I have no first-hand knowledge of how the presale was conducted, so I can't praise or condemn that aspect of it. Your comments on that matter carry more weight than mine would if I were to make any, since you seem to be intimately familiar with it.

I'm not a fan of how they handled the Peter Todd relationship, where they put out a hyped press release claiming he had "joined the project" as their "Chief Scientist," while at the very same time he was posting on Reddit saying that they were simply a consulting client, being charged the same rate as all of his other consulting clients (including Monero BTW), paying him to do something he already wanted to do (tree chains), and that he wasn't even familiar with what they were doing. That particular episode stunk of sleazy and possibly misleading promotional tactics to me, and in fact I suspect they hired him specifically in order to do the press release, though of course I can't prove that.

Other than that and what I dug up about the odd (but small) one-week fast-mine I know nothing about VIA, but it did leave me with a bad impression of them.

BTW, the fact that their stuff runs on coindesk is another negative to me, since it seems likely coindesk only covers what they are paid to cover (or perhaps is a huge enough story they would be forced to cover it, but that certainly doesn't including anything VIA-related).

You can't simply drop all of the old portion of the block chain as XCN does because:

1. Due to the privacy features, it isn't clear what is spent and what isn't spent.

2. The possibly-spent outputs are still used and useful for mixing, so even if you could drop them, you wouldn't necessarily want to.

Regarding scripting, Monero theoretically has its own simple form of scripting (not Bitcoin scripting), but even that isn't used and may not even be fully implemented (and might be dropped or changed). So that part wouldn't necessarily be an obstacle.

Simply taking the mini-blockchain design from XCN and grafting it onto Monero without changes is impossible. We do have our own ideas for lightening the blockchain that are in some vague ways comparable to XCN, but in any case that is not a near-term development priority.

This argument is nonsense. The worst pump-and-dump coins have all traded at high prices at one time or another. You can't argue that because something trades a high price it is great, especially on a thread where people are discussing what is or isn't a good investment.

Note: I'm not saying it isn't a good investment, I'm just saying that fact that it trades at such-and-such a price doesn't mean it is one.


Yes, it did, and I corrected that above before your post. For the first 10000 blocks (roughly 2-3 days) there was no reward. For the next 30K blocks it had higher than normal rewards. That bizarre structure (as opposed to simply ramping up to the normal reward over some reasonable period) is nothing more than fastmine/instamine/whatever you want to call it, although a relatively small one in the overall scheme of things.

Yes you can mine BBR with a GPU. There is a special thread for BBR GPU mining: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=693118.0

There was no omission. I was making a specific point, without comment on your opinion whether the presale was handled well or not

Fact: 1/9 (correction noted and see below) of the eventual total coin supply (presumably a much higher portion of the current supply, but I haven't figured this out) was sold to a group of relative insiders (i.e. people who even knew the coin existed) within a relatively short period of time.

What the was used for and whether it was conducted well doesn't change that point at all. As I said, if you think presales are a good idea, you will likely favor this, particularly if it was handled well (which according to you it was).

I leave it up to individuals who care to decide whether that makes or a desirable outcome or not.


This is nonsense. There are plenty of ways of preventing instaming, etc. that have nothing to do with a presale, and if anything the extra coins rewarded in the first week encourage instamining-type behavior (people who are able to deploy a lot of the right kind of hardware quickly and get everything in place right away get a disproportionate advantage).

I believe coins should do the exact opposite: a slow-start method (first suggested to me by gmaxwell) where the earlier blocks have lower rewards. That provides a good opportunity to address any startup issues (download problems, build problems, etc.) and avoids giving any particular advantage to people who are good with getting stuff up and running quickly (note, this last group happens to include me, and I've made a fair amount mining new coin launches, so I'm arguing against my own interest here). I'll note in fairness that Monero didn't do this, though also fair to note that the current team was not at all involved with the actual launch.

If by "nerd" mining you mean dga-type stuff, it is true they use the relatively mature Scrypt algorithm, and that is what prevents dga-style "nerd" mining, not the presale. It also likely gives a major advantage to people with the best Scrypt ASICs, which if history is any indication (and I believe it is) will usually be people with close relationships to the developers of those ASICs or the developers themselves.

Whether or not anyone cares about that I leave up to them (obviously opinions about ASIC-mining vs. non-ASIC-mining differ widely). It certainly doesn't count as a strike against VIA compared to other Scrypt coins, I'll say that.


Important correction! I misread the block reward schedule. I will edit above to avoid misleading anyone.

EDIT: In further correction on VIA. They did have a slow-start period of 10K blocks (about 4 days) with no mining reward. I applaud that, though I probably would just include some tiny reward as opposed to zero (small difference).

But overall the reward for the first 40K (not including the first 10K) blocks was about 100K coins in excess of the normal reward. I still find that bizarre and close to being an instamine over the first week. I see no valid purpose for it other than giving insiders a chance to rent rigs and mine out some extra coins quickly when few people even knew the coin existed.

10 million coin presale out of the entire 30 million total. Correction noted: 92 million.

If you think presales are cool, you probably like this. If you don't, you don't.

The accelerated block rewards the first week were rather bizarre and probably the opposite of how it should be done, but that's a relatively minor 100K coins or so.

If by "all" you mean all of the members of the core team, and if by "loaded down" you mean individually holding more than a tiny (well under 1%) fraction of the coins then you are 100% wrong. You also have zero evidence for your statement, which says a lot about the credibility of things you are willing to spout off about.

If you mean a certain subset of loud investors who talk a lot about their holdings on the forum, it might be true. I really have idea, I don't follow what they say very carefully and I don't know if what they say is true.

