Didn't we just recently see in enormous cases what happens where the majority of people control funds? Governments insanity, all the speculative bubbles and misplaced resources, it's a catastrophe!

I see that taxes should be fair, but this sounds like people want to take the control over money flows away from investors and think tanks.

Please let me clearly state my opinion: no. Do not do that! Who cares for the economy if that happens? The politicians sure as hell don't. People dig their own grave if they use financial markets as scapegoats.

Seriously, guys.

- Initial distribution is irrelevant in the long run. I believe someone's proven that, go look it up or something.

- Financial speculation is not something that should be dominated by a horde of impatient people.

- The cool thing about Bitcoin? It's not democratic, it doesn't give a shit what the mob thinks. Bitcoin is market-driven with a little bit of programmer's influence. Don't like it? Go back to the incompetent and uncaring governments' currencies if you like that better.

You now see the chaos while market forces take control. But you cannot change that. All you can do is a binary "I'm in" or "Bitcoin sucks".

I'm in.

I don't understand. "Occupy London Stock Exchange"? Why would people go against a stock exchange? The info on Wikipedia doesn't look consistent, but it appears the thing's owned by entities like a Dubai exchange and Qatar. Apart from some kind of splash damage tactic against local investors, what exactly could be the point of this?

The website makes it even stranger; all the topics clearly aim at the government or the EU.

My opinion: the chaos is caused by the wrong people doing speculation. This is the first test if they want to become solid speculators. The sanity among players will have increased by the end of the year.

In addition, if things mature, you'll see users that aren't in for speculation profit, but rather for moving funds. Quite frankly, if those can work in BTC, it will be unimportant what the rest of the world thinks. BTC can come from the back-ends, from the nerds and the outcasts of the financial system. This is good because the average person cannot handle the necessary security measures to directly use BTC.

But let the market finish crashing first. The current mess will be sorted out in speculation, then we can go on. I think it's a good stress test on the whole thing -- if we can't survive this, the project is too weak anyways.

Cool, molecular! I'd like two of them. Shipping overseas is so slow.

Can you PM me your email- and bitcoin-address?

This will be a neat chance to try them. Indeed a totally awesome item to tip people with. And I love brass. Let's see how they look IRL.

I prefer speculating against trends. I actually bought some on the way down from 6 to 4, and sold some on the mini-rallies. I do go in-trend if it seems necessary, but it feels better to have someone take my order than pulling the trigger myself.

Call me strange, maybe I just like being the outsider. *shrugs*

I guess to make good money, one must be flexible though. My best deal was one where I bought in-trend and sold into the continuing one.

This. Bitcoin controlled by US money supply, directly linked to the Dollar? We already have that, it's called name your bank / Dwolla / PayPal / asdf.

That is not Bitcoin. It functions only through banks, needs no p2p network whatsoever, where's the point?

Cool war's. Hab' mich leider etwas früh auf den Weg gemacht, aber es wird ja hoffentlich nicht das letzte Treffen gewesen sein. (Ich hätte da noch drei weitere Bitcoiner, die dieses Mal nicht konnten und da sicherlich auch dafür wären!)

Was ich noch vergessen hatte: falls jemand, der mit mir gehandelt hat, einen #bitcoin-otc Account hat, bitte bescheid geben für Bewertung. (Und mir in dem Fall bitte auch eine geben. )

Oh, I almost forgot about the coin I promised for the preferences. *pays 50% interest*

Being able to set the limits on logscale would still be useful though. And there's still a 0 in the center, which isn't valid on logscale.

What makes you think all those "manipulative" things were caused by the same person?

When I see a drop causing panic, I sometimes also lower my bids, expecting the panic horde to sell regardless of price, or even with positive feedback for a bit.

As long as you have people falling heavily into such traps, there will be those happy to pick up the money. A move might also not be planned as manipulation at first, but just turn into it, with the one starting it thinking "oh well, if they want the game this way, it's fine too".

I'm just saying, this thread sounds like some conspiracy theory of a mastermind planning ahead what the market will do. I don't believe that's the way things really are. It's not a single strategy, but rather the fact that actors using a lot of money tend to think about what they do. Throw an opening at them, such as people doing stupid moves due to inexperience or panic, and someone might just figure out the right move and make a profit.

The large bubble itself was a good example of that. A single person could not make that happen, but the people who bought below 5 USD/BTC and sold above 20 certainly liked riding it.

Eventuell bringe ich noch 2-3 weitere Leute mit, mal sehen.

