http://www.nxtreporting.com/shareholder.php?a=12465186738101000735 is up again... more porpoises and dolphins than before (I think 34 holder was the closest thing we had to a whale that we know of, maybe more of a Beluga than a Blue at close to 1% share) About 10 folks own about 10 or more shares looks like. This does not include the "stealth" holders with spams of 2 share accounts of course. Not sure I want to know what the account "bots" is for or where its' capital was derived from  Edit: I'm surprised James only has 10 shares  .
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On the money number thing:
You know this is a game of hearts and minds if you want adoption. Anything to that end is probably not a bad idea. Burning a few you still get the rounding issue. Who the heck is going to enunciate the whole string? Folks will say "about 4 billion", face it.
If this is a static / variable constant in a line of code, ya know... I can't imagine our devs would hard code values all over their code.
The downside I can see is the turmoil of "armchair engineering" and on the fly changes that would spook long term investors. The net net of course ought to be that you end up with the same % regardless of the number of units. The thing is so divisible up or down it seems silly to fixate on a fixed ratio.
I think it is a matter of your vision. If your vision is global adoption, be mindful of your audience at all turns, especially in a potential like Asia. That is a very long term view. If your view is that you don't want anything to destabilize the currency and send it in to a permanent spiral never to return to the depths of penny stocks and the like, then the view of irrational decisions being dangerous is probably also a reasonable view, albeit maybe more short term. The crypto world is fickle that is for sure. Success can be viral at such early stages, as can demise.
Will the average "joe" on the street give a crap about what the market cap of the currency they use is? Does the average "joe" even know what a market cap is? Does the average person today even have an idea how much circulation their bank notes have within an order of magnitude error? I bet not. I don't know...
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Nem Stake distribution is bad ass imo. for this i have assumed all stakes are redeemed. i have also assumed that the 25% for dev stuff has been split equally 25 ways just for arguments sake adding 25 account to number of accounts and adding 1000 stakes to the 10 - 50 stake range. iv no idea whats happening with those stakes so just stuck em in. 2822 possible nxt account holders excluding dev stakes so we have only lost 188 stake holders out of 3000 initial.. that is amasing..  some stats: Stakes range no. of accounts % of Total Stakes % of Stakes all accounts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0.1 - 0.4 193 6.78% 39.2 1% -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0.5 - 0.9 89 3.13 % 54.7 1% -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.0 - 4.9 2519 88.48% 2668.1 67% -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5.0 - 9.9 12 0.42% 84.7 2% -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10.0 - 50.0 34 1.19% 1153.3 29%-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- no compare this with nxt(cant find a pic i can copy): https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_distributionamount of nxt no. of accounts % of accounts total nxt % of all nxt 0-10 44922 78.89% 59596.00773985 0.01% 10-100 4010 7.04% 159677.21025917 0.02% 100-1,000 3286 5.77% 1262328.65081496 0.13% 1,000-10,000 2510 4.41% 8736397.06823062 0.87% 10,000-100,000 1530 2.69% 47858828.92765824 4.79% 100,000-1,000,000 549 0.96% 166355838.50015077 16.64%
1,000,000-1,000,000,000 139 0.24% 775547357.6386226 77.55%tbh.. i think even if there are a good few unclaimed we are still very clear into the safe zone when it comes to distribution.. :)7 this is what distribution looks like with out dev stakes..  Not to be captain negative, because I like these numbers, but you'll want to re-run that after the 2 stakes per account people redeem and consolidate :S. Don't get me wrong, I can't imagine that will throw these charts off wildly, but some of that is skewed, I suspect, by our own requirements  . Some of the folks are being lazy and carrying 19 or 10 stakes around in their nxt accounts, and may or may not dump some out of lazyness around launch time, and some folks are probably cruising around with a couple different nxt accounts in the 0.1 to 2.0 range. Pure speculation. |
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@void
If you knew there was a 1000 dollars sitting waiting for you would you not invest 5 dollars to set up a vpn to get past the fire wall or pay an it guy to do it for you or find a way somehow?
