I'm sorry if you've missed it before when I've clearly stated it, but if you are running away because of my posts, that is good.  You are not the type of customer we want.  We want customers capable of rationally assessing a situation and being able to extract the truth from the lies.  If you are running away because of my posts, you are not in that category and we do not want you as a customer.  You will require way too much hand holding and attention, eventually costing more to keep you as a customer though your unrealistic expectations and unreasonable requests than you generate in revenue.   We highly encourage you to seek out our competition and inflict yourself upon them at your earliest opportunity.

Of course poor little Searing doesn't mention that fact that BFL has been shipping from stock for awhile now.  Order today get it in a few days kinda thing... lots of happy customers as far as that goes.  But Searing wouldn't want to mention that, because it makes him look like the whiny little brat he is.

You mean discounting the fact that Hashfast is less late than KnC is at the moment?  KnC promised summer delivery and didn't ship until the middle of October.

As you can see, if you bother to read around, it's the same trolls complaining about BFL over and over.  The other 49,980 orders are not having a little tantrum on every BFL thread in sight.

Another lie from dropt!  Who'dathunkit?

BFL is behind by less than a month, if you can even classify it as being behind, since we never promised a shipping date.  Be that as it may, if history repeats itself, we'll be right on target and timeframe for the Monarch.  Our second generation FPGA was underpromised and overdelivered as far as performance goes... if history repeats itself, the second generation ASIC will be as well.

Ok, so lets consider for a moment if Hashfast did not do what was good for Hashfast... Hashfast refunds the BTC at the current rate, presumably having to purchase them off the open market. Where does that money come from?  They probably don't have it, as it's already been spent on development... but lets say they do have the cash to purchase at least some of the BTC back.  They exhaust all of their cash to do this and issue as many refunds as they can.  Now they have zero cash to continue operations (people don't generally work for free and suppliers sure as hell don't give away product for free), have not paid back everyone and are forced to go out of business. 

The end result of your solution: Some people get paid back, others get nothing. No one gets hardware.

At least to me, that sounds like a much worse solution than everyone at least getting your hardware, even if it is late.  If I were a customer, I'd rather have guaranteed late hardware than a crapshoot of a 1 in ten chance of a refund or nothing.  Maybe you have a different opinion.



No... lots of people are calling for a BTC for BTC refund. Rightly or wrongly on Hashfasts part for agreeing to that (or not, depending on your interpretation), it's simply unlikley to be practical and you have the above outlined scenario.  If people were solely asking for USD refund, then I might in principal agree with you, but do I really have to quote the numerous people asking for BTC for BTC refunds?


Is it though? How do you know? From my own experience, I would say it's not.  Maybe it is, though and you have some inside knowledge I do not have.  Again, from personal experience, sharing too much information incites a whole different class of complaints and problems than not sharing enough... it's a very, very fine line and very easy to miss that line when communicating with this forum... and in fact, I personally think there is no happy medium, which is why I've stopped giving a crap what people here think.  I personally don't think it's possible to satisfy the forum denizens here and until the forum trolls are subdued by the moderators, it's why this forum is complete garbage and nothing important gets done here with regards to hardware.


Wow, that is a truly intelligent and cogent post and probably pretty accurate given the US legal system.  Thank you for taking the time to make it. 

As far as the request goes, I doubt anyone here would listen to anything I would gain information wise, since it would likely contradict their own personal biases and the crusade née witch-hunt that is going on right now.  Very few people here want to hear the truth, they just want their beliefs confirmed and the truth be damned.

I have no idea what is going on inside Hashfast or what it all means.  I'm simply pointing out the complete hypocracy of a large majority of this thread and calling for an end to it. (haha yeah like that'll happen!) Be consistent and logical when you pose your arguments.  Posing these contradictory arguments for and against something only undermine your case. A lawyer would have no problem digging up all this useless blabber and using it in a defense against Hashfast to show that the plaintiffs are nothing but immature temper tantrum throwers.


