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It seems kinda obvious that no one will see pirate this week end and that he will just vanish
The whole thing is a bait in my opinion, a "grand final" in some sort
Edit : if he show himself he will probably avoid pictures and anything that can trace back people to him
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@Bitcoinbulls : I deposited bitcoins, I expect to be paid in bitcoins.
Be payed in USD would be ok ONLY if would have been done in a short time manner. Else, why not in whathever currency is at its lowest right now.
Zhou, I can relate to your unhappiness. Except mine is for financial reasons. Hopefully everything will end well at some point...
And ofc there is no communication and NO updates wathsoever from the intersango guys.
How can 2 of them leave in such horrible circonstances is fucked up. And how can they not communicate is beyond me. They have depressed people here and tehre and they just leave. Come on.
@Bitcoinbulls sorry I probably read you in the wrong way. Yes at this point getting back 70% of the btc would be much better than the current mess. It doesnt mean that all is settled afterwards but everyone would be then much more relaxted and calm.
I would not tell you what some menbers of my familly suggested, they have a rather more "old school" way of handling debtors. Guys from intersango should be pretty happy that all the guys that deposited bitcoin are more civilised than that.
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Update 19th July: payments are still stuck at 38%. Considering that those are 50% payouts, that means a good 76% of the claims. That's not 76% of claimants, but 76% of the total funds.
However given that nobody is doing anything, I've been talking with some of the people with large claims. They've proposed helping take over the process with me. I suppose we need to get written consent that Bitcoinica Consultancy doesn't exist or that if it does that the members resign. This allows Bitcoinica LP to take over and hand the payouts process to us. Technically Bitcoinica LP owns the assets.
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repentance: what do you mean get a lawyer? I don't have the ability to do that. I have no savings you know. I don't really take a wage (so there's more money for projects). Many of the Bitcoin developers are not in this for money... Bitcoin is something really special, interesting and quite new.
I am part in this group This is what I suggest (and I am not suggesting "officialy" it on behalf on this group, just my own opinion) : The group of larg holder (which I am part of ) take over the claims & process. - The claims should be reviewed by all parties (with help from zhou, review by what's left of bitcoinica LP, etc.) for correctness. We dont need more scam and thiefs at this point. - Once all parties agree onto the payments, all payment are done at once by MTGOX which all parties should agree we can use as a trusted executor. No one else should have access to the accunt and it should stay frozen until then. That doesnt mean that all issues are settled afterwards as there is still ~30% something owned but that would be a first clean great step for everyone involved in my opinion. Again, only my opinion, but let me know what you think. |
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@genjix : cant you at least refund 50% to all the claim that have been marked as accurate ?
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I would be willing to do this but I dont have many credentials here except that I have meet some of the member of this forum during 2 bitcoins "irl" (davout among others).
So it is probably better if someone better known than me can take volunteer for this.
"sirk" (christian) is a good friend of mine as well and active as he is participating in the berlin bitcoin hackaton and have been to various bitcoin conferences & meetings
I am willing to disclose everything regarding my real life identity (my name Emilien Dutang and I live in Paris)
I am not sure about how we should proceed, wether we should wait for the bitcoinica official stance or not. I would like the payouts to be distributed in the fairest way as possible and for that I would like to have the info from the intersango team about who has been paid or not so we can distribute the money in the best way possible
Zhou stated that the person responsible would have absolute power and if I am in charge of this I would do nothing but split based on % of the claim as zhou has already done. Any other way of distributing funds would be unfair
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Noble gesture and I am very much impressed. I am so impressed infact that I will match your contribution with one of my own... I will contribute 5.000 BTC of my own personal investment to also help out those affected by the incident. I hope together, we can all get through this, thanks and good luck for the future!  Thanks so much for doing this. I dont know who you are, but, many thanks ! |
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Wow zhoutong. Thanks. That was fast.
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I lost nearly $150,000 one day. Pretty much everything. Nothing to do with Bitcoin. The guy went to jail but I was never completely sure if we had the whole truth. I took it on the chin.
Intersango has been a useful service and Amir has done a lot for me and us.
I do think action should go ahead as there is a case for it and it should change attitudes. But I also acknowledge it will be a shame to see the back of Intersango as they've:
- taken risks on my behalf by running the exchange in the grey area of is-it-forex (initially for no fee),
- developing the exchange software,
- working on the Bitcoin code and also
- campaigning in person at events like Occupy
I'm not defending them. I'm just saying it's a shame. These will be the next in a line of public figures with Bitcoin where the community has turned against. A sample size of 2 is a bit early for a worrying trend but divided we are and so easily.
It took a lot more work than this to turn me against the guy who was slated as spending my life savings. For a long time I felt there must have been mitigating circumstances because they were shutdown by an agency with active interests in doing so. I could see a conspiracy theory. To this day I'm not completely sure but I've decided not to break the guys legs even though he's been convicted and done his jail time. The hard thing is it's hard for me to know.
What is suing going to achieve other than finally show people a precedent that this is a serious matter and things are real.
That was me saying it in a light fashion to save egos. Perhaps I should be blunt. I could say "Screw you. Get off these guys. Let me carry on using my favorite exchange. Let me continue to receive their contributions to the code base and exchange software. Let me enjoy their work at Occupy. Forgive them and shut the crap up just like I did with my life savings."
I feel very qualified to say so because I have gone through the experience and it has changed my entire life. If I hadn't lost that cash I wouldn't be in this damn job, I wouldn't be in the country and I'd be with my girlfriend! But I know burning down the guys house isn't going to change anything.
Now, if suing does change things and get people to take security more seriously then do it, you are doing it from a good place.
But if you look in your heart and you're doing it for vengeance then I suggest step back because that in my experience usually backfires. If necessarily, find a way to do it right.
