[GLBSE] SHORTING ... paying 50% MORE DIVIDENT

[ciuciu]

I want more.

Thank you.

[HorseRider]

ciuciu, are you working with a team of ASIC R&D team yourself? thank you.

[HorseRider]

ciuciu ,have you give any margin to those one lend shares to you?
if you lose the bet, what kind of back up plans do you use to cover the loss? is there any possibility that people will never get back their bonds and wealth again?

[ciuciu]

ciuciu, are you working with a team of ASIC R&D team yourself? thank you.

No, I don't.

[ciuciu]

ciuciu ,have you give any margin to those one lend shares to you?
if you lose the bet, what kind of back up plans do you use to cover the loss? is there any possibility that people will never get back their bonds and wealth again?

I do not get the first question.
It is very unlikely I will lose this bet! If anything happens, I have plenty of reserves to cover all the shorts I do.

Thank you.

[GeoRW]

ciuciu ,have you give any margin to those one lend shares to you?
if you lose the bet, what kind of back up plans do you use to cover the loss? is there any possibility that people will never get back their bonds and wealth again?

He's paying double dividends to lenders.

[ciuciu]

ciuciu ,have you give any margin to those one lend shares to you?
if you lose the bet, what kind of back up plans do you use to cover the loss? is there any possibility that people will never get back their bonds and wealth again?

He's paying double dividends to lenders.

I no longer pay double divident, I pay 50% more then the bond.

Thanks.

[ciuciu]

I need more!

[HorseRider]

I need more!

are you sure?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.msg987839#msg987839

[ciuciu]

I need more!

are you sure?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.msg987839#msg987839

Yes, I'm positive . One question for you: Do you still believe in Santa?

[Sukrim]

ciuciu ,have you give any margin to those one lend shares to you?
if you lose the bet, what kind of back up plans do you use to cover the loss? is there any possibility that people will never get back their bonds and wealth again?

He's paying double dividends to lenders.

I no longer pay double divident, I pay 50% more then the bond.

Thanks.

Well, to new contracts that is obviously.

@HorseRider: He didn' put up any (significant) margin, the 1 BTC I charged is more of a test balloon if he's able to send BTC to that address I gave and to cover fees. The trade is more or less only backed by his word and reputation and can be enforced a bit by the contract clause that also his GLBSE account would be in peril should he not (publicly auditable) fulfill the contract. As the amount of the trade (30 * ~60 Bitcents = ~18 BTC) in my case isn't that much, I'm relatively confident on that trade going well (not so much that the actual trade itself turns out really profitable) and that he won't take the money/shares and run.

[HorseRider]

@Sukrim

Ciuciu is going to the right direction but with a dangerous car.

Generally speaking the value of mining bond is at the risk of the ASIC and BTC appreciation. However, I don't think the profit room is enough for him to pay the 150% annual interest rate to short.

1) ASIC is to come out, however, will it be so fast as BFL claim(2010-10)? we all know the punctuality of BFL. I strongly believe that BFL will have to collect enough prepayments to seriously start to do the R&D job. So I guess we will be lucky to see some ASIC at the end of this year.

2) BTC appreciation: well, just look at the bidding and asking wall of every bitcoin exchange. the price is now sticking around.


So, is the mining bond, for example, GIGAMING, should be traded at 0.8BTC right time right now? If You buy GIGAMING shares and lend it to ciuciu, it will spend you 25- weeks to collect enough dividend from ciuciu to cover your cost. And now, we find that gigavps, our lovely handsome gigavps, have decided that he will chose to do some really "fair" thing but not only acting according to the contract itself: he will upgrade the contract once the ASIC comes out! Now, why ciuciu is keeping short GIGAMING?

The YABMC has not given any similar promise yet, as they have the same 1) and 2) doubts like I have. However,  the delay of the ASIC + the  choppy market of bitcoin + the 150% dividend will put ciuciu in danger.

So, I think ciuciu is at the risk of losing this bet.

Excuse me, ciuciu, I'm at your counterparty of this bet. I have bought some shares and I'm speculating on that there will be a fast bounce/recovery of this negative bubble which is going to broke. I have to present my reasoning to the participants.

I believe that Ciuciu has to buy the shares back. And I believe he is intended to buy it back very soon. If he is planning to hold the shares to the end of the mining bond, why would not he issue some mining bond contract and sell it at fair market value? This saves much time and money for him. Of course, how much cash flow it will be for the total life of the bond, ciuciu is not sure about.

What he is sure about is that this thread itself, the short action, will cause herding effect and panic selling of the bond holders. This is intended to be a short term action.


For the lenders of ciuciu, if you don't have ciuciu place margin bitcoin with you but just words and reputation, there will be the possibility that ciuciu lose too much that he cannot pay back all of your money. It's not that ciuciu is going to run away, but that he is there and willing to be responsible but without the permission of MR. Market.

