Devcoin

[FinShaggy]

Can the developer please complement on this? If you say it's a 21 billion cap, then why does the source code have no limit?

21 Billion is the cap on a WALLET, when me and the other people were discussing it on the other thread we were mistaken.
You can find out how many coins are out by looking at the Block explorer

A 'wallet' has no meaning in the protocol
Address? Client?

Well then I have no idea what the guy was looking at that said 21,000,000,000 I don't understand code, or even know where to look for crypto coin codes.

[FuzzyBear]

The were no objections to the windows bounty doubling:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1776730#msg1776730

the original bounty is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1358839#msg1358839

so it is doubled from 6 shares to 12 shares. A 6 share bounty has been sent out to K1773R, so a top up of 6 will be sent. The remaining bounty is 6 shares.

The windows bundle works, the problem is that people are having difficulty installing it and getting it to bootstrap the receiver files. So the remaining windows bounty is now for improved installation and/or bootstrapping, maybe an installer could be made which installs devcoin-qt and devcoind, and makes copies over the receiver files to the correct place or something like that. There's no point in making another windows devcoin exe, since that part already works.

Has this been awarded to twobits for his devcoin windows install? seems his install meets all the requirements for the bounty but the bounty is still up on the current bounty page?

Many thanks

FuzzyBear

[FuzzyBear]

Hello,

It has been brought to my attention that http://devcoin.org/ is linking people to the old windows bundle and download, not the really good uptodate current ones that twobit has done.

These NEED to be changed as a matter of urgency as devcoin has taken off and everyone needs to be using the one click install clients that twobits has spent much time doing so well.

Many thanks

FuzzyBear

Which one should be used now? The one I have is from December 4th, 2012. It is 0.3.24-BETA and still has the "Bitcoin" logo, name in the title bar and name in the "Information" popup.

I'm on Windows and just downloaded this a few days ago.

Yup this is a classic example where the WRONG client is being used... you should use the links listed on the page here.. http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing

but for ease:
Windows
-exp installer version https://www.box.com/s/crfmuuhe0f32w5g4nt4i

Linux
linux gui 64 bit https://www.box.com/s/kv06p8c9mc98ck4r97e1
devcoind linux 64 https://www.box.com/s/uuezs2d5mro1ltiwgvke

MacOS
osx https://www.box.com/s/ntna8dibxek351s42fxu

[markm]

Is Devcoin going keep creating coins forever? Why's there no limit despite there being a mentioning of one in earlier versions? How can we create value if there's just an unlimited supply pumping out?

90% of the coins pumped out go to support development of free open source stuff.

As long as that stuff ends up worth something, surely value is being created?

-MarkM-

[markm]

Can the developer please complement on this? If you say it's a 21 billion cap, then why does the source code have no limit?

It is not a cap, it is a limit on the total any one 64 bit integer variable is allowed to have, so that we do not blow out the limits of what can be stored in 64 bits. That is all.

-MarkM-

[weisoq]

Hello,

It has been brought to my attention that http://devcoin.org/ is linking people to the old windows bundle and download, not the really good uptodate current ones that twobit has done.

These NEED to be changed as a matter of urgency as devcoin has taken off and everyone needs to be using the one click install clients that twobits has spent much time doing so well.

Many thanks

FuzzyBear

Which one should be used now? The one I have is from December 4th, 2012. It is 0.3.24-BETA and still has the "Bitcoin" logo, name in the title bar and name in the "Information" popup.

I'm on Windows and just downloaded this a few days ago.

if you're using the wallet or have given address out for anything important, remember to copy wallet.dat before you delete old version
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129563.msg2163599#msg2163599

[ranlo]

Hello,

It has been brought to my attention that http://devcoin.org/ is linking people to the old windows bundle and download, not the really good uptodate current ones that twobit has done.

These NEED to be changed as a matter of urgency as devcoin has taken off and everyone needs to be using the one click install clients that twobits has spent much time doing so well.

Many thanks

FuzzyBear

Which one should be used now? The one I have is from December 4th, 2012. It is 0.3.24-BETA and still has the "Bitcoin" logo, name in the title bar and name in the "Information" popup.

I'm on Windows and just downloaded this a few days ago.

if you're using the wallet or have given address out for anything important, remember to copy wallet.dat before you delete old version
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129563.msg2163599#msg2163599

Thanks! When I installed the new version it read the other wallet file just fine without having to delete anything.

[weisoq]

Thanks! When I installed the new version it read the other wallet file just fine without having to delete anything.

Cool. Somebody previously managed to lose theirs in a cut, paste, overwrite mashup somehow, so just had to check.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Spoken (and thought out) like a real 'murican!

