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141  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-08-22] FT.com - Tech race fuels Bitcoin mining bubble on: August 23, 2014, 02:44:41 AM
Sorry didn't realise it was paywalled. This is it minus a few charts (1yr price, difficulty, miner revenue):

If Bitcoin is a bubble, it is a bubble that began deflating on November 29 2013. At its proudest moment the price of one unit of the much-ballyhooed virtual currency was $1,242, which meant the value of all the Bitcoins in the world was just under $14bn.

These days it trades mostly in a range of $450-$650 a coin and at a market cap of $6.5bn. The jury is still out on whether the Bitcoin technology will prove robust and the currency itself will find mainstream use. If the answer to either question is no, then no amount of hot air is likely to keep the price at current levels.

But even as the Bitcoin price decays, there is another candidate for the bubble label: the market for the specially designed computers that hold the Bitcoin network together and “mine” for newly minted coins.

Nicolas Courtois, a senior cryptography lecturer at University College London, has calculated that at least $1bn has been invested in this “mining equipment”, and some miners, who wish not to be identified, suggest that could be a modest estimate.

Prices for the latest computer hardware have been chased higher because investors have required faster and faster machines to make narrower and narrower profits mining for Bitcoin.

Mr Courtois estimates a majority of investors are making a loss.

“It has been a very bad experience for most investors and a jackpot for a few lucky ones,” he says. “The bottom line is that the production of mining machines was much higher than expected and advertised.”
Bitcoin price

Miners are central to the operation of the virtual currency. Linked together, they are the peer-to-peer network that confirms transactions and maintains the online ledger showing where all the Bitcoins are. New coins are their reward for taking part, but the likelihood of getting a coin has decreased as more miners come online and the number of Bitcoins approaches the maximum allowed.

When the pseudonymous Satoshi Nakomoto created the virtual currency in 2009, he envisioned a decentralised market powered by ordinary users operating equipment no more sophisticated than a MacBook. But now development costs for the most cutting-edge technology, in US dollar terms, can run into the double-digit millions. The biggest miners now run large rigs, sometimes filling entire warehouses, with giant fans to keep them cool.
Bitcoin mining difficulty

Bitcoin folklore has it that a savvy German miner known as ArtForz worked out how to adapt graphics processors (GPUs), the sort found in video game technology, to run the Bitcoin algorithm much more efficiently in 2010, sparking today’s arms race. The era of Bitcoin mining farms chock full of precariously placed cables and energy-intensive overheating processors – evocative of Star Trek’s Borg villains – had begun.

“We’ve paid between $10m and $15m for the development of our 20 nanometre technology, depending on what you include in those costs,” says Nanok Bie, director of marketing at KnCMiner, a Sweden-based miner that develops rigs for commercial distribution.
Bitcoin miners' revenue

The 20 nanometres refers to the size of the microchip that makes the cryptographical computations needed to process Bitcoin transactions and hunt for new coins.

Once the preserve of libertarians and technowonks, Bitcoin began attracting more attention last year, when the price of a single coin climbed in fits and starts from just $14 at the beginning of January 2013. Believers argued it could replace what they claim are devaluation-prone fiat currencies, or undercut traditional payments processors such as Visa and MasterCard or banks.

In recent weeks, the price has again been volatile. An increasing number of companies have won headlines by announcing they will accept Bitcoin as payment for online transactions, but these firms typically cash in their Bitcoin for dollars or other currencies immediately on receipt. This has created the situation where increased adoption of the currency can depress, rather than increase, the price.

The price weakness further narrows the margins on Bitcoin mining, spurring ever greater desperation to obtain the latest equipment. Buyers of mining computers report having to pay in advance for machines that take months to arrive, and internet discussion boards are full of accusations of unscrupulous sellers delaying delivery so they can use machines for themselves, or failing to deliver what they promise at all.
In depth

Bitcoin
Bitcoin

As interest in Bitcoin increases, US officials are looking into how to regulate, rather than shut down, the virtual currency

Firms such as KnCMiner and rivals Butterfly Labs and Cointerra are among those hoping to expand sales beyond Bitcoin adherents to investors who believe alternative virtual currencies, such as Dogecoin or Litecoin or other Bitcoin copycats, might break through to the mainstream as well.

These manufacturers are hopeful that all the investment in their industry will spur innovation. As well as ultra-fast, ultra-efficient chips, future technological developments could include mining rigs whose excess heat is channelled to heat homes, or investments in low-cost energy production such as solar power, says Mr Bie.