Apologies @ Kodtycoon if i new you were on the A list of Marketers-volunteers i would not have accused you of sounding like a banker. Does any one have the link to when the original discussion regarding unclaimed stakes took place. There is a considerable amount of info to sift through before i conclude to invest more or not. The one thing the niggles me is the staggering amount of unclaimed stakes. I tend to think these belong to Chinese accounts. It was decided by the owners of nem that i month was it so i suppose thats it then. A major irritant is what happens to those stakes now that we know the scale of the problem. Is this open for discussion or has it been decided behind closed doors. What i am trying to say is. The owners already have a reasonable amount of stakes for there work and on going work. They also have the sockpuppet stakes and all these unclaimed stakes coming. Imagine offering a new shito coin to a community and saying " there maybe a pre mine of around 30/40/50 % or so but dont fret it will all be used to make shito coin fantastic" Dont think there would be a long line of eager investors. This sounds more appealing Completely Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL No arbitrary distribution. Decentralized. The most egalitarian coin. Show your love to NEM. There is no blame for this situation and Nemsters should be proud of the success achieved to date. But it may appear to some that the lions share of wealth seems to be centralized. In a perfect world we could have a perfectly distributed coin with no unclaimed stakes. It's not a perfect world, though, unfortunately. So, the best thing we can do is try to turn a negative situation (having unclaimed stakes in the first place) into a positive one (using those funds to help further the development of the coin). I don't think anyone here can say with a clear conscience that they are glad there are unclaimed stakes. I know I hope that everyone who invested in the beginning gets their stake safely in their NEM wallet when the time comes. Unfortunately, the crypto world changes at a rapid pace. Many people likely invested (since it was such a small, small amount so many months ago) and then completely forgot about NEM or maybe even gave up on crypto entirely. But remember, that was more than a simple investment. By choosing to reserve a stake in NEM, you became a part of this community. The goal of NEM is to have a community of people who actually believe in the ideas of what NEM represents. I don't think we are looking for people who just want to pump and dump to convert their NEM back into a few more BTC or, worse, fiat. This is just my opinion but I feel like if you are not willing to be a part of the community, even after we are doing everything we can here (as volunteers nonetheless) to make it easy for everyone to claim their stake, then you forfeit your advantage of being an early adopter. Yes, we want to be accommodating to everyone who has an interest in NEM, but when there are thousands of people involved (and soon to be many more than that after launch), it is an impossibility to try and please every single person. In these early days of NEM, we have an obligation as early adopters and believers in this movement to try and make it successful for the sake of everyone who is an early adopter who IS actively participating. If we bring in unnecessary risk to the system in the way of holding stakes for people for an unlimited amount of time, that is not fair to any of us and could itself undermine NEM completely. Imagine, if you will, a situation in which NEM is worth $10/NEM. Suddenly a NEMstake is worth $10 million. By the time this happens, most of the initial stakeholders will have sold at least some of their coins off, and distribution will be much wider across hundreds of thousands if not millions more NEM users. By this time, there will be very few (if any) people holding 1 million+ NEM. Now suddenly you have people realizing they had a NEMstake, and we've been holding the unclaimed stakes indefinitely. Now you have people who have essentially artificially entered the market (because due to their lack of participation henceforth, they were not actually market participants and were not subject to the market pressures that caused everyone else to sell off or use their coins in order to distribute them to a wider user base). So now you have people who never cared about NEM in the first place with more NEM than anyone else. They will either dump the coins immediately and take their multi-million dollar lottery winnings or, even if not they will have artificially high and unfair harvesting power due to their disproportionately high amount of NEM. I just don't think it is fair to those of us who ARE actively participating and who will be building/securing the network from the beginning, to suddenly have to bend to the whims of stakeholders who come back to the party years later when they contributed nothing in the first place. To me, this goes directly against the principles of NEM in the first place. Anyway, that's just my opinion. Would love to hear others' thoughts about this as well. I positively agree. Furthermore, the call was for stake holders not investors. If you are a stake holder, it means you have active participation with vested interest. If you aren't around for what's going on it means you aren't contributing and your position as a stake holder has been neglected. Reciprocity is the key to every relationship. As TaunSew points out, if you have something worth 1,000 + USD, and are aware of this fact (key point, implies participation), I suspect you'll bother to deal with Tor or VPN. Edit: Actually, I think so long as you give a provision for "returning" the initial "membership" purchase, there isn't a lot to stand on in terms of logical arguments that would create a backlash. You purchased a place holder. You did not stay involved, and you did not comply with the "terms of service", that are subject to change at any time. By not adhering to the TOS you will get your initial membership price back, and that is that. Hard to be upset about having a net gain/loss of 0. Opportunity cost is on the purchaser's shoulders at that point. We don't deal in "what ifs". |
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Why not do what some pre paid debit cards or gift cards do and just have a "maintenance fee" for inactivity. In this way there would be a "cost" for folks here that would be spending their precious time responding to out of band requests to get their stake? Just advertise that plainly. Inaction has a cost but at least you get _something_. Every month past incurs some set % of the stake in expense (to go to dev fund or whatever) as motivation to claim it or lose it?
