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15041  Economy / Economics / Re: FED refuses to return back Germany gold after an failed audit on: May 10, 2013, 04:36:45 AM
The gold is a lie!

Must Reads

Thinking Like "Fat Tony" (James Turk - Sep 9, 2008)
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Turk/turk_sep092008.html


Interesting quote from the "Thinking Like Fat Tony" article:
Quote
One thing is certain in my mind; the central banks do not want to see gold higher, in fact they would love to wipe gold off the face of the earth? Why? Because gold is real money and they cannot control it. They can't bankrupt it. They can knock it down temporarily, but it's still there. A paper currency can be destroyed but gold can't be destroyed. So all the banks can do is to try and keep gold from rising in terms of paper contracts.”

I guess those of us who have invested in BTC at least have some "Black Swan Logic" and are a little more like "Fat Tony."  We are not so blinded by what we supposedly "know" that we do not see the obvious.  It is scary stuff though.  It really makes me thankful that I have a small amount invested in something other than the dollar.  

YES THAT IS A MUST READ.  THANKS.

Now I stop shouting...
15042  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Average Land Rent - Free Land for the average person. on: May 10, 2013, 04:24:50 AM
I just don't understand homesteading.  We start from the axiom that each individual owns himself, and therefore his labor, and therefore the products thereof.

You can't own labor. Thankfully, you don't have to in order to homestead something. You just have to be there first, and do something to mark your claim. It's the fact that you were there first that establishes your first, best claim.

Georgism is the flawed concept that everyone has a claim to all land, and therefore, when someone stakes a personal claim, they are taking from everyone else. The problem is, they don't have a claim to that land, because they were never there, they're not losing anything, because they never had it.

I don't know anything about all that complicated talk, but I do know something I like about communism. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul_qm3Ym8-k

She could talk me into doing some redistributing...
15043  Economy / Economics / Re: FED refuses to return back Germany gold after an failed audit on: May 09, 2013, 05:30:25 PM
The gold is a lie!
I think the intriguing part of this story, and the part that sooner or later will possibly require a new future POTUS to send armed soldiers to this facility to check on, is the physical presence of those numbered bars in that facility.

Or not, and if not, there is a crime, and it should be investigated.

Let the heads roll on this one.

So, from this point of view, it really doesn't need a coverup or any politics involved.  Germany was correct to attempt an audit.

.
15044  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Average Land Rent - Free Land for the average person. on: May 09, 2013, 04:50:29 PM
George was a tool.

Your system is marginally better, but still fatally flawed, like all redistributive models.

George was a hypercapitalist - he did not believe in income taxes or giving your money to schools.  He thought unions make people less wealthy and less free.  This is not redistributive, it say the owners of land are the members of society.

 http://www.henrygeorge.org/pchp24.htm

You can listen to his book or read it from above.  

Your plan is redistributive:
Quote
The rent rather than going to the land owner or government, would go to the median rent pool to be divided equally among all citizens.
The land rents are distributive.  If an Iowa farmer rents farmland about $250 a acre on average.  Why should he get the $250?

Air is distributive too.  If I owned all the air, would in not seem silly for you to pay me $250 a year to breathe?

I am not distributing income which comes from labor or capital, i am distributing air and land.  In the case of air everyone uses about the same.  However, some people use more land than other people.

Do me/us a big favor.  Just state that you are in favor of communism/a more refined version/a better style/etc etc etc.  But don't hide it behind another layer of words and phrases or try to deny that you simply propose communism.  That wastes valuable arguing time.
15045  Economy / Economics / Re: FED refuses to return back Germany gold after an failed audit on: May 08, 2013, 08:42:52 PM
Yeah, they don't want law discussions with germans.


We are going to engage them in hour long meetings after meetings after meetings, stalling and postponing with always new annoying people like our current Foreign Secretary, for hours and hours on end.

After some time, the people will start donating just to give the gold back, hoping that the german delegations are going to stop with the hourlong meetings, protocols and talks about regulations and details. Bureaucracy knockout from Germany? Well, every citizen in Germany had one of those. I had many. There is a joke in Asterix comics from France about "the house that makes crazy people." It was in the Asterix movie about conquering rome. The house that makes crazy people is harmless against German bureaucracy.


Now I am scared, for the well being of our diplomats who are so unfortunate as to be assigned to work with your people.  Fortunately, we have many who must be demoted from the very top and so you may fight your teams outnumbered, although by dwarfs of small minds, who peer far standing fearlessly from the shoulders of even shorter and smaller minds.
15046  Economy / Economics / Re: Billionaires hate Bitcoin. on: May 08, 2013, 02:56:20 AM
Small transactions: cash is faster and 100% secure (money goes from person X to person Y and is verified by counting in 10 seconds or less, vs. bitcoin's 20 minute block confirmation wait).