Falls jemand demnächst Bitcoins kaufen will: ich werde wahrscheinlich welche anbieten, gebührenfrei zum aktuellen Kurs. Wenn es mehr sein sollen, als man einem der neuen Android-Clients anvertrauen möchte, könntet ihr allerdings vorher bescheid sagen, damit ich einen sicheren PC mitbringe.

Ist das noch aktuell?

Flughafen oder Innenstadt München zum BTC tauschen wäre super. Überhaupt wäre es doch cool, vor-ort Wechselstuben für sowas zu haben. Arbeitet nicht irgendjemand in einem Laden in der Stadt, so dass er als Wechselstube fungieren könnte?

Mt. Gox und die Franzosen mit ihrem Gespinne machen mich irre; ich bräuchte gerade Bargeld, aber BTC -> MtGox -> lolFrankreich -> meine Bank -> abheben ... das bekommt man ja vielleicht nächstes Jahr, falls überhaupt!

Ahaha, that Libertarian chart is awesome! Yep, that's the world from my eyes. I like the axes inverted though, and leave a tiny little spot for the anarchists at the origin; they're admittedly no damn socialists, though similarly crazy IMO.

Zeitraum ist perfekt! Ich trag' mich ein, sobald ich genau weiß, wann ich kann -- aber der 21. klingt schonmal super.

On logscale charts, mind you!

I think the image up there does the job nicely. How long can that line hold without things getting reeeeeally awkward? The USD could do some hyperinflation, that might help for a while, but counts as awkward IMO.

And now I want to see 49 of your predictions of this kind that go the other way.

Actually, I want to point out something else: it's unreasonable to provide exact numbers, this must fail if you think about it. Provide infima/suprema, like "I claim event X no more likely than Y". That's the kind of thing you can create a bet on instantly. And thus, that's what is required for speculation.

Right, I didn't think of that. But the bot writers should know this problem, as it has been there for a while already. Still, it is a possible explanation.

I'm not so sure whether Mtgox gives warranty of their feeds being correct 100% of the time. I agree that this is very questionable, but might still be the case.

Mtgox more or less admitted long ago that the feeds get wrong data. I don't know what this is trying to accomplish, but it has been there for ages. The error is always a small trade showing absurd price.

The large spike? Someone bought. Maybe he's just crazy, maybe a faulty bot, maybe a try to start a rally. Who knows? I've seen much more insane movements on Bitcoin than that, so I don't know why people talk about rollbacks and stuff.

There is no reason to assume the opinion of suppliers should have a major impact on price at constant supply.

Sure, Bitcoin does indeed have a lot of small miners who might tend to sell at certain times rather than at others. But that is exactly where speculators come in, acting as a buffer against such fluctuations. Bitcoin has a massive amounts of speculators, their opinion should dwarf what miners decide about doing with a month's output.

A miner who decides to hold no matter what is nothing more than a speculator in the end. Whether he bought the coins at some price or the hardware for another makes little difference. Just like a speculator, some got the coins cheaper early. There is no time-frame in which an ending amortization time should cause more coins to be sold than at another time -- except immediately after a price rise, which obviously didn't happen much, given the speculative bubble we've seen in June. Had lots of people sold off mined coins when rising prices made their value met expenses for their hardware, the extreme price spike would probably not have happened.

Also, I find models focusing on mining increasingly useless, as the fraction of coins that have been recently mined grows smaller by the day. With over 7.2M BTC created, daily production is now falling below 0.1% of the existing coins. The relative fraction keeps diminishing, and they are shared among many small miners these days.

That said, I believe the statement to be false. Miner hardware amortization time may be important for difficulty, but is unimportant to price. Speculation is dominant, and thus the important part lies in the expectations of those holding or buying BTC.


PS: I find it bad practice to chain words like "real, actual, true, accurate" in a topic. Interestingly, such findings correlate well with false statements inside.

We all know "raping minors" for the magical trump card of western internet. Even if directed at a very shady person, I ignore this if it doesn't have solid proof. People get scared by the topic itself due to the child pornography laws, so vague accusations are used where exact explanations should be. I've seen this game often enough, the magical child porn weapon. Especially effective when one is able to insert data in another person's computer, but that's not mandatory at all.

It is time for some concise proof that Bruce Wagner had forced sexual activity with minors -- note that the claim was explicitly on rape -- to distinguish this thread from slander. In fact, the form of the thread itself is strange. Where is the link to the place where the "international business of selling opportunity to rape children" was exposed?