Bitcoin Forum

Looking to borrow GIGAMINING, BITBOND bonds.

Paying 50% more dividend as long as I keep the bond. Minimum term two weeks. The first payment will be prorated according with the day I receive the bonds. The payment day is Monday.

For contract terms, I propose using the following form:

"Upon acceptance of this contract, I will transfer (Number) (Name) mining bonds to your GLBSE account.

For as long as you hold the bonds, 1.5 the amount of any dividend these bonds receive goes to (Bitcoin address) within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by the mining bond.

At any point in time you are allowed to send back any amount of these bonds to my GLBSE account and pay proportionally fewer dividends from that time on. If however the bond issuer paid dividends, but you are within the 24h window, you still have to pay the doubled dividend, even if you transfer the bonds back in that window.

I reserve the right to cancel this agreement and demand to have some or all (number) shares transferred back to my GLBSE account within 28 days (= not 28 business days, but 4 weeks) which are starting as soon as this demand is posted here in this thread by me. As long as the shares are not in my possession, you will still have to pay double dividends.

All payments have to be made via transactions, not via GLBSE transfers, because then they can be verified using the block chain. Should some rules above be broken (which is easily verifiable for anyone using publicly available information) I reserve to take actions including, but not limited to, asking for freezing the GLBSE account where bonds were sent and/or being reimbursed in bonds and/or bitcoin from the receiver of the bonds." credit for writing this contract go to Sukrim

Thanks.

Ask if anyone wants to loan you some assets. Come to an agreement as to how much you will pay as a lending fee. After the assets are transferred, sell them. (See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76743.0)

When you want to cover your short, buy back and transfer back to the lender.

I have an idea in the works that allows shorting of mining bonds. I just need to tighten up the contracts a bit. I'll let you know when it's ready.

It will be fun to see shorts implemented in GLBSE, but just remember that when you short something you are responsible for paying dividends, too.

Because if the last news from BFL holds true, the  present mining contracts will be worth nothing in a few months.

I sold everything. This is why I was thinking about shorting.

I think "a lot" would be an understatement.

Unlikely; someone wouldn't have invested to sell them like that. Someone needed to pull out very fast - but why?

Did BMF manage to pick any up cheaply?

Not me, I sold mine yesterday.

Try again tomorrow, it can go only down from here.

 What is the news from BFL?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83985.0

I'm pretty sure it is ineededausername.

It is safe to say that all those miners are aware of this and have plans in place for that announcement.  I am going to check the charts and see the damage.

-D 

I had some buys filled on giga from that - watching

I'd like to borrow up to 2000 shares of FZB. I am willing to do amounts down to 100 shares.

I will pay any dividends issued during the time I am borrowing the shares.

I will pay a monthly fee at the beginning of each month until I return the shares.

You can request your shares back at any time and I will return them within one month but will not pay another monthly fee after your request. I will still pay any dividends.

I will pay GLBSE transfer fees.

Unfortunately I have only a finite amount of bitcoins so I want to give myself an out. I reserve the right to give 10x the btc price of the shares at the time of the loan in place of returning the shares.

When is Seals going to go public? Hell, with GLBSE you can easily raise enough revenue to build a Full Tilt Poker quality software client.

Full Tilt quality.. hmm. I don't have any plans to, it's hard enough spending my own money.

I made one deal for 200 shares. Looking for more.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Hi FreeMoney,

I offer you some FZB.A shares to let you sell them (short or long) at GLBSE.
I will transfer you 650 shares from my account under the following terms & conditions:

 - You will pay me 1.5% per month plus the transfer fees and any dividends paid.
 - You can return your shares whenever you like and I will not owe back any fee for partial month.
 - you will return my shares within a month from whenever I ask, nevertheless you will not make another monthly fee payment.
 - You reserve the right to give 10x the btc price of the shares at the time of the loan in place of returning the shares.

Right now the sell price is at 0.0945 so 1.5% of that price for 650 shares would be 0.921375 BTC + 0.12285 Transfer fee = 1.044225BTC
If you agree to that terms, please provide your username at GLBSE and I will transfer you 650 FZB.A shares right now.
Then you should send me 1.044225BTC as the first payment and 0.921375BTC every first of each month plus any dividends to this address: 1G7YRZHYn4eVQRUrXXwyLF2xEMMHgpmZUi.