"Cash is faster"?  WTF?  

Maybe if I'm stood next to you.  But have you heard of this crazy new thing called "the Internet"?

Let's race.  You send $4 cash to Hong Kong; I'll send $4 worth of bitcoins.  Why would I want to do that you ask?  Ever bought a small gadget from ebay?  Ever bought an MP3 for less than a dollar from a server that's halfway around the world.

(you're also forgetting that the bitcoin transactions can be seen within, typically, two seconds; it takes 10 minutes to clear, compared to days for bank wire transfers to clear).

Bitcoin isn't perfect for everything, and buying your morning newspaper might well not be one of its "optimum" uses; but you're seriously ignoring huge areas were bitcoin is, essentially, unbeatable.

Speaking from the perspective of a very wealthy individual, why care about such an inferior currency system at all?  This is a proof of concept, not designed for mainstream use, and needs a lot of work.  Respect bitcoin for what it is and what it proves.  Graham Bell's first telephone is NOT an iphone.  Got it?

I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise.  The lead developer regularly calls bitcoin an "experiment" in interviews.


Ok, let's race. Because your leaving out some steps, and using an unrealistic amount. What if I give you 10k USD to send so anyone in Hong Kong can recieve/and use? Now you have to convert that to Bitcoin first(fast right?), have the other person setup a bitcoin wallet(piece of cake), then they have to convert the Bitcoin back out to cash to actually use it for anything except buying a stack of ASIC miners(that will never arrive). That's easy too right? I'm sure we just missed the news about all the banks where you can just walk in and get dollars for your Bitcoins in Hong Kong.
While your doing all that, I'll walk into a bank with the cash, wire the money to there account, and they have actual cash they can use tomorrow.
Hell, I could just go into the bank, get a certified check, walk over to the FedEx office and send it "FedEx International Next Flight" and they'll have the certified check in hand in less than 24hrs, walk it into there bank, and have usable funds.

Actually, no, sending the certified check via FED EX internationally would not be so fast or easy.  But for your earlier point, I would think a comment is in order.

Your argument presumes that the receiver must THEN go and set up his method of transfering back to cash.  Why?  Why just then?  Why not presume that the sender and receiver are already set up?  If it was a credit card transaction, one would already have a credit card, and the other would already have a way to process payments.

So to be fair, you have to make the comparison not for the moment of conversion back to the local currency, but for the moment when the two parties both consider the transaction complete, whatever that means to them.  If the receiver religiously moves the bitcoin back to a currency, then that's his moment.  If the receiver keeps and hoards the bitcoin, that is his moment of completion.

So this is not any different than the receipt, say of US dollars in a country with a failing currency - one guy must and does go to exchange them for the local currency, another holds them.
15047  Economy / Economics / Re: Billionaires hate Bitcoin. on: May 08, 2013, 02:46:08 AM
If the some day I'll get to be a billionaire I'll invest in Bitcoins.
The thing is, if I do get to be a billionaire, it will be due to Bitcoins. No.

No.

There cannot ever be a Bitcoin Billionaire.

Smiley  LOL
15048  Economy / Economics / Re: Billionaires hate Bitcoin. on: May 08, 2013, 01:11:47 AM
Billionaries are going to hate bitcoin, since it is impossible to own billion bitcoins  Grin

Man, you deserve it... really!

Now that gif is pretty impressive.
15049  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill on: May 07, 2013, 11:56:24 PM
I think we're arguing at cross purposes here. For an example of what I am actually advocating, look at how the black market in Russia saved many people from starving in the '90's.
I'm certain it did just that, that being a critical function of a black market, which grows in proportion to needs.

But it's not clear how that shows what you advocate.  I have some guesses, but rather than state them, would you like to clarify?
15050  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill on: May 07, 2013, 11:48:21 PM
You're apparently not very familiar with our "redneck", "evangelical" sect of America. ....
I guess I'm reasonably familiar with that bunch, as best as I can imagine who you may be describing. 

The assertion was this:

the thinking here in the US by some, is that only immigrants with white skin are exceptable and thus "American".  The rest are leaches, takers and criminals and should be deported immediately to preserve the "real America."

Although fundamentalists no doubt differ with you on many, many topics, I do not think any sizable minority of them fit such a description.  Checking into it a bit, I do find a "Christian Identity" estimated at 2000-50,000 members which would fit the first part of the proposition.  Of that a further subgroup might agree with your second assertion.

