Has anyone else noticed Slush showing a lower hashrate shown than their miner is showing? I seem to have lost about 5 to 10Gh in the last few days or so, yet nothing shows different at my end? For weeks it's been solid and within a couple of GH.

You can probably get a 14oGH/150GH KNC rig for that on ebay, I've seen a few go for that ballpark lately. Mine manages just under 1BTC a week after the latest diff increase, down from just over. So If I bought it today it would probably more than break even. It did that weeks ago though. All jam now until it costs more to power than it mines.
In 3-6 months the 20nm rigs will be out, hashing at roughly 3TH for 13k a pop, power required will be much more, 2kw range ...so it's getting industrial now.
The most important thing to consider isn't difficulty or power or speed though. It's delivery. IF you're paying that kind of money you'll get a rig with a pretty short sweet spot where it makes the lion's share of it's income, and if it's like BFL...you'll miss that boat. You won't be hashing until its not worth it. Buying a big ASIC is very risky. A month lost hashing while others have been delivered to drive the difficulty up is a killer. Lose you serious income.

Dunno what people are thinking here, but it's easily possible to profit mining now, and it's not even got to weighing power usage vs bitcoins mined yet . If your rig breaks even and then produces more bitcoins (or altcoins) than it takes to power it..that's profit.
My KNC mercury is well in profit since end of Oct and not looking like it's going to be a doorstop anytime soon, most of that is down to the exchange rate and me buying it with flat though. (If I'd paid 20BTC for it, I'd be in trouble) I could also well it for more than I paid for it right now. I pity people with BFL rigs, they should have had jalas which at the time would have probably been doing better than my 100GH rig, but diff killed that golden opportunity thanks to BFL. Criminal. . The next KNC rigs due next spring are gonna be 3TH minimum by the looks...and they are letting 2400 of those into the wild...so enjoy this golden time, diff with those alobe isn't going to be pretty, not to mention the other big companies with big 28nm rigs due pretty soon.
In 3 to 6 months you're gonna need some TH to play this game. Personally I don't think it's worth the risk. Buying BTC will probably pay off better than mining them. Interesting times does seem to cover it somehow.

It was a reply, read before you  climb on that high horse dickhead.
I'm not  even slightly flustered, I have no reason to be.
Since people here have trouble reading I'll repeat yet again, I have not had a single problem with my rig, run like clockwork from the day I got it.
What the fuck Pheonix was wittering on about pickaxes? No idea. Get some sleep lol.

Many people have had more trouble than needed with faulty gear and even contacting KNC about returns , I haven't but I consider myself lucky. Isn't it the point of this thread to discuss KNC , so that others can see ALL info they may find useful when thinking of spending thousands on a rig? A thread full of fanboys who will accept anything and make a reason up why it's awesome ...that's no use to anyone. Balance grasshopper.

And shut the fuck up calling people who have realistic views based on fact trolls. How old are you 12?

So Mr Business owner, how many times to customers have to ring you to talk to someone and sort their faulty goods out? A dozen or more like KNC customers have reported? Is your faulty equipment time sensitive and losing your customers thousands while not operating? No? Then I suggest you stick to toasters or whatever completely different type of product you deal with and know about...nothing else costs a  customer money like a broken bitcoin miner. That hashing time can never be recovered. They are simple mechanisms as far as assembly is concerned, so you'd really imagine that they might leave KNC with at least some form of quality control procedure having been involved to prevent the problems some people have had like plastic left on heatsinks.

I have NEVER paid a penny for a faulty item to be replaced or repaired, this is called a warranty and is the whole fucking point of one. To keep the customer happy because he has peace of mind that his product will always be available during the warranty period, I have never even paid postage. When it breaks under warranty that is THE VENDORS/ MANUFACTURERS fault and their responsibility to sort out free of  charge.