I will honour your right to pay 0.945BTC per share in place of returning the shares.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

iF4EAREIAAYFAk/JRkcACgkQ8AwyXklxLE+xqQD+OOBzo6Te1z9OSj6XjiK87dn2
S84M08BNaFNYZKV7UgMA/Rdyljb4sYE6vF1/w5VupXs5YkB8KIvmQIZCKA6gnjTX
=JG1z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I accept. 1.044225BTC sent to 1G7YRZHYn4eVQRUrXXwyLF2xEMMHgpmZUi

edit to add: my GLBSE username is freemoney

650 FZB.A shares transferred to Freemoney at 2012-06-01 19:26:51 (GLBSE Time) !!

Please confirm reception.

By the way, I thought the transfer fees were 0.2% of the amount transferred but I have checked that in reality the fees that are applied are based on the 5 day average price of the asset transferred. In our case the transfer fee has been 0.1209932 BTC instead of my initial estimation of 0.12285 so I owe you 0.0018568 BTCs.

I can give you back that tiny amount right now if you wish, although in order to avoid tx fees I propose you simply pay me 0.9195182 BTC next month and 0.921375 afterwards.

Confirmed received 650 shares. No need to send that bit.

I'd still like about 500 more shares of FZB if anyone is interested, paying 1.5% per month, plus transfer fees, plus any dividends.

Looking to borrow GIGAMINING and BITBOND bonds.
Paying double the divident as long as I keep the bond.

Thanks.

How many of each?

For 1 BTC flat (for fees/time and just because I can) I'd offer 30 shares of BITBOND for lending:

1 BTC up-front to 1CHTW5DxJAmtfccH42bWVMb3z3PQAuVJ8S (a GLBSE address btw.), then 30 BITBOND shares get transferred to a GLBSE account of your choice.
Double the amount of any dividend these BITBOND shares receive goes to 1CHTW5DxJAmtfccH42bWVMb3z3PQAuVJ8S within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by BITBOND.
At any point of time you are allowed to send back any amount of these 30 shares to my GLBSE account "Sukrim" and pay proportionally fewer dividends from that time on. If however BITBOND paid dividends, but you are within the 24h window, you still have to pay the doubled dividend, even if you transfer the shares back in that window (basically: double any dividend you could have gotten, regardless if you still own the shares or not).

I reserve the right to cancel this agreement and demand to have some or all 30 shares transferred back to my GLBSE account within 28 days (= not 28 business days, but 4 weeks) which are starting as soon as this demand is posted here in this thread by me. As long as the shares are not in my possession, you will still have to pay double dividends though.

All payments have to be made via transactions, not via GLBSE transfers, because then they can be verified using the block chain (http://blockchain.info/address/1CHTW5DxJAmtfccH42bWVMb3z3PQAuVJ8S). Should some rules above be broken (which is easily verifiyble for anyone using publicly available information) I reserve to take actions including, but not limited to, asking for freezing the GLBSE account where shares were sent and/or being reimbursed in shares and/or bitcoin from the receiver of the shares.

Are you planning to flip fast and pay 0 or 1 dividend or are you willing to commit to some longer amount of time?

How many can you offer?

Thanks.

I can commit to one month. After that, I can return the shares at my discretion.

Thanks.

Emphasis mine...

I was distracted by the begining of your post.

We have an agreement.

Thanks.

1 BTC received, shares transferred to account named in PM.

Happy shorting! :)

Received.

Thank you.

It will be awesome when you can borrow shares from other people on glbse itself.....

I'm not sure how this should work out though, there is still a lot of space for abuse (ciuciu could just sell off the shares, delete his account and walk away) - lending shares somehow seems to me very trust based.

On the other hand, something more secure like requiring ciuciu to always have the 5days average of shares worth frozen in his account would also be not very attractive for him I guess...