I've gone out on a limb to say this for you, bear that in mind.
edit:
There might not be any chillingeffect though. Thoughts?
Thanks for your report. I can feel your pain as I am in the same place that you were. Mainly, I want my money. I mean once I'll have my money I wont have any grief toward anyone. |
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I am in
5021 bitcoins. Got nothing back so far. I cant really contribute to legal fees right now however.
I am willing to "drop" any charges if I were reimbursed at any point.
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*** applause ***
I guess that commitment is why I trusted you & bitcoinica in the first place... Nice gesture.
However I have one minor suggestion, wait for the actual owner of bitcoinica to have finished the verification so you can send your bitcoins to partially reimburse the customers toverified customers (hackers & thief had already have a big enough part of the pie).
In the meantime, I trust you to handle this "found"
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This has been one of the most stressful situations with maximum suffering I have ever experienced. I am furious and I hope everyone involved putting us through this gets what's due to them. Karma is a bitch, you fucking wankers.
Right. Because this has not been the most stressful time of my life. I have physical health problems and need to see a doctor, but haven't had the time. On the forums I'm called a scammer and repeatedly insulted. Someone is trying to sue us. My bank gave me crap and held my money. I was borrowing cash from friends and spent 3 days eating bad muesli and cheap milk. I lost a lot of code by accident. I put a lot of work into the bitcoin.org clients page to make everything fairer, and now it will be removed, helping to recentralise bitcoin again. Electrum maybe has a security flaw and Macs have random problems. The conference needs the CFP announced soon, but I have to deal with Bitcoinica first. My health is suffering and im getting headaches. Right now is the first time I'm feeling depression, and I'm a little worried because I've never had it before but my father did. I emailed a health professional and they advised me to seek help. I've started sleeping very long, being very lethargic and apathetic. When the Bitcoinica thing first happened, I was considering suicide until Tihan said he had the funds. See how you feel. Now imagine if as well all the money you won the previous years were taken from you. FEEL BETTER ? Reimburse me and you ll have my full moral support on those forums. So far I have been quiet and trusting with everybody but I am waiting and waiting and nothing. |
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You already showed us that your funds are not secure many many times.
The money is mine, I gave you all the report, you own me 5k BTC....................................
At least give me back the 2/3rd so I can not fall into a huge depression for loosing all the hard work I have accumulated into money this last few years.
I dont care wether it is zhou, genjix, or whomever. How can you sleep correctly knowing this mess.
Especially you zhou, I dont know many money you made of this bitcoinica startup but my life is kinda broken right now, but you sold it and made many money out of it, because of the trust people like me have put into your work.
Yes i am angry. Terribly sad and angry. For months I have been patiently waiting, because hope is better than nothing, but know I feel like hope is going away/
I might quit my job on monday. I cant bear working so much so I can extract a few hundreds euros each month while I lost all this money.
Yes, my fault in some way, for trusting you, but I am paying it full price while you guys are just suffering staint to your "reputation" ? How do we fucking care about your reputation ? Act like grown men and stop sending back like ping pong your "reputation" ?
There are broken people here like me and you guys shit us about "it is not me. I hate being associated wiht this. I dislike this staint to my reputation" WE DONT CARE. Sorry zhou but how can you feel good when your loyal customer have been broke for trusting you ? Hope the money feels right; my years of work have been wasted.
You care about your reputation ? Hand your money to the legitimate verified accounts as a buffer and then take the payments from bitcoinica. If not then WTF stop talking about it. Same goes for anyone associated with this.
And sorry genjix & the bitcoin consultancy or wathever, but you were in charge so lock everything correctly so thats YOUR RESPONSABILITY. WE DONT WANT YOUR FUCKING EXCUSES like "I dislike how badly this was done".
And you even gave back some people 100% because they are friends or wathever ?.............
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This has resulted in the loss of one third of all the Bitcoinica money which has been stolen from MtGox. (40k BTC / 40K USD - the mtgox daily limits)
When did this happen? In a single day or over the course of many? Are you saying 40.000 USD + 40.000 BTC were stolen? Or the USD equivalent of $344.800,00 at today's exchange rates? If he took USD, then there was a account number that you can use as theft for POLICE ? PLEASE ? |
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If you have 2/3 of the funds left, PLEASE give me back at least 2/3 the btc you own me.
It would help me sleep at night. You already confirmed me and I have gotten nothing so far...
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I am not sure I understand. You are telling us you lost ANOTHER 40 k ?
If thats the case, I am becoming increasingly depressed.
I will state publicly that I had 5k btc on bitcoinica and thats basically a majority of my wealth, which was accumulated trough hard work...
Because I was having that much faith into bitcoins.
I was kinda closing my eyes to the disaster so far hoping for a good news but I dont know what to do anymore
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I received this as well : " ryan bitcoinica bitcoinica.reimburse@gmail.comJun 22 to me Hi, Your claim is marked as accurate." I figured this was "legit" since it was an answer to a mail I sent to a bitcoinica adress |
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In my humble opinion the activity that Pirate is doing has all the characteristics of a Ponzi.
I am often quite surprised that they are so many people that seems to think that his business is genuine
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"bitcent" is the most straightforward name that everybody can understand instantly without any confusion
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What is the "official stance" of the officials "owners" ?
The more i read this topic the more it gets confusing.
I have been patiently waiting for answers but the lack of precise answers is starting to get worrysome.
Have any users gotten back funds yet ? (and if you did, can you tell us how many ?)
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Thx for the good news, zhou.
I would be happy to put a lot of money again into bitcoinica once you have worked on it to have the best security possible. You should take some time to make sure the security will be top notch once you start the site again.
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