1@70
How serious should we take an offer from a forum member with no reputation? deposit? |
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Definitely not no religious fanatic and have some concerns of my own. However, trying to deny that their was never a plan to sell or never a plan to expand, or invest into next gen technology?
By "no plan" I mean that for example friedcat has not communicated a plan that allows shareholders to answer the following questions: - what is the process node of the next gen chips (110nm, 90nm, etc)? - what are the estimated NRE costs? - how many blades will be sold? - what are the estimated revenues for the total sale of blades? Also, as of March 12, shareholders could not answer the following question: - what hashrate will ASICMINER expand to beyond 50 (or 50+12) Thash/s ? As of today, he communicated 200 Thash/s, but shareholders still cannot answer: - where will the 200 Thash/s be hosted? (this is 1.5 megawatt!) - how fast can they expect to deploy it? Because shareholders cannot answer these questions, they cannot estimate the risk or the worth of the ASICMINER shares. I think there was a confusion as to what I meant exactly by "no plan". I hope to have cleared that up. I agree that these are legitimate points of concern and I definitely share them, but these are not the same arguments you were making just a page or two ago.. However, I don't agree that because some information is missing, that people cannot estimate the risk or the worth based on the information that IS available.. that doesn't make any sense. The information that is known has put the shares into the range they are trading in now, of course there is some potential priced in and some uncertainty ignored holding the price back. If all this information that you seek were to be available and favorable to shareholders, I suspect we would find a much different price than now... |
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So, you honestly believe AM shares are overpriced, and you are merely sharing your opinion. Fine, money talks and bullshit walks - sell your shares, or STFU and stop trolling.
Having a well argued opinion is not trolling. Why does mrb's opinion upset you so much? If it was well argued that would be one thing. mrb is basically like "nope, asicminer never intended to sell" "nope, asicminer never intended to do more than 12TH" "nope asicminer doesnt have potential past what is 2 weeks in front of my face, nope nope nope" Overvalued today? Sure maybe a little, but what are people expecting? A 300% dividend yield annually? I'm no securities expert but if this was on the NASDAQ with audited financials it would be trading at like 5+ btc and yielding like 15% max. Because they are trolling themselves  I value mrb's opinion and share some of his concerns. Same as I value the knowledge that we have some religious fanatics in shareholder group Definitely not no religious fanatic and have some concerns of my own. However, trying to deny that their was never a plan to sell or never a plan to expand, or invest into next gen technology? Man, these were the reasons i bought to begin with! |
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Are people really this dumb?
You exchange to BTC then withdraw the BTC....
who exactly do you think you are buying this BTC from? (hint: other users who will now have USD) |
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i've actually been curious about piracetam lately.. i'd take a bottle to canada..
Have you used any nootropics before? Send me your info via pm and I'd be happy to ship you one. i have not. i will do that. thanks |
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i've actually been curious about piracetam lately.. i'd take a bottle to canada..
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No actual plan. But selling was planned before IPO.
No "plan", but "planned"? Your sentence is self-contradictory. You dont get the difference? Then again... selling was planned even before IPO started. It was part of the business plan. But till some days ago there was no actual plan to start selling in the near future. This came on topic only because of the problems with deployment. Come on.. that cant be that hard... he's trollin |
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wow this looks awesome, checking it out!
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Sorry, but no. You'll have to dig a little deeper than that.
Well then show me friedcat's posts predating March 12 mentioning plans to expand beyond 50 Thash/s (or beyond 12+50 Thash/s) or plans to sell hw -> There are none. From friedcat's post from August 9, 2012: If our chips are successfully produced, all the following businesses will
contribute to the shareholders' return:
Self-Mining with First Batch of Chips At least 12TH/s in
total, that is equivalent to 30MH/s per share, or 300MH/s per BTC.
Hashrate/Chip/Board Selling Net profits are
conservatively calculated as $5 per GH/s. That roughly equals to 0.5BTC per
GH/s with the current BTC/USD exchange rate. It means that each time we sell
1TH/s of hashing power in various forms, the net profit per share will be
1.25mBTC, that is, 1.25% of the initial investment.
Self-Mining after Mass Production Unlimited hashrate in
theory because of the low margin cost. But in reality we have to consider the
cost of management (labor) and place (rent). We believe an expansion to 50TH/s
is not hard to achieve. That pushes the hashrate per share to 155MH/s, or
1.55G/s per BTC.
Next-Generation Products The plan will be discussed among
board members and approved by shareholders, because it would require keeping
some of the revenues instead of paying them all as dividends. The return of
this stage is difficult to estimate, since in the Bitcoin world everything may
happen and happens even quicklier than imagination. But we personally believe
that much more potential profits wait there.
This shows friedcat was undecided between selling hashrate contracts, or hardware. As I said, there were no definitive plans to sell hw. Though it was always a possibility "up in the air". Whatever you say bud. All the guys that have been here since the beginning know what the deal is, and the above post definitely is not the only data point. Looks like the market agrees. |
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Sorry, but no. You'll have to dig a little deeper than that.
Well then show me friedcat's posts predating March 12 mentioning plans to expand beyond 50 Thash/s (or beyond 12+50 Thash/s) or plans to sell hw -> There are none. From friedcat's post from August 9, 2012: If our chips are successfully produced, all the following businesses will
contribute to the shareholders' return:
Self-Mining with First Batch of Chips At least 12TH/s in
total, that is equivalent to 30MH/s per share, or 300MH/s per BTC.