Spoken like a truly uneducated ignorant soft hearted liberal.

If devcoin pays third world country writers and programmers, whose cost of living is 1/10th below 1st world countries such as the US, Germany, France, etc, the same amount as first world contributors what do you think will happen in under 6 months?  It's a simple math problem a child could solve.  The shares will shrink to the point where first world contributors will get something like what a 3rd world contributor should get, $300 to $500 per month.

And at that point how many people in the best educated countries, like America and Germany do you think will continue to work and contribute to devcoin?  That's right, maybe 1/10th, and which 1/10th?  The lower 1/10th which arguably have the least amount of talent which means the content which devcoin puts out will degrade in a swift, violent manner and in correlation with the decline in share value.  

It's a statistical fact that an American programmer can produce at a rate of 5-10 times of an Indian programmer, which by the way are excellent programmers, as I have friends who are pro programmers and they say this is the only reason they still have jobs.  And if the average wage in those countries is $150 why would an ignorant fellow like yourself get offended if I say we should pay them extra, $300-$500?

And I am no Morico, I am Romanian and I would gladly and joyfully love to see my fellow brothers there make that much money from their computers at home.  But if this is not done with some brains (and educated thought) devcoin will quickly lose its best and most productive talent, especially programmers and English writers, which coincidentally, and FACTUALLY, live in first world countries where the education is hands down the best money can buy.

This lesson is on me.  You're welcome.

Regards,

Vlad

[Vlad2Vlad]

Thanks! When I installed the new version it read the other wallet file just fine without having to delete anything.

Cool. Somebody previously managed to lose theirs in a cut, paste, overwrite mashup somehow, so just had to check.

I was the one who lost 1,000,000 devcoins in a cut and paste mistake.  DO NOT ever cut and paste anything to do with your wallet.  Do NOT ever delete anything from your wallet no matter how small the file is.  CUTTING deletes the smaller .dat files which for some reason stay open and thus cannot be transferred.

But I too installed the new client with marticps' new green D design and when you install a new client it doesn't hurt your old wallet.  So anybody who has the old client with the Bitcoin logo up top you're missing out on a much better client, where you can encrypt your wallet. 

So install this new verision and it doesn't matter if it's 32 bits per twobits I think it was, it will work fine on 64bit windows and macs as my computers are 64 bit and I've had no issues. 

You'll know you have the new client by the new gree Atari looking D in the upper left hand corner.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Is Devcoin going keep creating coins forever? Why's there no limit despite there being a mentioning of one in earlier versions? How can we create value if there's just an unlimited supply pumping out?

90% of the coins pumped out go to support development of free open source stuff.

As long as that stuff ends up worth something, surely value is being created?

-MarkM-

Mark, you are right but one has to keep in mind many of these developers need the money which is the reason they get this generous help from devcoin so they in turn will sell these coins, at least a portion of them.

It's a simple supply and demand equation here, just like in stocks and other fiat currencies, the more you  print the more worthless it will eventually become. 

This has been a slow effect with devcoin as it has been generous in spreading the wealth around which is good because there's no coin out there that has such a global audience.

But there has to be a limit or eventually devcoin will simply lose all of its value.  The dollar is backed by a central bank, the most powerful military the world has ever seen and supposedly massive amounts of gold and it has, thus far, since 1933, lost 97% of its value because of excessive printing.  Devcoin is not backed by anything, much like the Euro I might add.  Therefore, It is only a matter of time before constant printing of devcoins will take the value farther and farther towards absolute zero. 

In the short run I understand the need to print more devcoins but there must be a long-term plan if devcoin is to survive.

[weisoq]

I don't want to be completely boring here but no, fiat currencies are backed by debt. You mean 1913 I guess but the 97% meme is nonsense really, a dollar has to be spent on something not put under a mattress for 100 years. For example since 1913 a dollar put into stocks has outperformed a dollar put into the equivalent of a constant maturity US government 10 year bond, which has in turn actually outperformed a dollar put into gold. Point is it’s not about printing, but backing (edit: at least until 2010 when I had to check that for myself, probably still true).

The supply/demand point - of course, but where is the intersection between supply and demand in an electronic currency with a limited supply, a replicable blockchain and resulting deflation and rising real interest rates. I think at best one sees evolution into niche currencies for niche groups or demographics, at worst price tends towards 0. But an electronic currency with a steady yet forecastable supply, a community of supporters, users, real loans may evolve into an actual transaction means and facilitates forward economic value through stability once a clearing value is found following increasing take-up. Scarcity only works if it's genuine, not if it's replicable.

[FinShaggy]

Bitcoin Town!!!!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216139.0

[Praxis]

To writers: how much do you get paid per word, on average for writing on devtome? How often do you get paid? Just to get an idea.

