They may be heading to more power hungry rigs, but we don't know how power hungry yet. Even 2kw isn't anything more than a small electric fire which many homes run ...most small home miners won't be running 10 neptunes, maybe 2 or three max? No problem really as long as they pay their bills.
The problem for competitors, apart from trust and proven hardware is price.. can they compete with the price per Gh? Seriously doubt that unless someone new like KNC appear, which could happen.

KNC have been very clever at marketing and timing , I'd bet they have destroyed some companies like BFL completely. No tears there though eh?

Fun watching the shameless begging going on here

Fun watching us go over 1k too, which isn't that crazy as it's not even a 10% rise over the day ...small % rises will make a mark now it's this high.

I'm not diving in the new Neptune thing so far ahead of time if at all, but I haven't seen many people mention the likely (based on previous experience) delivery of rigs delivering far over the promised hashpower? They won't claim more until it's proved of course, but it seems likely to me.

If you were considering an order from elsewhere and saw this happen from a proven company...timed to come online before your rig had broken even (if it ever arrived), what would you do? Excellent timing of this offer from KNC if you think about that. Unlike other manufacturers, they have proved they can do it. Would you rather be mining  with KNC machines in 3 months or competing against them, or waiting for delivery even? Bit of a no-brainer to me even though I dislike some things they do.

People got refunds after shipping started. Had to beg for them but it happened. Generally you're right though.

What KNC say is often close to true yet not in some important aspect...take the claim that "Our innovative Bitcoin mining solutions offer a complete upgradable modular ASIC mining device - removing the delay, and complication of organising the various intermediaries required to assist in manufacturing your Bitcoin miner hardware." ..not true is it? The Oct and Nov units weren't even compatible and getting an order for an extra module depended more on you finding out before they sold out than anything. That claim is already proven not to be the case, or we'd all be considering buying new modules not new rigs. Still, it looks good and sells machines, although in my country that kind of misleading statement is illegal.

Apparently people already have, Hopefully not at the expense of customers who are genuine miners

Maybe they had better stop using the price as a sales tool then? After all, it could go anywhere in 6 months.

Could be worse, you could be an early customer that can't buy one because they sell out before you get the chance....because greedy people ordered 10 plus intending to play the game of selling pre-orders or getting refunds.

Of course the reverse would have applied had they been open for all, early buyers almost certainly would have taken the early leap of faith and tested the waters only to find them all sold out now once proved..which would be very unfair. Massive risks are now reaping the promised rewards (..another massive risk lol )

KNC always said they'd do this. They are keeping their word.
The only reason you're not an existing customer is that you chose not to be, which is down to you 100%.

Reading, a useful skill I can highly recommend.

Pointless trolling here is a waste of time, we all have 1st hand experience that KNC deliver and the products are good.

We're past that "will they" stage, now into "will it pay again next time" stage.

We all seem to have a view on that, but it's  a gamble we'd probably all agree would be better taken with KNC than most other manufacturers.

Hope your ebay sale goes well Pheonix, that would be just about the ideal scenario ..buy rigs, mine them at their peak then dump them for a large enough profit to pay for the upgrade to gen2 and still keep the BTC mined  If you'd been told you could do this 2 months ago you'd not have believed it I bet

I hope you're right mate, personally I see those two goons are greedy self promoters who say things to prompt a reaction from some sectors...I think it will take longer to get to those levels. Long term assuming it doesn't completely bust out due to some govt interference or something it's a wise move to collect them and not use them to buy risky mining rigs

Based on what Orama just said about them not "needing to" ..they now know they can pretty much  charge what they like for gen 2 and they'll still all sell out...so that's going to be the interesting thing, how many of your hard mined coins will you need to put back into the roulette wheel to play this round?

Interesting news.

I hope KNC learn how to send email so we can learn the whole story. I have had very few.

