Ahahahahaaaaa.  Asta este romanul meu.  Eu am ordonat 3 miner Rigs de la butterfly labs și sper sa mai cumpăr câteva, dar nu le-am primit încă.  Problema este că dificultatea a crescut si o sa sara si mai mult.  Atunci numai dacă ai curent gratis merita.   Mă gândeam sa vin în România cu asic minere ale mele că acolo știu că găsesc curent "pe nașpa", ahhaaaaa.

2.6 GIga Hash este puțin pentru 14 GPU man (omule).  Dar în România totuși este bani, cât scoți cam $20 pe zi în bitcoins?  Mai bine decât să tragi la sapă pentru 500,000 de mi pe zi.  Eu aș cumpara mai multe ATI 7970 GPU (sunt cele mai bune GPU înafară de 7990 care nu merită banii) care fiecare 7970 GPU face 500MH dar costa $400 bucata si după ce bagi curentul nu-mai faci profit.  Singura soluție este asic miners care costa foarte mult.

În ce oraș stai?  Eu sunt din severin și dacă fac rost de destui bani vreau sa fac o fermă de miners pe curent de firmă (cunosc pe cineva dar nu sunt sigur) dacă nu pe nașpa oricum sigur merge.  Că numai așa poți sa faci bani la nivelul asta.

Edit:  am Mai ordonat inca unul de 5GH si am vorbit cu iei si merita sa faci upgrade la 7GH Pentru $100. Ei zic ca nu overclock the chips si doar folosesc chips my bune. 

Nu stiu daca cred asta eu tot cred ca doar fac overclock on binned chips care intradevar sunt Chips Mai bune.  Dar $50 Pentru fiecare 1GH in plus este foarte bun deal.

Deadsea33, whom are you referring to?

MarkM, you've mentioned before how billions of devcoins have been borrowed for various video games.  But you said its a non-event since it's all virtual and they can't even pay the interest let alone buy back the coins.

But now you're saying tons of actual devcoins are "tied up" in or due to various video games.  As in they cannot be sold on the open marlet because they have been esentially been borrowed against an X number of actual Devcoins?  


Is this right?  If so how many devcoins are locked down and for how long or what would it take to release them and what happens in game X where a guy borrowed Devcoins and say Devcoin goes up 1,600 fold overnight to $1, who pays what and who loses that massive amount?

Cause if so then there's nothing virtual or unreal about this matter.  If this is true then it has a real and profound effect on how devcoin will appreciate eventually.  If this is true then this greatly reduces the actual outstanding number of devcoins or actually the float in stock terms and the float is what counts as it's the float which holds the inertia of a particular stock and prevents it or makes it much harder to take off when upward pressures ensue.


Can you confirm and maybe add some color as this is very confusing.  TIA

Edit:  MarkM, can you also quickly mention 2 or 3 of the other coins you say are also locked up in this virtual economic world?  Like how about ixCoin?  Thanks again.

I pre-apologize for this long post but it is all very relevant to the future of devcoin and it involves the risks and benefits of all who contribute to devcoin, now and in the future.

Amin, weisoq, short term, Devcoin is hitting on all cylinders.  Right time and right place, they're in the hyper growth phase right now so cutting back on printing coins is not possible, nor a good idea, now or in the near term.

We have High global unemployment and devcoin is everywhere offering jobs with real pay.  This is why I said the upward pressure variables will grow exponentially and some logarithmically while the downward pressure factors such as dilution and selling will only grow linearly which will result in large to enormous upward pressures on the devcoin price.

My only issue is that it looks like we're paying third world country contributors first world country shares.  That will wreak havoc on the system in a matter of months.  I hope there's a plan to pay a triple the national average salary (which is generous, i wish i could get triple the national averafe here) in those countries which is generous and will help stem abuse, poor contributions and a mass exodus of educated top notch first world country talent.  

