[pirate, psy, clipse, miscreanity, PatrickHarnett, imsaguy, BurtW] on the street corner or back alley:  I'm sorry. That last post was really unfair to the guy selling watches. He has a clear business model. |
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I think we have some new information. [pirate, psy, clipse, miscreanity, PatrickHarnett, imsaguy, BurtW] on the street corner or back alley: . . . . |
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refuses to reveal their business model
This is too subjective. Some would say that even BS&T has revealed its business model sufficiently. Not by the standards of actual investors. The "revelations" do not stand up scrutiny placed on a prospectus. You have to draw the line somewhere. Of all the things one could argu about, this issue is actually quite well-defined. Those "some" that say that are pass-through operators and various anonymous shills. There is just not enough there to bear scrutiny. |
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I'd like to know what the 'scam subforum' is. Could you please clarify? If you're implying that all long term investment opportunities are scams, then you need to start a new thread about that.
In this very thread, the decision was made to create a subforum for the express purpose of housing several ponzi schemes. The subforum was given a misnomer; Ponzi schemes are not long term nor are they investments. You can call it whatever you want. I prefer clear and simple language. |
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In summary: Traditionally, HYIP are edge cases. If many businesses are getting 1%, then 1% isn't edge case and therefore, not HYIP.
Translation: this forum is filled to the brim with scams (euphamistically referred to as "HYIP") that I'll redefine as "businesses," and the sheer number of scams here somehow makes them OK. |
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Hey, congratulations, you got your wish. Now, can you lock the thread?
Why? Have these various ponzi schemes ended? If anything, this thread should be stickied right at the top of each "investment"-oriented forum. |
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Maybe a renaming instead.
Whatever for? Their ponzi subforum (which almost by definition has nothing at all to do with "long term" anything) remains under "Lending". The title is still accurate, the thread is within the proper subforum, and its intended audience is here. The organizational changes are real, but marginal. |
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What a surprise. The scam-artists want to get the expose as far away from their promotional material as possible.
Keep in mind that the scam subforum (I fail to see how a ponzi scheme qualifies as "long-term") remains under the legitimate heading "Lending."
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Your last remark convinces me that you're not the naive defender I initially took you for; you seem to be complicit in the fraud.
Yes, in a sense I am "complicit" in some of the investments listed - shock of shocks: I'm invested in a few of them. Straight from the horse's ass. Interesting emphasis on " invested". Why? Because the risk/reward is not dictated by baseless accusations from short-sighted individuals whom have demonstrated their inability and/or unwillingness to explore alternative possibilities that are fully viable in the unregulated Bitcoin environment.
 Like in an alternative reality where 3000% returns are "fully viable" |
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[tide of raw sewage]
Tide's coming back in... you can almost set your watch by the sets of comments. |
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Stephen Gornick, you are correct on all points. Given the likely fallout, it is certainly possible that this recent scourge of ponzi schemes is a deliberate and concerted effort to undermine bitcoin. On a related note, I think these questions are worth cross-posting: Theymos and other admins/moderators/etc.,
In the interest of transparency and since you are de facto gatekeepers here, would you each care to describe your individual positions on profiting from (via ads) and facilitating the promotion of manifest frauds?
Are you comfortable accepting responsibility for your roles and will you accept the blame for providing a venue for con-artists and not taking due diligence in protecting bitcoin newcomers? Will you be pleased to explain your current choices, actions, and non-actions once this superstructure of fraud collapses?
Finally, do you believe that your current choices, actions, and non-actions will help or hurt bitcoin in the long-term? Please justify your response.
Given the facts of the currently unfolding situation, these questions seem quite reasonable and are salient to the stakeholders in the bitcoin community.
I should also note that your actions to date imply much about the above, but your individual responses or non-responses may be illuminating, nonetheless.
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Theymos and other admins/moderators/etc.,
In the interest of transparency and since you are de facto gatekeepers here, would you each care to describe your individual positions on profiting from (via ads) and facilitating the promotion of manifest frauds?
Are you comfortable accepting responsibility for your roles and will you accept the blame for providing a venue for con-artists and not taking due diligence in protecting bitcoin newcomers? Will you be pleased to explain your current choices, actions, and non-actions once this superstructure of fraud collapses?
Finally, do you believe that your current choices, actions, and non-actions will help or hurt bitcoin in the long-term? Please justify your response.
Given the facts of the currently unfolding situation, these questions seem quite reasonable and are salient to the stakeholders in the bitcoin community.
I should also note that your actions to date imply much about the above, but your individual responses or non-responses may be illuminating, nonetheless.
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If we adhere to elementary ethical standards, then the answer is straightforward.
Stickies should be reserved for warnings against fraud rather than free advertisement for fraudsters.
