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1341  Other / Off-topic / Re: Government regulation always a bad thing? on: March 16, 2011, 01:11:45 PM
Yep, it's true.
Just two things: he doesn't have the right to fraud the contract by saying that the building has safety standards which it doesn't, nor he has the right to silence a competitor, like another real state agency, which publicly defame him by exposing the fact that his buildings are not safe.
1342  Other / Off-topic / Re: Government regulation always a bad thing? on: March 16, 2011, 10:39:00 AM
Here's an interesting case (bad translation though).  In the town of Aquila in Italy, hit by a large earthquake in 2009, there are builders who have been contracted to reconstruct some apartment blocks, but they are not following regulations. 

I didn't read the text, but there are two possibilities:

- These contractors were hired to provide something they are not providing, therefore they are committing fraud and should be punished accordingly (either forced to provide what agreed or return the money).

- People who hired them actually knew they would not follow some safety standards (maybe because it's cheaper, don't know), and didn't care. Then, it's their problem only. What's your solution? Point them guns and force them to follow the safety standards you judge adequate? Honestly, if that's your opinion you're a wannabe dictator.

Of course, if the irresponsibility of some harms others (like your reckless built building falls over mine), then they are involuntarily violating the rights of these innocents, and should pay for it. If you want to be safe against such risk anyway, you could try to live in a neighborhood where everybody follows a set of safety standards that pleases you. Legitimate "neighborhood laws" can exist in a libertarian society, as long as the entire neighborhood was legitimately "built" by a group which sells the lands under a specific contract.
1343  Other / Off-topic / Re: Alright, things are going down the toilet... on: March 16, 2011, 09:10:09 AM
I suppose you get a good level of freedom (relatively to the rest of the world) on some small nations or in city-states, like Monaco, Liechtenstein, Singapore... they have to be more free than the neighboring large states, at least.

I don't know how easy it is to emigrate to such places though... to go to Monaco, I know you "have" to be rich. Smiley
I heard Singapore is quite authoritarian with "behavior" laws, like drugs and prostitution.
1344  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Order ID in a new transaction type? on: March 14, 2011, 10:37:36 PM
I agree with jgarzik on this one. Please, don't add this kind of unrelated data to the block chain.
1345  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: SSL again on: March 14, 2011, 08:44:24 AM
HTTPS is not default here. To have it, you need to explicit ask for it. People who don't even know what a certificate is would just remain in HTTP.
1346  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Peer-To-Peer Lending: The Free Market In Action on: March 13, 2011, 05:56:35 PM
Bitcoin value is still too instable for serious lending. You have no idea how hard/easy it will be to pay your debt. Bitcoin lending will probably have to wait for a stabilization in bitcoin value, and I guess that will only come after "mainstreanization".
1347  Other / Off-topic / Re: Utah passes constitutional tender act on: March 12, 2011, 04:06:45 PM
The blog says the legislative has already approved it, why do you say it will have to wait for another legislative session?

Quote
Today, the Utah Senate passed HB317, a bill which will legalize gold and silver as tender within the state of Utah and exempt the exchange (purchase) of such specie from sales and capital gains taxes. Having already passed the House, the bill will now be sent to Governor Herbert to be signed into law, should he so decide.
1348  Other / Off-topic / Utah passes constitutional tender act on: March 11, 2011, 11:18:49 PM
Have you seen this?
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/03/utah-passes-constitutional-tender-act/

Quite interesting and promising.
BitcoinUSA is in Utah, isn't it? Will its owner consider making gold/silver exchanges for BTC as well? Smiley
1349  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fee policy repository on: March 11, 2011, 05:17:01 PM
I don't see how could that evolve much, specially in the current state of things where you can always put every paying transaction in your block.

When block space becomes scarce enough, then you should just try to maximize fees, probably by ranking transactions by fees per byte...
1350  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bandwith used by Bitcoin is almost irelevant right? Super low? on: March 11, 2011, 12:31:28 PM
Currently it is quite low, and I guess it'll remain like that for a while. But one day it might require more bandwidth than average home users have.
1351  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of Wealth on: March 11, 2011, 11:02:36 AM
I'm glad to see you took the time to read even my text and watch the long video. That shows you're not just some troll, rather someone really interested.

No, claiming that I support violence and dictatorship when I in fact do not is an ad hominem attack. What I'm saying is that if you want to live under the rules of the current contract that the US has with it's citizens (or any other state) you have to adhere to the rules setup by that entity.