Hashrate/Chip/Board Selling Net profits are
conservatively calculated as $5 per GH/s. That roughly equals to 0.5BTC per
GH/s with the current BTC/USD exchange rate. It means that each time we sell
1TH/s of hashing power in various forms, the net profit per share will be
1.25mBTC, that is, 1.25% of the initial investment.
Self-Mining after Mass Production Unlimited hashrate in
theory because of the low margin cost. But in reality we have to consider the
cost of management (labor) and place (rent). We believe an expansion to 50TH/s
is not hard to achieve. That pushes the hashrate per share to 155MH/s, or
1.55G/s per BTC.
Next-Generation Products The plan will be discussed among
board members and approved by shareholders, because it would require keeping
some of the revenues instead of paying them all as dividends. The return of
this stage is difficult to estimate, since in the Bitcoin world everything may
happen and happens even quicklier than imagination. But we personally believe
that much more potential profits wait there.
thanks bitfair.. i was beginning to feel "mis-informed"  (not really) |
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Sorry, but no. You'll have to dig a little deeper than that.
Well then show me friedcat's posts predating March 12 mentioning plans to expand beyond 50 Thash/s (or beyond 12+50 Thash/s) or plans to sell hw -> There are none. I'm not going digging for posts, but you should be looking about 8+ months ago. Also, if you think the 50, or even the 200TH expansion for that matter, and selling a few boards is all that is in store for asicminer.. well.. you need to do some DD. Let's not even talk about next gen as you're a little behind already.. Here I dug one post up for you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg1529563#msg1529563As of Feb 15, friedcat had no plan to sell devices. He was merely "considering it", but had no plan. I think you are the one who is behind or, at best, misinformed He is referring to that particular batch, not a company mandate to sell. The plan has always been to mine first, sell second, since day one. |
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Sorry, but no. You'll have to dig a little deeper than that.
Well then show me friedcat's posts predating March 12 mentioning plans to expand beyond 50 Thash/s (or beyond 12+50 Thash/s) or plans to sell hw -> There are none. I'm not going digging for posts, but you should be looking about 8+ months ago. Also, if you think the 50, or even the 200TH expansion for that matter, and selling a few boards is all that is in store for asicminer.. well.. you need to do some DD. Let's not even talk about next gen as you're a little behind already.. |
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friedcat had "no plan to sell" and "no plan to expand" ? I think you need to check your info
That is correct. As of March 12 (the time I referred to when I said "back then"), friedcat only planned to expand to 50 Thash/s and did not plan to sell hardware. That is what he communicated to shareholders. These 2 plans emerged in late March or early April. Sorry, but no. You'll have to dig a little deeper than that. |
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And so? 600btc isn't that much...
600BTC + deployment of additional 12TH very soon. These will basically triple the dividend in the coming weeks. And so? That alone, tripling the dividend from .007 to .021, is still way too insignificant to justify 1 BTC per share. At best you will see .021 for a few weeks... there are literally hundreds of Thash/s about to be deployed by the competition (the 100TH project, Avalon OEM chip sales, Avalon batches 2 & 3, BFL... eventually). Pretty quickly, your .021 dividend is going to fall back to .007 or so. Even friedcat himself has said he only expects to represent ~10% of the global hashrate (that means a .0063 BTC dividend). I have said it before that AM shares were overpriced (back when friedcat had no plan to extend beyond 50 Thash/s, and no plan to sell hardware). The fact that friedcat announced a plan to extend to 200+ Thash/s, and to sell hardware, re-valued ASICMINER in my eyes, but at the same time the landscape of the competition has also suddenly become a lot more active. friedcat had "no plan to sell" and "no plan to expand" ? I think you need to check your info, this is a company that designs and builds ASICS for self mining and for sale, and this is just the beginning, as far as i know, that was always "the plan" and thats why we are here. |
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Good luck with that. I will bump this thread in less than 24 hours to ask how you feel about your decision at that point.
24 hours is likely too short a time period, check back in 7 days OP will be feeling fine |
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Really nice... i think if those are auctioned too it would allow the small users to buy a miner too. But i dont know if it really will maximize the revenue for Asicminer because it looks like way more work has to be done for one single chip. On the other hand... if the real miners are too big then only few can afford it which would lead to a lower price per GH. I hope you find a balanced result. Pretty sure they can get these pumped out with little to no effort of the core team.. Design is already done, looks super simple, pretty sure there are about a million billion options in China to make these things en masse for cheap. |
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If this is gonna be sold en masse, you just militarized the user base  yeah seriously.. get a few thousand of these out there for cheap, i am sure even at 100-200% mark up, they will fly out the door, it will be a win for the shareholders, a win for the community, and another blow to BFL. |
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The order of wafers and devices are not so much. What costs the largest part of money is the NRE of a full-mask set. We chose to do MLM from the start to reduce the NRE cost and hence the total money we need to raise during IPO, but the much higher margin cost and the refusal of the fab to produce any more with the MLM set resulted in the decision to do the full-mask. Because after it's done. The cost of each wafer will reduce by ~33% and the quantity limitation from the fab will be removed.
The next week will be a little lower because we still have some balance payments undone yet, but the largest cost will only be the electricity.
This was what I was referring to but I could have misinterpreted that. Ah I see, I guess i missed that. Awesome anyways, no problem spending money for fruitful development.. |
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