For now, says Mr Courtois, a number of players are willing to mine Bitcoin at a loss, either in the hope of a long-term turnround, or to support the system, or to get hold of a currency that is anonymous and untraceable and therefore useful in illicit transactions.

Economics, however, may well catch up with the whole system. The fate of Bitcoin and its miners are tied together, and the outcome will decide whether the whole virtual currency experiment is ultimately labelled a bubble.
142  Bitcoin / Press / [2014-08-22] FT.com - Tech race fuels Bitcoin mining bubble on: August 22, 2014, 09:36:46 AM
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/140813c0-2938-11e4-9d5d-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3B70dduD5
143  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-08-22] bitcoin-chart-analysis-end-trend on: August 22, 2014, 07:45:31 AM
I'd like to see some good consolidation around $550 - $600 and a break higher, to be comfortable about new longs, since otherwise we could quite probably continue to drift lower.
144  Bitcoin / Press / [2014-08-22] Bitcoin Foundation's Legal Primer on: August 22, 2014, 07:34:34 AM
http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/bitcoin-foundation-brings-primer-law-jurisdiction-small-businesses-start-members-42415

despite the rot some (more) good comes out of the BF
145  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: August 22, 2014, 07:29:14 AM
FC  just confirmed my exporting shares.
Will the divs come? Smiley
Export from Havelock? How long did it take?
146  Bitcoin / Press / [2014-08-22] Roadmap to a Mobile Future includes Bitcoin on: August 22, 2014, 05:31:43 AM
http://www.zdnet.com/roadmap-for-a-mobile-future-7000032864/

147  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: August 22, 2014, 04:11:46 AM
It'd be sweet if FC has a few of those containers bubbling with BE300's, and a roadmap for Gen4 in play.

I think you mean BE200's?  BE300 will be Gen4
Yes you're right, I think my imagination was running away with me!
148  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: August 22, 2014, 02:26:28 AM
It'd be sweet if FC has a few of those containers bubbling with BE300's, and a roadmap for Gen4 in play.
149  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Hmmm -- is this the end of BTC in AUS? !! Furious !! on: August 21, 2014, 01:54:18 PM
If you have to pay tax on BTC earnings and you are mining BTC can you therefore claim the expense as a tax deduction?
Yes, generally speaking, all expenses related to earning the income are deductible.
150  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin Wallet Security Best Practices on: August 21, 2014, 01:20:07 PM
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/bitcoin-wallet-security-best-practices/2014/08/21

Some of you might find this article useful.
151  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Hmmm -- is this the end of BTC in AUS? !! Furious !! on: August 21, 2014, 02:03:19 AM
I wonder if any non Australian businesses will setup offices in Australia to circumvent money transmitter rules in their own countries, just as multinationals now shift money around to avoid paying tax?
152  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Hmmm -- is this the end of BTC in AUS? !! Furious !! on: August 20, 2014, 12:58:30 PM
wait a minute, I might have read things wrong and my feelings are changing to , Thank goodness!


Let me get this straight, as per comments on reddit and all over the place.

I am a normal average Joe, I do not run a business and I only want to purchase Bitcoin to buy some products from NewEgg ....

I visit Coinjar.com, Cointree.com or igot.com as an Example, I then log into my account and say I want to purchase 2 x BTC for personal use.

Do these Exchanges Charge me 10% GST on these bitcoin that I buy of them? (Remember I am only a person of the street wanting to buy some BTC so I can purchase some online goods for Under $10,000) <<< This is the golden make or break question.

Yes, as it stands you would pay 10% GST. If you buy 1 bitcoin at an exchange rate of AUD$500, your total price would be AUD$550.

Well then that removes ALL the normal consumers out of Bitcoin, in all of Australia if thats how it stands... This Guys OzzyCoin on reddit seems like he says no, only if you are a business buying from an exchange you are to pay GST on it, not if your buying it for personal use and non-business, Exchanges will have to create 2 Buying options, 1 = Business Buys 2 = Individual Personal buys

If he is correct, then the ruling is actually pretty good

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2e1wpm/ato_tax_ruling_australia/

Check ozzycoin comments


Again - If normal people have to pay 10% GST just to get into bitcoin ROFL, there is no way in HELL ANYONE would be stupid enough to buy bitcoin, at the moment it is already a hassle to get Bitcoin, and ontop of the hassle charge 10% Ontop and then again when you purchase a product from australia ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Are these tax idiots dreamin or what? I cannot beleive that is the case for normal users, they basically just spat in the face of everyone in australia and said "YEH!! you want to buy BITCOIN?? OK DO IT , But you  going to GIVE US 10% Twice if you do , So suck a big fat one HA HA HA
Here's Ron Tucker's interpretation, which agrees with mine:

"The way they've chosen to interpret how it should be applied is unfortunately very stifling for emerging Australian digital currency businesses and the industry as a whole," said Ron Tucker, the chair of the Australian Digital Currency Commerce Association and a partner at BitTrade, a digital currency trading service.