One other thing that happens when you pay a 3rd wold country person a full to 2 years of wages in a single month is that he will undoubtably dump it all on the market cause he's never seen anything like it and knows something that good will never last and word of mouth will spread and the damage will be near instant.  It's like deccoin giving us $50,000-$80,000 worth of real dollar coins for 1 month of programming or working. Who wouldn't sell it all, for many it's life changing money?  That's how it is in 3rd world countries, I know I lived there for many years.

So besides the destruction of total share value a secondary negative effect caused by paying 3rd world countries equal shares will be a sudden and massive implosion of the devcoin price.  Where in America, Germany, etc even $3,000 in a month of wages is not a lot to most and at worst most would only sell a portion and in many cases like mine, since I can pay my bills in other ways, I won't sell any coins.  

So 3rd world country people who desperately need the money would most always dump all their coins which would further drops the price of devcoin. This is the second reason share payouts in 3rd wold countries should be generous but in line with their national average incomes and cost of living there.

I'm seeing devcoin has already gone global so I hope they have a fair and sound business solution for this.  It might sound unfair but these countries also have, for the most part, also 1/10th the cost of living expenses to go with the 1/10th the income of the US, and any person there would feel lucky to sit at home and make 2-3 times the national average instead of digging ditches or weighing tables with a computer science degree.  

Let's keep our compassion in check and do this thing right.  Devcoin is the first real CryptoStock in the world and I'd hate to see poor yet simple decisions destroy this beautiful thing which is, I believe, on the brink of catching global fire and really taking off.  How many remember what a logarithmic graph looks like from high school?  Think Hyperbole!!!!  It's a short lived and rare phenomenon which can make people very rich and I think the situation and factors for devcoin are all near set up but one major miscalculation could prove a huge setback.  

This type of success is truly possible with devcoin and soon, it could start in 3-6 months, but we have to keep good top notch content coming and I suggest unthinkingbit et al putting some system in place to first warn then potentially fire people who don't rightfully earn their coins with good service and or content.  This system is new and like all new systems it's ripe for abuse.

 I realize by saying this I could get myself fired as I'm not a pro writer although I try to do a large variety types of articles since I don't know what works - if short, long, music, politics, green energy, economics, conspiracy theories, or poetry works best, given the vast and diverse US population, so until we get the page counter going I tried to hit on all of the above.  I'm trying to cover the occasional reader up to the millions of college students looking for long research papers - just one of the research papers I wrote was 36 pages and I have no way of knowing if all that labor was worthless and if a few much shorter articles on Michael Jackson and Prince would bring in 10 times as many readers.  

so for all i know i may be one of the ones who deserves to be put on notice or fired but there should be a protocol for this for the sake of all the good and great contributors.  At any rate, Fair Quality control with steps for disciplinary action up to termination has to be put into effect ASAP to stem abuse and what would result in a real and effective theft of shares from everyone else.  

Besides the argument of coin dilution, ad nauseum, this is another major issue that has been on my mind so I hope, like the coin printing issue, devcoin management has some kind of plan in the works.

Regards,

Vlad

Fair enough.

Hey, Don!  Finshaggy, I've been on a domain name binge and I just bought one you and I may find helpful.

FREECRYPTOCASH.COM

THE coin version and token version were taken. I'm thinking if we're gonna give away devcoins and maybe later on other coins why not do it on our own site. The masses always flock to free. And maybe we'll get donations by people who want to propagate their coin's awareness and good will.

I don't know what kind of traffic one needs to draw to make a few $K per month but there's no better way than a site that tells you where to go to get free crypto cash and even get it there.

We can also use it as a site directing people on how to better mine and earn devcoins, it tooke a month of research to find this stuff out.

What do you think?


Edit:  I just also added 1stopCryptoShop.com and OneStopCryptoShop.com.  That way we can more than give away free coins but also sell anything from hardware, software, gear and coins themselves. 

I agree Mark that a limited coin is flawed eseocially at 21 million.  I don't disagree with printing more money but it should be less or using demurrage.  Something to keep the billions from growing while the price is imploding.