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Absolutely agreed. This idea reminds me a bit of Protoshares PTS which has proven quite popular and valuable. Two large things that drive value are utility and exposure, so anything to that end is also useful (within reasonable bounds). I just don't think air dropping it is a good idea at all. Once the coin has utility through the eco system and is used as an underlying currency for mobile apps, farmvilles, whatevers, then other people will want it outside of money/platform savvy folks. It has been proven countless times that money earned (I don't necessarily mean purchased with fiat, maybe via labor in community programs) is more precious to someone than money given. Hold it in reserve to fuel spin-offs, fund development, or reasonable and small chunks for grass roots PR stuff (associate modest amounts to tangible assets / give aways once a mobile app exists and there are at least a few apps of utility). Dumping it on people that don't understand what it is for or don't care will just hurt it as others point out. |
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0CZ: Did you ever comment on this piece? I see some folks in this board that have responded on referenced article, but no direct comment from you (that I am aware of or saw). Also interesting about btc-mike. He was one of the pillars seemingly separating BBR from the CN swirl. I certainly enjoy BBR's front end, but XMR seems to be the 800 pound gorilla. Would love to swoop in and support BBR, but all this CryptoNote swirl has me gun shy. Pardon me if this is "old news" (where one month in the crypto world is ancient history). I'm rather new around the crypto scene and I imagine my post will get some eye rolls, so thanks for the patience and responses from anyone in here that knows much more than I do.
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As BTC continues to fall, NEM will rise up in its place. Exciting times. Amy - I wanna marry you!! I'm flattered, but getting married is not on my list of things to do before I die, unfortunately. I have better things to do, like enjoying my life. (No offense.) In my experience intelligence in a woman is inversely proportionate to her interest in marriage and even more so for kids. This does not bode well for the human race. That's pretty cynical. Points to footnote about "in my experience". Of course I certainly don't aim to generalize, but I'm always happy when I'm wrong. |
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As BTC continues to fall, NEM will rise up in its place. Exciting times. Amy - I wanna marry you!! I'm flattered, but getting married is not on my list of things to do before I die, unfortunately. I have better things to do, like enjoying my life. (No offense.) In my experience intelligence in a woman is inversely proportionate to her interest in marriage and even more so for kids. This does not bode well for the human race. |
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Anyone have a solid date on the end of the crowd sale? Do tokens need to be redeemed before that date?