"It's essentially a double GST effect. It is adding 10 per cent tax on the entire supply of the Bitcoin.

"So if the Bitcoin is worth $500 today, you'll be paying 10 per cent tax on that, as well as the GST on the service or commission fees that the Bitcoin companies may charge."

Mr Tucker said the ATO's view on Bitcoin will send business either offshore or underground.

"I've already heard from a number of our members that they are in the process of – or already have or will be – setting up shop offshore," he said.


source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-20/bitcoin-will-not-be-taxed-as-money-ato-says/5683974

153  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Hmmm -- is this the end of BTC in AUS? !! Furious !! on: August 20, 2014, 10:52:47 AM
wait a minute, I might have read things wrong and my feelings are changing to , Thank goodness!


Let me get this straight, as per comments on reddit and all over the place.

I am a normal average Joe, I do not run a business and I only want to purchase Bitcoin to buy some products from NewEgg ....

I visit Coinjar.com, Cointree.com or igot.com as an Example, I then log into my account and say I want to purchase 2 x BTC for personal use.

Do these Exchanges Charge me 10% GST on these bitcoin that I buy of them? (Remember I am only a person of the street wanting to buy some BTC so I can purchase some online goods for Under $10,000) <<< This is the golden make or break question.

Yes, as it stands you would pay 10% GST. If you buy 1 bitcoin at an exchange rate of AUD$500, your total price would be AUD$550.
154  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Hmmm -- is this the end of BTC in AUS? !! Furious !! on: August 20, 2014, 08:58:54 AM
It seems to me they are clumsily trying to force a square peg into a round hole with potentially ugly consequences.
155  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-08-20] Bitcoin is barter for individuals, taxable for business: ATO on: August 20, 2014, 07:34:32 AM
It's all over the media, but just for the hell of it, here's another take: http://www.startupsmart.com.au/financing-a-business/11-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-atos-bitcoin-guidance/2014082013032.html

156  Bitcoin / Press / [2014-08-19] Trade Group Chief Eyes Bitcoin on: August 19, 2014, 03:12:56 PM
http://thehill.com/policy/technology/215483-trade-group-chief-eyes-bitcoin
157  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-08-19] Whatever happened to Bitcoin? (Hint: nothing good) on: August 19, 2014, 07:51:02 AM
This kind of stupidity could almost be funny if it wasn't so sad. He must have put on his "Ignorant Bastard" hat to write that. One thing racing to zero is that guy's credibility and future earning potential. I don't even see how he can fall back on the 'it was parody' excuse.
158  Bitcoin / Press / [2014-08-19] Here's How 19 World Famous Financial Experts are investing on: August 19, 2014, 07:31:00 AM
http://www.moneytips.com/influencers-money-secrets

and Forbes comment on it: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markfidelman/2014/08/19/here-are-how-19-world-famous-financial-experts-are-investing-their-money-today/
159  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Start Using mBTC as Standard Denomination? on: August 19, 2014, 07:02:05 AM
1 mBTC = 0.001 BTC right???

For example...

239,26 mBTC = 0.23926 BTC ??
Yes that's correct.
160  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is Litecoin going to survive the fall? on: August 19, 2014, 03:21:52 AM
Maybe what he means by clone is ltc is a fork of btc and is technically nearly identical to it, whereas alts may include the likes of nxt or eth.

imo for bitcoin-like functionality you only need bitcoin, you don't need a slightly different coin. Alts offer something unique and thus have an entirely different value proposition.




You are right sir, this is why I buy GBP because it's a lot more complex then the USD and therefore has a higher value. Although when the Euro implements ANON v3 with it's new algorithm I can see it contending with GBP in price.

The Yen is pretty awful though, such a copy cat currency!!!
Huh? 100 pennies = £1; 100c = $1. How's that more complex?
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