Just a little reality check here, had the price of BTC stayed where it was when we ordered or risen as seemed more likely back then we'd all be in a very different place right now. We had a lucky quadrupling of the exchange price which put smiles on our faces...and apparently erased all the other stuff that happened from memory.

I can't see them needing to use pre-orders at all now, a 50/50 split would be much more equitable.

I wish you luck if you jump on the double or quits game again, it takes balls or stupidity IMO.

Just caught up on this thread a bit more, and the absurdity/greed made me spew coffee all over my screen.
How do you spend a grand on a module that you don't know will run in your rig? Not only that incredibly dimwitted thing..but criticise others in the same thread who express logical concerns? Couldn't make it up. Logic left here.

You have no faith in the power of people and protest? Maybe you're right but often when something is wrong and enough people get behind it, the problem is solved.

As for the ASIC companies and how to make them better, I saw what Black Arrow did (or proposed to do), 50% upfront with order, the rest later when the product existed. ..that seemed quite logical and fair. If it worked or not, it should be doable.

While people chuck away money with their common sense in a safe deposit box on mars...not gonna happen sadly because no company will ever need to give a monkey's fuck about customers. They'll always be swimming in fools money.

As for this latest upgrade race that they handled like a one armed concrete orang utan gymnast ..they should have offered them to the ones they failed so badly by delivering weeks too late first. Discounted. For many reasons, but the obvious one being to  compensate them for losing so much purely due to KNC not being able to run a piss up in a brewery.

Yet again the engineers deliver the goods, and KNC shows its incompetence and how to alienate more customers. I feel for the guys who do the real work.

That's the heatsink on the fans lol
World record price for a fan?

Hilarious to see my next email doing the one thing I knew it would...ty and sell me more overpriced hardware. And bragging.

Odd how a modular system is suddenly not compatible with it's month later cousins..seems to me to negate the entire principle of modular systems.

A fool and his (non refundable.."we learned some lessons")  bitcoins are soon parted.

Next gen will have to be cheaper and waaay faster.. ..or it's not going to be worth having one. It will be interesting to see what they come up  with. They must know what the target is now, but telling us would kill any orders in Nov maybe? IF theey do manage a gen 2 worth buying, it will sell like hotcakes and murder thee ROI of anything currently hashing.

With so many variables to consider that is why honesty from manufacturers is crucial, on delivery especially. You can't expect to track them aall, but the one that you are paying money to you should be fully informed about.

Greed. People see some mad rise in the price of something, then they jump on there hoping the same will happen to them.
Common sense and a look at the past 6 months prices would tell you that the price trebled and it's unlikely to stay there.
We all hope it does, or rises more even. To ganble it would be sensible to know WHY the price rose, and estimate when a large number of people might bail and cash their profits in.

Buying a rig now, just before 2 major producers are likely to ship and a few months before KNC are due to release gen 2, to me looks fucking insane. Look at the effect of the 1st KNC batch...for a few weeks we've got a respite from the other producers and KNC then a shitstorm of high powered rigs will make this last diff increase cycle look like a ripple. Then all you need to add to your hurt pie is a correction in BTC price and you couldn't have done a dafter thing...and it will all have been led by greed imagining great profits.

Personally I'm hoping the BTC price stays somewhere close to 250, and that will save my late delivered rig from making a loss which looked very likely...maybe. Without this rise in BTC where would we all be now as far as wanting to order another rig, or breaking even? Screwed is where.

The main difference between attitudes to KNC here (Pheonix and me for example) is that some got their rig on time as promised, and others didn't and suffered a large rise in difficulty as a result as well as losing hashing time. Promises were broken, 15th Oct came and went despite them LYING about being on track, delivering stuff they weren't, altering the status etc. We all knew the possible risks and production problems they may face, we accepted those when we ordered.  We  also accepted that we'd probably have to update firmwaRE ETC. If you don't have a machine and are told wither lies or not told anything at all. (I have practically heard nothing from KNC directly in all this tiime. ..no updates, almost all info I got came from here ..so I wonder how customers who aren't on this forum managed? KNC aren't big on communication are they after all? ).

