So why should I buy from the dev when I can buy at .00095 from the exchange instantly?
You should buy from the exchange at .00095 if it's available! |
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Yes, it's much better now: I see a 0 followed by other 8 zeros  Lol, 9 is better than 1, isn't it?  Whoops I see you what you mean, fixed. Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.
I don't understand it. Is this for the whole current week or only for the insanity sunday next weekend? And what's the timeframe for this, same as the last two weekends or a new timeframe like week 4? Insanity Sunday this weekend (9th) timeframe 18:00-23:59. |
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DEVELOPER UPDATEGame ChangeRepeating in case anybody missed it. Decision
I want to change this back over two weeks to how it was.
Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.
Week 4 - Supply End
The time will change from a fixed 6 hours, to me trading with the pot at any time whilst the supply is closed. 12:00 Sunday to 10:00 Monday.
Supply End - Week 9
Bump, at a random time each weekend, 100 BTC will buy up the book in a single order as high as it will go.
I've changed parameters based on feedback several times, it's made the game more boring, getting back to roots now
updateOnwards!This week is focussed on getting the website and information resources ready, along with defining the after-game block chain chain parameters.On the last insanity sunday a market determined value of wolf will be established, with cap etc, at that point the game is over and we need the coin to be stable at it's core for all holders and users. The current proposal is:- KGW or a slight modification of it
- removal of percentage based fee, replace with a traditional fixed 0.002 WOLF fee
- a block reward of 0.48 WOLF for weeks 9-26 (total of 17 weeks, this would produce 27417.6 WOLF, 1612.8 per week)
- a block reward of 0.24 WOLF for weeks 26-52 (this would produce 20966.4, 806.4 per week)
- a permanent block reward of 0.12 WOLF after week 52 (this would produce 20966.4 per year)
previous discussion starts around here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5448417#msg5448417Long TermNow that we are entering the mid-game, would now the time to enlighten us with your future plans?
It will make a big impact on peoples decision whether to continue playing every week.
If there is the risk that I can't get rid of my WOLF with profit on Sundays, I'd like to have a positive outlook on the future of the coin.
I'd love to enlighten you all, I have mentioned several things in previous posts on this thread. There are a number of features which will potentially be rolled out, in which order, or which ones make the cut remain to be seen. Generally, I'll be looking at migrating crypto currencies over to the web, first by boostrapping a number of key elements like the block chain, mining (in browser, perhaps as an alternative to the advert sponsored web), secure browser side web wallets & extensions, anonymous key pair authentication, distributed exchange, trade chains (like block chain but for exchange trades over different block chains), etc.. then there's the other side (wolf pack) which could cover anything from a decentralized whale (pack of traders voting on which trades to make acting as a whale, gamified), voting with currency and similar So that gives a rough idea, I've been prototyping and planning for a few years now, my choice came down to creating a monster all in one like vitalik has with ethereum, or doing things iteratively on a working coin, adding features naturally so people can see their utility (or non-utility). I felt there was a need for a trading game, or coin that wasn't held by miners, and one thing naturally led to another and this felt like a natural path for me to take. First though, comes the website and utilities on it to get measures on WOLF (coin supply, results, pot size, perhaps automated issuing of coins, etc), working on that this week. n.b. there is a proper test chain also to test features on. hope that helps. edit: please do bear with me, we're only 14 days in though, it's been huge so far, I've done 300 posts, 30+ pages of in depth discussion, even more pms, over 100 traders and investors, 300 BTC of business, organised trading events, planning, maintenance etc, it's growing exponentially fast, and taking up 20 hours a day at the minute. I'm doing my very best to ensure this goes well for all.Please reply/pm/email any feature requests you have for the website. The obvious such as information, updates, weekly results, pot sizes, coin supply, general information, will of course be handled. WOLF Supply is open again, same address as last week, ann updating now.
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So I presume all the coins are given out when the BTC is received, not held over like the pot?
Correct. I never expect it to be easy, I just expected there to be more of a game, more action. It is called Insanitycoin after all. This week it was Wetpaperbagcoin, the market got a little fluid and the bottom fell out pretty quickly. I'm picking up my groceries off the floor  Couldn't agree more, hence changing the dynamics a bit to give us scope to have a few hours of fun on market  new (big) week tomorrow, must sleep! |
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This experiment depends on two things,
1) Faith in the dev (both personal trust and future development of the coin)
2) The ability to make money from it
I would imagine most of the coin buying currently is because of 2). People are selling below 0.001 not just for liquidity reasons, it's because if the current trend continues, short term returns will decrease even further as bagholders from week 1 & week 2 compete with sellers from week 3 for the dev buyback, suggesting we won't see the price much over 0.00115 next week, and by week 5 or 6 the dev may struggle to convince people to invest at all.
