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121  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Elacoin dev continues to be incompetent, for the second time... Read on... on: May 14, 2013, 08:52:48 AM
I love that dog.

Anyway, I encourage you all to compile a coin using that insanely high value and see what happens every time you hit a difficulty retarget.

I imagine a value bnProofOfWorkLimit == 0 is not good.

But it will be == 0. It's actually pretty amusing to read the code for >> :

Code:
00416     CBigNum& operator>>=(unsigned int shift)
00417     {
00418         // Note: BN_rshift segfaults on 64-bit if 2^shift is greater than the number
00419         //   if built on ubuntu 9.04 or 9.10, probably depends on version of OpenSSL
00420         CBigNum a = 1;
00421         a <<= shift;
00422         if (BN_cmp(&a, this) > 0)
00423         {
00424             *this = 0;
00425             return *this;
00426         }
00427
00428         if (!BN_rshift(this, this, shift))
00429             throw bignum_error("CBigNum:operator>>= : BN_rshift failed");
00430         return *this;
00431     }
122  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Elacoin dev continues to be incompetent, for the second time... Read on... on: May 14, 2013, 08:47:04 AM
Correct.

Anybody using >> 10000 just doesn't know what he's doing.

Also you can see from getinfo that this coin started at 0 difficulty.
Almost true. There is no absolute zero difficulty in bitcoin. It started at 0.00024414

Anyway, my entire point was that he was trying to use this variable to control starting difficulty (incorrectly, at that), when it is not what it is used for at all.

It's a shame that he saw my post and changed it immediately. Would have been very funny if 51% of clients were running the 1000000 version Cheesy

Again, a damn million, 2048, 5739. It just doesn't matter - bnProofOfWorkLimit should be exactly zero.

You may discredit his code, but do it right, man. Otherwise:



123  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Elacoin dev continues to be incompetent, for the second time... Read on... on: May 14, 2013, 08:18:44 AM
I'm sure many people are still running the 1000000 client.

And it's hilarious that crap like this even gets pushed out. This guy has no idea what he's doing in the code. He's just editing random variables and hoping they do what he wants.
You do realize it is >> right? higher >> means a lower number.
Perhaps I phrased that poorly. Or in a way that you did not understand. Anyway...

Allow me to rephrase it another way. By using an example. On bitcoin testnet, that variable in particular is decreased in order to reduce the minimum difficulty.

You, however, decided to increase it from it's starting value of 20, to an insane value of 1000000. You are in for some nasty difficulty spikes because of this.
LOL, I wonder if you actually know programming.

It was shifted right. Bitops. SHIFTING IT RIGHT DOES NOT INCREASE IT, IT DECREASES IT.
False.

That variable is in place to stop the difficulty from ever getting too low. It serves as the floor for difficulty, basically. There is enough documentation online to prove this.

You have increased that floor from 20 to 1000000. Ergo, you have INCREASED difficulty by an insane amount.

You've already proven yourself to be incompetent. Don't even act like you know a damn thing about how bitcoin works, or coin creation in general.

Er, those values are preceded by a right-shift operator.  By changing the amount of right-shift from 20 to 1000000, he actually is making the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit smaller, not larger.  In fact, because uint256 doesn't actually have 1000000 bits, by setting the amount of right-shift to 1000000, he's basically setting the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit to 0.

I support all of your other posts, but this one isn't technically accurate.

+1

Code:
static CBigNum bnProofOfWorkLimit(~uint256(0) >> 1000000); // Elacoin: starting difficulty

I don't know what bnProofOfWorkLimit does, but whether he ">> 1000000" or ">> 2048" or "= 0" does not matter. At least if CBigNum implements >> correctly.

bnProofOfWorkLimit is a 256 byte integer, it has 8*256=2048 bit and Milkshake shifted all bits out. Kinda pointless.
124  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Alt-Coins on: May 14, 2013, 07:30:33 AM
Do yourself a favor and go read a book about currency markets and basic business practices.  Have you ever heard of the Euro? Do you have any idea why they created it?  I will give you a quick answer (one of many, but this reason is relevant to the present discussion): because Europe is millions of people of different cultures living very close together and having a dozen freaking currencies milling about was a TOTAL PAIN IN THE ASS. So they consolidated all that mess into 1 currency to make things easier.

