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1421  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: *HELP LOST BITCOINS* on: August 02, 2016, 09:31:27 PM
Hi Shorena, when i do this, it asks me to enter my password. which i do, it then proceeds to tell me this is an invalid address.

So its part of the wallet, the wallet is just fucked up somehow. Try restoring from seed again.

How do i paste pictures in? it doesnt allow me to do so.

You have to upload them somewhere else and put the link (due to your rank it will not show). I use imgur.com
1422  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Can you help me to sign message in electrum with 2 factor authentication. on: August 02, 2016, 08:13:06 PM
Hi guys can you help me to sign message in electrum with 2 factor authentication because i am having a problem once i generate signature in signmessage with my address giving error after click sign message..

I hope someone can help about this.

electrum using 2fa? im never hear about it, im not use electrum, i use mycellium and coinbase, if you can backup your private key, maybe you can export it to mycellium and do sign message at mycellium.
Can you link me if where can i get the download link the mycellium?
Also i would like to ask if after i use mycellinium i can still get back it to electrum to use my address again in electrum?

Looks like this is for android .. do you have any alternative to transfer the address?

You simply cant sign with multi sig (or any pay to script hash) address. Your 2fa is very likey exactly that. You can export one private key and sign a message with it (electrum works fine for that as well). It would be for a different (version 1) address though.
1423  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: *HELP LOST BITCOINS* on: August 02, 2016, 08:07:28 PM
-snip-
correct, it was in my recieve address at first, it then dissapeared after i clicked save. i cannot find it anywhere in my list of addresses.

Not even here?



Try signing a message with the address. If you can the wallet has the private key for it and its just an update problem.

Here is a step by step for signing with electrum -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990345.0
1424  Other / Archival / Re: Updated Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns on: August 02, 2016, 07:57:01 PM
Table for Page 258:

The following abbreviations will be used for campaigns (where applicable):
A||Currently active
PNYC||Payment not yet confirmed
FLUX||Campaign in flux between closed and accepting
CFNP||Closed for new participants


Simple table
|
Campaign
|
Term
|
Legendary
|
Hero
|
Senior
|
Full
|
Member
|
Junior
|
Newbie
|
Min
|
Max
|
Escrow
|
A|777Coin|post/weekly|**|**|**|0.00017|0.00012|0.00006|0.000045|20/w|80/w|Y/N|
A|Bitvest|post/weekly|**|**|**|0.00025|0.00012|0.00006|0.000045|20/w|**|Y/N|
A|Brakoo|post/weekly|0.00035|0.00030|0.00027|0.00020|0.00009|x|x|10/w|30/w|N|
A|IDS Option|post/weekly|0.0005|0.0005|0.0004|0.0003|0.0002|x|x|10/w|30/w|N|
A|Let's Talk About The Future|post/weekly|0.00032|0.00032|0.00027|0.00022|0.00012|0.00006|0.00005|15/w|50/w|Y/N|
A|Secondstrade|post/weekly|0.00047|0.00041|0.00032|0.00027|0.00008|0.00005|x|10/w|35/w|N|
A|SafeDICE.com|fixed/weekly|0.025|0.025|0.018|0.011|x|x|x|18/w|x|N|
A|Betcoin.ag*|post/monthly|0.00135|0.0012|0.0010|0.0006|x|x|x|50/m|150/m|N|
|
Campaign
|
Term
|
Legendary
|
Hero
|
Senior
|
Full
|
Member
|
Junior
|
Newbie
|
Min
|
Max
|
Escrow
|
PNYC|BetBTC.co|post/daily|0.0005|0.0003|x|x|x|x|x|x|6/day|N|
PNYC|SatoshiGames.io|post/weekly|0.0008|0.0008|0.0006|0.0004|x|x|x|20/w|50/w|Y/N|
PNYC|LiskDice.com|Aug 22nd|0.0010|0.0009|**|**|**|**|**|20/w|100/w|N|
|
Campaign
|
Term
|
Legendary
|
Hero
|
Senior
|
Full
|
Member
|
Junior
|
Newbie
|
Min
|
Max
|
Escrow
|
FLUX|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|
|
Campaign
|
Term
|
Legendary
|
Hero
|
Senior
|
Full
|
Member
|
Junior
|
Newbie
|
Min
|
Max
|
Escrow
|
CFNP|YoBit.net|post/daily|0.00030|0.00030|0.00030|0.00020|0.00013|x|x|x|20/d|N|
CFNP|Bitmixer.io|post/weekly|0.0007|0.0007|0.0007|x|x|x|x|x|0.035BTC|N|
CFNP|Bit-x/Coinsbank*|post/weekly|0.0006|0.0006|0.00045|0.0003|x|x|x|x|150/w|N|
CFNP|Coinroll|post/weekly|**|**|**|x|x|x|x|x|x|N|
CFNP|[banned mixer]|post/weekly|0.00115|0.00115|0.00115|0.00115|x|x|x|x|30/w**|N|
CFNP|Pokémon Go Getters|post/weekly|x|x|x|x|0.00012|0.00005|0.00004|20/w|30/w|Y|
CFNP|YOCOIN|post/weekly|0.001|0.001|0.001|0.0006|0.0002|x|x|1/w|35/w|Y/N|
CFNP|Crypto-Games.net|fixed/weekly|0.04|0.038|0.032|x|x|x|x|25/w|x|N|
CFNP|FortuneJack.com|fixed/weekly|0.04|0.04|0.04|x|x|x|x|25/w**|x|N|
CFNP|HeatLedger|fixed/weekly|0.04|0.036|0.032|0.028|x|x|x|20/w|x|Y/N|
CFNP|Rollin.io|fixed/monthly|0.080|0.080|0.055|0.030|x|x|x|50/m|x|N|