I'm not holding my breath, though. I see that the forum sells ad space to ponzi schemes on this very page. Based on the best available information, this place is knowingly facilitating fraud.
Keep in mind that legally, intent can be established from predictable consequences.
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by the way if anyone asks, i deleted all my posts out of the retard thread.
don't want that one popping up in my "show new replies" list any more.
it's a bit rough on the emotions, having people post outright lies about you and then have their sheep believe it as factual,
so i'm gonna try not to spend 12 hours a day on the forum any more.
...will check in once a day to support bitcoin max.
Hey there. Nice cross -- it certainly suits you. But I suspect that you won't need to crucify yourself for much longer. |
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Thanks for posting this. If the moderators had any sense of decency, this thread would be stickied in every subforum.
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Note that payb.tc is citing emotional distress as the reason for the deletions.  More likely is that he and his ilk feel that they can no longer control the message in here and are consolidating and shutting up. This follows pirate's pattern and incidentally closely matches prior ponzi operator behavior. http://web.archive.org/web/20091026234156/http://geocities.com/currintrading/Some approaches (to be used in phases or in combination): I decided not to respond on the forums. I knew that I would quickly be asked for proof of CT's legitimacy, and I knew that I would have no investors to defend me. Instead, I decided to let the forum thread die.
If I was going to use the forums for my own advantage, I would need to find a way of neutralizing the forum skeptics. For the foregoing reasons, it would not be possible to win them over, but if I could shut them up for a long enough period, I might be able to persuade ordinary readers of the forums to invest.
Using the pretext of a lottery, I could draft all of my investors into an army and unleash them upon the forums--or at least one forum thread. Once again, my phantom team proved useful.
On threat-flooding: The skeptics were soon suffocated. Investors poured into the thread constantly. Even when one skeptic showed up to make a particularly thorough and blistering denunciation of my pyramid scheme, it was futile. His post was buried by all of the positive ones, and his post was lost among the several pages of replies that soon stacked up. My army and I were triumphant.
And much, much more. Really, there is much in common with this document: http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm |
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Just to make sure i get it. - You have an estimated 100k btc (1M USD) in users deposits
- You don't want to provide identification
- You try to say that you provided it when you registered the domain name, but in fact you didn't
Wow, is that for real ?? You're correct. He's also deleted all his posts here in an effort to save face: by the way if anyone asks, i deleted all my posts out of the retard thread.
don't want that one popping up in my "show new replies" list any more.
it's a bit rough on the emotions, having people post outright lies about you and then have their sheep believe it as factual,
so i'm gonna try not to spend 12 hours a day on the forum any more.
...will check in once a day to support bitcoin max.
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hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?
Good point. Are you Ian Grice? [whois dump] you can tell he's using a proxy registrar, so he doesn't have to put his real name. This makes the point then. He refuses to identify himself. |
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hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?
Good point. Are you Ian Grice? domain name: PAYB.TCregistrar: Key-Systems GmbH url: http://www.key-systems.netstatus: ok created date: 2011-06-02 00:00:00 updated date: 2012-08-10 10:32:30 expiration date: 2013-06-02 00:00:00 owner-contact: P-IIG25 owner-organization: Ian Griceowner-name: Ian Grice owner-street: 86 Monash Rd owner-city: Brisbane owner-zip: 4000 owner-country: AU owner-phone: +61.414235463 owner-fax: +61.111111111 owner-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.netadmin-contact: P-IFG21 admin-organization: Ian Grice admin-name: Ian Grice admin-street: 86 Monash Rd admin-city: Brisbane admin-zip: 4000 admin-country: AU admin-phone: +61.414235463 admin-fax: +61.111111111 admin-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.nettech-contact: P-IMG21 tech-organization: Ian Grice tech-name: Ian Grice tech-street: 86 Monash Rd tech-city: Brisbane tech-zip: 4000 tech-country: AU tech-phone: +61.414235463 tech-fax: +61.111111111 tech-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.netbilling-contact: P-TSB21 billing-organization: TLDs@RRPproxy.net Billing Department billing-name: TLDs@RRPproxy.net Billing Department billing-street: Im Oberen Werk 1 billing-city: St. Ingbert billing-zip: 66386 billing-country: DE billing-phone: +49.68949396870 billing-fax: +49.68949396871 billing-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.netnameserver: ns1.nationalnet.com nameserver: ns2.nationalnet.com |
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This: Who needs a 51% attack when you can just make sure every newspaper article on bitcoin forever mentions the countless ponzi schemes and untold millions stolen from credulous fools?
It is clear that the repercussions will be substantial.
And now you've hit the nail on the head for why I care.Thank you. I will say that I should probably recuse myself from this debate at this point. [mental pollution mercifully omitted] Glad to see your concession. Interesting. This point seems to make the con-artists wince. |
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