wow, looks pretty amazing! I'm really glad i found this thread, will watch this one closely! Like to join a community right from the beginning. Good luck with the project, and keep us updated 
I will be back shortly to answer a few more questions and answer a few more PM's.
DAG with zk-SNARKs looks very promising. But can you rely only on donations to fund development? Are you planning to work on this on your own? How to get some stone?
Sorry Stone is not available just yet, if you wish to help, you may donate for a potential future share in Stone. |
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wow, looks pretty amazing! I'm really glad i found this thread, will watch this one closely! Like to join a community right from the beginning. Good luck with the project, and keep us updated
I will be back shortly to answer a few more questions and answer a few more PM's.
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Now this sounds like a good idea.
No wasting time, no marketing smoke and mirrors, just a focus on development.
How long do you think this will take?
Will you need a trusted setup with key signing like for ZCash?
I heard there is a thing called ZStarks (or something like that) that does not require the trusted setup.
Exactly, there should be no need for smoke and mirrors with any cryptocurrency related project, i'm not interested in selling a fluff project, i'm interested in presenting the code upon completion, and that will be the decider.
I have done a small amount of research on STARK's, and from what i can see there proofs are too large for a DAG/blockchain, perhaps in the future this may be a possibility.
From what i read, STARK's require ~1.2MB proof, whereas zk-SNARK only require~300bytes proof, also STARK's require around 140gb memory for proving. For now i am experimenting, researching and brainstorming the best methodology, i have a few possible scenario's/ ideas, which require testing.
The whole project to a beta release should only take ~1-2 months in an ideal world.
Anonymous DAG-based decentralized value is a great step. Watching.
Thankyou for supporting.Keep an eye on this, any idea of a drafted roadmap?
No sorry not at this stage, i have my personal scrap drafts but they are no where near presentable.How will i do if i want to get this token?
Hi, sorry it is not available at this stage. |
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Interesting, need some more info from you dev and the project, I will donate some BTC to $STONE as I did for $XEL. Hope to hear some more news on this project soon. Cheers.  you say "Stone will be forked from the RaiBlocks codebase"
so Stone will have the same supply like Raiblocks $XRB? around 133M (after burn) or around 300M (before burn)?
These details are yet to be determined, but i'm leaning towards a 100M supply cap.
Whilst we are on the subject, would anyone like to suggest a fair method of distribution? I'm not interested in large holders gaining most of the supply, i don't approve of these pump schemes. I've been pondering around a multi-method distribution, similar to a bitcoin airdrop, but with using multi currency snapshot 70% to XRB/BTC, and with the remaining 30% to donators. This is just a thought, please don't be afraid to suggest idea's. |
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Congrats, lets pray the server upgrades were substantial. |
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I think this is great project, do you have another information about this project like website, roadmap and whitepaper?
Hi, this is a pre-ann, so its a stripped down version lacking all the fluff. I'm not attempting to sell a product, so i feel there is need to create hype whitepapers + website's at the moment, the code will speak for itself, after there's a working version, we will focus on advertising. |
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RaiBlocks is an interesting coin, I've been doing it since February this year, but how much do I remember they have a problem with the wallet? are you from the team? what exactly do you want to change? or just a fork? and the moderated branch will only push you away. (I think only if the Russian branch ) |
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I've been meaning to learn more about DAG protocols and also zkSNARKs, so now I can do both in one place . Gonna be watching this one. I appreciate your support, i will do my best to educate not only myself but others around me of these protocols & technologies along the way. |
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self-moderated. Why is that?
Hi there , For the same reason most projects self-moderate, to prevent spam & fud. |
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 IntroductionStone will be the first DAG (direct acylic graph) data-structured digital currency with private transactions, allowing instant, fee-less anonymous transaction with high scaling (up to 7,000txs per second) Stone will be forked from the RaiBlocks codebase, whilst the chain is not near completion as it currently stands and it just myself who will be working on the project, i do not offer high quality illustrations & impressive marketing, what i do offer, however is highly scalable, private, instant a fee-less transactions, all on a decentralized network once the project is completeWork Ethics
What i can promise you- Dedication
- Constant updates
- a finished product
- a quality product delivered in a timely manner
What i cannot promise you- Exchange listings
- Price increases
- Advertising
- False hype
- An unfinished product, i always complete a project in time.