I'd rather have "OTC offers" with something like 0.2% fee for both sides of a trade (0.2% of 5daverage for share trades) where you can put up offers and bids for any kind of assets (except BTC) you possess and want to possess. Something like "Offering 10 TYGRR.BOND-P for 9 FOO.PPPPT". These offers won't be able to be filled partially, but it might be possible to create some nice products with these... It would be something similar to what diablo is currently doing with DMC.

ciuciu,

1 BTC up-front to 13vZGh9RsjHihQEpVSdgQWnFV3FusV9Egg,  then 100 GIGAMINING shares get transferred to a GLBSE account of your choice.

Double the amount of any dividend these GIGAMINING shares receive goes to 13vZGh9RsjHihQEpVSdgQWnFV3FusV9Egg within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by GIGAMINING

At any point of time you are allowed to send back any amount of these 100 shares to my GLBSE account and pay proportionally fewer dividends from that time on. If however GIGAMING paid dividends, but you are within the 24h window, you still have to pay the doubled dividend, even if you transfer the shares back in that window (basically: double any dividend you could have gotten, regardless if you still own the shares or not).

I reserve the right to cancel this agreement and demand to have some or all 100 shares transferred back to my GLBSE account within 28 days (= not 28 business days, but 4 weeks) which are starting as soon as this demand is posted here in this thread by me. As long as the shares are not in my possession, you will still have to pay double dividends though.

All payments have to be made via transactions, not via GLBSE transfers, because then they can be verified using the block chain (http://blockchain.info/address/13vZGh9RsjHihQEpVSdgQWnFV3FusV9Egg (http://blockchain.info/address/13vZGh9RsjHihQEpVSdgQWnFV3FusV9Egg)). Should some rules above be broken (which is easily verifiyble for anyone using publicly available information) I reserve to take actions including, but not limited to, asking for freezing the GLBSE account where shares were sent and/or being reimbursed in shares and/or bitcoin from the receiver of the shares.

I have plenty more GIGAMINING shares.  Anyone else want to short them?

We have an agreement.

Thank you.

Shares received.

Thank you.

Hehe, nice to see my contract that I drafted at night in half an hour being used by someone else too! :)

Sukrim, we thank you for it. I would like to ask for your permission for future use in my dealings.

Thank you.

Permission granted, I hereby put the wording of this aforementioned contract into the public domain. It would be nice mentioning me as author, but it's not necessary by any means.

I will try to give you credit every time I use it.

Thank you.

Are you still looking for Gigamining shares, ciuciu? I would be happy to loan you 30 with the same terms.

EDIT: Received PM, posting contract. (Thanks, Sukrim! I've corrected a couple of typos I spotted, though :))

1 BTC up-front to 142zXkL4buC2G9QZbtYiZ5aTkN9y6B4GqH, then 30 GIGAMINING shares get transferred to a GLBSE account of your choice.

Double the amount of any dividend these GIGAMINING shares receive goes to 142zXkL4buC2G9QZbtYiZ5aTkN9y6B4GqH within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by GIGAMINING.

At any point of time you are allowed to send back any amount of these 30 shares to my GLBSE account (area) and pay proportionally fewer dividends from that time on. If however GIGAMINING paid dividends, but you are within the 24h window, you still have to pay the doubled dividend, even if you transfer the shares back in that window (basically: double any dividend you could have gotten, regardless if you still own the shares or not).

I reserve the right to cancel this agreement and demand to have some or all 30 shares transferred back to my GLBSE account within 28 days (= not 28 business days, but 4 weeks) which are starting as soon as this demand is posted here in this thread by me. As long as the shares are not in my possession, you will still have to pay double dividends though.

All payments have to be made via transactions, not via GLBSE transfers, because then they can be verified using the block chain (http://blockchain.info/address/142zXkL4buC2G9QZbtYiZ5aTkN9y6B4GqH). Should some rules above be broken (which is easily verifiable for anyone using publicly available information) I reserve to take actions including, but not limited to, asking for freezing the GLBSE account where shares were sent and/or being reimbursed in shares and/or bitcoin from the receiver of the shares.

We have an agreement.

Thank you.

Bonds received. Thank you.

I am very surprised the contract does not have a more secure method, like using a trusted escrow party, for securing collateral.

