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141  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica on: September 14, 2012, 10:48:24 AM
Why is this being posted on the forums? It's something to be sent to and between lawyers. This is just stiring the shit.

Really this SHOULD go to court, not just for the liquidation but for the theft and for other laws broken.

To ask or even expect this jpeg to be signed before the weekend is beyond wishful thinking.

Rofl. It was their responsability to claim theft as bitcoinica owners yet they just did nothing

How do you know they have done nothing? Just because people don't post updates on the situation of legal proceedings on the forum doesn't mean nothing is being done. Also how do you know Tihane(or whatever his name is) has done anything or is even who he says he is (has anyone here even met him?)? All he's done is make statements on the forum(has anyone noticed he's been editing earlier statements to make them consistent with what he's said more recently?).

A few people have met him.

Has no one here considered that they've been advised not to speak on the situation by their lawyer or that they ARE taking action, actual action instead of posting on the forums?

Then it probably is too hard to say "We can not comment until X as advised by our lawyer" ?
In the meantime I guess it was / is too hard to post any update to mail or the website for months ?

Do you think I have not being patient sending dizains of mails for no answer ?
The only contribution that I can recall of patrick is posting trolling videos.

The reason this should go to court is because someone has committed a crime, theft, and attempted to destroy the reputation of an organisation. If you don't prosecute the criminal, even if they give back the money when caught, then that is an economic incentive for them to continue stealing, it's self defeating. Intersango's reputation has been seriously damaged by this incident and this hangs over everyone who works there. Taking this to court will do several things, clear their name, have the thief prosecuted and jailed, and have funds returned to users.

Everybody is asking for that, but NOT from the liquidator and NOT from my fund.
WE CANT DIRECTLY ATTACK THE HACKERS AS HE DID NOT STEAL FROM US, AND THE RECUPERATION OF THE FUND IS NOT DIRECTLY DEPENDANT FROM THE THEFT.

They had every right to declare a theft from the bitcoinica company yet they did not. Or did they ?

IF they did anything why is everybody in the bitcoin community except their london buddies acting like they did not ?

I don't work for Intersango but I it's blatantly obvious you guys are allowing yourselves to be manipulated, some pseudo anonymous person makes a post on the forum saying he did something (can you verify that he did?) and you all run off in the direction he says the criminals went.

How ignorant that remark is.
I am probably much more informed than you about everything regarding the creditors side.
The only thing I am probably missing is the intersango guys side, but it is not like they had no chance to give it.

When they lost the 400k$ I still remenber "I guess users will have to take a 30% loss". Not a single "sorry" or anything.

Regarding the conference, it starts tomorrow(proper, started unofficially on Wed.), it's been mostly organised BY the guys from Intersango so they have every right to be there. If you don't come (with the aim to boycott Intersango) well fine, thats your loss, I don't think anyone there will miss you and we'll go and create the future of bitcoin without you. It's already a huge success both financially, media and attendance wise.

A personnal attack even though you know nothing about me and what I may have done or not for bitcoins.
Excellent way to gain credibility on your post.

They have every right to present and organise the conference, we have every right to go and be there and make this topic a hot issue at the conference.

And wether or not you want it probably will.
142  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica on: September 14, 2012, 06:18:20 AM
Why is this being posted on the forums? It's something to be sent to and between lawyers. This is just stiring the shit.

Really this SHOULD go to court, not just for the liquidation but for the theft and for other laws broken.

To ask or even expect this jpeg to be signed before the weekend is beyond wishful thinking.

Rofl. It was their responsability to claim theft as bitcoinica owners yet they just did nothing
143  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Response on: September 10, 2012, 08:34:24 AM
In hindsight, I no longer see this bet as being funny and I think it was in horrible taste. The community members who were my friends who are standing up against this are right in doing so I and I have no place in the bitcoin community as I clearly don't take it as seriously as everyone else. I am happy to have learned so much from Bitcoin and I'm glad to have shared in many experiences as well, but I cannot discount the claims that I have some issues with manicism as there is no other explanation for my often irrational behavior. I'll be seriously looking at my life and exiting from the community with my sincerest apologies.

Mihai Alisie will be speaking for the Bitcoin Magazine at the London conference. I am in the process of exiting the company completely equity and all in addition to already having resigned as a director and Editor in Chief, as it seems the right thing to do for the future of the magazine.

Ellet's IP is being handed over to a more capable party and I will be exiting any involvement with it.

DCAO is being dismembered and the existing heads will start another organization a bit more seriously toned.

I will not be involved in any businesses in this community any longer. It is clear my immaturity is hurting the community more than I am helping it, and the position I have been in has only resulted in hurting myself and those around me. I'm glad to see that many people did get my joke, but I ask that they not defend me as even I see now that it was crossing all sorts of lines that should never have been crossed and I have absolutely no excuse for it.

I'm sorry I let so many people down that I never even realized actually cared and I hope I can somehow serve as an example of what not to do so that all of this was not a complete waste.

I will now leave how I came.


If you had no intent to scam (and I truly hope that was the case) in the first place then thats really a noble way out.
You destroyed all your credibility.