[stochastic]

@Sukrim

Ciuciu is going to the right direction but with a dangerous car.

Generally speaking the value of mining bond is at the risk of the ASIC and BTC appreciation. However, I don't think the profit room is enough for him to pay the 150% annual interest rate to short.

1) ASIC is to come out, however, will it be so fast as BFL claim(2010-10)? we all know the punctuality of BFL. I strongly believe that BFL will have to collect enough prepayments to seriously start to do the R&D job. So I guess we will be lucky to see some ASIC at the end of this year.

2) BTC appreciation: well, just look at the bidding and asking wall of every bitcoin exchange. the price is now sticking around.


So, is the mining bond, for example, GIGAMING, should be traded at 0.8BTC right time right now? If You buy GIGAMING shares and lend it to ciuciu, it will spend you 25- weeks to collect enough dividend from ciuciu to cover your cost. And now, we find that gigavps, our lovely handsome gigavps, have decided that he will chose to do some really "fair" thing but not only acting according to the contract itself: he will upgrade the contract once the ASIC comes out! Now, why ciuciu is keeping short GIGAMING?

The YABMC has not given any similar promise yet, as they have the same 1) and 2) doubts like I have. However,  the delay of the ASIC + the  choppy market of bitcoin + the 150% dividend will put ciuciu in danger.

So, I think ciuciu is at the risk of losing this bet.

Excuse me, ciuciu, I'm at your counterparty of this bet. I have bought some shares and I'm speculating on that there will be a fast bounce/recovery of this negative bubble which is going to broke. I have to present my reasoning to the participants.

I believe that Ciuciu has to buy the shares back. And I believe he is intended to buy it back very soon. If he is planning to hold the shares to the end of the mining bond, why would not he issue some mining bond contract and sell it at fair market value? This saves much time and money for him. Of course, how much cash flow it will be for the total life of the bond, ciuciu is not sure about.

What he is sure about is that this thread itself, the short action, will cause herding effect and panic selling of the bond holders. This is intended to be a short term action.


For the lenders of ciuciu, if you don't have ciuciu place margin bitcoin with you but just words and reputation, there will be the possibility that ciuciu lose too much that he cannot pay back all of your money. It's not that ciuciu is going to run away, but that he is there and willing to be responsible but without the permission of MR. Market.

We traded currency inflation for hash inflation.

[ciuciu]

Hi,

Gigamining payment sent, Bitbond was sent yeserday. By mistake I paid YABMC twice, I will compensate for it next payment.

Have a great week!

[ciuciu]

@Sukrim

Ciuciu is going to the right direction but with a dangerous car.

Generally speaking the value of mining bond is at the risk of the ASIC and BTC appreciation. However, I don't think the profit room is enough for him to pay the 150% annual interest rate to short.

1) ASIC is to come out, however, will it be so fast as BFL claim(2010-10)? we all know the punctuality of BFL. I strongly believe that BFL will have to collect enough prepayments to seriously start to do the R&D job. So I guess we will be lucky to see some ASIC at the end of this year.

2) BTC appreciation: well, just look at the bidding and asking wall of every bitcoin exchange. the price is now sticking around.


So, is the mining bond, for example, GIGAMING, should be traded at 0.8BTC right time right now? If You buy GIGAMING shares and lend it to ciuciu, it will spend you 25- weeks to collect enough dividend from ciuciu to cover your cost. And now, we find that gigavps, our lovely handsome gigavps, have decided that he will chose to do some really "fair" thing but not only acting according to the contract itself: he will upgrade the contract once the ASIC comes out! Now, why ciuciu is keeping short GIGAMING?

The YABMC has not given any similar promise yet, as they have the same 1) and 2) doubts like I have. However, the delay of the ASIC + the  choppy market of bitcoin + the 150% dividend will put ciuciu in danger.

So, I think ciuciu is at the risk of losing this bet.

Excuse me, ciuciu, I'm at your counterparty of this bet. I have bought some shares and I'm speculating on that there will be a fast bounce/recovery of this negative bubble which is going to broke. I have to present my reasoning to the participants.

I believe that Ciuciu has to buy the shares back. And I believe he is intended to buy it back very soon. If he is planning to hold the shares to the end of the mining bond, why would not he issue some mining bond contract and sell it at fair market value? This saves much time and money for him. Of course, how much cash flow it will be for the total life of the bond, ciuciu is not sure about.

What he is sure about is that this thread itself, the short action, will cause herding effect and panic selling of the bond holders. This is intended to be a short term action.


For the lenders of ciuciu, if you don't have ciuciu place margin bitcoin with you but just words and reputation, there will be the possibility that ciuciu lose too much that he cannot pay back all of your money. It's not that ciuciu is going to run away, but that he is there and willing to be responsible but without the permission of MR. Market.