For example, we see contracts for: 30 BITBOND with 1 BTC collateral, 100 GIGAMINING with 1 BTC collateral and 30 GIGAMINING with 1 BTC collateral. Based on 5 day trading volume for the underlyings that is about 184 BTC in the notional with 3 BTC collateral or 61.33x which means if the price rises by a mere 1.63%, about the coupon payment!, then the collateral is gone. There is a reason for the Regulation T initial margin requirement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_T) being about 50% and not 1.63%. Good luck for the lenders collecting on a margin call should the need arise.

ciuciu,

1 BTC up-front to 16SqSuqvQzkHVnS1aRsDD4PSJCewBvs1dn,  then 100 YABMC shares get transferred to a GLBSE account of your choice.

Double the amount of any dividend these YABMC shares receive goes to 16SqSuqvQzkHVnS1aRsDD4PSJCewBvs1dn within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by YABMC

At any point of time you are allowed to send back any amount of these 100 shares to my GLBSE account and pay proportionally fewer dividends from that time on. If however YABMC paid dividends, but you are within the 24h window, you still have to pay the doubled dividend, even if you transfer the shares back in that window (basically: double any dividend you could have gotten, regardless if you still own the shares or not).

I reserve the right to cancel this agreement and demand to have some or all 100 shares transferred back to my GLBSE account within 28 days (= not 28 business days, but 4 weeks) which are starting as soon as this demand is posted here in this thread by me. As long as the shares are not in my possession, you will still have to pay double dividends though.

All payments have to be made via transactions, not via GLBSE transfers, because then they can be verified using the block chain (http://blockchain.info/address/16SqSuqvQzkHVnS1aRsDD4PSJCewBvs1dn (http://blockchain.info/address/16SqSuqvQzkHVnS1aRsDD4PSJCewBvs1dn)). Should some rules above be broken (which is easily verifiyble for anyone using publicly available information) I reserve to take actions including, but not limited to, asking for freezing the GLBSE account where shares were sent and/or being reimbursed in shares and/or bitcoin from the receiver of the shares.

We have an agreement.

These dont have to move very much in price  to wipe out the collateral....

What collateral?
The 1 BTC is not a collateral. Everything is based on trust, the same goes for the mining operators.

Shares received.

Thank you.

And Its Gone! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TlPo0yCSa4)

haha

That's not a collateral, at least for me, more something to cover fees, giving me 2-3 free 1MH/s mining shares and to make sure he's able to deposit to the address mentioned.

An honestly - if he really risks his GLBSE account, forum trust and a lot of trouble just for ~20 BTC (in my case, can't speak about the others) or even less (if the shorting is successful) plus a few coins in total for dividends... well, that's my risk after all.

I personally am not THAT "long" on mining bonds in the sense that I guess they will be sold for 1 BTC per 1MH/s soon, but I think they will not collapse as much as some predict will happen with an ASIC announcement around the corner. Double dividends for that time frame seems like a fair deal to me (and I also didn't give away all my mining shares or shares that I own...). I would probably have more money on the table if I were spending an evening in Las Vegas to put this into perspective.

Need more.

Thank you.

How about 300 Gigamining and 300 YABMC bonds?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Hi ciuciu,

these are my terms and conditions for a deal:

3 BTC up-front to 13WRBNRaQaK5XjMFSXQCzEPK5QGrib1WKQ, then 300 GIGAMINING bonds get transferred to a GLBSE account of your choice.
3 BTC up-front to 17A7A8zNbvzwG3eQwdVRQwTcCe3vqSbJcr, then 300 YABMC bonds get transferred to a GLBSE account of your choice.

Double the amount of any dividend these GIGAMINING bonds receive goes to 13WRBNRaQaK5XjMFSXQCzEPK5QGrib1WKQ within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by GIGAMINING.
Double the amount of any dividend these YABMC bonds receive goes to 17A7A8zNbvzwG3eQwdVRQwTcCe3vqSbJcr within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by YABMC.

At any point of time you are allowed to send back any amount of these 600 bonds to my GLBSE account and pay proportionally fewer dividends from that time on. If however GIGAMING or YABMC paid dividends, but you are within the 24h window, you still have to pay the doubled dividend, even if you transfer the bonds back in that window (basically: double any dividend you could have gotten, regardless if you still own the bonds or not).