It does seem to me the attacks and trolls have picked up lately. I don''t know why exactly. In that past that has coincided with big price rises, but that's not the case this time. Shrug.

As I said it I don't really know but it is likely more than thousands less than hundreds of thousands. Perhaps there is a question of termonology. When we say "don't own a lot" that is generally by comparison to premine/instamine coins where there developers generally own much more than a tiny single digit percentage. If you think something very roughly in the range of 1% is "a lot" then we own a lot!


If I remember correctly I sold a lot of it in the range of 0.0001 to 0.0005, which made it worth around 2-10 BTC. Given the relatively little effort I put into mining it, that was a reasonable return for me. I mined more and made more from mining BCN, in case that matters.

I think fluffypony indicated that we are likely more well off as a group (though certainly not all of us) than many on this board (also likely far less well off than others), and that is indeed why we can afford to work on the coin at all. So yes our positions that I call small will certainly appear large to some.


I don't particularly pay much attention to investment advice from random people on forum sites, trollboxes, etc. whether or not they happen to be XMR supporters or detractors.

If it is credible and verifiable proof from a source entirely outside of the control or influence of those responsible for the fraud, then I will believe it.


I don't care how good they are. As long as they are their project is based on lies and fraud I'm not interested

EDIT: Also, the precise reason for forking in open source is that when the original developers get badly off track, the community can give them the boot and continue on with a new fork. That is exactly what happened here. If lies and fraud don't qualify as "badly off track" I don't know what does.

The technology will live on. The project responsible for fraud and lies should not and likely will not. They will keep at it for a while, because trying to get some value out of their 100 billion premined coins is worth a fair amount of ongoing effort. But eventually they will give up on that even.


I have an open mind. If there is proof as I described above I will evaluate it in light of the other I've evidence already seen and possibly change my conclusions.


Because the two have nothing to do with each other.


As far as the evidence shows at this point, anyone who has believed "since 2012" story has been deceived. If you enjoy being deceived, then carry on. I can only tell you that Santa Claus isn't real. If you still want to believe, believe.

My feelings are it is called the trollbox for a reason.

As for your question, crypto_zoidberg seems like a reasonable enough guy to me. I've exchanged messages with him on various occasions. I don't worship him or anyone else, but I don't have anything bad to say about him either.

I'm not aware of any actual contamination of the binaries, and almost certainly it is just false positives.

If you're really concerned, download the source and compile it yourself. I never download binaries myself.

I've thrown out the concept of Second Mover Advantage several times. Maybe it isn't (won't be) Monero but the idea that no coin can or should replace Bitcoin is not sensible.

Of course people own portions of startups, even very large portions. This happens in a context where there are safeguards against abuses. Shares can't be sold to unsuspecting investors, and indeed usually insiders can't sell shares at all, except under very limited conditions.

Coins are not startups, and crypto lacks the safeguards that make investing in ventures with concentrated insider ownership (sometimes) viable in the conventional business world.

I don't really understand supernet, but it seems more like a startup to me than most coins. Still the safeguards that exist outside of the crypto world are not present. I take no position on supernet specifically though.

Even if he did, how does a wallet prove a date? The dates in the blockchain are faked, so can a wallet be faked.

Any proof would have to be external to the coin. Perhaps a published picture of a bytecoin mining group meeting at a conference in  2012, or something like that. Or some respected trustworthy person coming forth with a real verifiable identity and saying they were aware of it in 2012.

Failing that (and that won't happen, because it cant), no we won't believe it.

I appreciate your respectful demeanor Agent99, and this is not directed at you personally, but unfortunately there is nothing about this community worthy of respect. It is based on lies and fraud.  

It seemed cool to me at first, with the puzzles and deep web and all that. I really wish it worked out to be legit and interesting instead of being nothing more than another premine scam.

Define signficant. If you mean thousands, yes we own thousands. If you mean hundreds of thousands (~10%+), we certainly don't. If you mean tens of thousands (~1%), I would guess it is probably within that range, but where exactly I have no idea.


We'll have to agree to disagree. In this space where 99% of coins are obvious pump-and-dump scams, avoiding such scams is more important to smart investors than people investing enormous amounts in something you believe in.

There are other motivations available that can't be gamed by scammers. In particular we are all working on the project because we find it interesting and has long term potential to turn into something important and valuable (which likely would, or at least could, enrich us personally, but not particularly through direct holdings of large portions of the oustanding coins).


You are assuming we have both the net worth and the investment philosophy that would make investing more than we have a prudent step (or that we don''t care about such prudence). This is false.


You have not heard that from the core team, at least not other than fancifully. In fact you've probably heard that it could very well fail and be worthless more often from us.

What others believe or say or do with their money we have no control over.

I only had them because mining was fairly easy the first 1-2 weeks, and I sold a lot since that was my intent at the time. (I have mined and sold many new coins.) Once the difficulty shot up (I guess when dga got involved), I stopped mining, and I don't think I have ever bought any XMR, but it is possible

Given the lack of instamining, the rapid rise in difficulty, and the relatively rapid (though somewhat slower) rise in price, it wasn't possible for anyone to accumulate a large amount of the coin without buying them. And while most of the core team are comfortable enough to work for free (though only part time), we're not that well off.


No but large insider holdings are a necessary ingredient of a pump-and-dump scam. Since we don't hold a lot we can't be a pump-and-dump scam.

And no, I don't think a few thousand or even 10K are really a "large" portion. 1% of the coins is now over 30K. I certainly don't own anywhere near that and I doubt the rest of the team does either.

Who the hell are you and brand new 0 post puppet account?

I post wherever I want, especially where I see scammers who need to be called out for what they are doing.

I'm saying quite simply, sir, that you a scamming liar and your story is a fabrication.

Is that clear enough?