This pre-announcement is merely just the beginning of a long path, the stepping stone for a great advance in an already amazing pre-existing technology. I cannot express enough respect Colin and his innovative idea which has solved the blockchain debacle, a incredible amount of work and dedication has gone it to his project and Stone will never discredit his efforts.MethodologyI've been experimenting with the idea of using zkSNARKs, similar to the tech used in the ZCash cryptocurrency, this will prove to be a challenge since we are no longer using a blockchain, we are using a DAG.
From my findings with drafts between the balanced-weighted vote & sk-SNARKs, unfortunately the implementation will not transact in-line in the manner i originally set out to achieve, therefor i have played with the idea of off-chain addresses, t-addresses (Stone) for standard transactions & z-addresses (zStone), with an exact exchange between paired wallets for a private untraceable transaction. My idea further extends to to have Stodes (Nodes), which act as a direct atomic swap 1:1 with Stone & zStone, anyone would be able to see the the swap 1:1 between the two, but no one would be able to see where you have received the zStone as it was transacted off-chain.
OFF-CHAIN
Bob -> Alice
(zStone) Transactions -> (zStone) Received
SWAP
Alice -> Ted (Node) -> Alice
(zStone) Swap 1:1 -> Receive/Send -> (Stone) Received
Alice receives a private transaction from Bob via zStone, Alice now has 100 zStone, Alice now wants standard Stone, she swaps the 100 zStone for Stone 1:1 via a Stone node. The end result is Alice successfully has completed a private transaction with Bob, and swapped back into the base currency, all within the wallet, this method allows the DAG protocol to still function with its representative method.
Apologies in advance for the rough draft schematics, this is not anywhere near complete and is subject to change.
zStone would not be a separate currency and not tradable on an exchange, its simply the channel to achieve completely private transactions, with a swap 1:1 with Stone, they would not be worth anymore or any less.
Beautiful splash screen mock up work by rmena123
a very short summary, zkSNARKs have 4 main ingredients:
A) Encoding as a polynomial problem
The program that is to be checked is compiled into a quadratic equation of polynomials: t(x) h(x) = w(x) v(x), where the equality holds if and only if the program is computed correctly. The prover wants to convince the verifier that this equality holds.
B) Succinctness by random sampling
The verifier chooses a secret evaluation point s to reduce the problem from multiplying polynomials and verifying polynomial function equality to simple multiplication and equality check on numbers: t(s)h(s) = w(s)v(s)
This reduces both the proof size and the verification time tremendously.
C) Homomorphic encoding / encryption
An encoding/encryption function E is used that has some homomorphic properties (but is not fully homomorphic, something that is not yet practical). This allows the prover to compute E(t(s)), E(h(s)), E(w(s)), E(v(s)) without knowing s, she only knows E(s) and some other helpful encrypted values.
D) Zero Knowledge
The prover permutes the values E(t(s)), E(h(s)), E(w(s)), E(v(s)) by multiplying with a number so that the verifier can still check their correct structure without knowing the actual encoded values.
The very rough idea is that checking t(s)h(s) = w(s)v(s) is identical to checking t(s)h(s) k = w(s)v(s) k for a random secret number k (which is not zero), with the difference that if you are sent only the numbers (t(s)h(s) k) and (w(s)v(s) k), it is impossible to derive t(s)h(s) or w(s)v(s).
(Christian Reitwiessner 2016) Wallet design by Apocabal Splash screen:  Overview:  Distribution
Update 22/01/18
As expressed by a few supporters we have come to the result that we would like to see a substantial plan ahead, which will persist as follows;
30% donators (if any)
32.5% Airdrop to BTC holders
22.5% Airdrop to existing XRB holders.