I reserve the right to cancel this agreement and demand to have some or all 600 bonds transferred back to my GLBSE account within 28 days (= not 28 business days, but 4 weeks) which are starting as soon as this demand is posted here in this thread by me. As long as the shares are not in my possession, you will still have to pay double dividends though.

All payments have to be made via transactions, not via GLBSE transfers, because then they can be verified using the block chain. Should some rules above be broken (which is easily verifiyble for anyone using publicly available information) I reserve to take actions including, but not limited to, asking for freezing the GLBSE account where shares were sent and/or being reimbursed in shares and/or bitcoin from the receiver of the shares.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

iF4EAREIAAYFAk/ZE4sACgkQ8AwyXklxLE8CvgD+Kk6cUOjdIBEFXpMFjHllnInd
a4NiC14rTl3INLPL52MA/1QzkRVdlR3TWlG518llp2ln6nF1No7/3qud31TIGBFV
=c/KQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

We have an agreement.

Thank you.

Is there any reason why a fixed rate perpetual mining bond would increase in value over time? Even without the reward halving, difficulty continues to trend up and the increasing proportion of FPGA miners mean it will be much less likely to swing back down with price drops.

Done deal.
300 GIGAMINING bonds and 300 YABMC transferred to ciuciu's account at GLBSE.

Shares received.

Thank you.

When the price of Bitcoin rises faster than the difficulty goes up then mining bonds should also become more valuable because they pay out Bitcoins.

Say bitcoin price doubles and diff stays the same. The bond is worth twice as many dollars, which happens to be exactly the original number of bitcoins.

Mining bonds are valued in bitcoins and pay out in bitcoins. Unless I'm reading the contract wrong for something like Gigamining, it pays out 100%PPS for a specific hash rate. The BTC/USD exchange rate doesn't affect the return on the mining bond, only the difficulty.

If difficulty goes up, 5MH/s produces less and the dividend is smaller. If difficulty goes down, the dividend is larger. So, unless difficulty is on a long term downward trend the dividends from these fixed hash rate bonds won't increase over time.

We are in the middle of a technology change. Soon, share offerings will pour in at a more attractive price, then people will start jumping ship. My advice is to invest in something like BFLS. I might offer it myself soon.

I totally agree. I'm jealous that you got so much borrowing action. Though I suppose I might be able to is I was willing to pay double dividends.

I was responding to anyone who thinks the USD price of BTC affects the BTC price of fixed MH bonds.

And if you believe me, I'm not the only one doing it.

Good morning,

YABMC coupon paid.
http://blockchain.info/address/16SqSuqvQzkHVnS1aRsDD4PSJCewBvs1dn
http://blockchain.info/address/17A7A8zNbvzwG3eQwdVRQwTcCe3vqSbJcr

Thank you.

Hi,

these are my terms and conditions for our deal discussed per PM

3 BTC up-front to 1GBjchEkY3aKY9MEBjUukXg4eMmMMiKj3c, then 350 Puremining bonds get transferred to your GLBSE account.
2 BTC up-front to 1GBjchEkY3aKY9MEBjUukXg4eMmMMiKj3c, then 200 Bitbond bonds get transferred to your GLBSE account.

Double the amount of any dividend these Puremining and Bitbond bonds receive goes to 1GBjchEkY3aKY9MEBjUukXg4eMmMMiKj3c within 24 hours of that dividend being paid out by Puremining and Bitbond.

At any point of time you are allowed to send back any amount of these 550 bonds to my GLBSE account and pay proportionally fewer dividends from that time on. If howeverPuremining and Bitbond paid dividends, but you are within the 24h window, you still have to pay the doubled dividend, even if you transfer the bonds back in that window (basically: double any dividend you could have gotten, regardless if you still own the bonds or not).

I reserve the right to cancel this agreement and demand to have some or all 550 bonds transferred back to my GLBSE account within 28 calendar days (not 28 business days, but calendar 4 weeks) which are starting as soon as this demand is posted here in this thread by me. As long as the shares are not in my possession, you will still have to pay double dividends though.
The 5 BTC transferred up-front will be returned within 24h once the bonds have been transferred back to my GLBSE account.