You haven't made any valid points with regards to you (and those following your same flawed logic) being a hypocrite.  You claim on one day it's required by the FTC and then the next day claim it's a "Force Refund" like it was against your will. 

BFL had to deal with this and I find it exceptionally egregious, but up until now, I had no solid case evidence for the hypocritical nature of the whiners and complainers... now I do.  BFL offered full refunds without question up until we started shipping. At that time, we forced everyone to either opt-in, by having to login to their account, read the agreement and then click that they accept the agreement that there would be no further refunds... If they failed to do so or disagreed, they would be given a refund.  After more than a month (almost two!), we stopped refunds.  Now BFL is villified for not giving refunds, even though we offered them unconditionally for months and then forced people to agree to no refunds before their order would proceed.  So now we have people screaming and crying about the FTC regulations (which they obviously don't understand, but we'll leave that for a different discussion.) and how BFL is required to give refunds.  Now we have Hashfast, who is forcing those self same refunds on people and people are crying and screaming about Forced Refunds.

This just demonstrates that it was absolutely, unequivocally the right decision by BFL on how we handled the situation. 

TL;DR: No matter what a company does, there will always be the whiners and criers about how it's done... that being said, it's best to do what's good for the continued existence of the company. If you're going to have to deal with the disgruntled people no matter what, then keep the company a float so you can handle the problems instead of going out of business trying to satisfy the unsatisfiable.  I believe that's what might be happening with Hashfast right now - they are doing the best they can in a really crappy situation.  Maybe I'm completely off base and incorrect about it, but having been on both sides of the equation now, that's what it looks like to me.  But that is purely my opinion.

So which is it?  Forced Refunds or the The Law (tm)?  You can't have it both ways. Stop being a hypocrite.*


* Not just directed at RickJamesBTC, but everyone else who is picking and choosing to call it "Forced Refunds" when it suits your complaint and "The Law" when it doesn't.

Hey Searing... since you think it's going to be a brick, I assume you won't mind if we deliver your unit last, right?  I mean, according to you, a brick is a brick, so if you get it at the end of the line you won't mind, right?

You were not forced in to anything. If you had taken delivery of your 65nm when you were up for it, you would have ROI'd and been in the black already.  You know it, I know it... everyone knows it.  You just want to whine and bitch because that's your hobby.  So please, by all means, cry some more... everyone loves hearing you whine.

5 @ .6

I have tried to catch up with all of the GA & password reset requests today.  There are inevitably some I have missed (Why do people want to send me 12 page dissertations when sending password reset requests?  The world may never know...)  ...

If I have missed your request, please send it again to admin@eclipsemc.com.  Please be as brief and succicnt as possible, in addition to including the necessary information, which is basically email address and account name.  Requests must come from the email address associated with the account, other requests will be ignored.  If you do not have an email address associated with your account, you need to create a new one as your account is not recoverable.

Poor Bick  He can't even get hardware out with his "ASIC for dummies" instructions he was given and spends all his time obsessing over BFL. It must really suck to be such a failure, I can't imagine what it's like.  Methinks he might be a bit envious and expresses it through lashing out like at those that can actually produce what he never can.

Yeah, I ran the numbers on Thursday... our RMA rate is 1.27% or thereabouts.  50% of that is like the picture above.  So the real failure rate is somewhere under 1% of delivered units.

I wonder where Darren "Bicknellski" Bicknells promised hardware is?  He promised to deliver it in December and here it is January and nothing... yep, certainly the guy I would take advice from.

You two really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? heh... it's like watching two toddlers trying to be part of an adult conversation.  It really is.

It's always gratifying when the trolls only thing they have left to troll about is typos!

