other currencies were created with the same notion but things changed. The same will happen with Bitcoin things will change. Please do not mix Science And Religion there has been enough blood shed in the name of religion against Science. We are not here to destroy your beliefs if there might be any...they are yours.

Makes sense. God is the ultimate authoritarian and Satan was the first antiauthoritarian. If Satan wanted to undermine the authoritarians on Earth, what better way than create Bitcoin? If today's Earthly authorities follow God's example, I expect all us Bitcoiners to be cast into the dark web. But don't worry. It'll be fun in there.

The next paragraph is true.

The first paragraph is false.

I can't seem to find any relevance between evil and bitcoin. Maybe one day people will go to the extent of killing each other or creating a conflict so that they can get hold of bitcoin. It will be so precious like the example that we see in gold that throughout history bad things have happened because of the yellow metal. I don't know i could be wrong. Nothing to backup thus far but only thing i can see happening as i said people would do anything some day if bitcoin gets too rare and precious ;D

this is what religious people say in terms of the end time in relation to science  and tech!

electronic democracy - one world government

internet of things -- all seeing network

bitcoin - one world currency

SINGULARITY- the birth of satan( the most powerful AI)


Extropians- the people who bring all these to the world..

A powerful counter argument that only will collapse at the event of singularity, if its not satan then everything will be ok..


Satan or not satan just hodl on to your bitcoin guys...sure it is going to take to moon

Religious nuts are nuts, ignore them they are complete morons.

Its not that he doesn't want to reveal himself, but you have to be a Borg in order communicate with him

Honestly, your uncle is not the first person to think so and he won't be the last. It seems to be a mark of hardcore Christians that they mistrust any new thing that comes down the pike, especially if they don't understand it. This is pretty much my answer: http://banksworstfear.com/bitcoin-mark-beast/

If you're taking religion seriously with anything to do with bitcoin (or anything for that matter), you fail, sorry but it's true.
 8)

We are not just flesh&bones. Anyone can believe in what he wants, as long as he doesn't harm others.

If BTC or any coin is to be used in a microchip inside the body, then it is no longer freedom that BTC promotes, but its slavery.

But that will happen due to government and BTC is not meant to be ruled by the government....but by the people. And free people will object to have a chip implant.

There doesn't need to be any violence if both sides commit to the non-aggression principle.

Were you aware of libertarianism as an ideology common to many of the early Bitcoin proponents and adopters?  Satoshi himself referenced it:
http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/12/

Perhaps you could have mentioned libertarianism to your uncle instead of transhumanism and he would have found it more palatable.

Many Christians find libertarianism and the non-aggression principle completely compatible with (and even implied by) their faith.

That is a brilliant insight.

In fact, the other currencies are much more evil and fit the idea better, because they were all implemented with force and coercion.  Nobody is coerced into using Bitcoin.

A cursory glance at Revelation 13-14 reveals that receiving the "mark of the beast" includes worshiping the beast, which would explain why the mark would be anathema to the monotheistic faith of Christianity.  There is no worship involved in using Bitcoin (at least not for most of us!)  State currency, on the other hand, is instituted by governments that are fond of receiving reverence and allegiance and behavior and emotions that could be easily described as "worship":

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/07/laurence-m-vance/no-government-glory-and-praise-music/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/how-dare-they-adulterate-our-nationalist-idolatry/

So, honestly, which form of currency fits the "mark of the beast" idea more?

Just curious, why did you go to the trouble of hunting up an illustration for your post?

Sounds like something my mom would say. I do hope he's right about the getting rich part though!

Neither God nor Satan exist. No need to look any further. End of story.

40 years ago the microwave was satan's playground and tv was satans work 60-70 years ago.  Anything inventive there will always be some nutjob claiming its satanic.

I usually make my post with illustrations and  decorations..

check these

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=804270.0
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=804270.0)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=723537.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=723537.0)

Only until churches/religious organisations learn to accept bitcoin. It's already happening btw:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-church-becomes-first-in-the-uk-to-accept-bitcoins-for-its-collection-9118955.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-church-becomes-first-in-the-uk-to-accept-bitcoins-for-its-collection-9118955.html)

microwave  still is

Clearly, bitcoin can be used for good or evil.  There are very
few things that are universally 'Satanic'.  Mostly good or evil
is in the heart and intention of the person.

So, in my humble opinion, I think your uncle is
seeing something that isn't there and projecting
his own ideas about "evil" onto Bitcoin.