I agree. Given they like to look good, they probably already have more like 5TH as a target so a small fail will be over delivering to us. A bit of a silly game in a way, given that powering them might be a problem at that kind of speed? People look to be wiring houses based on 2KW roughly...gonna be sick if it's not enough just for the thrill of an announcement from KNC. Better to be accurate as they can at these levels I think?

Not completely true, not due to KNC at least.
IF BTC were at the levels we all imagined now (100 to 300 range?) how well would everyone be doing?
You wouldn't have had a fucking prayer of selling rigs for what you have, the people who paid for rigs with any method wouldn't be breathing  a sigh of relief at breaking even and being in the black...much like the people who paid with 70k worth of BTC aren't. A KNC rig  wouldn't be worth anothing like what they go for now if the price of BTC wasn't where it is..and that has nothing to do with KNC.

They did deliver a better product than we paid for, faster by some margin. It was late, in my case 2 weeks late despite claims they were able to stay on schedule and eeven that they had shipped when they hadn't, a delay at the crucial time when it would have mined best. A great many things which are basic and simple were fucked up costing customers time and money...plastic left in units under heatsinks for example. Avenger is right in that they were test units cobbled together by a workforce that wasn't enough for the task. No mention was ever made of Nov orders being so much faster either.

My rig has had one problem, it was delivered 2 weeks past the time it should have been, otherwise it's been exceptional. Not touched it at all except a couple of updates. I know I was lucky though, others weren't. Hosted people got shafted for weeks. Lost a lot of hashing. No-one to support them, which was what they paid for, a working miner working 24/7 thanks to that support.

Saying that KNC are awesome because they are better than other crap companies isn't logical or fair. They are better and the obvious choice in a risky game, but they are a long way from as good as they could be with just a small effort. They fail on simple everyday basics of business.
All this "we're all falling asleep working long hours" shite..makes me sick. Plan better, get the people in, have a production schedule ready that will work. Then get some kip. One resource that's easy to find is human power, even for short periods, temp contracts. Every business will be using exactly this  type of resource right now to fulfill Xmas orders in this busy period.

Avenger has valid points, shame he feels the need to get personal and lose the logic. Doesn't stop him being right when he's right though.
If you can't accept the bad with the good, how can you make a logical decision about what is best to do now?
If this thread only accepts views that are positive and the real negative aspects aren't here, how can anyone new coming here see both sides?

Not at all. Someone who bought Jupiters early will have a lot of BTC stuck in hardware that hasn't paid them back yet by some way. Loads of people aren't close to break even in BTC terms. Selling a Jup for 28 BTC may seem wicked now to a person who paid for it in  flat but to a BTC buyer it's a loss even if you chuck in BTC mined to date.

Less payment options, crucially Paypal.

What the chinese bank did to ban BTC in some areas ..that's got to hurt demand over there to some extent. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions.html

Lack of details ..asking people to chuck 10k at a rig with so little info, especially about power consumption which may be a factor for some.
3TH seems a lot now and I think  they will be more like 4 or 5 even..but it may not be so hot in the 2/3/4/5/6 months they get delivered...there's another reason, time is critical yet seemingly not so much for KNC customers to get a realistic estimate.
Reason for that being that we may hold them to it, and they'd get tired again due to their piss poor management of staff and resources which leads to weeks of insomnia. Laughable. Manufacturers use a schedule. Not dice.

Not even touched the reasons I won't, poor communications and respect for customers, lying flat out, and quit while I got lucky thanks to an unexpected spot of good fortune without which I'd be losing big time ..which was nothing to do with KNC. If BTC were 100 dollars now we'd all be in a darker place.

Loads of reasons why, despite being better than other suppliers so far, people may not jump into a long uncertain game with KNC again.

Not much else to do was there really?

Price of BTC took a massive dive at the same time ...the sky is falling 

Didn't notice that, yeah..that's a long one. Swings and roundabouts though. Had several sub ten minute ones too. Go too far into that stuff and you'll drive yourself mad. Only sure thing about luck..it changes.