Muahahaha, a professional economist talking, eh?

The Euro was introduced to eventually force a political and fiscal integration of Europe into a super-state. And because politicians are full of crap.

There was no solid economic reasoning for introducing the Euro and many economists warned and still warn about the risks of instability that the Euro causes.

Transferring this reasoning to altcoins: an altcoin is viable if it is different enough from other coins (e.g. confirms are faster) such that it could have a different use and market. Most of the new ones are worthless.
125  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Elacoin | Releasing In 1 Day | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine on: May 13, 2013, 10:11:25 PM
So is this 'elastic block' stuff a bullshit marketing gimmick or is it actually different from Litecoin, Terracoin etc

Did you read any of the thread? The block reward is based on network difficulty


Well higher hashrate = higher block reward, but higher hashrate = less chance of finding a block. So I am not seeing anything special happen here? Please tell me if I am wrong...
Higher hash rate means less chances to find a block for a miner N, but overall with difficulty the rate of monetary creation will be constant.

constant - for the individual miner
but overall: monetary hyperinflation.

But it won't get there, it'll die because nobody with brains will buy it.
126  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Elacoin | Releasing In 1 Day | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine on: May 13, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
So is this 'elastic block' stuff a bullshit marketing gimmick or is it actually different from Litecoin, Terracoin etc

Did you read any of the thread? The block reward is based on network difficulty

Yes, in hyperinflation manner, but since you crapcoin supporters don't know anything about money supply anyway it will probably work for you. For a while.  Cheesy

+1
I also mentioned it in my prev post. My post was probably too long for peoples short attention span disorder.
127  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: YAC - Proof of Stake? on: May 13, 2013, 09:18:52 PM
Try NovaCoin's 0.4.0 design paper. Some info:

https://github.com/CryptoManiac/novacoin/wiki/FAQ

Yeah, I might be totally wrong with the 5%. PoS seems more complex than I thought.

I based my guess on the function GetProofOfStakeReward in main.ccp, but I don't really know when/how the proof of stake blocks are generated.
128  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: ~๑ஜ۩۞۩ஜ๑~ SCAMALERT: POWERCOIN ~๑ஜ۩۞۩ஜ๑~ on: May 13, 2013, 09:10:16 PM
REASONS WHY YOU SHOULDN'T TRUST A GODDAMN THING OUT OF HDCLOVER'S MOUTH:
>HDClover spread FUD about YACoin
>Yacoin still came to BTER after this supposed "admin" was claiming it was a wallet stealer, etc etc.
>Cheesy-ass teenage girl fancy titles
>Is using a picture of a bitcoin in the altcoin forum (you came to the wrong neighbourhood)
>Is generally a s00pern00bert00ber with his
31337 h4xx0rz B01|) R3|) T3XT


+1

Another reason why you shouldn't trust hdclover:

hdclover registered 2 years ago, but didn't start posting until Dec. 2012. He's probably got more accounts maturing so that he can always claim that he's been a long-term member of this site.
Once this id goes "pooof" as his reputation dissolves in thin air he's just going to switch to another id.

Sad, but I'm pretty sure there's tons of scammers on here that do that.
129  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Elacoin | Releasing In 1 Day | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine on: May 13, 2013, 08:46:42 PM
so what are the STRETCHgoals for this coin?  Get it? HAH! Smiley

looking forward to it Smiley

Stretching all the way to the floor of 0.000000000001 BTC/ELC? Wink
130  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Forex broker plus500 has opened for Bitcoin trading. on: May 13, 2013, 08:42:59 PM
Ah, I was wondering how they manage to offer shorts on BTC. Now I know! Cheesy
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)

The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???

hm? as I understand it there are no BTC involved at all. No BTC are borrowed or sold on mtgox. It's just CFD (contract for difference), basically a betting site.


I don't think you truly understand how CFDs are synthesized. What do you think happens when you buy a FTSE or S&P CFD?

