Well, miners were installing hash power long before BTC even had a price. And difficulty rose faster than the price. There will always be some miners willing to hash at a short-term loss for the potential reward of long-term gains. That's how all business works.
History does not show the hash rate to be a one-way function of BTC/USD. They are correlated indicators demonstrating two-way causality.
people do all sorts of irrational stuff, or might even just have been investing for the future in this case. this doesnt make the hash rate a fundamental of bitcoin. this is a fallacy you see quite often here and in articles about bitcoin. people think that bitcoins are created from computing power and that's what gives them value because computing power is expensive. even if bitcoins were created from hashing this wouldnt give them value. and they aren't. |
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why buy a cheap debit card at a bank when you can wire money to a european bank account of a japanese company, place a buy order, install the bitcoin client, wait an hour until the blockchain is loaded, withdraw bitcoins, wait to receive it and spend it on your bitcoin-accepting porn site, which makes you wait another our until your transaction has 6 confirmations because of fraud.
if you haven't lost your youknowwhat in the meantime.
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their official story is so full of BS I'm tired of even discussing it.
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Do you agree or disagree with this line of argument?
P1: If something's exchange-value is derived from what enough people believe it's use-value could be in the future, and enough people belief it will be more useful in the future, then it's exchange-value is greater than it's current use-value. (i.e. price is largely determined by speculation).
P2: Bitcoin's exchange-value is derived from what enough people believe it's use-value could be in the future, and enough people belief it will be more useful in the future.
C1: Therefore, Bitcoin's exchange-value is greater than it's current use-value.
agree. And:
P3: If something's exchange-value is greater than it's current use-value, then it is probably bad*.
P4: Bitcoin's exchange-value is greater than it's current use-value.
C2: Therefore, Bitcoin is probably bad.
don't agree. my whole argument is that these prices are ridiculous. whether bitcoin as a technology holds any merit (aka is "not bad") remains to be seen. we still have railroads even though there was a mania. my guess is that bitcoin isn't even the myspace of e-currencies but one of its predecessors. |
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Then we should argue about what the "fundamentals" are of bitcoin. Your argument seems to be that the fundamentals are some napkin estimates of money supply.
I tried to treat botcoin as what it claims to be: a monetary system. if you have a better way of judging a monetary system please add to that thread. I don't claim to have the holy grail on bitcoin fundamentals and my thread was just rough estimates, but the hash rate definitely is not a "fundamental" (of the underlying value!) of bitcoin. the difficulty results from the hash rate which is a function of the price, because miners (should) only install hashing power that is still profitable. i.e. hash rate is a function of BTC/USD, not the other way around. |
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did you even read it? he said pump-and-dump, not ponzi. if you wanna pick nits, the entire system qualifies as a pyramid scheme UNLESS bitcoin is hugely successful. I've gone into the likelihood of that happening, and how "huge" this success would have to be in my other thread. not an investment, not meant for speculation, does not pay a return, and is not a busines
well, people here treat it as all of that. if something is not "meant" to be for speculation, but all it is currently used for is speculation, I might just as well see whether this speculation might pay off and compare it to other "investments". |
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all they can do is set the last price at 17, which makes sense because that was the last price before the rollback. OMG, bitcoins will be priceless!
priceless or worthless? |
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it's funny what qualifies as a rebuttal on this board. the best thing you can come up with "you don't understand this technology". well, you don't understand manias. you assign value to something based on the potential of a technology. good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Maniaif you leave fantasies of what "could be" aside the fundamentals dont justify a price exceeding 1/100th of what is currently paid for a bitcoin. probably less. rest of it here http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=21702.0 |
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so this means in half an hour all the fun is starting again?
(of course I'm not talking about trading bitcoins, but watching traders rage about mtgox again)
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thats funny. account balances significantly off in OLD accounts? hello?
didnt they check whether the overall balance of all accounts matches their holdings? DAILY at least?
their place probably looked like a brothel for last few months when they realized they are raking in thousands of dollars a day for running a website.
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alright, I take back "impress". the point was: apparently they have the private keys on-site.
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I would be quite worries about that happening if I was running mt.gox. Basically you have an office with $15M in cash lying around (considering mt.gox controls 500k BTC). Anyone can walk in and force mt.gox to transfer all those BTC's to his wallet and there is absolutely nothing he can do to either get those funds back or try to find out the identity of that thief.
A normal bank doesnt have $15M in cash in their vaults and they are much better secured then 2 nerds in a communal office building.
I doubt that a normally prudent person would have the wallet file/s for all of those btc in their office all in one place. Then again... MtGox... Just look under the doormat  apparently they do. he was asked on IRC to transfer 400kBTC to proove he still has control over it. he did, an hour later. you think he went to his bank locker to impress some IRC guys? |
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except that anything made in sl is just as worthless as bitcoins... lol....
sl will replace the USD one day, it's inevitable!  the funny thing is, people were saying similar things at the heights of the SL hype. not replace, but that it'll be used for realworld trade. |
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I think on balance, a legitimate three million dollar a year business is worth more than the temporary winnings from any crime they could commit. Given the growth potential of Bitcoin, it is conceivable that being the first and most established exchange could also end with them earning billions not millions.
that's assuming a successful business forever. one day they might start to cover business expenses with trader's money because they have to or go under. this has happened before with brokers. that's the reason the SIPC was created: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_Investor_Protection_Corporation |
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I think we will find that a major, if not the predominate use of BTC, will be as a store of value.
imho money can only function as a store of value if that function is a "side show" , i.e. the medium of exchange function is predominent. people have to be _very_ convinced they can get out of their position. for example, they've been able to spend their dollars their entire lifes. and even given that, investors react rather panick-y if they suspect that might change (see recent shift towards real assets/commodities since 2008). if you buy bitcoins now even though it isnt really a medium of exchange, I wouldn't call that storing value. it is speculation on bitcoin's success as a medium of exchange. nothing wrong with that though, if you're convinced of its success. but it is comparable to investing in a startup company, not to storing money at a bank. |
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I am trolling his thread by not allowing normal discussion. Everyone here knows what he's trying to do, and if the
what am I trying to do, tell me? manipulate prices while noone is trading? that makes sense  I don't even have an account at an exchange. bitcoin intrigues me because of its technology and potential, so of course you think about "investing" (really, speculating on its success). decided against it. here's (part of) the reason. if you're not interested, go away. if you have something to add, you're welcome. Let's see... generating 2.5 million coins a year for 3 years...
for 1.5, until 2013 |
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go away, yes I'm trolling this pathetic thread. you are trolled by this pathetic thread |
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if you have to trust the other node it is like a "bitcoin bank", or mybitcoin.com.
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dont have one though.