My merc made 1.008 over that period. 142GH =/- a couple of GH constant. That's actual, not calculated. On Slush.

Why not? They know that people are way past thinking logically about these things and will pay anything they ask without any details of what they are buying, which doesn't yet exist. A business to envy really isn't it? Customers who pay all your upfront costs based on a few scant details, more customers who are so envious of the first batch that they will pay much more for the same thing (knowing that because they paid in BTC in some cases, they will never break even).

People sellng Jups now for 18 BTC or so, thinking they struck lucky...but when ordered those rigs cost them more like 60 BTC at the going rate. Amazing that anyone would want to repeat that.

Previous customers with a day 1 Jupiter may have mined 10 BTC but maybe they remember when they paid..when a Jup cost them about 70 BTC which is far from a victory whichever way you look at it...and they had the sense to want to not use BTC this time ?

 I didn't want a phone call...a fucking email would have been nice though. 1st I heard was on this forum, hours after the things were sold. I bought a KNC machine mainly based on it's ability to be upgraded, which simply wasn't true for the vast majority of customers because the upgrades either can't be bought, or won't be compatible...even the Nov stuff isn't. 
As for the Neps, wasn't this a loyalty thank you thing ? The special price (or ability to buy one at all)? IF so, why allow greedy bastards to abuse that and buy 10? Instead of limiting to 2 or 3 each and restocking the cart when they had gone ..day 1 and day 2 orders...where did I remember that from? That way more of their loyal customers could have got a share of that loyalty payback.

People so easily forget that a Jupiter may be mining BTC a grand more valuable than when paid for, but the price in BTC is still not likely to be recovered. 70BTC = 70000 dollars plus now. Why the hell would someone use BTC to buy a rig after that lesson? You'd have to be some special kind of thicko.

The upgrade units were a bad joke, the fact that rigs were modular and we were told we could upgrade them was key to many, yet most people never even saw them available or knew they were on sale until too late. I came home and it was done and dusted. Didn't even get an email about it. Not upgradable for me at all simply because I couldn't have seen them in time and they won't be available again..the new rigs aren't compatible even if they have spares to sell. Looks like most of the Oct rigs aren't upgradeable now due to that.

All they had to do with any of these items was give us a heads up roughly when they'd be available...then someone who already funded them with batch 1 would have the chance to make sure they had that 10k ready to spend. People with their finances in order don't leave large amounts sitting doing fuck all when it should be earning interest or working for them no matter what that ignoramus just said.

Allowing people to buy 10 that they won't actually use while others can't order one ...that's bad too. With a little thought they could have limited numbers per customer for a few days to give more people that "loyalty reward" instead of people sidestepping the whole thing to supply them to new folk for a profit.

I wonder if there's a different list for Chinese orders, the batch split in some way? Going to be a case of when in the day they are announced to some degree if now, China gets 1st dibs and they may all be gone by the time the rest of us wake up.

Not to mention to check for plastic under the radiator stopping it cooling properly.

There lies the rub. Current exchange rate.
This is the main reason I'd not leap into one now...a month may cost a little more but should things change drastically re that rate it could end up bad for today's buyers. Already those BTC are worth 10% more in a day...it gets to 2k by xmas and you paid 20k for that rig in BTC value.

Dodgy times again but in a much nicer way than the last time.

Good to see that KNC learned from the 1st batch and the 2nd is better.
Now they need to learn to communicate a lot better and maybe get some staff in when they get to producing Neptunes and they have it cracked. That over worked thing is pathetic when all it means is poor planning in  staff areas for that short period. As with many businesses are doing now for Xmas, hiring some temp short term peeps is sensible.

So ..what we need to know now is why Nov boards are so much faster.
Thx for the info, good luck

Yeah, Nov..the one mentioned today just delivered...typo sorry, meant 670

Also wondering, anyone still mining altcoins and finding it worthy of the effort?

Hmm. Jup hashing at 670s, I thought the theoretical max was 144 per board? Seems not?