I find all this "we're busy" stuff pathetic. KNC sshould have planned and made sure they had enough manpower from the get-go like any other company has to. It's basic. Not having time to post on their own forum? I'd laugh if that weren't such a sad excuse. If YOU ran this company do you think you couldn't spare an hour a day, or hire a person to cover thee role of web support over FB twitter and forums? They can spare people to travel the world promoting that fucking documentary after all. Those people seem to have had an unrealistic delivery of an on schedule rig too which makes that film pointless and fake. In the real world on bitcoin they'd'be a very skinny couple now, having gone without money waiting for delivery for 2 weeks at least.

Good luck if you buy a Nov rig now, hopefully the price will save you. Personally I think a fool and his money are soon parted like granny used to say. IF you must take that risk, I hope waiting for gen2 wins out as far as risk is concerned and you give yoursrelf a getter chance.

Hmm, odd. I've always said I was lucky to have a perfect rig. Ran at max from day 1 apart from firmware updates which all worked and improved it slightly.

The fact that I'd never have known about the updates or anything else if it were left to KNC to tell me...which they haven't bothered to since they got my money....pissed me off though. The fact that they were over a week past their promised and oft confirmed delivery date which cost me hashing time and the fact that others were much worse treated by these people needs to be out there.
They are not the messiahs, they are very naughty boys.

If BTC was now at the price it was back when we ordered it would be a disaster for most people. Not as bad as BFL since they actually did produce the 1st rig on time and ship them all...but ignoring customers and lying to them isn't great is it? How the fuck I got an email telling me my rig was ready to be picked up in Stockholm a few days ago is beyond me..but it shows they haven't a clue at the very least.

People seeing the fairytale in the media could easily be walking into a dream of KNC being th wonderful competent company they imagine they are ..and if I were in that situation I'd like to see the truth, not some bullshit that would take my money and leave me disappointed.

They haven't the time to communicate on forums. even their own. According to Orama. I am eating my supper now, I can manage it. Ten minutes a day would be easy for them. Truth is they can't be bothered or they have nothing to say. Got your money..fuck off there's a good chap. See you when we want to sell you another rig.

Oh yes we have. http://www.plus500.co.uk/ if you have the bottle. Leverage though..so be careful if you have a go. Demo mode. Get used to it and see the huge losses you can make if you aren't careful.

If you paid in dollars. You're right. Saved by the bitcoins. Hope it lasts.


Someone will be along to explain the other side of that soon no doubt lol

I think some people ARE KNC.

Avenger has made several posts which are negative, yet 100% accurate. If that's poisonous he didn't make the poison, he's just reporting it.

On a brighter note.. I just woke up to see us hovering around the 300 exchange rate.  That I would never have guessed even a week back.

What a mess that could make of your reputation. Normal people outside of this mad world wouldn't stand for being treat like this as a customer for a machine costing thousands. Just not answering the phone alone would be enough. "We're busy" is not an excuse, that's all about planning workloads and fuck all to do with the customer.

What happened to you was deplorable. Hopefully the exchange rate will compensate you.

How many RMA's are there? Sounds like a lot if it's so hard to keep track.

If someone sent me a fucked product, then wanted ME to pay to send their shoddy product back to be replaced, then wouldn't act reasonably and speedily send a replacement because I may  be trying to con them in some way..ffs that's not a way to run a business.

It puzzles me how companies like KNC can spout all this commitment to the bitcoin economy, and not see that the bedrock of that economy is the ability for someone to mine the coins economically....and also the future of their business. People won't be back to lose another shitload of money in return for creating the coins to make the system work, funding the dev of the rigs...and being the only ones likely to not make anything.

In a gold rush the guys selling shovels don't break the miners legs with them..they need those guys to come back and buy again.