The one that Amir, Donald, Patrick should have choosen way earlier.
144  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Are people over-reacting on MNW's bet? on: September 10, 2012, 08:24:41 AM
Why is it that on these forums everytime gets scammed, stolen, or anything related tons of people are saying "ha he should not have trusted XXX or YYY, so it is obviously his fault if he lost his monies"

Come on. Thats like saying to a rape victim that she should not dress so sexy / go out alone / etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

As long as this logic and impunity goes on bitcoin will only be a children playground.

For a 1 million scam "in real life" matthew could have been sent in jail for the 5 next years or so.

And to me sorry but it is obvious that he would have taken as much as possible in the case he would have won the bet.
145  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MATTHEW N. WRIGHT IS A SCAMMER on: September 09, 2012, 07:43:40 PM
nice one Smiley
146  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MATTHEW N. WRIGHT IS A SCAMMER on: September 09, 2012, 07:42:15 PM
scam (plural scams)
Fraudulent deal.
That marketing scheme looks like a scam to me.

fraudulent (comparative more fraudulent, superlative most fraudulent)
dishonest; based on fraud or deception
false; phony
He tried to pass a fraudulent check.

Can anyone here argue that matthew did not try to be deceptive ? (and thats the best possible case)
147  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MATTHEW N. WRIGHT IS A SCAMMER on: September 09, 2012, 07:38:41 PM
How can it be argued that taking almost 1 million $ in bets without any initial intention to pay in case of a loss is not scamming ?

Sorry but all those people, matthew, amir, patrick, donald, pirate etc. are giving an awful image of bitcoin and the facts that these behavior are semi tolerated is awful as well.

Bitcoin needs one things it is trust and some form of regulation.
148  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Be careful with matthew's bet on: August 22, 2012, 04:08:55 PM
Well as I said, if you are indeed very honnest, I will deeply apologize. And I appreciate the fact that you stay civilised even when accused Smiley

I still dont understand why you did not make your topic with a big & trusted escrow so nobodies would have had any doubt of your legitimacy
149  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Be careful with matthew's bet on: August 22, 2012, 03:37:26 PM
Well I erased this post because I am not sure at all and I dont like to publicly call out on people.

Also it was private conversation but in my opinion when there is 100k$ at hand this privacy argument dont really hold.

Still, this is just my opinion. I still feel a little scummy for this "betrayal" of private conversation, but, oh well...

--------

I want to first precise that I have nothing against Matthew and that I am just acting preventively.

However, I just wanna state a few facts:

- I contacted matthew to bet. He replied very fast (within 2 mins or so)
He instantly offered me huge amount of money possible for the bet (quoted : "Since we're doing this privately, I will accept much more than 250BTC if you need. The limit was for newbies to deter scammers from flogging into my thread with 9000BTC claims.")

- I offered to bet 850 btc (whats left to me after btc fiasco) and using an escrow as this is a big amount.
He replied again instantely that he trust me as I am a friend of Roger etc. (which I actually not, I just trust roger as we both are bitcoinica's victim and his character seems honnest & mature)

- I told him that I was not trusting him for this amount and that I need an escrow. He just said that I should let him know if I ever change my mind (ie if I am willing to bet with no escrow).

- I replied that I would give him a 3rd party to send bitcoin to.
And that if he effectively trust me, he can as well send me the bitcoins from the bet.


He did not reply afterwards.

As I come from the poker world, huge bets are routinely taken and escrow ARE mandatory and JUDGES must be elected for abritraging the results. Rules should be deeply detailed.
Making huge bets without these garantee is REALLY risky. And 10k btc is not kid money.

cliffs :

- He is very eager to bet a LOT of money without escrow
- He can "trust" you basically over nothing
- He is suddenly very unwilling and unresponsive when you makes step towards getting an actual escrow.
- The form of the bet is very un-professionnal as far as big bets goes

Combination of all theses facts makes me very weary that someting scummy is in the air. I MIGHT be wrong and I HOPE I am wrong but I do think it is my duty to let others know my stance on this.

And again, if I am proven wrong I will be the first to apologize strongly towards Matthew.
No offense intended towards him, I just want to warn users of the website.

Emilien

Edit : ok he just send me that he dont want to break his cascassius gold bar just for one person.
150  Economy / Service Discussion / Be careful with matthew's bet on: August 22, 2012, 03:09:33 PM
------------
151  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: I'm giving 200% away to anyone who thinks pirate is a fraud on: August 22, 2012, 07:59:52 AM
You have to use escrow for bets if you are serious, otherwise there is no way to enforce debt collection in case either party lose.
+1

I would like to bet but I want an escrow.
152  Economy / Speculation / Re: What's your exit strategy? on: August 17, 2012, 02:28:01 PM
I ll exit when the ****** from bitcoinica / intersango will give me back my bitcoins
153  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Bitcoin Conference 2012- London 15-16 Sept | ANNOUNCEMENT tickets available on: August 14, 2012, 09:01:28 PM


It did get pretty heavy at one point, but what carried me through was random emails/PMs (reddit, forum, irc) of kindness and support. I never had something like that happen in my life before and it was very touching. Like random strangers on the internet. That was something else. There was one guy even who we exchanged long emails back and forth.