* means that the campaign is currently having some trouble. Joining is not recommend.
** means that there are some special conditions. Please see the campaigns thread for more information.


Yes/No explanation
If a campaign has Yes/No as escrow status, it means that the person holding the funds also pays the participants. This is a conflict of interest, but shouldn't be a big problem if the person doing escrow is trusted.
 

Logs since Mitchell last updated the OP:
Code:
August 02, 2016 - Updated Betcoin.ag, minor format fixes, added Liskdice.com
August 01, 2016 - Added SatoshiGames.io, Moved YoBit
July 31, 2016 - Updated 777Coin, Moved Let's think about the Future, Updated BetBTC.co
July 28, 2016 - Added BetBTC.co, Removed ICOO, Removed Deribit
July 27, 2016 - Updated PokemonGo Getters, Updated Brakoo, Updated Safedice
July 26, 2016 - Updated 777coin, Updated Bitvest


Used the paste from here:
-snip-

Quote
** means that there are some special conditions. Please see the "Detailed information"-section for more information.

Where's the 'detailed information' section? Has it been accidentally removed with the last update?

It was removed on purpose because it creates the majority of the work. For details please see the linked thread.

Oh OK. Makes sense, it must have been a real pain to keep the details updated.

It would be good if the references to "detailed information" (there are 2 of them) are replaced with "campaign thread".

I agree, fixed

LISKDICE.COM SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1572470.0

Pay Rates:

Legendary   - 0.001 BTC

Hero          - 0.0009 BTC

Senior        - 0.0007 (Paid in the equivelent LID tokens. Price will be decided at end of the ICO peroid.)

Full Member - 0.0005 Paid in the equivelent LID tokens.

Member      - 0.0002 Paid in the equivelent LID tokens.

Jr. Member  - 0.0001 Paid in the equivelent LID tokens.

no escrow yet

added

-> http://pastebin.com/kSNpVp7N
1425  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: *HELP LOST BITCOINS* on: August 02, 2016, 07:40:26 PM
Here are the details from blockr.io in regards to my transaction:

Hash
1VVNzb5kVDSLHAsYrxCuMbKv1bSisHDS2
Balance
0.35200000 BTC
Total received
0.36150000 BTC
Transactions
3
Unconfirmed
0.00000000 BTC
Note: Unconfirmed balance is not part of the address balance or total.


this amount is showing in that hash wallet when i copy and past it into electrum open/restore wallet. but is saying it is watch only.