Like others have said, there are very clear,
simple reasons why Satoshi is anonymous.

Also, not all Bitcoiners think alike.
I personally am not into transhumanism
whatsoever.

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm not religious any more, although there are religious people and philosophies which I still deeply respect.  I was born into a minority Christian sect which I am now estranged from. 

Here's what I learned, when I was very young, about Shaitan (whom most of Christianity calls Satan).  It was only considerably later that I began to question it, and discovered that it's not what everyone else learned.  I don't know whether or not it is relevant to the current discussion, but it's at least an interesting view of the conflict between God and Satan that very few have heard. 

Hum.  I am completely unable to find this text in any computer-readable format anywhere.  I guess I'll have to type it in.

makes much relevence..in deep thinking

Dont believe everything your uncle says.  :D

Well, you can believe your uncle that Satoshi's real identity will never be revealed.  I think that's definitely true. 

Beyond that, I'm glad you found the passage relevant.  Although I'm still not sure what it has to do with the question you asked, and I think it's good as philosophy and poetry of a sort rather than believing it as literal truth myself, I felt that it is somehow relevant. 

The flaw in your logic is there is no God.

Exactly

This should be a politics and society topic as well amusing enough

But it fits in Bitcoin discussion either way I like it this one seems fun it possibly could be the devils fruit since it does move us closer to a universal single currency also known as the one world currency.

Some of the apocalyptic stuff is off but Hal and the others do want to use cryo to come back and are Extroprians the other main root being Cypherpunks! which is the ideology shared among them.

http://www.wired.com/2014/08/hal-finney/
Finney was also an avowed libertarian and well-known figure within the cypherpunks.
Empowering individuals with encryption, preserving privacy, and foiling surveillance.
No demons there ^_^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk

Either way the discussion of the end times its fruition is still a bit off from now so fear not the end times are a coming but not for a few decades.
^_^

I think bitcoin is sent from god instead of satan because it will free us from the insanity on wall street.. kind of a nudge in the right direction.

Fair point if anything Wall Street is still a Gordon Gecko Bernie Madoff Dog eat Dog world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-69_ncALA0&list=UUz1gDjOYJ02YbG8_nEtq-gA

You know Bitcoin pays for beatings :P

An offshoot is that society doesn't know how to talk with each other nowadays outside of work and schools (I'm not counting your Bar runs) which is why we need churches for social interactions perhaps a small nudge towards a more attractive meetup without all the partying as well.

Oh and no Boy Band Commonalities ^_^
(Felt like putting in a mention lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnYG2EOFEDU&index=1&list=UUz1gDjOYJ02YbG8_nEtq-gA

Did anybody inform the church? They accepting BTC ---> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=825969.0

So the QR Code is the mark of the Animal? And BTC is the one world currency? What is VISA and Master Card? Or the eye on the dollar Bill? {Fiat}

Are ALL types of money not the root of all EVIL?

Having 400 different types of Alt coins nulify this statement, of having one world currency. Soon we would see, countries moving from their fiat currency to a digital version, based on the BTC protocol or even their own protocol in my opinion, so this would also stop the move towards a one world currency.

FIAT will stay with us for many years to come, because 3rd world countries have no infrastructure to support digital money.  ;D

Your uncle is right. If you use Bitcoin your soul is going to solidify into a giant gummy bear and be eaten by satanic fat girls at the Torrid store in the shopping mall. Now send me all your Bitcoins before satan shoves a hot pitchfork up your corn crack.

Hell ain't a bad place to be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCe0TQEvTgU

http://pitchfork-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/content/ac_dc_highway_to_hell1.jpeg?wmode=transparent

I've heard all the theories possible on this. Namely, Satoshi is the NSA, Satoshi is the Rothchilds+Rockefellers, Satoshi is Obama, Satoshi is Lucifer, Satoshi is Dorian Nakomoto... there is nothing new to say, what the hell is next?

We will just have to wait till he reveals himself.  :)

Its a ocean of possibilities..please contribute some for satoshistories

http://www.reddit.com/r/satoshistories (http://www.reddit.com/r/satoshistories)

@OP.

My husband and I are very devout Christians.  My husband is even a Biblical scholar.  He enjoys reading the Bible in Greek just to make sure he is understanding it correctly.  I met him at a Christian college.  I am even going on a mission trip to India in a few weeks to work with an organization called Harvest India.  I am also well known on this forum as being a very vocal Christian. All that said, I am very for Bitcoin.