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Hey mates its getting hot with NEM cant wait to see it in full action soon wish the best and thx for all the development @ team and @ the supporters ~CfA~ first non-troll post? wow, we should mark it on NEM timeline Perhaps his account has been stolen  LOL rigel no no it aint stolen, im not a guy who would lose dem accountz btw i had ' CFA apology statement' way back in June nobody cared a lot. ive now over the time changed my opinion on NEM 360 degrees. whatever lets not discuss me in the thread cuz that might derail it, there r more important and fun topics than this 4 sure [BTW u can now calculate NEMstakes to Central African CFA here http://coinmill.com/NEM_XAF.html  ~CfA~ Let's hope it's 180 degrees you mean... :-D. |
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Yes indeed, and more confirmation of what we all have been reiterating here for sure. Now, the real challenge we face is getting those billions of people to use NEM instead of Bitcoin. And no, not for our own benefit, but because NEM is simply better. If he does not want to see those billions of people who cannot have a bank account lose everything as he so desperately wants to prevent, then I think NEM is going to be the better solution. Bitcoin, as we have been talking about here, is inherently flawed. A 51% attack is ridiculously easy for any entity with enough cash to execute, and that alone is reason enough for me to be wary about putting too much of my finances into BTC as a safe store of value. NEM, and I'm sure many other next-gen cryptocurrencies, are going to remedy that. We just have to educate people and show them why it's better. Bitcoin has the advantage in that it was the first to market, and the name is becoming known worldwide as we sit here in front of our computer screens at this very moment. NEM does not have that advantage, but that is up to us to change. This is why a mobile first approach is absolutely essential. This is also part of why I like a brain wallets because some poor sod in Sao Paulo that gets his mobile jacked in the cab (been there done that) will be SOL. If you have a mobile focus, with super super simple usability, and a brain wallet or some sort of mechanism for the mobile only folks that allows them to store there stuff somewhere with private key encryption (part of what that bitcoin article was talking about with regards to security), then I think you are very close. You don't want folks killing other folks for their mobiles to get at their "wallet". Same sort of problem with paper money and wallets today. People in rural areas might not have access to a bitcoin atm, or a bank account, but they might have a prepaid phone (does that have any sort of smart phone capable OS, not sure what that looks like). If I can "bump" my phone to theirs like samsung devices or whatever and flip stuff that way, might replace the goat at wedding time. Agree, mobile will play a key roll in the future of NEM. Encryption could also be another solution toward mobile devices, I know some mobile phones now allow you to scan your fingerprint or face to unlock your phone. The Nem mobile wallet could be designed to enable biometric encryption and decryption of the private keys. A brain wallet can be forgotten, biometric technology is the future, we are already moving into a wearable tech phase. Google glass The Apple Smart Watch etc We could also enable our mobile wallets to interact with a grid of ATMs creating a physical interface between merchants and consumers. -EFFV Cool so some dude grabs my phone, chops off my hand or beheads me for my eyeballs. . I agree, but the prospect terrifies me. Incidentally, that becomes a form of 2FA imho. |
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Yes indeed, and more confirmation of what we all have been reiterating here for sure. Now, the real challenge we face is getting those billions of people to use NEM instead of Bitcoin. And no, not for our own benefit, but because NEM is simply better. If he does not want to see those billions of people who cannot have a bank account lose everything as he so desperately wants to prevent, then I think NEM is going to be the better solution. Bitcoin, as we have been talking about here, is inherently flawed. A 51% attack is ridiculously easy for any entity with enough cash to execute, and that alone is reason enough for me to be wary about putting too much of my finances into BTC as a safe store of value. NEM, and I'm sure many other next-gen cryptocurrencies, are going to remedy that. We just have to educate people and show them why it's better. Bitcoin has the advantage in that it was the first to market, and the name is becoming known worldwide as we sit here in front of our computer screens at this very moment. NEM does not have that advantage, but that is up to us to change. Yes Bitcoin is why all of us are here now but NEM is still in infancy. It'll take a long time for any crypto to dethrone BTC but it'll happen eventually and NEM sure has a great chance in doing that. NEM is Crypto 3.0, wonderful devs, it has 4 Billion coins(easy for ditribution) and a wonderful community. As you say, it only depends on us and we'll make it happen I'm not sure I agree. A grassroots viral approach for the rest of the non-industrialized world could be incredibly successful. It all comes down to how easy you make things, and how well you promote through grassroots organizations. I have spoke to many people that say they'd get in to this stuff but they don't understand it. You have to put it in a context they understand. For example, if you want to get people that need to wire their kids money over seas in to it, then you make an app or front end that "Feels" that way in context for them but still uses the underlying block chain. If being the resident "pc guy" for my friends family and neighbors has taught me anything, its that low maintenance and ease of use is 99% of it to 90% of people. That is probably why the iPhone was so successful. I hated texting until I had an iphone. It was too alien to me (as ridiculous as that sounds but I know a lot of people that was true for). |
