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What is the cost of changing to a new currency? If I hold another currency I suppose that means that my "USD-value" will go up and done according to the exchange of the currency of my choice (for example if I hold EUR and this exchange rate gets stronger to the USD, I will have more USD to buy BTC with). Can someone from Mt.Gox confirm this.
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Thank Bitcoin itself for being so cool!
It's gonna be a wild ride?
should i sell or should i buy!? i'm so confused!
You should help make it work +1 |
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I don't believe that, when the profits are gone we will have mostly miners that want Bitcoin to get big long term, and there are a lot of them. And also, this high inflation environment is a one time thing, it will be over in Dec of 2012.
Wait why...ohhh, LOLOL  Are you a greedy miner ? How does that 6 dollar exchange rate feel? I think you will feel really good with a 3-4 dollar exchange rate. |
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Duke, that is exactly the hole point, they WILL GIVE A SHIT when they don't mine with a profit.
No they won't. They will shut down their rigs and turn away. The few that remain will get more bitcoins per person, giving each of them even more influence on the market. Why it is bad that a lot of coins are concentrated on a small number of people I don't think I need to explain to you, right? I don't believe that, when the profits are gone we will have mostly miners that want Bitcoin to get big long term, and there are a lot of them. And also, this high inflation environment is a one time thing, it will be over in Dec of 2012. |
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but they are fighting all the greedy miners that are selling their coins at the exchanges
Where would you get your coins to buy and sell without us greedy miners?  Let me see, we have already 7 + million coins in the Bitcoin Economy. We need miners that believe in the Bitcoin Economy long term, not greedy miners that hit the exchanges with sell orders asap. Keep dreaming. 90% of all miners don't give a shit about bitcoin and just want quick profit. Duke, that is exactly the hole point, they WILL GIVE A SHIT when they don't mine with a profit. The hole problem is that Bitcoin is inflating at a very high rate, the miners have to much power over the price of Bitcoin, the only way to stop that is to do what they are doing to the Bitcoin Economy. Stop them from making easy money. I have said this from the very beginning, look at my old posts, maybe someone understands this... How do you make them not make easy money? You sell bitcoins you are holding so that they have to sell with a smaller profit, it you don't sell the miners will sell instead of you, why? Because we are in a high inflation environment. |
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but they are fighting all the greedy miners that are selling their coins at the exchanges
Where would you get your coins to buy and sell without us greedy miners? Let me see, we have already 7 + million coins in the Bitcoin Economy. We need miners that believe in the Bitcoin Economy long term, not greedy miners that hit the exchanges with sell orders asap. |
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And this should be at Bitcoin Discussion. It is to important of an event. I am guessing not many people know about the support level.
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It looks like Bitcoin is building up one of the biggest sell signals ever. We have been at this levels before and it has always rebounded. This time it looks like it will break through and because it has been a strong support level, when we are through it, it will be a massive sell signal. I think some few desperate people still trying to fight it back and have some solid buy orders (not as before when most of the buy orders disappear as soon as someone is selling in to it) at this levels, but they are fighting all the greedy miners that are selling their coins at the exchanges, right now that maximum amount is 7200 x 6 = 43000 dollars / day . The problem as I have told before is that Bitcoin is in high inflation environment, the boom came to fast and we are stuck in this environment for at least one more year. My prediction of 3-4 dollars seems to get right within a month or two.
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Why is this person only placing bid orders below the current bitcoin price, why is this person not actually buying any bitcoins? This has been going on since the price hit into the mid single digits.
The HFT bot is king. But, it doesn't matter. I think by 3-5 EST today something fun will happen. Someone is eventually going to have to sell off a few thousand. HFT bot? Trust me, there is no HFT going on with Bitcoins. |
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First indicator that someone has no idea what they are talking about: they think difficulty drives price.
HAHA. And you think you know what you are talking about? |
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The truth is this. At a high inflation environment, if the price is lets say 5 dollars (instead of 10 dollars), and it goes up from there in small steps (instead of speculators speculating up the price with high fluctuation). The money going in to the Bitcoin Economy will stay there at a much higher grade, because you don't have greedy miners that hit the exchanges as soon they have mined 0.1 BTC and order a withdrawal, because their ROI isn't high so they will stop mining when they can't make any quick money on the holy grail. You can see it as good money/ "long term money" and bad money/"short term money". Right now Bitcoin is attracting Bad money.
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So you're saying the price needs to fall to get rid of "short term greedy people" because if they remain then they may cause prices to fall?
Do you see how, perhaps, this "problem" fixes itself?
What I am saying is that miners that are in the Bitcoin Economy today shouldn't be able to make any easy money, they don't add anything good for Bitcoin long term. We need miners that want to build up the infrastructure and believes in Bitcoin in the long term. I had one solution of the problem, and it makes common sense. Maybe you have others? I know that this issue is getting smaller for every day, because inflation is a bit less for every day, but we have at least over a year left of it. |
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We are right now in a high inflation environment when we look at one key fact: Miners create 7200 Bitcoins/day or 2 628 000 Bitcoins/year. With the media hype in May and June of 2011 we saw a great power of "I want to get rich quick" miners that thought this is the holy grail. At the same time all the early adopters that are in Bitcoins for the long run thought this is great, at last we are getting the media attention we need and deserve.
What everyone missed was this, because we are in a high inflation environment the more Bitcoins gain in value the more "I want to get rich quick" miners will flood the mining sector of Bitcoin. And the more they will invest in it (mining equipment, electricity etc.), the more that money has to come from the buyers at the exchanges. It is a unfortunate situation that isn't easy to handle. The only way I can see this getting on the right track again, and that we don't see all this heavy fluctuations in price, is something that sounds to me to be common sense. As many as possible of the miners should be in the Bitcoin for the LONG RUN, no "I want to get rich fast" people.