That's the thing. There's no such contract. I never signed any contract giving total control of all my properties (including my body) to any armed group. And yet I've been forced to do so since birth. That's totally authoritarian and violent. (This piece of the video you didn't like satirizes very well this wrong idea Smiley)

And no, you can't say that by using the services this violent group monopolizes I'm agreeing with anything, because, for a start, the way such services are provided is already criminal (from an ethical definition of crime, obviously not from a state definition). They use stolen resources to provide such services, and they coercively forbid competitors to provide them. There can be no valid contract there.

The only way a state could claim to have the right of doing all they do is if they were the legit owners of all the land they control. And that's obviously not the case. To be legit owner of anything, you either need to acquire it legitimately (voluntarily), or you build it out of your own labor, using only resources you legitimately own or that nobody does (original appropriation, the principle behind homesteading).
Every state territory in this world is the outcome of plain brute violence. Maybe tiny territories like Monaco would be an exception, but I doubt it.

And rulers doesn't seem to be such a big problem either, since you applause the Cheiftains in Iceland and whatever the other were called in Ireland.  Seems to me that they are just what you protest so much against. Elected leaders.  Your text was interesting though, and I enjoyed reading it. The auto-translate wasn't too bad.

No, it's definitely not the same. Elected leaders in modern democracies use violence to impose their rulings. Chieftans did not force you to agree to theirs, although in Iceland there was this problem of a maximum number of chieftans, the freedom of choice among the existent chieftans was already enough to make that system way different from current monopolized states.

The video however was quite bad. It was very naive, full of misrepresentation and distortions and hopes that things would just "work out".

It's not "hopes that it will work out", it's more a "certainty that it will work better", even though you don't exactly how it will work. That's the result of solid economic knowledge that shows that freedom brings a much better structure of incentives than monopolies, in any sector, from telephony to laws.
Maybe the most important part of that video is the one where he tries to describe why the government is incapable of making economic calculations. He should have spent a bit more time on that explanation I suppose.

The flash-animation was a nice introduction, but nothing new. And it does describe an ideal world, a theory. While I also agree with the fundamentals, I'm not an idealist.

That was my first reaction to that animation too. Smiley

The premise of the contracts everyone is supposed to agree to is that all parties are equal.

No, people are not equal. The main ethical premise is that people should have the same set of fundamental rights. Denying that is supporting a sort of cast society, pretty much like aristocracy did. That's the only way I can see one could argue for a state, actually.

And if you enter into a contract as a weaker part and being exploited, how is that not comparable to the force that the state imposes on you.

It's very different.

If you life is miserable because you're directly or indirectly forced to remain miserable, that's not only a criminal action perpetrated by this conscious agent who attacks you, but that's also something you'll never be able to get rid off without getting rid off the aggressor, or at least decreasing his level of aggression and increasing your level of freedom. It's both ethically and economically "bad".

If your life is miserable "just because it is" (bad luck, poor/bad parents, natural catastrophe, inability in being productive, whatever), then, first of all, that's not the result of an aggression perpetrated by an individual. There's no crime there. Then, for example, if an individual proposes you something that, for outsiders' standards, is something humiliating or degrading, but for you it represents an improvement, even if minimal, you'll certainly accept it. You would not accept something that would make your life even more miserable than what "nature" already does. So, naturally, you see a possibility of improvement there coming from this "exploitations", as people who haven't being under your skin call them.
And if you observe the economic incentives of such framework, you'll see that the possibility of profiting from these miserable people cheap labor will drag lots of investors, allowing such miserable people to improve their life faster and faster. It's a virtuous circle, not a "trap" from which you can't get out, like the scenario of coercion.
It's the typical sweat shop scenario, so criticized by leftists who don't really see the entire picture.

As you can see, there are major differences, both from an ethical and an economical point of view.
1352  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Self Inking bitcoin stamps! PRICE LOWERED! on: March 11, 2011, 08:05:24 AM
What would you guys pay for a custom stamp like this?

Do you think you could make a STOP INFLATION one and ship to France for, say, 20 BTC?
1353  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Self Inking bitcoin stamps! PRICE LOWERED! on: March 10, 2011, 04:42:43 PM
Any chances of having a more generic one, with the words "STOP INFLATION" instead of "STOP THE FED"?
1354  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of Wealth on: March 10, 2011, 03:13:27 PM
You need to merge your labor to a piece of land in order to ethically claim that such land is yours.
That is a made up rule, just like the rule of states.

