[ANN][WOLF] Project WOLF

[kimosan]

I've changed parameters based on feedback several times, it's made the game more boring, getting back to roots now

Excellent decision.

[1715268747]

1715268747

[1715268747]

1715268747

[1715268747]

1715268747

[1715268747]

1715268747

[Shahrukh]

Trade WOLF now on PMtocoinsWe take only 3 confirmations

[WaffleMaster]

Quote from front of announcement page by Dev

"Quite the opposite.

If all coins are bought (900BTC), the transferred once (say to an exchange), then there will be 818,181 coins left. Worth 900 BTC minimum, that's if every coin is sold back at (market cap / supply) price, and nobody buys any coins on market, and no coin is transferred more than once, and if no coins are put up for sale at all in a 9 week period. If any one of those things does happen, the price and market cap will go up.

Ultimately, every trader has a different strategy, some sell on market immediately for 25% more than they bought, some may be more aggressive and sell 10% for 400% more than they paid. Some may sell off market and destroy more coins by transferring ownership. Some may hold for 4 weeks, or 12 weeks, or a year.

The biggest gamble, is how many to put to market, on which week, to make the most profit.. or whether to hold and let it rise trying to make 1000% of percent.

Usually coins have a supply, and if supply outweighs demand, price goes down. InsanityCoin is different because the money supply always reduces, forcing the price of each coin upwards, while ever people buy and transfer it, the value of each coin can only go up.

Everything is good for this coin, including people not buying it, because any coins not bought over the 9 weeks are destroyed."

I don't plan on buying any of these "Everything is good for it" coin that can never drop in price. I just think it's important for people to know certain things and schemes that go on behind the scenes. Like I said good luck, hope no one loses in this "game". He IS PROMISING the coin will ONLY GO UP.

[luigi1111]

It tells you that everyone who just sold made 30 to 40% in one week.... With a guarantee that they can buy it all back and more for the next day at .001... This coin will obviously not move like a normal coin until week 10

n.b. until coin supply has ran out

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme.

And that definition does not directly fit WOLF. WOLF is not paying "returns" to its "investors"; rather it's spending the "existing capital or new capital" to repurchase sold WOLF. It's NOT the same thing at all. It's kinda like a company having a share offering to raise capital, and then repurchasing said shares with received capital. While strange, it's not exactly fraudulent, and also when netted out shouldn't have any real effect. This WOLF plan ultimately might be an exercise in futility, though it does provide some insight into the way humans/markets think and operate.

[The One]

Trade WOLF now on PMtocoinsWe take only 3 confirmations

Rubbish exchange

[luigi1111]

Quote from front of announcement page by Dev

"Quite the opposite.

If all coins are bought (900BTC), the transferred once (say to an exchange), then there will be 818,181 coins left. Worth 900 BTC minimum, that's if every coin is sold back at (market cap / supply) price, and nobody buys any coins on market, and no coin is transferred more than once, and if no coins are put up for sale at all in a 9 week period. If any one of those things does happen, the price and market cap will go up.

Ultimately, every trader has a different strategy, some sell on market immediately for 25% more than they bought, some may be more aggressive and sell 10% for 400% more than they paid. Some may sell off market and destroy more coins by transferring ownership. Some may hold for 4 weeks, or 12 weeks, or a year.

The biggest gamble, is how many to put to market, on which week, to make the most profit.. or whether to hold and let it rise trying to make 1000% of percent.

Usually coins have a supply, and if supply outweighs demand, price goes down. InsanityCoin is different because the money supply always reduces, forcing the price of each coin upwards, while ever people buy and transfer it, the value of each coin can only go up.

Everything is good for this coin, including people not buying it, because any coins not bought over the 9 weeks are destroyed."

I don't plan on buying any of these "Everything is good for it" coin that can never drop in price. I just think it's important for people to know certain things and schemes that go on behind the scenes. Like I said good luck, hope no one loses in this "game".

Everything might be "good" for this coin, but that doesn't dictate what will happen after nine weeks at all. After the bumps are over (indeed, after supply runs out, which could be much sooner), anything can happen. There WILL be bagholders. What is unknown is when that will be (only exception would be WOLF for some strange reason(s) gains adoption and stays stead/rises after the game is over).

[ap3311]

Wow, what an anticlimax after last week.

Guess I'll be cashing out now.