All payments have to be made via transactions, not via GLBSE transfers, because then they can be verified using the block chain. Should some rules above be broken (which is easily verifiyble for anyone using publicly available information) I reserve to take actions including, but not limited to, asking for freezing the GLBSE account where shares were sent and/or being reimbursed in shares and/or bitcoin from the receiver of the shares.

We have an agreement.

Shares received.

Thank you.

Yum.  Thanks!

Thank you.

Hi ciuciu,

For better visibility and track on my side, can you slightly change the payment addresses for my bonds?

Puremining still to 1GBjchEkY3aKY9MEBjUukXg4eMmMMiKj3c
Bitbond to 1PssAuxenQ6vugtjc2dc2SQW5ik4MoJ4y5 (instead of the above)?

Sorry, should have given 2 different addresses  right away, missed it. Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the coupons you just paid out. Already received the coupons for Bitbond and Puremining that were paid out today.

Lky_svn

Sure, will do.

Thank you.

Rate reduced.

Gigamining divident paid.

Thank you.

Received!

Thank you.

Received, thanks.

I want more.

Thank you.

ciuciu, are you working with a team of ASIC R&D team yourself? thank you.

ciuciu ,have you give any margin to those one lend shares to you?
if you lose the bet, what kind of back up plans do you use to cover the loss? is there any possibility that people will never get back their bonds and wealth again?

No, I don't.

I do not get the first question.
It is very unlikely I will lose this bet! If anything happens, I have plenty of reserves to cover all the shorts I do.

Thank you.

He's paying double dividends to lenders.

I no longer pay double divident, I pay 50% more then the bond.

Thanks.

I need more!

are you sure?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.msg987839#msg987839

Yes, I'm positive :). One question for you: Do you still believe in Santa?

Well, to new contracts that is obviously.

@HorseRider: He didn' put up any (significant) margin, the 1 BTC I charged is more of a test balloon if he's able to send BTC to that address I gave and to cover fees. The trade is more or less only backed by his word and reputation and can be enforced a bit by the contract clause that also his GLBSE account would be in peril should he not (publicly auditable) fulfill the contract. As the amount of the trade (30 * ~60 Bitcents = ~18 BTC) in my case isn't that much, I'm relatively confident on that trade going well (not so much that the actual trade itself turns out really profitable) and that he won't take the money/shares and run.

@Sukrim

Ciuciu is going to the right direction but with a dangerous car.

Generally speaking the value of mining bond is at the risk of the ASIC and BTC appreciation. However, I don't think the profit room is enough for him to pay the 150% annual interest rate to short.

1) ASIC is to come out, however, will it be so fast as BFL claim(2010-10)? we all know the punctuality of BFL. I strongly believe that BFL will have to collect enough prepayments to seriously start to do the R&D job. So I guess we will be lucky to see some ASIC at the end of this year.

2) BTC appreciation: well, just look at the bidding and asking wall of every bitcoin exchange. the price is now sticking around.


So, is the mining bond, for example, GIGAMING, should be traded at 0.8BTC right time right now? If You buy GIGAMING shares and lend it to ciuciu, it will spend you 25- weeks to collect enough dividend from ciuciu to cover your cost. And now, we find that gigavps, our lovely handsome gigavps, have decided that he will chose to do some really "fair" thing but not only acting according to the contract itself: he will upgrade the contract once the ASIC comes out! Now, why ciuciu is keeping short GIGAMING?

The YABMC has not given any similar promise yet, as they have the same 1) and 2) doubts like I have. However,  the delay of the ASIC + the  choppy market of bitcoin + the 150% dividend will put ciuciu in danger.

So, I think ciuciu is at the risk of losing this bet.

Excuse me, ciuciu, I'm at your counterparty of this bet. I have bought some shares and I'm speculating on that there will be a fast bounce/recovery of this negative bubble which is going to broke. I have to present my reasoning to the participants.