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Yes indeed, and more confirmation of what we all have been reiterating here for sure. Now, the real challenge we face is getting those billions of people to use NEM instead of Bitcoin. And no, not for our own benefit, but because NEM is simply better. If he does not want to see those billions of people who cannot have a bank account lose everything as he so desperately wants to prevent, then I think NEM is going to be the better solution. Bitcoin, as we have been talking about here, is inherently flawed. A 51% attack is ridiculously easy for any entity with enough cash to execute, and that alone is reason enough for me to be wary about putting too much of my finances into BTC as a safe store of value. NEM, and I'm sure many other next-gen cryptocurrencies, are going to remedy that. We just have to educate people and show them why it's better. Bitcoin has the advantage in that it was the first to market, and the name is becoming known worldwide as we sit here in front of our computer screens at this very moment. NEM does not have that advantage, but that is up to us to change. This is why a mobile first approach is absolutely essential. This is also part of why I like a brain wallets because some poor sod in Sao Paulo that gets his mobile jacked in the cab (been there done that) will be SOL. If you have a mobile focus, with super super simple usability, and a brain wallet or some sort of mechanism for the mobile only folks that allows them to store there stuff somewhere with private key encryption (part of what that bitcoin article was talking about with regards to security), then I think you are very close. You don't want folks killing other folks for their mobiles to get at their "wallet". Same sort of problem with paper money and wallets today. People in rural areas might not have access to a bitcoin atm, or a bank account, but they might have a prepaid phone (does that have any sort of smart phone capable OS, not sure what that looks like). If I can "bump" my phone to theirs like samsung devices or whatever and flip stuff that way, might replace the goat at wedding time. |
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Could we not use some to get the nem source Code peer reviewed by leading academic(s) in the field? If we want to be serious about this.. We need to do things properly and that would be a great step in the right direction. We could then summarise the report and have it published across the media and no one will be able to discredit the work of the devs
But NIS will be open source, why waste the funds? it's not a waste.. If you owned overstock would you just integrate a new type of crypto if it has not ever had a serious review done by at minimum 1 highly respected academic people in the area? I know I wouldn't even think about it it would be a straight up no. Doesn't matter how good the tech is.. If it hasn't been thoroughly checked over by a said person(s) then its not going anywhere serious long-term If i were overstock i would find my own people to look it over for two reasons: 1. Better trust 2. To make sure the underlying technology will meet my needs. good point.. Does anyone know how much it would actually cost to get the code peer reviewed? I think you do a bounty kind of thing. Have some really really A+ coders (I know a few I'd stake my reputation on here for) do a peer / code review. Have those that do a meaningful review and give the best input / find most bugs get some larger portion of a bounty. You could also do some easy git analysis on code contribution (not lines of code!), but number of tests added and code cover of tests, and or bug fix / fixes for the open source project. I think if you made that plain you'd attract a ton of good devs that at least give you code feedback if not refactoring of code base. Do some sort of fixed schedule / payment table and use a portion of the auction stakes. Edit: I'd help try to organize that if the community agrees. Remember, bad launches, hard forks, and other security disasters will put the coin DOA. Security and stability of the coin is huge. It is an under appreciated aspect by all the folks screaming for a live block chain. Remember, this is why we unit test and don't just crank out shite code. |
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Since NEM is a movement the stakes can be given away to average joe, help them achieve financial freedom.
I vote no to a give away. There was a difference between giving something away when it was $0 (January) and then giving it away when it is worth $800 (September). A lot of people would just intentionally sign up knowing they'll get a free $800 (or whatever the difference from the buy in). It took months on the asset exchange to remove the weakest hands and we don't need to weed past another hundred. +1000 Would also be insulting to those of us that patiently saved to buy stakes on the AE who have supported it all along and kept the price stable through aquisition. |
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