10% Givaway (Thread Posters/Twitter Enhancers)
5% Development fund
Whilst i do not wish to run a crowdsale, donations are welcome and will go towards my efforts in development. Donators will be noted in a database & published alongside Stone's main announcement, your assistance will not go unnoticed, depending on the distribution method selected as a community, donators may be included as a portion of distribution, we must first select method of distribution and work from there. For now donations should be treated as exactly that, donations.
 Please note, this announcement thread is a pre-ann and is not complete, i will update as the project progresses. References:RaiBlocks Announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1381323.0RaiBlocks whitepaper: https://raiblocks.net/media/RaiBlocks_Whitepaper.pdfzkSNARKs: https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/12/05/zksnarks-in-a-nutshell/Bitcoin: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdfDAG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_reduction |
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congrats on the new all time high! - i have to admit i'm a holder of a small bag since 2013, still not selling, even though my small bag is now not-so-small, i try not to think about the price.
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it will unlikely replace gold, as gold has its "shiny" factor. bitcoin is just a store/transfer of wealth.
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Spending our bitcoin where and when we can (I admit I'm guilty of holding) and educate people on bitcoin.
i agree - spending is the way to keep it all running smoothly - express your need for using bitcoins to stores in which do not currently accept bitcoin. |
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Bitcoin will always be considered as store of value while ETH will be platform for dapps (decentralized applications).
What determines the value of Bitcoin? I mean what justify for the high value? I would like to see it to reach $xxx,xxx in the near future before I go to Heaven. its just pure speculation, simply speculation, nothing else to it. (oh possibly HYPE + fear of missing out) |
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Bitcoins has regained its strong value, As of this posting, the value per 1 bitcoin is exactly 4786.59 US Dollar. Soon we will see more ways people can squeeze the most out of bitcoins. Since the advent of the internet to be profit oriented in the 90's, no one would possibly have imagined that the Internet would breed Facebook, Google, Uber, online streaming, etc. This is where we are with the Blockchain now. There exists a whole world of opportunities out there.
These opportunities have the unrighteous users of this cryptocurrencies to also used its advantage. We cannot deny for a fact that cyber crimes have been committed since the birth of the internet. Once, stealing was done with having guns, now, robbers can easily hack bank accounts or counterfeit credit cards to their advantage. Sooner, cryptocurrencies can be used to pay crimes such as services for creating counterfeit birth certificates and this is not far from happening. Actually, the US has already cases on this matter.
Another is the crime of buying illegal-drug emporium that used Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, politicians and policymakers took notice. Criminals, it turns out, really like bitcoins, which can be exchanged for nefarious purposes on the "Dark Web," with complete anonymity and, it seems, impunity.
Although, there are some articles that i have read regarding criminals cannot hide behind bitcoins, still, there are difficulties tracing transactions using cryptocurrencies. That is why law enforcement agencies should have a to change their procedures to pursue criminals who make use of the latest technology to commit crimes. Let the law find a way to evolve to address new tech challenges. There is no reason to expect that law enforcement won’t be able to get a handle on this new cybercrime.
Bitcoins were always used in crimes, just as fiat is, basically if it has a value - it can be used in crimes. |
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I'm trying to understand why are so many people against bitcoin? is it the innovation that scares them? the feeling of staying behind? the fact that that money will go to the wrong hands?
There will constantly be people against bitcoin, just as there are people against fiat, gold and anything that has value, its simply a difference in opinion, i just respect there opinion and move on, easy done. |
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Which one suits you the most?
I personally use blockchain.info + Samourai Wallet - with strong ever changing passwords + 2FA. |
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Bitcoin is laundering just the same as any foreign currency is laundering, its not, its just a currency, treat it the same as gold, silver or physical cash.
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I'm no genius, but 1million might be pushing it a little. Try $50,000 for a conservative estimate.
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