They need to hedge at least the net position of their clients - or they are betting against their clients position. For example if Plus500 has many long term investors holding BTC in their account they EITHER need to buy BTC in the same amount to hedge themselves OR they are betting that BTC is dropping in value.

Or they post complete fake prices, and I'm sure they cannot do this.
131  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Elacoin | Releasing In 1 Day | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine on: May 13, 2013, 08:32:07 PM
Elastic block reward algorithm based on the difficulty and Moore's Law
The more computational power you throw at it, the more each block will give.
The reward is halved every nine months to preserve the coin's value.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Why would that be a good idea at all? Why would an investor want to hold a coin that increases its money supply as soon as the price rises? In other words, if the price goes up, throw more miners at the coin and dump on the investors buying...

Here is what I think will happen:
  • there is an ELC price P (varying over time) where mining ELC is as profitable as e.g. LTC
  • assuming a constant LTC price, P decreases as LTC's difficulty rises and vice versa
  • if the ELC price rises much above P a lot of hashpower moves to ELC. LTC's difficulty decreases and hence P increases until the equilibrium is found again

This happens with all altcoins. However, ELC reaches the equilibrium to LTC not by increasing its own difficulty, but by printing more coins and driving the price down:
  • the increased hashpower in ELC also increases coin generation rate quickly
  • the newly created coins drive the price down to the point where mining ELC is as profitable as LTC
  • ELC's price therefore will never rise consistently above P

Now let's assume there is no other altcoin like LTC. In that case any price increase of ELC will quickly be sold off by an increase in coin generation. ELC can never rise above the point where mining it is profitable.
Why would an investor buy ELC again? Sorry, I can't see it at all.
132  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: YAC - Proof of Stake? on: May 13, 2013, 04:53:49 PM
Have we heard anything about how the PoS is going to work for YAC?   I didn't see anything on the main site (yacoin.org).  Is there a whitepaper for this coin yet?

I had a very brief look and I believe it pays out 5% per coin-age.
I don't know enough about Proof-of-Stake, though. I fell asleep when I was in the middle of tracking down how/when a proof of stake block is generated... Cheesy
133  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: ★★ ▀▄▀▄▀ YACoin Now LIVE on BTER ▀▄▀▄▀ ★★ on: May 13, 2013, 08:25:14 AM
Here's hoping BTC-E implement, I was hoping for a 0.02-3 range in pricing, sub 0.001 is too low.

Agreed.   YAC/BTC belongs up there with NVC around 0.02 - 0.03

Never gonna happen. It's an experimental coin that belongs in the garbage.

I posted it in several other threads to raise awareness, but this post from Luke-Jr was pretty telling: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200170.msg2117745#msg2117745

I dumped my coins last night when the price rallied back up to .001 after reading that. If you think it isn't going to fall any lower at this point, good luck.

I posted a correction to Luke-Jr post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200170.msg2125796#msg2125796
He now says that he did not look at the right github branch?
134  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [YAC]: YaCoin Information Thread on: May 13, 2013, 08:21:55 AM
I was under the impression PPCoin's PoS was not really working yet, and that nobody else had done any development on it...

Update after reading some code:
  • Nfactor is only used for memory allocation size - so it has no actual effect on the implementation; in other words, N is not dynamic
  • The code is quite messy, and even something as simple as the memory allocator is broken (it pretty much ignores the size of the allocation request)

I think this one gets a "scamcoin" classification...

Luke-Jr, interesting comment. I had a brief go at the code as well, but can't confirm your findings. Maybe you were a bit quick shouting "scamcoin", eh?
  • Yes, the scrypt codebase is ugly. #define's and #ifdefs everywhere. Is this a copy of the original scrypt?
  • The scrypt romix code in scrypt-jane-romix-template.h (function called SCRYPT_ROMIX_FN) does use N (i.e. Nfactor) looping from 1 to N, in addition to increasing the mem size by N. I don't know enough about the underlying crypto, but I believe complexity scales at least by O(N2).
  • The allocate and free methods are totally fine. You have tripped over an #ifdef:
Code:
#if defined(SCRYPT_TEST_SPEED)
// jomay: I left out the test code - this is the one you've read.
// It works fine in practice as well, but makes the scrypt() function non re-entrant.
#else
// jomay: here goes the real deal - fully functional, no mem leak, fine.
static scrypt_aligned_alloc scrypt_alloc(uint64_t size) {
    static const size_t max_alloc = (size_t)-1;
    scrypt_aligned_alloc aa;
    size += (SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES - 1);
    if (size > max_alloc)
        scrypt_fatal_error("scrypt: not enough address space on this CPU to allocate required memory");
    aa.mem = (uint8_t *)malloc((size_t)size);
    aa.ptr = (uint8_t *)(((size_t)aa.mem + (SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES - 1)) & ~(SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES - 1));
    if (!aa.mem)
        scrypt_fatal_error("scrypt: out of memory");
    return aa;
}