I believe that Ciuciu has to buy the shares back. And I believe he is intended to buy it back very soon. If he is planning to hold the shares to the end of the mining bond, why would not he issue some mining bond contract and sell it at fair market value? This saves much time and money for him. Of course, how much cash flow it will be for the total life of the bond, ciuciu is not sure about.

What he is sure about is that this thread itself, the short action, will cause herding effect and panic selling of the bond holders. This is intended to be a short term action.


For the lenders of ciuciu, if you don't have ciuciu place margin bitcoin with you but just words and reputation, there will be the possibility that ciuciu lose too much that he cannot pay back all of your money. It's not that ciuciu is going to run away, but that he is there and willing to be responsible but without the permission of MR. Market.

We traded currency inflation for hash inflation.

Hi,

Gigamining payment sent, Bitbond was sent yeserday. By mistake I paid YABMC twice, I will compensate for it next payment.

Have a great week!

So you are concerned about me and other people losing their shares?
At the same time you want them to buy GIGAMINING, instead of them buying their own ASIC.

In your post you forget some elements:
- the difficulty is going up, wait for ASIC to start "testing".
- the reward will drop to 25.
- if any other ASIC is coming before BFL you are all broke.
- There can be no big advantage for the first orders, if BFL runs the ASIC for a week to "test stress them".

So, I strongly believe I'm on the right path.

I encourage you to go to the lending section, there are offers with 2% weekly guaranteed, which is better than any mining bond will ever pay.

Thank you for your concern.

Yes, in 6 months. but I don't think waiting for it while paying 150% annual interest rate is for your best interest.

And the lenders who earn this interest actually take as much risks as any where else someone should have to take to earn that much.


There are still lots of GPU miners. when the ASIC joins in, the GPU miners will leave the mining business first, which will ease the steps of difficulty increase at the very beginning stage, like you said, "test" stage.

the difficulty adjust for every 2 weeks. if the BFL test the ASIC for one week, the production of the existing mining rigs won't be influenced very much.


ASIC is realistic but with high barrier. One should take lots of money to develop it. That's why some of the really early investors of bitcoin, who should have made lots of money, have to fund their bitcoin R&D through pre-payment and equity financing.

A secret ASIC R&D team? less than 1% possible. So, I take the risk buy in the dip you created. what's your evaluation of the possibility that there is a secret ASIC R&D team and they can do faster job than BFL?



You are not risk on the lending section with the money you get from selling the shares borrowed from people, are you?

We will see my friend! Now, can you lend some GIGAMINING?

ciuciu, how much reserves do you have if you lose the bet? ( of course, you might win at last but there is risk you will be the one lose money, right?)

I find your this post interesting. You created a GLBSE asset, but you're asking donations for GLBSE fees. It's not likely that you cannot afford to pay the GLBSE fee, but it seems that this money is still big enough to raise up a donation..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88008.msg967700#msg967700


So, just keep in mind the risks for borrowing the shares to ciuciu.

Of course, no. In my own evaluation, I think lend shares to you is risk. If you accept, I can find someone lend you shares, but you have to paydeposit 100% margin money.

More than you think! Go ask hashking and Patrick if you want to find out.

Don't be confused about the bond price you see on GLBSE. They are just smart money, protecting their investments. They will soon ask for more money from you for "UPGRADE".

Good luck! Now, I will ask you politely to stop thread crapping!

Thank you.

which means that the bond holders will have the dividend through future months before ASIC come out, plus some residual value for the option to pay some money upgrage the contract? Wow. since the ASIC seems far away, it's still good investment in my eye.

Waiting for you to crash into my bidding orders.

YABMC lost 40% price in a single week from 0.25 to 0.15. let us see how north this bounce will go.

I understand. You are bidding against me and you have all the rights.

Any other thread crapping from you will be reported. GO MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD!

This just bugs me:  you lend to someone or you borrow from someone, "borrow to" is not proper Engish.

Thanks.

Up.

Thanks for BurtW's kindly grammar advice.
it must be "lend to".


The panic on selling the Bond is end.
The bond price is recovering. 
The BTC exchange rates sticks around, which is not very good for ciuciu.
People lend shares to ciuciu have earn both 150% dividend and capital gain.(if the shares are bought at recently, at the deep negative bubble created by ciuciu.)