Although I still have a little faith in this, this week's rule changes, the dev's protestations of 'why are people setting their sells so low?' without any plan to raise the price much, the 'accidental' early start, have all made this experiment look more like a sucker trap
Fair comments. Everybody involved is a trader or investor, I'm quite sure it's obvious that the total BTC in the pot is exactly enough to buy back all WOLF at the price paid, if nobody holds. If even one person holds, and everybody else sells, then there is enough for everybody to make a slight profit. The more that hold, the more profit for those that sell in the short term. The more that sell in the short term, the more wolf that's destroyed, and each holder has a higher percentage of the entire wolf supply. Factor in the people who are selling to acquire more wolf, and you have even more being destroyed, with some acquiring higher percentages of the wolf supply. Last week, the first week where the BTC pot filled and went in to the next one, was always going to make it more competitive. I have a feeling some people thought they could lazy trade in to guaranteed profit, buy coin, place order to get 80% profit, get 80% profit. We are in a situation where two things can happen now: - People stop buying WOLF - consider nobody else buys all week, there is 100 BTC in the pot for next week already, the results will be more like week one with 80% average profit
- People keep buying WOLF - more BTC pots fill, and we get closer to the point where the supply is empty, with weekly 100 BTC bumps, short term profit is lower, mid term profit is higher
So, if you all stop buying, those with WOLF for next week already make more profit than this week. If you keep buying you bring it closer to the point where holders start to benefit, and the short termers still make a profit in BTC or WOLF depending how greedy you get. Honestly though, which of you thought that your fellow informed traders would let you double your bitcoin so easily? You can't magic money out of thin air, if you all want to get BTC profit each week, you're going to have a bad time, if you all want to sell every wolf acquired, the BEST you can collectively do each week is to get exactly the price you paid, or a marginal profit. To bring it back to reality though, I'm hearing complaints from people that "we only made 80% profit last week, 40% this week, and might only make 15% next week". Warren Buffet one of the worlds best, made an average of 21.5% over his years. On the other side, anybody holding now has 10% more of the WOLF supply. Remember it's a weekly 100 BTC limit, if 200 BTC is sold in one week, it might be an idea to wait till the next week to sell some if you want more profit or maybe only sell a percentage of your holdings, or even wait for three weeks later. But if you all race for the same BTC in a week, then of course all your doing is giving profit to the people who are playing in subsequent weeks, and making less yourself in that 7 day period. Again, people have different strategies, some single week hit and hopers, some multi week short term, some long term, some split holdings over different strategies to mitigate risk, some exploit others and push them lower, some don't think but react, and some just wonder why they didn't get free money. Just want to make sure you caught: Decision
I want to change this back over two weeks to how it was.
Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.
Week 4 - Supply End
The time will change from a fixed 6 hours, to me trading with the pot at any time whilst the supply is closed. 12:00 Sunday to 10:00 Monday.
Supply End - Week 9
Bump, at a random time each weekend, 100 BTC will buy up the book in a single order as high as it will go.
I've changed parameters based on feedback several times, it's made the game more boring, getting back to roots now
updateAll WOLF acquired today has been destroyed see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5467732#msg5467732 |
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instead of buying from the dev 490 coins (0.49 btc) i bought from poloniex 502 coins, @ 0.00098.
i see these implications:
- less coin being destroyed
- people bailing out.
- less btc for the pot.
question: what do sellers @0.0009 know and i don't know or should know?
As i'd said before, "I'm expecting the price to go low as .0009 as people will sell for a small loss and recoup it trading during the week before buying wolf again ready for next Sunday. It would make no sense leaving the sell orders up all week as it's 'dead money', when you could be using it as working capital to make money." Yes, this coin is held entirely by traders and investors. People actively investing and holding, people actively trading, will probably all make profit (and have already). Those hoping for a quick get rich quick approach of laying an order and expecting it to fill, have probably underestimated their fellow traders. To be clear, there are 100+ traders, I expect most are good. The_One makes a fair point, it's 'dead money' to just have an order (wall) sitting. If you want to hold over a few weeks, do it quietly, let the price rise instead of adding weight to the orderbook, if you want your orders to fill each week, actively out trade your fellow traders. Finally, a fair question is also: what do buyers (not just sellers) @0.0009 know and i don't know or should know? - it works both ways. Ultimately though with this coin, for a few weeks at least, you all know just as much as each other. |
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..mining..