Yes, because you copy pasted an address. That is how you create a watch only address. If I could spend your bitcoin because I had your address bitcoin wouldnt work, because no one could tell anyone their addresses.

I have no recollection of ever creating a watchonly wallet. I have only ever used the one and havent had this issue in the past.
In my list of receiving addresses on my wallet i cannot find this particular one

If the address is not from your wallet, why did you use it for a withdrawal and expect the coins to end up in your wallet?



-snip-
so is this the withdrawl address you have set into bitbargans because this address is created last month and i think you also have its private key in any of your wallet brecause if you copyed it from someone other then it should be used multiple time but it is not.so tell me how many wallets do u have

There is no such thing. It was maybe used for the first time in a transaction last month.



"so is this the withdrawl address you have set into bitbargans because this address is created last month and i think you also have its private key in any of your wallet brecause if you copyed it from someone other then it should be used multiple time but it is not.so tell me how many wallets do u have"

Yes this is the address my electrum wallet generated for me when i opened it up earlier today.
I have around 3 wallets in total (one default and 1 that i used my seed key to open up which in turn duplicated it)

I have no recollection of setting up a watch only wallet. I have absolutely no idea how this random generated code came up, especially when it is linked to someone elses.

Now Im confused. You say its not in your list of addresses, but it was created by your wallet?
1426  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Vanitygen: Vanity bitcoin address generator/miner [v0.22] on: August 02, 2016, 07:37:55 PM
Well for one you didnt check for all possible two symbol prefixes (missed capital letters)
I did "-i": case insensitive.

Missed that :C

Quote
but the actual reason why there are only 2160 different possible address is different. There are 2256 private keys. The public key to each private key gets hashed with RIPEMD160 among another algorithm (SHA256) which has a 160 bit output. Thus the can never be more than 2160 addresses. It is assumed that each address has 296 private keys that allow spending coins from them. This might not be true for all keys as its unclear whether the distribution is uniform. Its possible that some addresses have 296+X keys while others have 296-X keys, where X is not zero.
This doesn't explain why I don't find 1 public key for every private key. This is the other way around: 1 public key has a lot of (unknown!) private keys, but each private key should have 1 public key, right?
If I run vanitygen for 1 second searching for all possible prefixes at 127 kkeys/s, why don't I get 127,000 keys?

It should. Not sure, I dont get any numbers when I run it with -k 1, but its not 300k per second. Might be the output slowing it down.



See the picture above? Its about the physical(!) limitations of counting(!) to 2256. Thus its somewhat wrong as we only need to check 2160 (which is faster) and we are not counting (ECDSA math and hashes are slower than counting). The ballpark is still correct though. In my example above I even assumed 1022 attacks per second.

I don't understand what that picture should tell me.

Thats impossible to use the entire energy our sun has left fueling the best possible computer and let it count to 2256

By the way, what is it? Some virus or a star? Further, I don't quite understand how real are these physical limitations of counting, and what do they have to do with finding a collision? If there are 10 billion Bitcoin addresses, the chances of finding just one collision are multiplied by the number of already created addresses, right? In other words, if all possible addresses were created, then any address you generated would be a collision...

Let's assume for simplicity that a search in the database of existing addresses doesn't take time at all

IIRC its a dyson sphere around our sun. Its a theoretical concept of a civilization so advanced that it can build a sphere around a sun to harvest 100% (or very close to) of its energy output.

The physical limitations assumed in the picture are the following. Take the thing that requires the least amount of energy to represent a bit in either a 0 or a 1 state. IIRC its the spin of some particle. This lowest possible amount of energy is defined by the law of thermodynamics. Now take a good estimate of what the sun can output in terms of energy and calculate how many bit flips you can fuel with that energy. The result is that you cant do enough bit flips to count to 2256. Keep in mind that this is physics and my understanding of these things is limited. I personally think I understand the pictures point, but I dont like it. Mainly because 2256 does not matter anyway and its not a good explanation without a deep knowledge of physics. Its essentially a "because physics says so" which is useless if you cant follow the argument.