About BFL:
1) I've heard that BFL is seeking for seed/A round financing. It seems that they need money to deliver the ASIC units. have they closed this round yet?
2) Bit-pay put up 50,000BTC selling orders, and the bitcoin is BFL's. So, whether BFL got these 325K USD or not?
3) I think BFL relies on the prepayment financing to support their ASIC R&D+manufacturing.
4) We need to know almost all R&D and manufacturing process cannot make out as it was planned. I will be extremely happy to see that the ASIC can be delivered in 2010 Oct, (I've got BFL shares), but I won't be surprised that BFL bears lots of impatient/"scamming"blame for 3-6 months and actually deliver the ASIC units around 2012-12~2013-03.

Then, those one borrow shares to ciuciu will almost cover all the investment cost by the 150%~200% dividend from ciuciu, if ciuciu keeps refusing to buying back the shares and persists on this gambling.

HorseRider,

All good points, again.  We heard you.  We understand you.  But I have to agree with ciuciu here.  This is his thread, he has every right to place the bets he is placing and anyone so inclined has every right to lend him shares.

We know your position.  You have been very clear.  Now, please leave this thread alone and, if you wish, go start your own thread.

Thanks!

Good morning!

Ciuciu, so how is your shorting working out?

Has everyone who has lent shares to Ciuciu been receiving their interest payments on time as agreed? Has anyone successfully closed a position yet?

Given the strong negative cash-flow, highly leveraged position, potential for unlimited losses to Ciuciu, lack of posted collateral and recent strong moves against Ciuciu's position leading to massive capital losses therefore I am interested to see how those who lent shares to Ciuciu have fared with regards to protecting their principal.

Looks like the loss from just the 430 GIGAMINING shares when adjusted to USD is about $2,500 or about 116% more than the approximate value of the shares at the time they were sold short, or $2,150.

I only ask because I may be interested in lending some shares.

Hi sunnankar,

Actually, the shorting went smooth. Most of the bonds are returned now, but I can use some BIDBOND if you can lend me some.

Thanks.

Can any lenders confirm that Ciuciu performed in all material respect with the contract terms on time as agreed?

Well, so far as to ciuciu paying up, you can check out the address(es) in our contract(s) - the main reason why I did design it this way, so it is auditable for anyone. I haven't called my shares back yet and ciuciu hasn't sent any back so far... I really enjoyed the double dividends so far (~50 bitcents each week extra) but obviously it's something that even some kids could pay out of their pocket money, so I'm not sure if it gives much more credibility or is proof to scale up really well. At least it's a way to show that shorting is really possible right now in a way that it can be publicly verified and audited for the most parts (except share transfers which are private).
Also a lot of very valid points have been brought up in this thread (especially about scaling and about initial deposits/payments by ciuciu), so make sure to read it!

I lent both GIGAMINING and YABMC shares to ciuciu, he performed on our contract perfectly and returned the shares to me a few days ago.

Would lend again.  Anytime.  It was a pleasure doing business with him.

PS:  I have lost money on those darn YABMC shares, darn it all.  But the extra dividends helped ease the pain.  Thanks!

Hi,

ciuciu returned my 350 PUREMINING shares recently, no hassle whatsover. All coupons paid on time.
Very good experience, would lend again any time. Trust my 200 BITBOND he still has are in good hands.

My investment in puremining isn't quite going how I hoped, but the slightly better coupons helped ease my pain...

Hi ciuciu,

Thanks for sending back the 200 BITBOND as well, all received on my GLBSE account.
As per agreement, I returned 5BTC to your address: 15xNSVfS3pqEWvKnwS4o4KmpegQZcZUXsF

Thanks for the professionalism. No hassle whatsoever, all bond payments received and always on time.
Hope to deal with you again!

I also received back all my 30 BITBOND shares very recently, I earned all in all ~3 BTC with this deal and hope ciuciu could also profit a bit in the meantime.

I would like to thank all people who have lent me shares. Thank you very much for your trust!
I did make some profit, but I could had made more if I would have had more shares at the right moment. I hope you enjoyed your bigger dividend!

Thank you again!

I have returned 650 shares of FSB to Vescudero.