[FinShaggy]

To writers: how much do you get paid per word, on average for writing on devtome? How often do you get paid? Just to get an idea.

This past round each share was over 300,000 coins.

[jasinlee]

No replies, so I just went ahead and updated to the "experimental" version on devcoin.org.

[weisoq]

To writers: how much do you get paid per word, on average for writing on devtome? How often do you get paid? Just to get an idea.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1890430#msg1890430

The coins per share is 180 million divided by the number of shares. In round 21 there were 29 shares, so each share was worth 180,000,000 dvc / 29 = 6,206,897 dvc, at the prices of the time that was 500$:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1640919;topicseen#msg1640919

In round 22 there were 125 receiver lines, so the average generation share was worth 180,000,000 dvc / 125 = 1,440,000 dvc, at the prices of the time that was 198$:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1815405;topicseen#msg1815405

In round 23 there were 501 receiver lines, so the average number of devcoins per share is 180,000,000 dvc / 501 = 359,281 dvc, at the prices of the time that was 76$:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg2226293#msg2226293

I don't know how many shares there will be in round 24 until they're calculated, around June 10. Since there are more writers now than there were in round 23, there will almost certainly be more shares. If for example there are 900 shares in round 24, each share would be 180,000,000 dvc / 900 = 200,000 dvc.

While the number of shares varies a lot, their dollar value stays in a narrower range because if the value goes high, many new writers will join, diluting the share in the next round. If the value goes down, some authors won't bother writing, reducing the number of shares next round. Devcoin shares have varied between 50$ and 500$. When the shares were worth 50$, usually only Mark and I wrote. When the shares were worth 500$ in round 21, the next round there were twelve writers.

To a small extent it also works the other way, if a lot of authors write, devtome will be more popular and investors will bid devcoin up a bit.

The value of the share can not be guaranteed, but for the next few months it looks like it will be over 150$ 50$.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I don't want to be completely boring here but no, fiat currencies are backed by debt. You mean 1913 I guess but the 97% meme is nonsense really, a dollar has to be spent on something not put under a mattress for 100 years. For example since 1913 a dollar put into stocks has outperformed a dollar put into the equivalent of a constant maturity US government 10 year bond, which has in turn actually outperformed a dollar put into gold. Point is it’s not about printing, but backing (edit: at least until 2010 when I had to check that for myself, probably still true).

The supply/demand point - of course, but where is the intersection between supply and demand in an electronic currency with a limited supply, a replicable blockchain and resulting deflation and rising real interest rates. I think at best one sees evolution into niche currencies for niche groups or demographics, at worst price tends towards 0. But an electronic currency with a steady yet forecastable supply, a community of supporters, users, real loans may evolve into an actual transaction means and facilitates forward economic value through stability once a clearing value is found following increasing take-up. Scarcity only works if it's genuine, not if it's replicable.

Absolutely untrue. In 1933 we went off the gold standard (partially) at which point it was illegal to own gold until 1979. In 1971 Nixon took us completely off the gold standard.

The fact you're throwing stocks and gold only muddies the water. Stocks, Gold, houses, etc are real assets and thus rise with inflation. Gold and houses are at 0% growth, they have kept up cent for cent with inflation while stocks, as you point out have outperformed and that's because stocks unlike houses and especially gold grow on their own.

But all of This has zero to do with fiat currencies.  Zero to do with the absolute FACT the dollar is down 97% since 1933.

So your answer is to spend every DEVcoin, like every dollar, the moment you get it to keep it from going to zero, at least for yourself. Is that what you're doing with all your devcoins? I'm keeping all mine and if your answer to inflation and devaluation is to call savers stupid for now having only 3 cents for every 1933 $1 dollar that's not exactly a good argument in favor of fiat currencies.

I'm not talking out of my ass here, this isn't opinion, it's history and economic facts. I have a 3.8 GPA degree in Econ and another in Finance. I invite rebuttals but at least do a little research.

With the exception of temporary exuberance where demand can temporarily outstrip supply and then you may get a ridiculous and temporary increase in value like you now see in bitcoin, fiat currencies which are not backed by anything, which includes ALL crypto-currencies, if printing continues ad nauseum, even one with earnings like Apple's would eventually and absolutely approach zero towards infinity, let alone one with little or no earnings.

What I am telling you is as sure and proven as the law of gravity.

Regards,

Vlad

[alex_fun]

Perhaps its time to clone devcoin with reduced % going to developer

[Vlad2Vlad]

Perhaps its time to clone devcoin with reduced % going to developer

This is a complex situation and I'm not sure that's the best answer, at least not in the short term.