Sure there are people involved that are not Christian.  We are "in the world not of the world" right?  And yes, I think that Bitcoin could certainly be the "one world currency" that is talked about in the Bible (all the more proof of it's success).  However, in scripture it is not the "one world currency" that is evil.  It is the control of the people by putting a mark on hands to buy and sell by the antichrist, whoever that ends up being (perhaps Satoshi if at some point he comes out of hiding to "save" the world from fianacial ruin?) that is the problem.  I believe it is incredibly important that Christians purchase as much Bitcoin as they possibly can.  Bitcoin is not owned by any government and it is peer-to-peer and it just might give Christians the flexibility needed to make choices when the day comes that we are being told we have to have a mark to buy and sell.  Having some coins that are not within reach of governments might be the only thing we can access before being put to death or in jail.  Just something to think about.

It kind of reminds me of how so many Christians were against movies when Hollywood started out.  If anything, it would have so much better if Christians had just embraced movies and came out with more wholesome movies at that point.  Instead they feared it and because of that the industry has now swayed generations of people in less wholesome directions.  

We need to be "cunning as serpents and innocent as doves."  Using Bitcoin for God's purpose is where my heart is at and I would encourage your uncle to at least pray about it more seriously and read him my comments as well.

Edit:  As for your uncle's concern of Bitcoin's early adopters having some deep rooted connections with transhumanism and having extroprian roots, this just seems to be the pride that comes with most people I encounter that are drunk in their own intelligence and is just typical of the scientific community today.  I had a biology teacher that had me read Adolf Huxley's Brave New World in high school. (this was 20 years ago)  I read the book and thought it was completely ridiculous and a fantasy at best.  I was shocked to learn that he seriously believed that it was a brilliant look into what the future should be, but it was a cold and loveless world in my eyes.  This was my first insight into how the "intelligent" minds perceive things.  Now I see people that think they know more than God.  They don't need God and they even want to find a way to "outsmart" God if that was even possible (but of course they don't even believe God exists anyways.)  So the cryogenics and transhumanism is just an extension of this sort of thought.  Perhaps they are the early Bitcoin developers because they are highly intelligent?  The more intelligent minds are drawn to these sorts of things?  I am not entirely sure.  It doesn't mean that Bitcoin isn't brilliant though and a intelligently designed work (designed by those whom God gave the intelligence to begin with ;) )  

Surely, I will make him read your much passionate reply

Thanks. I added an edit to share my viewpoint of the transhumanism and extroprian roots of BTC too.  

Drugs are bad! ....mmkayyy!

Only Erlik can judge me! ;D

That's quite a fascinating discourse. You're obviously an American. Just out of curiosity, do you believe Angels are real?

Yes, of course. Lucifer being the most famous (or should I say infamous) of them all. Do you?  ;)

No, I was just trying to verify survey results I read somewhere. Thanks.

I find it fascinating that you commented that Christians shouldn't have dismissed movies when they came out, and should not dismiss Bitcoin now - but then you imply cryonics and transhumanism are incompatible with Christianity.  If cryonics should prove successful, then it is nothing more than reviving someone from an extremely long-term and extremely unusual coma (that is mistakenly classified as legal death), and it has no more theological implications than reviving someone from a coma.  We have instances now in the medical history where a person has gone into hypothermia and entered a state that would legally or clinically be called "death" but the person has recovered and been fine.  To my knowledge these instances do not pose any theological problem for Christians, and the desire of a medical practitioner to rescue a person in such a state is not considered a problem by Christians and is not considered to be "outsmarting God" - doctors attempting these revival efforts might very well be Christian.  Cryonics is a much more destructive injury but at this point in time I don't think it's possible to rule out the possibility that medical science might one day create a cure for this injury and make revival possible.

Looking through pages on the Alcor Life Extension Foundation site you'll find that there have been a number of Christians involved in cryonics.  As you are urging Christians to purchase Bitcoin, you might also consider the possibility that if cryonics works it gives Christians many more years to engage in evangelistic work.  Some might consider it the same as a doctor treating and reviving a missionary who was thought to be fatally ill or wounded but who instead makes a complete recovery.

I suppose cryogenics are only a problem depending on what the motive is.  I can understand the curiosity and desire to study this and there could definitely be some medical benefits to consider.  But I think the goal for many is to find a way to "eternal life" on our own strength and that is the main conflict with Christianity.