I agree a lot with what luckybit says but I also think the way bitcoin, once a token, now a coins currency simply because its in demand, devcoin can too follow that route but it would take many adopters.  And if what he says its true and we have hundreds and soon thousands of workers in third world countries then yes, it will destroy the plan cause most 1st world countries will not work for a small share that's only worth maybe $10, while over there that's a good wage but I doubt the content will the same quality there which is why I suggested more like a .25 share for third world countries to keep the businessplan from unraveling.

I also like his idea of devcoins not in use for an X amount of to auto destruct.  That's brilliant as it limits the total numbers and it creates massive money volatility which would then put an upward pressure on the price as people will only hold on so long before selling the coins. Maybe a clause saying once sold the shares clock starts again but up to a limited amount of time to prevent abuse from clever guys with 10 different wallets.

Luckybit,

Can you give me a quick answer to a couple questions for which I cannot find any good answer.  This is relevant to the value and future of tokens such as devcoin which is why I'm asking it here and not in PM.

1) Since you cleared these are tokens which does change a lot with my own personal theories I'm hoping you can add some color to what I've been searching for.

2) What's your take on the incredibly stable bitcoin token, an utterly worthless video game token showing incredible strength and price stability at well above $120.  From an econ point of view it's not possible for this length of time so maybe you can add some new perspective.  I firmly believe the natural forces exacerbated after a few weeks and it is now being propped up, but for what purpose, by artificial means....but who and for what purpose, again?

3)  These tokens are known about by maybe 1% of the population, and I mean, known as in knowledge not some quick thing they heard on channel 12 news.  So it's only a matter of time before awareness explodes and goes logarithmic and depending the number of tokens on the market at the time most if not all coins can stand to gain massive price appreciation, especially one such as devcoin which has a large following.  What's your take on this theory of mine and the possibility of it actually happening in my timeframe of 6-18 months or so?

4) Tokens are different than money but I think from the physics and economics point, such as supply and demand, velocity of money, turn over rate, etc,. these tokens should behave closely to the same model as money since in essence they can be treated as fiat money at some point so then their price can appreciate based on the same theories which govern the current market value of any fiat currency.  What's your take on that and perhaps a timeframe?

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Vlad

Incredibly interesting and thought provoking take.  I've never thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense when you consider it a token.  I also fully agree with your conclusion, and also something must be done about the infinite print protocol in place now or else devcoin is doomed.  And unless devcoin is simply a stepping stone for some people then I'd suggest something be put in place soon before competition heats up and I expect that to happen very rapidly.

Luckybit, may I ask what you do or what you went to school for?  Cause I'm  impressed with your very different and insightful point of view.  TIA

Finshaggy, definitely add IXcoin as its identical to bitcoin, except it fully matures much sooner, with only a max of 21 million coins when it fully matures much earlier than bitcoin, in 2015 I think.

Ixcoin shouldn't be at 1 penny while other coins with 15 times as many coins like feather coin (380 Million coins) sells for 10 to 12 times more.  The only reason it's cheap is cause the developer premined like 580,000 coins but he's gone so ixCoin should be valued in line with other coins.

Edit:  finshaggy, add in the devcoin video that devcoin is "arguably" the most widely held global digital currency and it is the first real CryptoStock which has now turned from a pure digital currency into a real and growing business with paid employees all over the world and growing revenues while no other digital currency that I could find is even talking about a business plan or employees working to bring it awareness and revenues.  That is a major selling point as it adds real value to an otherwise worthless crypto coin.

This is nothing.  I've been doing research and apparently it's relevantly easy to start your own coin.  Success is not that easy but your own coin is not difficult as "Santoshi" did the math and physics part, which was the brilliant and difficult part.  

Now one just copies the bitcoin client, tweaks it, writes some new code for I forget which part and releases it.

Therefore I predict we will go from today's dozen or so coins on Vircurex to at least 100 in the next 12 months and it could get as high as 300 within 2 years.