Anyway, trailing off. I assumed no lookup time and no other constrains. I also took half of all possible addresses and not all of them, because of the birthday paradox[1] which essentially means that you have a almost 100% chance of finding a collision after checking half of all possible hashes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem
1427  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BEST SIGNATURE CAMPAIGNS FOR NEWBIE? on: August 02, 2016, 07:13:16 PM
I am a newbie, I want to know about the best signature campaigns for newbie?

None. Campaigns that accept newbies nowadays pay bad rates and are mostly a waste of your time. Use the short time until you rank up to learn as much as you can so you can actually contribute to a discussion once you are at least member and can join a halfwhat decent campaign.

Judging by your posting history and your current signature you will not follow my advice. Please dont start a crying thread in meta after your inevitable ban.
1428  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: *HELP LOST BITCOINS* on: August 02, 2016, 07:11:27 PM
Hi Guys, first time poster here.

I have been buying bitcoins for a few months now but only small transactions.
I bought £170 worth earlier (.353 btc)

Copied the electrum receiving address and pasted it into bitbargains send address.

Did they send the coins? Is the transaction confirmed? Can you post the transaction id?

It has been several hours and nothing has come into my account, i checked the receiving address on electrum and the coins are in a watch only wallet. (I dont believe it is mine)

So you are watching someone elses address (why?) and send coins there? (why??)

I have no idea how this happened and i am extremely worried. Can anyone advise on what i can do please Sad

i can provide all proof that the coins were purchased by me ( appears on my bank statement, show my account on bitbargain etc.)
i just need to know how to get them from this watch only wallet into my own wallet.

You cant. A watch only wallet is one - as the word says - where you watch only, you cant spend. Its missing the crucial part (the private key). Electrum does not just generate these wallets, you have to specficially create it. How did you create the wallet exactly?
1429  Local / Deutsch (German) / Re: Bitcoin von Kaspersky enfernt on: August 02, 2016, 07:08:07 PM
Es ist geschafft! Mein Leib-Computerexperte war da und hat die Wallet aus Kapersky herausgekitzelt. So wie er mir das erklärt hat, hat er in Kaspersky nachgeschaut, was da gelöscht wurde. Mit dieser Info hat er dann wieder alles zurückgeholt. Entschuldigt meine unprofessionelle Ausdrucksweise. Außerdem hat sich herausgestellt, dass die Wallet vom Bitcoin-Programm automatisch in Dopbox gesichert wurde. Ihr seht schon, ich bin ein richtiger Antiexperte. Daher noch meine nächste laienhafte Frage: Ich kann in der Wallet nicht erkennen, wieviele Coins ich jetzt noch besitze. Und wie kann ich diese eventuell wieder zurückgewinnen, bzw. auf mein privates Konto überweisen?

Wallet in der Dropbox: Ich hoffe du hast ein gutes Password.
Wieviele Bitcoin: unten links "Balance: ..."
Bitcoin überweisen: Geht nicht, verkaufen.
Bitcoin verkaufen: bitcoin.de
1430  Other / Meta / Re: why always me on: August 02, 2016, 07:00:11 PM
I laughed for a good thirty seconds at that. Greatest excuse I've ever heard. Thanks. Now, go away.
While we're on topic,what if a user has no paid signature and actually likes a particular post and should he choose to repost it in other thread,would it still be eligible for a ban ? I know you can simply ['quote']['/quote'] the post but just what if ?

Its very simple: If you didnt write it yourself, give a source (however you prefer to do so)



Anyone else noticed how hilariousandco becomes more like BadBear over time?

-snip-
Now, go away.


No, go away.
-snip-

Love it.
1431  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ransom note on: August 02, 2016, 06:53:16 PM
So what's the name on the ransom note?

zepto, it's a new version of locky

Tell your friend to contact their support. They might be willing to lower the price. They have in the past and their ... "customer" support is excellent.

If you are afraid of any repercussions, write up a small statement and let your friend sign it. I dont think you have to worry about that though.
1432  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Fake Escrow Attemp by Hero Member !! on: August 02, 2016, 12:15:54 PM
Yes, thanks for the heads up.  So what's going on here?  Someone claimed I set up a bogus escrow and received some money?  That's my address,  and it's the one in my profile and the one I have registered with the 777 campaign.  I didn't get any payments to that address lately other than campaign payments and bitcoin I bought.