^^Point. I figure things like Bitcoin and cyrogenics are just inanimate technologies that can be used for either good or evil. It's like saving the life of a young child who could go one of two ways. He could become either the next Hitler or the next Gandhi. If you knew which, would you still save him from being run over by a car when he's six years old?

The same could be said about how people live their life in general.  Since I don't believe in psychic powers I don't think we can really read a person's motivation unless they tell us what it is (and even then they could be lying - a seemingly devout Christian might have terrible undisclosed private motivations and sin).  Typically nobody probes into the motives of a doctor trying to rescue a patient nor accuses him of trying to achieve a goal forbidden by God, at least not in this day and age.  And typically I think Christians would encourage everyone to have compassion for the sick person who wants to live longer rather than encouraging him to question and second-guess his motives.

Even when a non-Christian doctor saves a non-Christian patient the average Christian doesn't speak out against the act of saving the life - even if both doctor and patient absolutely do want to live a life in conflict with Christianity.

I personally think that one day cryonics will be viewed by Christians just like any other life-saving technology.  Sure it can be used for good or evil, but why should evil be automatically be presumed?  It's not inherent in the technology.

By the way, it's "cryonics," not "cryogenics."  Most scientists who practice cryobiology don't actually want to be associated with cryonicists. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics#Ischemic_injury

No religious statements in that paragraph.

Lmfao.

Sorry, mods, this just deserves an 'Lmfao,' and that's all.

Edit:  And sorry, SilverWallets :(

the funny part is all those dedicated research and science behind cryonics could be easily dismissed by religious people as

                " Resurrection from the dead"

Consiperetard

Amen, brother!

Hmmm....ever used a Ouija board?

Yeah, he sounds like he's definitely on to something.
[/quote]
You made me laugh so much! :)

Your uncle is simple crazy to think it. Satoshi is simple the angel of economy, because with his Bitcoin purpose, he can saved economy from many thing.

Your uncle should visit a psychiatric.
This nonsense is out of this world.

exactly. I can not understand why your uncle said that bitcoin is satanic and satoshi lucifer! Consider that many benefits association now accepts bitcoin for donation. benefits association accepts devil's money? I don't knew this  ;D

An omnipotent immortal artificial intelligence is created to serve its creators and now they're wondering why it just decided to wander off and do whatever it feels like? Is that the story so far?

Yes. Just like we humans, with souls that are immortal, have the choice to wander off and do whatever we feel like too. ;)

These creators, are they still out there? Are they still unhappy with the situation; a deathstar is on its way here to rectify the situation ASAP?

Is this Nibiru?

Here is a thread which shows that there is a church which accepts donation in Bitcoin, and your uncle said that bitcoin is satanic and satoshi is lucifer ? Ridicolous !

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=825969.0

Read it and then make read this to your uncle and let us know his answer !

This.

It does in fact match the one world currency prophesy.  However there may be hundreds of years before it ever gets to that point (and implants in head or hand).  Likewise, nobody at this stage knows whether it will be Bitcoin or Crypto.  It could be another technology altogether.  If your uncle is afraid of something because it may lead to something bad, then he should stop doing everything.  Because every technology he participates in today is some way tied to the future technology which will be the mark of the beast.  For all we know, the one world currency could be Dogecoin. 

-B-

Well said mate. Everything that we thought up...our currencies every single bit of it even before Jesus appeared was actually intended to be part of the one currency system.

There are no creators.  DNA molecules and the living organisms that contain them just came into being spontaneously.

How do you explain cheetahs then? They're half dog and half cat for god's sake.

Cheetahs evolved just like you and me as a result of genetic mutations.  What is this god you are referring to?

The book of Revelation was "revealed" to St.John when 'God' spoke to him through the cracks in the wall (or ceiling) of a cave.

Burning bushes.  Thunder clouds.  Dreams.  Visions.  I make no judgments about the veracity of them.  I'm definitely in no position to call them BS.  All I can say is that I wish He still spoke to us like this today.

-B-

Ok guys, first things first
Lets get one thing out of the way.
One world government & one world currency already exists...

Your mind, body, soul & spirit is the currency with which the one world government contracts with.

In the form of a Cestui Que Vie Trust: www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Cha2/18-19/11

In 1666, in London, during the black plague, & great fires of London. Parliament enacted an act, behind closed doors, called Cestui Que Vie Act 1666.

The act being debated,the Cestui Qui act, was to subrogate the rights of men and women, meaning all men and women were declared dead, lost at sea/beyond the sea. (back then operating in admiralty law, the law of the sea, so lost at sea).