static void scrypt_free(scrypt_aligned_alloc *aa) {
    free(aa->mem);
}
#endif
This isn't the code I saw (yacoin's github master branch).
Where did it come from?

YACoins scrypt-jane master branch: https://github.com/pocopoco/yacoin/blob/master/src/scrypt-jane/

scrypt_alloc is at lines 86-129. As clearly stated above, the posted code simply leaves out the SCRYPT_TEST_SPEED #ifdef branch: https://github.com/pocopoco/yacoin/blob/master/src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c

SCRYPT_ROMIX_FN is defined here: https://github.com/pocopoco/yacoin/blob/master/src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-template.h

Where did you look at?
135  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Forex broker plus500 has opened for Bitcoin trading. on: May 12, 2013, 11:33:19 PM
And they take the other side of the bet in case there is no other customer taking the opposite bet, correct?

Do they hedge against the market going the wrong way somehow if things become too unbalanced in their books?

I'd really like to know how such a shop works. Is it like satoshidice?

Last time I interviewed with one of the CFD brokers (which is a while back) they had human traders that would run a book. The trader would decide if the book should be rather long or short and profit from that.

In essence, they do the same thing as you guys trading bitcoins - but they try to make the 1% spread as well. They just need to "convince" people (by moving the price) to buy/sell them at the wrong time. The 20%/year financing fee is just the icing on top. Financing is usually free intraday...


You pay 113.79 and can sell at 112.76. I wonder how this is going to work out for them as most of the people I have talked to have bought through them, not going to be easy for them to keep a balanced book.

Ah, I was wondering how they manage to offer shorts on BTC. Now I know! Cheesy
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)

The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???
136  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] yacoin: yet another altcoin. START is now. on: May 12, 2013, 11:16:35 PM
Does luke-jr have a history as altcoin analyser? His post is very short...

He's a developer on Bitcoin. Granted, I'm not saying his claims are valid or anything. I simply posted it because it seemed to go overlooked earlier and thought it would be worth discussing among people that understand the source.
He's one from developers team. Also known as BTC fundamentalist. Roll Eyes

Few months ago he released patch for NVC client, in order to make chain fork starting from block #5500. We all know the results.

Even a genius can make a fool of himself, if he dedicated himself for irrational emotions.

So Luke-Jr engages in sabotage? Shocking!

I read pretty negative things about Luke-Jr before. It seems like there is a major feud between ckolivas (the original author of cgminer) kano and Luke-Jr. You might subsume that the latter did some forking/stealing of code without credits etc. See here, e.g.

In effect, Con has decided that CGMiner will become/live on (how long?) as a de facto hostile fork of BFGMiner (which has continuity of maintenance). I'm disappointed Con has chosen to severe cooperation between CGMiner and BFGMiner, but I hope to continue pulling as many improvements from CGMiner as possible

How can he even dare to claim that CGMiner is the hostile fork and pull as many improvements from CGMiner? He is even contradicting himself there!

I am not happy at all seeing all this greed, stealing, FUD-ing and scamming in this altcoin forum. But what should I expect if reputation is counted in number of posts... Wink


There's a YAC tip going your way, sir.
Thank you, Sir!
137  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] yacoin: yet another altcoin. START is now. on: May 12, 2013, 10:45:51 PM
Ofcourse thanks for posting it, now noticed he's a rather famous person here. Still think it seems he just quickly looked through it, which may be enough if his claim holds true.
Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.  Cheesy

Luke-Jr analysis was complete bollocks (edit: GB-english for bullshit). He did not even bother to look closely. I have disproved him here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200170.msg2125796#msg2125796
138  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [YAC]: YaCoin Information Thread on: May 12, 2013, 10:37:20 PM
I was under the impression PPCoin's PoS was not really working yet, and that nobody else had done any development on it...