You're the only one attempting to confuse the issue with your minsinformation, FUD and outright lies.  You have yet, to date, been able to provide a single shred of proof for any of your allegations.  You even make the same ones in your post here, stating that I either "never address them or just confuse the issue."  I've addressed the numerous times, you just don't like the answer and refuse to accept it.  That's your own personal problem that you are trying to project onto me.  I'm sorry you don't see it and don't accept it, but again, it doesn't change reality.  All your claims are BS.  You can't back up a single claim, you never have since the beginning. You just sling the lies and FUD you hear and think you know without having anything real to back it up.  Please, by all means, unplug for the weekend and give some thought to your life.  It's pathetic.  You spend your time on the internet, arguing with people but you fail to spend any of that time actually presenting arguments that are based in fact.

You are just like every one of the people here in the HF thread that are complaining about the "forced refunds."  Those are the same people that were screaming, a few scant months ago, about how "The FTC requires you to send a refund if you don't ship in 30 days!"  It's willful ignorance at best, malicious behavior at worst.  You embody the worst aspects of both of those.  You are both willfully ignorant of the facts and you are malicious about it, that is why I tell you that you are useless. You add nothing to the conversation except confusion and misinformation, that's the entirety of your contribution. Please, by all means, tell me how confusion and misinformation is helpful.  I'm sure you have a great story to spin on how you've not posted false information, repeatedly, even though I just demonstrated you have done it twice in the past page and half here.

I don't label "every single one of my detractors as delusions..." I only label the ones, like you, who are unable to grasp the reality of the situation and understand how the real world works.  You are so disconnected from it that it's impossible to present you with logical arguments and you be able to evaluate them like an intelligent human being.  You are so bent on believing the fantasy that no amount of cogent argument, logic, evidence (or lack thereof) will convince you otherwise.  You are very much like many in this thread that want mutually exclusive outcomes to the same situation to happen simultaneously.  It doesn't matter to you that what you ask is impossible, it only matters to you what you believe or feel.  

I suspect, but have no direct evidence, that people like you erroneously believed that you'd make millions of dollars from mining and had unrealistic expectations of what you were buying, because you failed to understand the situation or (like you) chose to remain willfully ignorant of it.  The simple fact of the matter is, if you were the only person getting an ASIC a year ago, you'd be rich, that is true.  However, you weren't' the only person.  Thousands of other people were getting one as well, many of them before you.  The same goes for Hashfast right now ... you were promised a miner in October, and if you were the only person getting said miner in October, you'd make tons of money.  However, there are many others getting their miners in October as well, many of the likely before you.  What you, and those like you fail to understand is that the difficulty would have risen faster, earlier and you'd be in the same boat you are now, still complaining that you aren't a multi-millionaire and blaming others for your failure to understand what you were buying into.

I don't know what's going on in Hashfast land and I honestly don't really care.  Maybe they are scamming, but I seriously doubt it.  They made promises they shouldn't have and I said as much last summer. But at the end of the day, you bought into an experimental technology on the cutting edge of electronic design for an experimental technology that could implode at a moments notice.  For you to come and say you didn't understand the risks borders on incredulity. Instead of asking "Did you know the risks?" the real question is "How could you not know the risks?"

Except... there was no "Two more weeks" updates.  That is a meme that has no basis in fact... go on, try to find evidence.  You can't.  I said "Umm, two weeks?" once in response to FCC certification.  That's it.  That's where it came from.  So, as usual, you are just repeating the same old tired lies, trying to make yourself feel better about your inability to decipher reality from your own mental fiction.  Sad.

You can "refute" all you want, but until you can bring some proof to your refutations, they are meaningless... just like you.  Just because you wish a thing to be so does not make it so... so keep wishing as hard as you want, see how well that serves you.  My statements and estimate were 100% honest, just because you don't like them doesn't make them any less true.  I don't know what's going on with Hashfast or what they've said, etc... and I'm not speaking for them in any way, just countering your mindless BS that has no basis in reality or fact.

I know, the harsh light of your hypocrisy is bright and blindingly painful. You'll get over it.