The state (of London) took custody of everybody and their property into a trust, the state became the trustee/husband holding all titles to the people and property, until a living man comes back to reclaim those titles and can also claim damages. (Reclaim using UCC 1 and PPSA)

The rule of the use of CAPITAL LETTERS used in a NAME: when CAPITAL letters re used anywhere in a NAME this always refers to a LEGAL ENTITY/FICTION, COMPANY or CORPORATION no exceptions.

e.g. John DOE or Doe: JANE (PASSPORT, DRIVER LICENSE, MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE and BIRTH CERTIFICATE)

CEST TUI QUE TRUST: (pronounced setakay) common term in NEW ZEALAND and AUSTRALIA or STRAWMAN common term in USA or CANADA is a LEGAL ENTITY/FICTION created and owned by the GOVERNMENT whom created it. I repeat owned by the GOVERNMENT.

Legally, we are considered to be a FICTION, a concept or idea expressed as a NAME, a symbol. That LEGAL PERSON has no consciousness; it is a juristic PERSON, ENS LEGIS, a NAME/word written on a piece of paper.

This traces back to 1666, London is a state, just like Vatican is a state, just like Washington DC is a state. The Crown is an unincorporated association. Why unincorporated, its private, the temple bar is in London, every lawyer called to the "bar" swears allegiance to the temple bar. You can't get called, without swearing this allegiance. The Crown already owns North America and everything in it.

Your only way out is to reclaim your dead entity (strawman) that the Crown created, become the trustee of the cest tui qui trust and remove yourself from the admiralty law that holds you in custody.



In court all you have to do is identify yourself, the clerk, the judge & prosecutor, put them under oat, bind a contract with them. present your live birth record under common law jurisdiction, claim your mind, body, soul & spirit FOR GOD, UNDER GOD, then authorize the clerk to handle the accounting and dissolve the constructive trust.



Here is a lengthy pastebin i just posed for you guys to read over completely before you respond to me: http://pastebin.com/USf47R8p

 If Bitcoin was satanic then 1 BTC would equal $666.

Better would be 666€

 Is it my imagination or does Bitcoin tend to gravitate towards $666

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=466806.100

Not really, because it's the love of money that is the root of all evil, according to le bible at least.

It's the lack of money that's the root of all evil lol

greed 8)

nailed it

+1

'Money combined with central Gov't power is the root of most evil' ~Ron 20:07  :D

Even if the state actually had all of those rules, they wouldn't actually follow them.  No way out there, even if you follow all these "laws."

ahhhhhhhhggggggggg(screaming scared)

just found this...

http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q99/2484.html (http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q99/2484.html)

Oh, come on.  You knew someone would have the domain name, didn't you? 

Pretty much every word in English is a domain name now.  And, yes, that includes Lucifer.

I've seen Bitcoin rip the faces off of people!  It's a demonic coin!

That just me rofl out loud in a public place. Beware the demonic coin! come on guys don't buy into it.

Revelation 13:37: The bible was created as guildlines on how to live for 2000 years ago - people who still follow it hardcore are not very smart.

Tell your uncle

THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST IS 666

In Hebrew Kabballah the waw = 6

W = waw

So

www.everydomain.tld/com/net/org/us/uk/ca

every domain bows to 666 or waw/waw/waw or www.

So today you NEED the name of the beast 666/www to do biz

Now the guy that told me this HIS NAME WAS HIDDEN

666 = 999 upside down

999 = NINES

ENNIS or an anagram of HIS NAME

So I met LUCIFER in the flesh, he wa quite a charming guy

I don't think anyone really follows it, or any other religious book, to the letter - in fact, the vast majority likely haven't even read their book of choice. :)

---

That's some vivid imagination you've got there. :D

i really dont understand, why bitcoin and religion is even remotely discussed and related? lol.

Regardless of the currency, the flow of greed is those who have more, make more.

Bitcoin can't make the world a better place, only we can by practicing selflessness.

There's a cliché that comes to mind here "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

you are saying it yourself but you are unaware.
you fail to see what most fail to see: science has become a substitute for religion - the professors and (corrupt) scientist are your priests.
Maybe that solves said dilema?
Science in reality is no substitute for religion or spirituality.

