go edit your post and remove this bs, why would you even post this, things are confusing enough as it is.  stupid....

exactly, if they delivered the product and the customer wants to return it then the "all sales are final" clause can be argued if taken to small claim court.

If they never delivered the product to begin with, it doesnt apply, you can goto any court in any state or county, and will be ordered to refund the payment back to the customer.

Of course to find a "BFL" legal entity or an individual to take to court is a different matter entirely,  as far as i know bfl is completely anonymous, just some website ran by a bunch unknown individuals. There is no legal LLC or legal ownership established. So who are you going to sue to get your money back if paid via btc or wire?   Only way is to go through the criminal route, but the feds wont even look at it if it's less than 7 figures, and if the individual are outside of the US you can completely forget about it.  Making things even more complicated, btc is not considered a legal currency in US, so it's no different than if you paid with peanuts to the US legal system, or any country for that matter. Bottomline if you paid with btc, you are at the complete mercy of BFL.

I kept saying it's insane the level of trust people here have and willing to part with their hard earned money/btc on some hopes & dreams without any recourse of getting the money back, but kept getting flamed.

fixed

who the **** cares?  Give us the details or just go away.

what is the point of this thread.

terrahash, when will my paypal refund be issued? support ticket was created yesterday morning, order #1195 thanks

fyi for someone who was maintaining that spreadsheet, i cancelled my order ( #1195 ) this morning and requested for paypal refund.  Havent got a response from terrahash yet.

lol......

that's a wet dream... the legal and monetary implications are tremendous. No established company will take on that kind of risk without a prior precedent.

but since this whole thread is hopes and dreams, if paypal does accept btc as a form of payment, it will completely legitimize bitcoin OVER NIGHT, establish it as a mainstream currency, and most important set the precedent for everyone else to follow - all the rats will then come out of the holes and start accepting bitcoin as well. Of course the price will then skyrocket, which will get the financial sector interested, then the good times will roll. Right now bitcoin is at what? 1billion market cap? wall street wont even take a piss on it with that kind of number, but if it becomes 50-100 billion market then there will be interest.  And the beauty of all this is when the government start to enforce policies, the lobbyists of those big firms will be working FOR bitcoin.

While we are having this nice dream with hand on our ****, why not imagine avalon is actually legit, and they will ship all those chips by july, and terrahash is also the most honest company, they will take 2 weeks to assemble and ship it out right away to their customers, and we will all get our 100000 ghs miners by august and make boat load of cash before the difficulty goes through the roof. 

1) what exchange are you basing the strike price on?
2) what determines the settlement price, for such thinly traded market, you cant base on the closing price on a specific time at  expiration date. It needs to be the average price for the last 24-48 hours taken at hourly interval to avoid price manipulation
3) i cant comment on the premium you are charging because i have no idea what the current price is compared to the strike you are posting, if the strike is atm or otm.

All in all, this is interesting.

when will we know if our order is in batch 1 or not?

that's the only relevant info we need, everything else is just noise as avalon havent shipped the chips.

You are missing the point though, if they fill all those orders now -> difficulty goes up significantly -> their hardware prices have to drop in accordance in order to have any future orders. So it's not that if they ship it now, someshow people will place more future orders. It's all linked back to controlling the difficulty.

There is no long term, no running a legit business planning for the future. It's a mad dash cash grab to suck in as much preorder money as they can before the difficulty hit the threshold that makes hardware prices drop to their cost basis while trying hardest to delay shipping->difficulty, after the hardware balances out then btc will trade just like any other commodity.

why is it a safe and smart move for avalon to ship the chips asap? they already took your btc, why would they ship asap? they will try to delay it as long as they could. Bfl, avalon, and knc(if it's even real) are all playing a game of chicken trying to delay as much as they can.  Asic miner is playing a different game by charging such a high price that barely breaks even for the suckers who buy their hardware but at least they are not lying about shipping the hardware.

Everyone wants to buy cheap hardware and hoping for a return in a few months, avalon & bfl are not stupid they are using exactly this mass hysteria and greed to sell seemingly unbelievable cheap hardware, of course it's another story to actually get them to ship it. I can guaranteed there will not be massive shipment of anything asic from those companies, they will ship maybe 1-2 orders then delay another month or two to ship 1 more order etc..to have the appearance of trying and keep the mobs at bay.

There is no free lunch, only way to have those kind of returns is to create your own asic chips with a 500k min investment, but then once you have them YOU YOURSELF will be playing the exact same game as those guys trying not to ship it to the masses after taking their money.

My $10k bet on terrahash is 1) terrahash is one of the lucky ones to receive a chip shipment from avalon  2) keep to their word like they are trying so hard right now to appear legit, and actually ship the hardware after getting the chips, not mining in some warehouse first for a few months citing technical challenges - the temptation is undeniable - if you can have a  5 figure income per day mining using those hardware would you make up some bullshit excuse and pocket the coins instead?

I have been trading risky equities, options+futures and fx all my life both professionally and as a hobby, never seen a market with so much bullshit and scam yet at the same time so many people willing to part with their hard earned money over blind faith.  Hell vegas seemed tame by comparison.

The board is a factor but in my opinion it is not the biggest factor by a long shot.  The biggest factor is asic actually shipping their chips instead of keep bull****ing us with their dog and pony show trying to delay it further while they mines more. I have zero trust in that shady outfit.

why I am always the last one in the queue 

hi how many orders were cancelled?

That's fair, will be waiting for the email, hopefully it will contain details about if my order is in the first 10k chip.  I think everyone should just chill until then no point to speculate needlessly.  The order queue issue terrahash already addressed whether we like the solution or not no point discussing further, personally i think it's fine for them to cancel all orders so far after 24 hours if not paid.

My only question which i think is critical to receiving the hardware is why the asic chip order still show a status of processing as of yesterday, it's a fact orders placed after terrahash's already have their order status changed to sample chip shipped/ordered etc..

All in all it's a highly speculative bet, terrahash appears to be legit but none of it matters if asic is playing games and we know for a fact they are.  Just hope the few batch they eventually do ship will have terrahash in it. Otherwise all this is for nothing.

I was always under the impression the queue is based on who paid first? isnt that the standard practice and common sense. Why should someone who places 10 orders but doesnt pay until the last min when they know terrahash is shipping be in front in the queue than the person who paid right after placing the order?

I understand bitcoin payment may take a bit time to confirm that is fair, those who paid with bitcoin should be allowed 12 hours if no confirmation by then, the order should be moved down the queue.

Are you guys saying terrahash is not processing order based on who paid first?  that doesnt make any sense.

terrahash can you please confirm.

Order #1195 made on June 19, 2013. Order status: processing.

Order Details

Product   Total
Cart Subtotal:   $ 8,700.00
Shipping:   $ 750.00 via Expedited Shipping
Order Total:   $ 9,450.00

TerraHash DX Large × 1
Number of Modules:
8 (144 GHash/sec)
Power Supply:
Yes
$ 8,700.00

will you use john k for escrow?

so for at the money puts you are looking to charge $30 which is ~30% premium for a 30 day contract?  in the real option market people will only pay those kind of price if they expect a blackswan event like the lehman collapse, but given btc's volatility it may be justified except you have no hedge. So i guess the plan is to keep pocketing the premium on those naked puts until a time when(if) btc crashes and blowup your account then default on the contracts. Not a bad gig, many sell side funds have done just that on the street