[InsanityDev]

Trade WOLF now on PMtocoinsWe take only 3 confirmations

unknown / new exchange - use caution (doesn't mean it's bad, just not reviewed)

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme.

Please do read the ANN properly. This is purely a gamified distribution phase, were everybody knows that each wolf in circulation was acquired for a set base price, nobody gets in cheaper, nobody has premined, no big holders who got in cheap as timebombs waiting to dump, and so forth.

There is zero promise of profit, every single bitcoin brought in goes straight back in to the market. That is to say, every detail is made clear, and every action fully transparent and verifiable. Feel free to verify, multiple people already have, many originally sceptical.

However, I do believe you have some valid points "everything is good for this coin" can be misconstrued easily, one person selling cheap benefits somebody holding longer, somebody holding longer benefits somebody selling cheap and fast.

Would you be prepared to help me tweak the text so it's clearer? It would be much appreciated.

[mmihai1978]

instead of buying from the dev 490 coins (0.49 btc) i bought from poloniex 502 coins, @ 0.00098.

i see these implications:
- less coin being destroyed
- people bailing out.
- less btc for the pot.

question: what do sellers @0.0009 know and i don't know or should know?

[WaffleMaster]

The thing is, nobody knows for sure. A blockchain ledger that isn't being mined currently can be faked easily. As of now there's not enough to claim it as a fraud and inversely there isn't enough evidence to claim it as not a fraud. So people can speculate. I do think it's an exciting game, a great experiment (does rarity make something valuable or does it have to have a use too?), and something that's never been done before. Will people want WOLF after 4 weeks, 9 weeks, forever? Place your bets now . I'm just going to watch the boxing match haha.

[BlackMarket]

wolf maybe will like aurora if the dev make innovation about this coin 

[InsanityDev]

The thing is, nobody knows for sure. A blockchain ledger that isn't being mined currently can be faked easily. As of now there's not enough to claim it as a fraud and inversely there isn't enough evidence to claim it as not a fraud. So people can speculate. I do think it's an exciting game, a great experiment (does rarity make something valuable or does it have to have a use too?), and something that's never been done before. Will people want WOLF after 4 weeks, 9 weeks, forever? Place your bets now . I'm just going to watch the boxing match haha.

It is being mined, and the more that mine it the better. For now I'm paying for mining rig contracts out of my own pocket, with a larger amount set aside in case we need a big ramp up on hashing.

Please also see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5438847#msg5438847 & https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5449872#msg5449872 a discussion we really need to finish soon.

Also very interested to see the 10-24 week valuation, I guess I judge the project based on my own intentions, others just have to watch and judge based on (my) actions.

[capsized]

Now that our second Insanity Sunday is over, I have a question regarding the big investors.
You mentioned they would be holders and obviously they wouldn't just invest out of goodwill.

So, you must have told them something about your future plan, something besides the basics that you mentioned earlier.
Now that we are entering the mid-game, would now the time to enlighten us with your future plans?

It will make a big impact on peoples decision whether to continue playing every week.
If there is the risk that I can't get rid of my WOLF with profit on Sundays, I'd like to have a positive outlook on the future of the coin.

[WaffleMaster]

The thing is, nobody knows for sure. A blockchain ledger that isn't being mined currently can be faked easily. As of now there's not enough to claim it as a fraud and inversely there isn't enough evidence to claim it as not a fraud. So people can speculate. I do think it's an exciting game, a great experiment (does rarity make something valuable or does it have to have a use too?), and something that's never been done before. Will people want WOLF after 4 weeks, 9 weeks, forever? Place your bets now . I'm just going to watch the boxing match haha.

It is being mined, and the more that mine it the better. For now I'm paying for mining rig contracts out of my own pocket, with a larger amount set aside in case we need a big ramp up on hashing.

Please also see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5438847#msg5438847 & https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5449872#msg5449872 a discussion we really need to finish soon.

Also very interested to see the 10-24 week valuation, I guess I judge the project based on my own intentions, others just have to watch and judge based on (my) actions.

I would love to mine this coin depending on the stats of the network etc. and I understand you now from reading those other posts. The 9 week game is a hype launch. A great way to start the price out at a decent level too. I'm guessing mining isn't public until the game ends or what? The details are quite fuzzy, I thought this was literally a coin that never got produced anymore (odd but cryptos can do a lot of crazy things!). That's the impression that the first page puts off to people.

[InsanityDev]

..mining..