The good:  lots of coins to mine for next to free if you have a good rig.  And also, each new coin makes improvements by building and improving on the flaws and strengths of the latter and thus eventually a near flawless, new super digital coin will be born which will give rise to true and efficient digital currencies and real cryptostock model, although in the end only a handful will survive as is the case in any new industry.

But this is all digital so it won't take 40 years but more like 2-5 years. Which in turn means millions can be made at "digital" speeds, speed of light, and I mean that quite literally.  There has never been anything like this where millions will be made in a matter of weeks or months by those who got in early and have the nerves of steel to not sell for that key $100,000 where most people feel rich and pull the trigger.

The bad:  it will be very hard to pick the next winner as time goes on and the field gets littered and so devcoin has a small window of opportunity in which to get noticed, get ahead and show it has an actual business plan, something no other digital currency has right now, thus, making it the first true CryptoStock.  

And as far as that goes the guys running devcoin are making all the right moves, especially given their very limited budget.  Imagine devcoin with a fraction of the value of bitcoin, it would take over the planet with its current business plan.

And if real investors (wallstreet) ever get the taste for blood in their mouths for cryptostocks, you can bet they'll first accumulate devcoin and then do what wallstreet does best, pump it and spin it into an oblivion of riches most on these boards have never dreamed of.  

Hold your devcoins as long as you can as I see things turning and changing very quickly and it should start to appear evident in the next few months, 3-6 months is my feeling.

Good luck!

Regards,

Vlad

WeisoQ, I see your points and I agree.  Check your inbox.

Good luck.


Edit:  I wanna add a few important and relevant points about the value of fiat currencies, for anyone who followed the economics exchange between weisoq and myself.  He is looking at money from a practical point of view which is in a way correct as 99% of people do buy assets with their money so then who cares if the dollar has lost 97% of its value.  I'm being more scientific and textbook about it which has its place as well.

That said, I want to quickly add that fiat money is driven by a lot more than supply and demand.  Money behaves a lot like the laws of physics.  It has inertia, velocity, speed, rate of change, turnover rate, etc., which, the latter, is increased by velocity.  That said, the current dilution is only one factor and the good part is that it is a linear factor.  

While the other factors at play which have an upward pressure on a fiat currency's price or value such as awareness, adoption rate which lead to a much higher velocity of fiat money (devcoin) and in turn should lead to a much higher turnover rate and all of these upward pressure variables are starting manifest and soon these factors should see exponential growth and I think it will soon, within months, turn to logarithmic growth by a factor of 10 or more.  So then the upward pressures (such as increased demand, velocity and turnover rate) should soon be obvious on the value of devcoin (and a few other coins) and should far outweigh the downward pressures which may be dilution or constant selling by miners.  

And if that holds true we should see a large to potentially enormous upward pressure on devcoin and a number of other coins.  I hope this turns out the way I see it since I do plan to hold all my devcoins for at least 1 year.

Good luck to everyone and thanks for the exchange, weisoq.

Regards,

Vlad

This is a complex situation and I'm not sure that's the best answer, at least not in the short term.

Absolutely untrue. In 1933 we went off the gold standard (partially) at which point it was illegal to own gold until 1979. In 1971 Nixon took us completely off the gold standard.

The fact you're throwing stocks and gold only muddies the water. Stocks, Gold, houses, etc are real assets and thus rise with inflation. Gold and houses are at 0% growth, they have kept up cent for cent with inflation while stocks, as you point out have outperformed and that's because stocks unlike houses and especially gold grow on their own.

But all of This has zero to do with fiat currencies.  Zero to do with the absolute FACT the dollar is down 97% since 1933.

So your answer is to spend every DEVcoin, like every dollar, the moment you get it to keep it from going to zero, at least for yourself. Is that what you're doing with all your devcoins? I'm keeping all mine and if your answer to inflation and devaluation is to call savers stupid for now having only 3 cents for every 1933 $1 dollar that's not exactly a good argument in favor of fiat currencies.