You can mine to support the network, but no reward will kick in until after the 9 weeks. It is a legit blockchain though, just setup your daemon or qt as normal, set rpc port, and get scrypt mining. Now that our second Insanity Sunday is over, I have a question regarding the big investors.
You mentioned they would be holders and obviously they wouldn't just invest out of goodwill.
So, you must have told them something about your future plan, something besides the basics that you mentioned earlier.
Indeed, total large investment secured is 100 BTC / 100k WOLF over a few weeks, with some others who know me personally holding smaller amounts for the longer term as well. These people have seen my prototypes for features over the past few years, and their investment can be seen as a vote of confidence in me personally I guess. Now that we are entering the mid-game, would now the time to enlighten us with your future plans?
It will make a big impact on peoples decision whether to continue playing every week.
If there is the risk that I can't get rid of my WOLF with profit on Sundays, I'd like to have a positive outlook on the future of the coin.
I'd love to enlighten you all, I have mentioned several things in previous posts on this thread. There are a number of features which will potentially be rolled out, in which order, or which ones make the cut remain to be seen. Generally, I'll be looking at migrating crypto currencies over to the web, first by boostrapping a number of key elements like the block chain, mining (in browser, perhaps as an alternative to the advert sponsored web), secure browser side web wallets & extensions, anonymous key pair authentication, distributed exchange, trade chains (like block chain but for exchange trades over different block chains), etc.. then there's the other side (wolf pack) which could cover anything from a decentralized whale (pack of traders voting on which trades to make acting as a whale, gamified), voting with currency and similar So that gives a rough idea, I've been prototyping and planning for a few years now, my choice came down to creating a monster all in one like vitalik has with ethereum, or doing things iteratively on a working coin, adding features naturally so people can see their utility (or non-utility). I felt there was a need for a trading game, or coin that wasn't held by miners, and one thing naturally led to another and this felt like a natural path for me to take. First though, comes the website and utilities on it to get measures on WOLF (coin supply, results, pot size, perhaps automated issuing of coins, etc), working on that this week. n.b. there is a proper test chain also to test features on. hope that helps. edit: please do bear with me, we're only 14 days in though, it's been huge so far, I've done 300 posts, 30+ pages of in depth discussion, even more pms, over 100 traders and investors, 300 BTC of business, organised trading events, planning, maintenance etc, it's growing exponentially fast, and taking up 20 hours a day at the minute. I'm doing my very best to ensure this goes well for all. |
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The thing is, nobody knows for sure. A blockchain ledger that isn't being mined currently can be faked easily. As of now there's not enough to claim it as a fraud and inversely there isn't enough evidence to claim it as not a fraud. So people can speculate. I do think it's an exciting game, a great experiment (does rarity make something valuable or does it have to have a use too?), and something that's never been done before. Will people want WOLF after 4 weeks, 9 weeks, forever? Place your bets now . I'm just going to watch the boxing match haha. It is being mined, and the more that mine it the better. For now I'm paying for mining rig contracts out of my own pocket, with a larger amount set aside in case we need a big ramp up on hashing. Please also see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5438847#msg5438847 & https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5449872#msg5449872 a discussion we really need to finish soon. Also very interested to see the 10-24 week valuation, I guess I judge the project based on my own intentions, others just have to watch and judge based on (my) actions. |
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Trade WOLF now on PMtocoinsWe take only 3 confirmations unknown / new exchange - use caution (doesn't mean it's bad, just not reviewed)A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme.
Please do read the ANN properly. This is purely a gamified distribution phase, were everybody knows that each wolf in circulation was acquired for a set base price, nobody gets in cheaper, nobody has premined, no big holders who got in cheap as timebombs waiting to dump, and so forth. There is zero promise of profit, every single bitcoin brought in goes straight back in to the market. That is to say, every detail is made clear, and every action fully transparent and verifiable. Feel free to verify, multiple people already have, many originally sceptical. However, I do believe you have some valid points "everything is good for this coin" can be misconstrued easily, one person selling cheap benefits somebody holding longer, somebody holding longer benefits somebody selling cheap and fast. Would you be prepared to help me tweak the text so it's clearer? It would be much appreciated. |
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It tells you that everyone who just sold made 30 to 40% in one week.... With a guarantee that they can buy it all back and more for the next day at .001... This coin will obviously not move like a normal coin until week 10
n.b. until coin supply has ran out |
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Imagine you were to bet on a horse for the Grand National, you didn't have TV or radio and stuck watching the odds moving up and down, would you call that exciting or would you rather watch it on TV. Staring at Poloniex was boring. The dev could drop teasers, hints, threats, etc in the trollbox which would keep us captivated.