So you are concerned about me and other people losing their shares?
At the same time you want them to buy GIGAMINING, instead of them buying their own ASIC.

In your post you forget some elements:
- the difficulty is going up, wait for ASIC to start "testing".
- the reward will drop to 25.
- if any other ASIC is coming before BFL you are all broke.
- There can be no big advantage for the first orders, if BFL runs the ASIC for a week to "test stress them".

So, I strongly believe I'm on the right path.

I encourage you to go to the lending section, there are offers with 2% weekly guaranteed, which is better than any mining bond will ever pay.

Thank you for your concern.

[HorseRider]

- the reward will drop to 25.

Yes, in 6 months. but I don't think waiting for it while paying 150% annual interest rate is for your best interest.

And the lenders who earn this interest actually take as much risks as any where else someone should have to take to earn that much.

- the difficulty is going up, wait for ASIC to start "testing".
 There can be no big advantage for the first orders, if BFL runs the ASIC for a week to "test stress them".

There are still lots of GPU miners. when the ASIC joins in, the GPU miners will leave the mining business first, which will ease the steps of difficulty increase at the very beginning stage, like you said, "test" stage.

the difficulty adjust for every 2 weeks. if the BFL test the ASIC for one week, the production of the existing mining rigs won't be influenced very much.

- if any other ASIC is coming before BFL you are all broke.

ASIC is realistic but with high barrier. One should take lots of money to develop it. That's why some of the really early investors of bitcoin, who should have made lots of money, have to fund their bitcoin R&D through pre-payment and equity financing.

A secret ASIC R&D team? less than 1% possible. So, I take the risk buy in the dip you created. what's your evaluation of the possibility that there is a secret ASIC R&D team and they can do faster job than BFL?

I encourage you to go to the lending section, there are offers with 2% weekly guaranteed, which is better the any mining bond will ever pay.

You are not risk on the lending section with the money you get from selling the shares borrowed from people, are you?

[ciuciu]

- the reward will drop to 25.

Yes, in 6 months. but I don't think waiting for it while paying 150% annual interest rate is for your best interest.

And the lenders who earn this interest actually take as much risks as any where else someone should have to take to earn that much.

- the difficulty is going up, wait for ASIC to start "testing".
 There can be no big advantage for the first orders, if BFL runs the ASIC for a week to "test stress them".

There are still lots of GPU miners. when the ASIC joins in, the GPU miners will leave the mining business first, which will ease the steps of difficulty increase at the very beginning stage, like you said, "test" stage.

the difficulty adjust for every 2 weeks. if the BFL test the ASIC for one week, the production of the existing mining rigs won't be influenced very much.

- if any other ASIC is coming before BFL you are all broke.

ASIC is realistic but with high barrier. One should take lots of money to develop it. That's why some of the really early investors of bitcoin, who should have made lots of money, have to fund their bitcoin R&D through pre-payment and equity financing.

A secret ASIC R&D team? less than 1% possible. So, I take the risk buy in the dip you created. what's your evaluation of the possibility that there is a secret ASIC R&D team and they can do faster job than BFL?

I encourage you to go to the lending section, there are offers with 2% weekly guaranteed, which is better the any mining bond will ever pay.

You are not risk on the lending section with the money you get from selling the shares borrowed from people, are you?

We will see my friend! Now, can you lend some GIGAMINING?

[HorseRider]

ciuciu, how much reserves do you have if you lose the bet? ( of course, you might win at last but there is risk you will be the one lose money, right?)

I find your this post interesting. You created a GLBSE asset, but you're asking donations for GLBSE fees. It's not likely that you cannot afford to pay the GLBSE fee, but it seems that this money is still big enough to raise up a donation..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88008.msg967700#msg967700


So, just keep in mind the risks for borrowing the shares to ciuciu.

[HorseRider]

We will see my friend! Now, can you lend some GIGAMINING?

Of course, no. In my own evaluation, I think lend shares to you is risk. If you accept, I can find someone lend you shares, but you have to paydeposit 100% margin money.

[ciuciu]

ciuciu, how much reserves do you have if you lose the bet? ( of course, you might win at last but there is risk you will be the one lose money, right?)

I find your this post interesting. You created a GLBSE asset, but you're asking donations for GLBSE fees. It's not likely that you cannot afford to pay the GLBSE fee, but it seems that this money is still big enough to raise up a donation..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88008.msg967700#msg967700


So, just keep in mind the bond for borrowing the shares to ciuciu.

More than you think! Go ask hashking and Patrick if you want to find out.

Don't be confused about the bond price you see on GLBSE. They are just smart money, protecting their investments. They will soon ask for more money from you for "UPGRADE".

Good luck! Now, I will ask you politely to stop thread crapping!

Thank you.