That means, miners shouldn't be able to have highly profitable ROI that makes them invest even more in to it (for the next year or so). That means if there are manipulations going on at the exchanges right now, it should stop. That means that prices must go down so all the SHORT TERM GREEDY people is out of Bitcoin, after that we can start going up again and build up the infrastructure that is needed.
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It is something wrong in the way i0Guild count shares that isn't fair in any way, it is like we are all togheter putting up the GHash but just a few take advantage of it. It is funny that i0coin was created because ixCoins creator wanted it all for him self, the exact thing is happening now with i0coin.
So please, NEXT TIME a fork is created, do not put the difficulty at 1.
My guess is that i0Coin will be pretty much worthless as ixCoin will be. Who wants to buy like 100 coins that someone have 250 000 of already in the first day. As I said, exactly the same thing as ixCoin.
That'd be quite a trick, considering there are only ~282k right now and I have > 33k... With someone I mean a very few. The exact thing that wasn't supposed to happen. Funny. |
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It is something wrong in the way i0Guild count shares that isn't fair in any way, it is like we are all togheter putting up the GHash but just a few take advantage of it. It is funny that i0coin was created because ixCoins creator wanted it all for him self, the exact thing is happening now with i0coin.
So please, NEXT TIME a fork is created, do not put the difficulty at 1.
My guess is that i0Coin will be pretty much worthless as ixCoin will be. Who wants to buy like 100 coins that someone have 250 000 of already in the first day. As I said, exactly the same thing as ixCoin.
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Because of the very low difficulty just a very few miners with the highest Hash-levels will earn i0coins, if I see the numbers right its around 5 miners that get pretty much all of them. The top miner is the user with number 643. You can look it up at Block Statistics -> view "They" have already mined 250 000 coins, and I would guess a few if any have gone to the others. I am mining right now with 1,6 Ghash/s and have at this moment ZERO coins. |
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What about changing the name to FairCoin or PureCoin ? Or even just iCoin?
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As you can see on the fifth graph here http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ , for many months Bitcoin was very unknown to the public and because of that difficulty didn't change to the upside. If I have understood it correctly around 1,5 million Bitcoins were created from February 2009 until the end of same year. Also if I have understood it correctly very few people mined under this time period making the conclusion that Satoshi Nakamoto and a few more people have a considerable amount of Bitcoins (worth today around 16 million dollars). You could also suppose that a majority of this coins are in the hand of Satoshi Nakamoto. Today it has gone more than two years from the birth of Bitcoin, I am convinced that Nakamoto has big plans for Bitcoin and he/she/they have put considerable amount of time and effort in this interesting project. I am talking for my self, but I think that my thoughts concern also others that are thinking alike. I want to invest a considerable amount of money and time into this project/currency/commodity/freedom. But I think that until the person(s) behind Bitcoin doesn't come forward I think that the best I can do is to reconsider if I should invest time and money into this project. Because not getting any answers makes Bitcoin to become something uncertain and vague. If Bitcoin should become worth 100-10000+ times more than it is today, and be a serious threat to the establishment and the status quo of the financial world of today, we should demand for some sincere answers to this questions. My questions: How many Bitcoins in total does "Nakamoto" have? What is "Nakamotos" estimation of how many early adopters there is that have more than 200 000 bitcoins, 100 000 bitcoins and 50 000 bitcoins? What was the purpose of creating Bitcoin? What is your plan for the future of Bitcoin as "Nakamoto" sees it today? What are "Nakamoto" going to do with the wealth that has been created? Until this questions are not answered, and I am pretty sure the person/group behind this project can read this, we should really reconsider buying in until we get some answers. If this is going to get big, this questions will always hunt us until they are answered. |
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You don't get it? Why is it that so many here don't get easy math or easy economics. It should not be that hard. If difficulty goes down then I can mine more bitcoins with my "1,4 GHash/s rig" / day, when i do so, I will be able to sell MORE bitcoins / day, and because of that I don't need it to be at 5-6 dollars, I'm happy to get 3-4 dollars and I STILL make a good profit at the last line, that is in dollars / day. Get it now? If not please stop commenting.
YOU might get more BTC when the difficulty goes down, but the TOTAL amount of BTC paid to miners is THE SAME. That's the WHOLE POINT of difficulty. I think it's you that "don't get easy math or easy economics." And what happens if I get more Bitcoins, and everyone else that are STILL mining also does so? Do you think that our incentives to sell at a lower price would be higher? Do you think that everyone else that has bitcoins would see that and understand economics, see the opportunity to sell high (before the miners) and buy back cheaper? I'm trader and a miner. I'm going to get the best price for my BTC no matter where I got them from, mining or trading. I see what you are saying. If miners get more BTC this week because the difficulty was lower, they will be more likely to sell them cheaper to cover electricity and hardware costs. This is the old "difficulty drives price" vs "price drives difficulty" argument. We've been around and around this argument this whole thread. It comes down to what you believe. I believe price drives difficulty. This is like "liberal vs conservative" - in the long run, there is no right answer. That is true what you are saying price should in most cases drive difficulty. But I like to analyse things, for me right now that tells me that miners are more desperate. Because they have invested heavily in mining rigs last months, they wanted to "hustle" the direct buyer and thought they could make easy money, but we should be smarter then that. I'm a direct buyer (I believe in Bitcoin long term), but not at levels I know I am getting hustled. |
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