Consider it done that's more like it, although not many of us are active traders!
maybe i missed it, but you did change Insanity Sunday rules between OP and today? I guess i missed it
PS. I just bought wolf @ 0.0009899.
yes - especially (a) fixed time, and (b) no sell orders... both based on feedback/requests from The_One |
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Decision
I want to change this back over two weeks to how it was.
Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.
Week 4 - Supply End
The time will change from a fixed 6 hours, to me trading with the pot at any time whilst the supply is closed. 12:00 Sunday to 10:00 Monday.
Supply End - Week 9
Bump, at a random time each weekend, 100 BTC will buy up the book in a single order as high as it will go.
I've changed parameters based on feedback several times, it's made the game more boring, getting back to roots now
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Was watching the whole thing. Wasn't much fun really. Huge buy in one or 2 goes by the look of it.
I would have used 10 BTC for each hour from 6pm to 10 pm. i would have used the troll box to sort of tease the buyers and sellers. I.E "no buying of wolf until all the coins below .0013 are removed." - it would make sellers think, is it a bluff, stay or move?? Something to inject some excitement in the 'game'.
Agree, next week perhaps. In retrospect, boring. again, main reason is the strict timing of the Dev buy.
Because he has given so very precise indication (day, hour, time) everyone is ready to exit then.
if he would have bought the coin on a more uncertain schedule, price, on average, on go significantly higher, much closer to what everyone believes to be the correct value. in this case, weak hands will remove themselves.
PS: when my sell order went through it was very fun, so "disagree". D.
Agree, ask the quoted man above you why we have a fixed time. It started that I could just buy whenever as a surprise. |
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If there are less coins - rarer - should price go up, assuming there is demand?
Problem is that as there are less coins, buying at .001 should go up every week according to the percentage of coins destroyed.
Tipping point for the coin is the week when supply is gone, then we just have a circa 500k coin economy which has a 100 BTC injection each week, for x weeks. We are on target to hit that point fast, thanks to supply far outweighing demand (2x+), and weak hands (or maybe they are just growing wolf holdings!) |
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One comment this week, about whale handling: If somebody is buying a large amount of x-coin, and they put up a sell wall, it is painfully obvious that they are just trying to get your coins off you cheaper. If I put up a sell wall, when you know I must buy as a fact, why would you move underneath it? Weak hands. next weeks pot is full, primarily from an investor who is holding way past 9 weeks, week 4 pot is starting to fill results from week 2: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5467732#msg5467732supply reopens at 10:00 UTC monday re-opening discussion on long term block chain parameters tomorrow, please comment: proposal and last post discussing. |
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Insanity Sunday - Week 2 ResultsSummary- Total Pot: 100 BTC
- Total Acquired: 75185.33554462 WOLF
- Percentage Acquired Back: 75.185% of WOLF sold.
- Average Price: 32.74% over base (0.00132739 BTC)
- Maximum Price: 43.7% over base (0.001437 BTC)
- Minimum Price: 10% over base (0.0011 BTC)
- Trade List: http://5.9.111.71/results/w2/trades.csv
Coin DestructionTotal to Destroy: 75185.33554462 WOLF I'd like to thank everybody who took part in the second Insanity Sunday. Coin Supply opens at 10:00 UTC tomorrow for week three
BTC Pot for week 3 already full, on to week 4 now I will always post as soon as I'm finished buying, keeps things fair, don't expect it so early every week thoughremember things get very interesting when coin supply runs out, as no price reset or supply
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cancel those stupidly low orders!
too late: 75,185.33554462 WOLF acquired [done] starting to become very clear how whales make money |
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Can everyone set their sells higher please? Thanks :-)
don't listen to him, stupid idea, go lower, go to 0.00002! |
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Lol yes, slight inconvenience, as I said earlier: ... it's traffic has quadrupled, it's features have grown, and it's been under a DDoS attack, but still there and being worked on ...
Let's give him some time to adapt and upgrade, if we want a solid alternative exchange we need to support these people who are trying hard to offer us one, Tristan has already proven he's dedicated, skilled, and trustworthy.
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'Neutral' being you can not take part in the 'game'. You knew what i meant.
Thanks for clarifying. I do not take part in the game, I wisely or unwisely assume that I already hold (to be) 1% of multi million dollar crypto currency, I'm happy being that 1%, and increasing it's value through hard work. now, I must finish preparing a plan for today, I have a pack waiting. |
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