No doubt some people treat science like a substitute for religion - but in reality, it's so much more than that. You don't need to, and honestly shouldn't, blindly trust what scientists and professors tell you; you can look into their answers for yourself, and upon finding any mistakes or gaps in that knowledge, add to those answers until a better model of how the world works can be constructed from the whole process.

if you "believe" anything at any point you're just a sheep. You don't know shit until you actually sat down and looked at the experiments and studies carried out in detail. Not even then you know a thing. You actually need to repeat experiments to really get to know. Knowing is not such easy, lazy as believing/blindly following/have the illusion to know what you are programmed to by the system/read the summary secondary literature (mental weakling status).
You wouldn't believe how much biased and corrupt shit is propagated by some intelectuals (high priests) and people buy it and repeat it to others just because that other reputable seemingly intelligent and studied gentleman said this would be so.

Knowing a thing is rare. Believing is the commen thing. So why not believe in Jesus or elves or what ever you want to believe in if you believe in science aswell? It's the same mental weak shit. Believe in science or religion is the same same on my watch.

It comes down to: philosophy is where the real value is
(philosophers know this: science is a child of philosophy)

this goes offtopic now though.

bottom line: nothing more hilarious than people sitting on the high horse looking down at those irrational spiritual/religious people because they themselves are so much better and so rational believers in science. You're the same religious nuts, you morons!

This theory is clearly true. If you go through bitcoin history and development you will see it always relating to gambling and things that are mostly illegal or criminal. Greed, scams are prevailing And wickedness is the key, avoid bitcoins and give me your stash!

Sure, science does take more work than most people are willing to put into it, and abuses do occur; on the other hand, you have peer review - it's far from perfect, but works. On that note, simply dismissing science "believers" as being just the same as religious "believers" is silly, in my view. Those are fundamentally different points of view about the how the world actually works: in the former, you "believe" the world can be understood, and that, that understanding can then be used to control it and shape it to our needs; in the latter, you believe you are at the mercy of a creator, and whatever happens, happens because of an arbitrary, unfathomable "god willed it so" (depending on the fairy tale of your choice, of course).

In this sense, I would much prefer people to at least have some basic understanding and interest about the world around them (and, who knows, maybe even contribute to that understanding), rather than giving it all up and go live alone in the mountains somewhere waiting for their favorite savior (or whatever).

a belief is just that - a belief
It is very common place to present theories and less disputed but unproven hypothesis like the big bang and particularly a lot theories in psychology (but other sciences aswell) as facts in popular science and they are beliefed as such.

Many people take many theories as actual fact. I bet almost everyone reading this takes A LOT of theories as actual proven facts which they are not.
Actually most of what you belief based on science is not real - most of what is propagated is actually only theories.
Theism is the same - just a theory and some people take it as fact.

So why does it matter how plausible the theory is?

I think the huge following of the scientific cult is as sheepish as the religious folks. They are sometimes even just as radical. Scientific radicals and extremists. Yes, they do exist a lot but are not perceived in that way.

Well, as I said, to me it matters because it has actual, practical consequences; those are vastly different points of view, and people's actions (or lack thereof) will, in no small way, be influenced by how they perceive the world to work. The exact details of their views are less relevant, I think, but let's not forget that if you are scientifically minded, you can then proceed to explore further and refine your views (and perhaps contribute in a meaningful way to society while you're at it) - an option not open to a closed, set-in-stone view of the world that religions typically offer.

Which brings me to the next point: comparing scientific theories to theism seems to me to show a basic misunderstanding of what a scientific theory is. Would you care to explain how theism could possibly fit the bill?

I have even heard people say that Bitcoin is a tool of the illuminati in addition to being satanic and what not. My only argument to the naysayers is this:

If BTC is a tool of the illuminati, why is it open source and de-centralized? Isn't the goal of the illuminati a One World Government? Which also means one currency across the world? If you look at the current system, the US wants to impose their USD upon the whole world to prop up their failing currency. They even forced India to toe their line when India was very happy buying oil from Iran in Indian Rupees. They threatened sanctions if India continued buying oil in Indian Rupees! If this is not an attempt at a one world government and currency, then what is? Currently, i feel fiat is a tool of the illuminati and they want BTC to fail as much as possible because they want everyone to be a slave of the banks and not be free. :)

Totally agree! just playing around with humans psyclogy and not letting human thing about anything else than matter this materialistic world. fuck money health is REAL wealth be vegan eat much fruits be free. CRYPTO is BS STAY AWAY FROM IT its all rckfelers and those big ppls who made this so better keep eyes open in this world! better to buy gold or silver the REAL VALUABLE gods money if somebody wants invest into something.