It's too early in the morning for this.  Really.  I haven't even made coffee yet.

Looks like someone tries to throw shit at you.
1433  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Fake Escrow Attemp by Hero Member !! on: August 02, 2016, 11:35:05 AM
Its the same signature as used here[1]. I gave some tips on how a scammer could actually improve the message in the other thread and they didnt even bother. Please, if you read this. Verify all messages! Keybase.io makes this very simple.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1452945.msg14692871#msg14692871
1434  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Vanitygen: Vanity bitcoin address generator/miner [v0.22] on: August 02, 2016, 11:31:04 AM
These chances are really high actually. If we write them in a more concise manner that would be 6.84 x 10^-38. Just for comparison, the top supercomputer as of today is capable of making 9.3 x 10^16 floating point calculations per second (and they are now talking about reaching 10^18 flops by 2020).
You're comparing apples with rainbows there...

The values are not even remotely related to one another... how many floating point calcs you can do in a second, is not a number you can directly compare to the chances of 1billion users (who each have 10 addresses) having an address collision!!?! Huh

Bear in mind... people aren't saying it isn't possible... as the odds are >0... they're just soooooooooooooooooooooo very tiny... that if it does happen, well... that's just "Bad Luck™"

If people are afraid of this they should just never reuse addresses. This greatly limits the chances they lose a large amount of coins. The chance that it happens once is so tiny, what are the odds that you "guess" 100, 500 or 1000 addresses?
1435  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Vanitygen: Vanity bitcoin address generator/miner [v0.22] on: August 02, 2016, 11:20:56 AM
-snip-
Quote
2^160 possible addresses
Do I understand correctly that not all private keys have a valid public key?
I ran this:
Code:
./vanitygen -i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f 1g 1h 1i 1j 1k 1l 1m 1n 1o 1p 1q 1r 1s 1t 1u 1v 1w 1x 1y 1z -o tempfile.txt -q -k
for 11.345 seconds. It checks about 127 kkey/s, and found 5366 keys. That results in 473 keys/s being found, while 270 times more keys have been checked.

Well for one you didnt check for all possible two symbol prefixes (missed capital letters), but the actual reason why there are only 2160 different possible address is different. There are 2256 private keys. The public key to each private key gets hashed with RIPEMD160 among another algorithm (SHA256) which has a 160 bit output. Thus the can never be more than 2160 addresses. It is assumed that each address has 296 private keys that allow spending coins from them. This might not be true for all keys as its unclear whether the distribution is uniform. Its possible that some addresses have 296+X keys while others have 296-X keys, where X is not zero.



So the chances of a collision occurring in your scenario are approximately 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000684%

See why we don't consider collisions an issue?

These chances are really high actually. If we write them in a more concise manner that would be 6.84 x 10^-38. Just for comparison, the top supercomputer as of today is capable of making 9.3 x 10^16 floating point calculations per second (and they are now talking about reaching 10^18 flops by 2020). Yes, I know that generating an address requires many calculations but, on the other hand, someone could develop a highly specialized chip for doing just that. In fact, I expected the chances to be way lower than that, and way lower is actually an underestimation of being truly lower. Somehow, I thought the odds of a collision should be on the order of something like 10^-1000. But even that I wouldn't consider as quite impossible on a long enough timeline...

And don't forget about pure luck

See the picture above? Its about the physical(!) limitations of counting(!) to 2256. Thus its somewhat wrong as we only need to check 2160 (which is faster) and we are not counting (ECDSA math and hashes are slower than counting). The ballpark is still correct though. In my example above I even assumed 1022 attacks per second.

Brute-Force is not possible. The only way to attack bitcoin is to find a flaw. In terms of math you need a shortcut. Its easy to calculate A+5=C for any A. If you know the result C you can easily reverse the input from that. This is currently not possible for private key -> public key calculations. Currently we can only select a random private key, calculate the public key and check the result. These shortcuts will be found and when that day comes bitcoin will need to adapt. They will however not be found over night (see e.g. RSA and factorisation), but there will be gradual improvement from 2256 steps to maybe 2192 and enough time to adapt to a different algorihm[1].