You can mine to support the network, but no reward will kick in until after the 9 weeks. It is a legit blockchain though, just setup your daemon or qt as normal, set rpc port, and get scrypt mining.

Now that our second Insanity Sunday is over, I have a question regarding the big investors.
You mentioned they would be holders and obviously they wouldn't just invest out of goodwill.

So, you must have told them something about your future plan, something besides the basics that you mentioned earlier.

Indeed, total large investment secured is 100 BTC / 100k WOLF over a few weeks, with some others who know me personally holding smaller amounts for the longer term as well.

These people have seen my prototypes for features over the past few years, and their investment can be seen as a vote of confidence in me personally I guess.

Now that we are entering the mid-game, would now the time to enlighten us with your future plans?

It will make a big impact on peoples decision whether to continue playing every week.
If there is the risk that I can't get rid of my WOLF with profit on Sundays, I'd like to have a positive outlook on the future of the coin.

I'd love to enlighten you all, I have mentioned several things in previous posts on this thread. There are a number of features which will potentially be rolled out, in which order, or which ones make the cut remain to be seen.

Generally, I'll be looking at migrating crypto currencies over to the web, first by boostrapping a number of key elements like the block chain, mining (in browser, perhaps as an alternative to the advert sponsored web), secure browser side web wallets & extensions, anonymous key pair authentication, distributed exchange, trade chains (like block chain but for exchange trades over different block chains), etc.. then there's the other side (wolf pack) which could cover anything from a decentralized whale (pack of traders voting on which trades to make acting as a whale, gamified), voting with currency and similar

So that gives a rough idea, I've been prototyping and planning for a few years now, my choice came down to creating a monster all in one like vitalik has with ethereum, or doing things iteratively on a working coin, adding features naturally so people can see their utility (or non-utility). I felt there was a need for a trading game, or coin that wasn't held by miners, and one thing naturally led to another and this felt like a natural path for me to take.

First though, comes the website and utilities on it to get measures on WOLF (coin supply, results, pot size, perhaps automated issuing of coins, etc), working on that this week.

n.b. there is a proper test chain also to test features on.

hope that helps.

edit: please do bear with me, we're only 14 days in though, it's been huge so far, I've done 300 posts,  30+ pages of in depth discussion, even more pms, over 100 traders and investors, 300 BTC of business, organised trading events, planning, maintenance etc, it's growing exponentially fast, and taking up 20 hours a day at the minute. I'm doing my very best to ensure this goes well for all.

[BlackMarket]

keep spirit dev 
can you add in ANN how much coin left available to buy at 0.001?

[The One]

instead of buying from the dev 490 coins (0.49 btc) i bought from poloniex 502 coins, @ 0.00098.

i see these implications:
- less coin being destroyed
- people bailing out.
- less btc for the pot.

question: what do sellers @0.0009 know and i don't know or should know?

As i'd said before, "I'm expecting the price to go low as .0009 as people will sell for a small loss and recoup it trading during the week before buying wolf again ready for next Sunday. It would make no sense leaving the sell orders up all week as it's 'dead money', when you could be using it as working capital to make money."

[InsanityDev]

instead of buying from the dev 490 coins (0.49 btc) i bought from poloniex 502 coins, @ 0.00098.

i see these implications:
- less coin being destroyed
- people bailing out.
- less btc for the pot.

question: what do sellers @0.0009 know and i don't know or should know?

As i'd said before, "I'm expecting the price to go low as .0009 as people will sell for a small loss and recoup it trading during the week before buying wolf again ready for next Sunday. It would make no sense leaving the sell orders up all week as it's 'dead money', when you could be using it as working capital to make money."

Yes, this coin is held entirely by traders and investors. People actively investing and holding, people actively trading, will probably all make profit (and have already). Those hoping for a quick get rich quick approach of laying an order and expecting it to fill, have probably underestimated their fellow traders.

To be clear, there are 100+ traders, I expect most are good.

The_One makes a fair point, it's 'dead money' to just have an order (wall) sitting. If you want to hold over a few weeks, do it quietly, let the price rise instead of adding weight to the orderbook, if you want your orders to fill each week, actively out trade your fellow traders.

Finally, a fair question is also: what do buyers (not just sellers) @0.0009 know and i don't know or should know? - it works both ways. Ultimately though with this coin, for a few weeks at least, you all know just as much as each other.