Update after reading some code:
  • Nfactor is only used for memory allocation size - so it has no actual effect on the implementation; in other words, N is not dynamic
  • The code is quite messy, and even something as simple as the memory allocator is broken (it pretty much ignores the size of the allocation request)

I think this one gets a "scamcoin" classification...

Luke-Jr, interesting comment. I had a brief go at the code as well, but can't confirm your findings. Maybe you were a bit quick shouting "scamcoin", eh?
  • Yes, the scrypt codebase is ugly. #define's and #ifdefs everywhere. Is this a copy of the original scrypt?
  • The scrypt romix code in scrypt-jane-romix-template.h (function called SCRYPT_ROMIX_FN) does use N (i.e. Nfactor) looping from 1 to N, in addition to increasing the mem size by N. I don't know enough about the underlying crypto, but I believe complexity scales at least by O(N2).
  • The allocate and free methods are totally fine. You have tripped over an #ifdef:
Code:
#if defined(SCRYPT_TEST_SPEED)
// jomay: I left out the test code - this is the one you've read.
// It works fine in practice as well, but makes the scrypt() function non re-entrant.
#else
// jomay: here goes the real deal - fully functional, no mem leak, fine.
static scrypt_aligned_alloc scrypt_alloc(uint64_t size) {
    static const size_t max_alloc = (size_t)-1;
    scrypt_aligned_alloc aa;
    size += (SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES - 1);
    if (size > max_alloc)
        scrypt_fatal_error("scrypt: not enough address space on this CPU to allocate required memory");
    aa.mem = (uint8_t *)malloc((size_t)size);
    aa.ptr = (uint8_t *)(((size_t)aa.mem + (SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES - 1)) & ~(SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES - 1));
    if (!aa.mem)
        scrypt_fatal_error("scrypt: out of memory");
    return aa;
}

static void scrypt_free(scrypt_aligned_alloc *aa) {
    free(aa->mem);
}
#endif
[/li][/list]
139  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: ★★ ▀▄▀▄▀ YACoin Now LIVE on BTER ▀▄▀▄▀ ★★ on: May 11, 2013, 10:33:34 PM
Now you can see why hdclover did what he did earlier today, it's catalog example of inside knowledge. In real world police would knock on his door for that.
I just hope you are the police Smiley

In real world it would be classed as market abuse, which is even wider than insider knowledge. Wouldn't hdclover's behaviour qualify him for a SCAMMER tag?

He lied in the YAC FUD and on other occasions and tried to profit from it. Some people lost coin and therefore real money because of his actions. He is not reputable.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193109.msg2113807#msg2113807

I am proud that I was part of the people busting his rep. Are there any medals awarded for FUD-Busting?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202068.msg2111267#msg2111267

does it kinda like ben bernanke and george osborne

I don't like the central banks policy, but they don't go around spreading FUD and then trying to profit from it.

No matter what, I am disgusted by the amount of scamming, greed, lying and egoism here. This is one of the darkest corners on the internet I have observed so far. It makes me wonder whether I really want to spend my time with this.
140  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: ★★ ▀▄▀▄▀ YACoin Now LIVE on BTER ▀▄▀▄▀ ★★ on: May 11, 2013, 09:59:01 PM
Now you can see why hdclover did what he did earlier today, it's catalog example of inside knowledge. In real world police would knock on his door for that.
I just hope you are the police Smiley

In real world it would be classed as market abuse, which is even wider than insider knowledge. Wouldn't hdclover's behaviour qualify him for a SCAMMER tag?

He lied in the YAC FUD and on other occasions and tried to profit from it. Some people lost coin and therefore real money because of his actions. He is not reputable.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193109.msg2113807#msg2113807

I am proud that I was part of the people busting his rep. Are there any medals awarded for FUD-Busting?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202068.msg2111267#msg2111267
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