It's "made up" with logical deductions out of axioms from human nature and basic ethic definitions such as "every human being should have the same set of fundamental rights". Saying this is "made up" is almost like saying mathematics is "made up". It doesn't prevent it from being true.

It only works if everybody agrees with it, and even then there would need to be regulations about how much land you can claim for a particular amount of labor, how to measure labor, someone to solve disputes, and so on.

Yes, and there would be such "regulations", only voluntarily.
It's not necessary that absolutely everybody agrees though.

That's the goal of the seasteading project: http://seasteading.org/
It is just not that easy though.
Interesting. I still think it would be better to take over an already recognised country, though. I think for instance that transfering money to or from an entity that does not consider itself to belong to country will be difficult at best.

Bitcoins solve the problem of transferring money. Wink
Taking over existent countries is probably harder. People don't easily accept a bunch of foreigners coming in and trying to change everything.
1355  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of Wealth on: March 10, 2011, 11:00:32 AM
Technically they're only forcing their will on those who freely choose to live under US rule.

hehe, yeah, pretty much like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfQdw2K59x4

You need to merge your labor to a piece of land in order to ethically claim that such land is yours. Might doesn't make right.

Since all of the world is already spoken for, the only realistic way to get properly free land would be to pool together and buy a small island country or similar. There are way too few liberalists in the world for there to be any chance of changing a rich country, and whining about things that will never happen is just a waste of time.

That's the goal of the seasteading project: http://seasteading.org/
It is just not that easy though.
1356  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of Wealth on: March 10, 2011, 10:54:40 AM
It's not ad hominem, I'm just basing myself on what you've been defending on this thread: the use of violence to force people to adhere to your regulations and taxes. You're defending the state, so by definition you're supporting violence.

And who said "no rules"? Freedom is about no rulers, not no rules. This has been said more than once on this thread too. This is such a repeated topic when discussing libertarianism that when I had the chance I wrote a text about it myself. It is in Portuguese, if you don't mind an auto translation: http://tinyurl.com/6jplv8u
Of course you can find better material than that. The short book Chaos Theory, from Robert Murphy, is easy to read and good. There are also plenty of videos like this (very good video this one).

Since I'm giving links, one that you shouldn't miss is this nice short animation on ethics: http://www.isil.org/resources/philosophy-of-liberty-index.html
It was actually this animation that made search for more answers concerning libertarianism. When I first saw it, that put me in a sort of contradiction, since I couldn't disagree with its fundamentals, but at the moment I couldn't agree either with the conclusion of such fundamentals. So I went on reading and learning about ethics and economics, until I changed my mind in many aspects.
1357  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Poll: What are your Bitcoin Client Feature Request / wishlist? on: March 10, 2011, 10:27:54 AM
I also agree with removing the default CPU miner. It causes more problems than good.

Separating the GUI from the command line would probably be a good idea too, but I have no idea about the effort that would be needed.
1358  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of Wealth on: March 10, 2011, 10:22:57 AM
The army quote was more of a way of saying that there's no shortage of people who wants to rule you.

With that I agree. That's the main reason why we have states everywhere. And you seem to be among these tyrants, since you support such brutality.
1359  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of Wealth on: March 10, 2011, 09:27:37 AM
There's an old saying.
Every country has an army; your own or someone elses.

Same with the government. Without an elected government we'd have different kind.

Yeah, yeah, right. Same excuse used to defend the practice of slavery during 19th century: "It exists everywhere, since always. It's part of human nature!"

And by the way, an army doesn't necessarily need to force people to pay for their protection.
And even without organized armies, a nation of armed people can already offer strong resistance too. Search about medieval Ireland, and how they've managed to repeal both Viking and Normand invasions. It took the English a strong effort (and carnage) to gain control over them, even England being a much larger nation at the time.
1360  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of Wealth on: March 10, 2011, 09:03:23 AM
I have nothing against regulations, as long as there are several sets of them, and you can chose which one seems to you to be the most fair.

I think a more important point is that regulation does not necessarily have to be statist regulation, and does not necessarily have to be enforced through violence. In fact, I would argue that statist regulation almost always ends up causing problems, not fixing them.

+1
That's an important point that even so called minarchists frequently fail to understand.
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