And yet you did not even respond to one of my mails. Was I not depressed enough for you ?

For me tbh, I could care less about people like Roger Ver who have a lot of money lost because they have lots more. What really gets me are the people who sent messages like "help! I invested all my money and now i'm borrowing to survive." That's really soul crushing. money is just numbers and w/e. But when it hurts someone physically, that's totally unacceptable to me.


This is really disrespectful. "This guy has more money so who cares if he lost some".
Do you know they are people living in the world with much less than you have ? Still how would you feel if someone took you half your money ?

Money is just number is an easier position to hold when you are not the one loosing the money. Do you know what MINE money feel to me ?
For me money is not just "some number". It is sweat and hard work, my hard work.

You seems to feel no guilt for the release of the database that preceded the hack.

I wanted to go to the conference. Do you know how I feel now sending you 40e now that I have lost 60k ?
154  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [ANN] Bitcoinica Consultancy abandons customers. Bitcoinica to enter Liquidation on: August 14, 2012, 08:44:30 AM

I don't believe that users are acting in their own best interests when time and time again they seek no redress against people/entities which have been responsible for substantial losses.  To date, there have been no meaningful consequences for those who've been responsible for losses of user funds - whether through criminal activity or incompetence.  As long as such losses are acceptable to the community and redress is not sought, Bitcoin services will become an increasingly attractive target for scammers and hackers alike and the losses will continue to mount and that's going to have a very real impact on people's willingness to invest in and adopt Bitcoin.


+1
155  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Will deflation be the fatal weakness of bitcoin? on: August 08, 2012, 09:56:09 AM
hypothesis : Bitcoin will fail because of deflation
--
If bitcoin fails then price will go towards 0
If price goes to 0 then there is no deflation

Conclusion : Hypothesis is false
156  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Life after Bitcoinica,,, as a creditor. on: August 07, 2012, 05:22:20 PM
Ps: How the fuck am I supposed to wake up and go on with my work/life while two year of hard work salary is slipping through my hands.  Heck it's not only 2 year of work, it's two year of work timely invested into being early adopter of the greatest project ever.

Any time you give up possession of your property, you are taking a risk.

You obviously weighed the risk/reward ratio for yourself when you deposited at Bitcoinica.

Keep trying to get your deposits back, but prepare for the possibility that you may never see it. Then all you can do is learn from the experience.


Yeah, and anytime a girl is raped they weighted their risk / reward by dressing too sexy.

Stop blaming the victim, especially when they are obvious and identified responsibles. No offense intended toward you, Hollyday.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything Transisto has said.

One of the point that makes me particularly angry is that it doesn't seem that some of us remotely feel as we do.
They are able to go on with their life and projects, while we are struggling.

Having so little empathy for your customers show very little maturity and professionalism. There, I said it.
157  Other / Off-topic / Re: oh nose on: August 07, 2012, 04:23:49 PM
Instead of posting this awesome stuff, can you :

- Give an update and statement to your bitcoinica customers
- Assert that the claims history are secured, help to finish them and work with the appropriate party to clean up the mess

In the meantime, I would not recommend anyone to have a cent in intersango.
158  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: In support of genjix on: August 03, 2012, 06:08:33 PM
Well if we should trust noone but ourselves, how can a bitcoin business ever exist ? They has to be admin, security operators, managers, support etc.

Even the idea of an exchange should not exist with this logic.

Basically at some point responsability and trust in business have to exist else bitcoin is useless.
159  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: In support of genjix on: August 03, 2012, 05:52:08 PM
Genjix has been around a long time, and his real identity and location are not exactly secret. I have never seen him be anything but nice and professional. I see every indication of trustworthiness, and I think people picking on him are hoping that he will reimburse them for their foolish losses (I never trust ANY website with more than a modicum of bitcoins at a time. Anyone who does so is being extremely foolish.)


So you are saying... He is very trustworthy and professionnal AND at the same time we were foolish trusting him with the security Huh??
160  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Email received from Bitcoinica just a moment ago. From Zhou on: August 03, 2012, 05:46:34 PM
At least he's doing a favour by returning the money. This will be the first ever Bitcoin-related hack that has the funds returned.

Good to hear Chen finally saw some sense and is returning the full 40K USD + 40K BTC

Oh wait..

Quote
Chen Jianhai has agreed to return at least $140,000 and 20,000 BTC under the condition that Bitcoinica LP will not start a police investigation about the hack.

Zhou, if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. And your reputation can easily be restored once it turns out you have been doing the right thing all along.

EDIT: However I find it hard to believe a corporate entity such as Bitcoinica LP can agree to these terms set by Chen. I don't even think it is legal. The only way not to be a thief and be exonerated is to return *all* the stolen money. Plain and simple. You can not steal, return half and set terms that amount to blackmail. Maybe you can tell Chen that. He is a multi-millionaire after all.

+1

This is as well the only thief that has been identified. He needs to pay from his pocket any cents missing. And he should be lucky not to be locked up in jail for that amount of money

ZT, I respect the fact that you care and explain to your customers.
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