[m0rf3u5]

This experiment depends on two things,

1) Faith in the dev (both personal trust and future development of the coin)
2) The ability to make money from it

I would imagine most of the coin buying currently is because of 2). People are selling below 0.001 not just for liquidity reasons, it's because if the current trend continues, short term returns will decrease even further as bagholders from week 1 & week 2 compete with sellers from week 3 for the dev buyback, suggesting we won't see the price much over 0.00115 next week, and by week 5 or 6 the dev may struggle to convince people to invest at all.

Although I still have a little faith in this, this week's rule changes, the dev's protestations of 'why are people setting their sells so low?' without any plan to raise the price much, the 'accidental' early start, have all made this experiment look more like a sucker trap

The development of the project needs to accelerate as quickly as the injection of money, to increase demand. Otherwise any long term price projection based purely on supply, along with the coin itself, will fail.

[InsanityDev]

This experiment depends on two things,

1) Faith in the dev (both personal trust and future development of the coin)
2) The ability to make money from it

I would imagine most of the coin buying currently is because of 2). People are selling below 0.001 not just for liquidity reasons, it's because if the current trend continues, short term returns will decrease even further as bagholders from week 1 & week 2 compete with sellers from week 3 for the dev buyback, suggesting we won't see the price much over 0.00115 next week, and by week 5 or 6 the dev may struggle to convince people to invest at all.

Although I still have a little faith in this, this week's rule changes, the dev's protestations of 'why are people setting their sells so low?' without any plan to raise the price much, the 'accidental' early start, have all made this experiment look more like a sucker trap

Fair comments.

Everybody involved is a trader or investor, I'm quite sure it's obvious that the total BTC in the pot is exactly enough to buy back all WOLF at the price paid, if nobody holds. If even one person holds, and everybody else sells, then there is enough for everybody to make a slight profit. The more that hold, the more profit for those that sell in the short term. The more that sell in the short term, the more wolf that's destroyed, and each holder has a higher percentage of the entire wolf supply. Factor in the people who are selling to acquire more wolf, and you have even more being destroyed, with some acquiring higher percentages of the wolf supply.

Last week, the first week where the BTC pot filled and went in to the next one, was always going to make it more competitive. I have a feeling some people thought they could lazy trade in to guaranteed profit, buy coin, place order to get 80% profit, get 80% profit.

We are in a situation where two things can happen now:

• People stop buying WOLF - consider nobody else buys all week, there is 100 BTC in the pot for next week already, the results will be more like week one with 80% average profit
• People keep buying WOLF - more BTC pots fill, and we get closer to the point where the supply is empty, with weekly 100 BTC bumps, short term profit is lower, mid term profit is higher

So, if you all stop buying, those with WOLF for next week already make more profit than this week. If you keep buying you bring it closer to the point where holders start to benefit, and the short termers still make a profit in BTC or WOLF depending how greedy you get.

Honestly though, which of you thought that your fellow informed traders would let you double your bitcoin so easily? You can't magic money out of thin air, if you all want to get BTC profit each week, you're going to have a bad time, if you all want to sell every wolf acquired, the BEST you can collectively do each week is to get exactly the price you paid, or a marginal profit.

To bring it back to reality though, I'm hearing complaints from people that "we only made 80% profit last week, 40% this week, and might only make 15% next week". Warren Buffet one of the worlds best, made an average of 21.5% over his years.

On the other side, anybody holding now has 10% more of the WOLF supply.

Remember it's a weekly 100 BTC limit, if 200 BTC is sold in one week, it might be an idea to wait till the next week to sell some if you want more profit or maybe only sell a percentage of your holdings, or even wait for three weeks later. But if you all race for the same BTC in a week, then of course all your doing is giving profit to the people who are playing in subsequent weeks, and making less yourself in that 7 day period.

Again, people have different strategies, some single week hit and hopers, some multi week short term, some long term, some split holdings over different strategies to mitigate risk, some exploit others and push them lower, some don't think but react, and some just wonder why they didn't get free money.

Just want to make sure you caught:

Decision
I want to change this back over two weeks to how it was.

Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.

Week 4 - Supply End
The time will change from a fixed 6 hours, to me trading with the pot at any time whilst the supply is closed. 12:00 Sunday to 10:00 Monday.

Supply End - Week 9
Bump, at a random time each weekend, 100 BTC will buy up the book in a single order as high as it will go.

I've changed parameters based on feedback several times, it's made the game more boring, getting back to roots now

update
All WOLF acquired today has been destroyed see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5467732#msg5467732