[1] a sidenote: SegWit actually make this super easy.
1436  Other / Archival / Re: Updated Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns on: August 02, 2016, 10:32:54 AM
Quote
** means that there are some special conditions. Please see the "Detailed information"-section for more information.

Where's the 'detailed information' section? Has it been accidentally removed with the last update?

It was removed on purpose because it creates the majority of the work. For details please see the linked thread.
1437  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Vanitygen: Vanity bitcoin address generator/miner [v0.22] on: August 02, 2016, 10:24:30 AM
Nothing is checked, not with online wallets, not with services (e.g. blockchain.info), not offline, no where. A collision is not prevented, its just so unlikely that it can be considered impossible. Some GPU system create over 60Million keys per second, thats not possible when a check would be needed. What would the check even accomplish? I could still spend your funds.

How unlikely is this? I mean if it is today considered unlikely, what will happen tomorrow when, say, some system could create not just 60M keys per second but 60MM keys per second (and check real-time against existing addresses at that)? Wouldn't this render Bitcoin useless and worthless immediately? To me, it is always fishy when something is considered impossible, since it has a tendency to actually happen one day...

"640K ought to be enough for anybody"

I assume with 60MM you mean 60Terrakeys/sec (6*1013). Lets assume this is what a tomorrowTM GPU can do and that there are a billion (109) people brute forcing keys. They somehow manage to never generate the same keys among them. How long would they need to create half of all possible version 1 bitcoin addresses?

Well there are 2160 possible addresses and the attackers can check 6*1013+9 per second. They would reach half after 2159/6*1022 ~ 1.21791*1025 seconds or ~ 3.8619 *1017 (386,199,274,197,452,360) years.

calculation: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(2%5E159%2F(6*10%5E22))%2F(60*60*24*365) (the link breaks due to the brackets, copy pasta)
1438  Other / Archival / Re: What site pays low fee/free fee for send micro payment on: August 02, 2016, 10:15:46 AM
So I'm doing some service and paying for 5000 satoshi each, unfortunately the fee in blockchain will eat all my funds when I try to send it, you guys have any idea of a website that gives low fee or atleast no fee at all. I saw other gambling site that they wont charge fees but I forgot their names. If you can give that will really help me. Thanks

get higher payouts.

Let me elaborate a bit more:

You can use a service that charges no fee
, but they will charge you otherwise (e.g. via adds or selling your profile) and you usually will have no control over your private keys. Bitcoin transactions on the actual blockchain have a cost. You can try to skip it, but eventually it will create more and more problems for you. See #1 here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1044399.0 for more.
What service is this?

One woudl be xapo, dont tell me I have not warned you.
1439  Other / Meta / Re: Stake your Bitcoin address here on: August 02, 2016, 10:09:10 AM
i still dont know what this thread does  Huh

i dont understand
It is explained in the first page in the first post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.msg10820715#msg10820715
Only you have the access to your BTC address, so if anyone tried to hack your Bitcointalk account and if they try to ask for anyone for money or pretend to be you, one can simply ask to sign a message using the staked BTC address.

...as long as you are using a proper wallet or a good service that gives you access to the private keys.
1440  Other / Archival / Re: What site pays low fee/free fee for send micro payment on: August 02, 2016, 09:53:21 AM
So I'm doing some service and paying for 5000 satoshi each, unfortunately the fee in blockchain will eat all my funds when I try to send it, you guys have any idea of a website that gives low fee or atleast no fee at all. I saw other gambling site that they wont charge fees but I forgot their names. If you can give that will really help me. Thanks

get higher payouts.

Let me elaborate a bit more:

You can use a service that charges no fee, but they will charge you otherwise (e.g. via adds or selling your profile) and you usually will have no control over your private keys. Bitcoin transactions on the actual blockchain have a cost. You can try to skip it, but eventually it will create more and more problems for you. See #1 here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1044399.0 for more.
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