I'm not talking out of my ass here, this isn't opinion, it's history and economic facts. I have a 3.8 GPA degree in Econ and another in Finance. I invite rebuttals but at least do a little research.

With the exception of temporary exuberance where demand can temporarily outstrip supply and then you may get a ridiculous and temporary increase in value like you now see in bitcoin, fiat currencies which are not backed by anything, which includes ALL crypto-currencies, if printing continues ad nauseum, even one with earnings like Apple's would eventually and absolutely approach zero towards infinity, let alone one with little or no earnings.

What I am telling you is as sure and proven as the law of gravity.

Regards,

Vlad

Mark, you are right but one has to keep in mind many of these developers need the money which is the reason they get this generous help from devcoin so they in turn will sell these coins, at least a portion of them.

It's a simple supply and demand equation here, just like in stocks and other fiat currencies, the more you  print the more worthless it will eventually become. 

This has been a slow effect with devcoin as it has been generous in spreading the wealth around which is good because there's no coin out there that has such a global audience.

But there has to be a limit or eventually devcoin will simply lose all of its value.  The dollar is backed by a central bank, the most powerful military the world has ever seen and supposedly massive amounts of gold and it has, thus far, since 1933, lost 97% of its value because of excessive printing.  Devcoin is not backed by anything, much like the Euro I might add.  Therefore, It is only a matter of time before constant printing of devcoins will take the value farther and farther towards absolute zero. 

In the short run I understand the need to print more devcoins but there must be a long-term plan if devcoin is to survive.

I was the one who lost 1,000,000 devcoins in a cut and paste mistake.  DO NOT ever cut and paste anything to do with your wallet.  Do NOT ever delete anything from your wallet no matter how small the file is.  CUTTING deletes the smaller .dat files which for some reason stay open and thus cannot be transferred.

But I too installed the new client with marticps' new green D design and when you install a new client it doesn't hurt your old wallet.  So anybody who has the old client with the Bitcoin logo up top you're missing out on a much better client, where you can encrypt your wallet. 

So install this new verision and it doesn't matter if it's 32 bits per twobits I think it was, it will work fine on 64bit windows and macs as my computers are 64 bit and I've had no issues. 

You'll know you have the new client by the new gree Atari looking D in the upper left hand corner.

That's exactly what I did today in case something happens.  I think its block 93,000. Give or take 500.  So like 2 weeks, maybe a little longer.  Good luck.

You can't be serious.   Come on man. They already took nearly a grand out of my account.  How can they take the money, spend it and not ship anything.  The big rig or mini 1,500GH rig that thing is getting redesigned cause it gets so hot and eats so much that instead of 1,500GH they have to remove 2/3rd of the chips or ship 3 500GH units in place of 1.

So those mini rigs are getting redesigned which I think its minimum 6 months if not a year but they're shipping the small 5GH units although only like 30 units.

From what I've read the problem is they promised 1watt per GH/s which is just possible.  They're getting from 6 to 10 watts.  I say who cares.  Ship me what you've got.  If they just understand people are ok with 10 watts per 1GH cause it sure beats 400 watts per 1GH which is what I was getting my dual 7850 desktop, they'd just ship those suckers now.  I hope they're gonna come out by July but its not looking good.  They haven't even answered my emails as to what the timeline is looking like.

You know, this crossed my mind as well.  What's to stop a disgruntled writer who's maybe getting the boot from going through all those articles and in a matter of minutes destroying everything or making it so mumbo jumbo that they're impossible to read.  Something really needs to be done about it the way you suggest.  man, I wish I had more coins, I'd help by putting up some devcoins - if everybody pitches in on necessary projects like this these types of projects will get done in no time. 

Or come to think of it, even a competing coin can get in here just to cause mayhem.  It would really be very easy to do.  Thanks for bringing this up, it should be moved up on top of the bounty list.