But what do I know?  Some of us have run into a bad dude or group from time to time, me included.
15051  Economy / Economics / Re: FED refuses to return back Germany gold after an failed audit on: May 07, 2013, 11:34:12 PM

Imagine if you were concerned that the bank where you keep half your money isn't doing well and you ask to withdraw all of it.

They tell you you can't, because "that's simply not practical", BUT, if you don't raise a fuss, they'll pay you back a little bit at a time over the next few years, as long as you keep quiet.

What would you do?


Well, good question.

Their point of view would have some merit, if phrased as a concern against my actions causing a bank run.  I'd require a line of credit against the collateral, at some nominal interest like 0.1%/annum.

Having done that, I'd begin moving fund around, using a random series of ins and outs both temporally and in volume and dollar amounts.

And at the right time, I'd fuck the fuckers.
15052  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill on: May 07, 2013, 07:13:47 PM
Isn't America a country of immigrants?
Why are so many American immigrants against immigration?
It seems to have worked ok so far.
Were your grandparents all post graduates with  Phds?
- or just people looking for a better life and better opportunities who then gave you the life you have now?


well sure, when there was a better life and better opportunities here! with the exception of some inhumane conditions in some countries, we're just like the rest of the world now.

Not really - anyone who is willing to save up and reject everything they're used to and quit their $100 per month job in Vietnam (or wherever) and travel half way around the world to start a new life, is exactly the kind of person America needs.
Such people should be welcomed with open arms anywhere.

Unfortunately the thinking here in the US by some, is that only immigrants with white skin are exceptable and thus "American".  The rest are leaches, takers and criminals and should be deported immediately to preserve the "real America."
I don't know anyone and have not read of anyone, however extreme, that believed such a thing, so I can only guess that you totally fabricated it.  You are clearly ignoring the vast prejudice, typically by Democrats, against Irish, Jews, Polacks...all of whom are "white skinned", as you put it.  I guess you're also ignoring the fraction of Hispanics who are "white skinned" but hey, they are an ethnic rather than a so called racial minority.
15053  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill on: May 07, 2013, 04:25:29 PM
Tsk... you left the blinders on.

Very well, I'll state my position clearly and without mincing words.

We're fucked whatever we do. The only hope is to build an alternative economy not dependent on the dollar. That economy is not yet ready. We're getting there, but it's not ready yet. So, when asked if I would like the economic apocalypse to happen today, or sometime in the future, I will chose "sometime in the future," in order to give us the time to finish developing that alternative economy. With luck, we may even be able to keep the chaos at bay when it finally does happen.

But history shows that when a currency fails, one or several substitutes simply move into place.  What you are doing or what we are "getting to" is not relevant.  In fact, you err in thinking that a peaceful and gradual transition can be engineered or would even be a good thing, and you likely don't envision accurately the nature of "a collapse."  For reference check Russia, 1990; Argentina, 2000.  These transitions occur over certain timeframes and with certain governmental interventions (which may be helpful or more commonly, highly destructive).
15054  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill on: May 07, 2013, 12:33:24 PM
Fascinating!  Yes, printing the money will keep the booze flowing and the band playing for a bit longer!  Print!  Print!  Print, I say!  And stick with the party line!  A bit of a chore, yes, but by ignoring problems, it can be done!  And then back to the party!  Print!
Well, given the choice of kicking the can down the road again or strangling the economy... I'll take kicking the can down the road. Neither plan was good, but I think it's pretty clear that austerity would have been "less good."

There's no easy way out of this hole that the two sides, working together, have dug us into. The only thing we can really hope to achieve is lessening the impact by creating a new economy within the shell of the old... and the longer they kick the can, the longer we have to get that done.

Ha, yes I do understand the spin made to rationalize the printing.  And since austerity would mean the party stopped, CLEARLY IT "LESS GOOD".

Because, hey...

You know that partying, that's good.

Lots of countries, my friend, have gone down this path, and the results of their decisions are out in the open to study.  The general theme is the "hollowing out of the middle class", which may be roughly understood is they steal everything you got, then toss you out on the road.

But hey.

For now, how about those drinks?
I think you misunderstand my position somewhat.

Reexamine my last post, without the blinders. Wink
Sure.  Generally speaking, putting a problem off makes it worse when it's finally faced up to.  In economics, there is a theory that a an ec0nomic crisis can be outrun by printing money, simply by having growth at a higher rate than the inflation.  With the events of the last four years, both the evidence and simple math will show that's neither been the case nor is going to be the case.  In the past, though, this has been done successfully for limited periods of time.

I'd suggest a different approach to understanding the problem.  Not starting with a premise that the money printing was done because it was "good for us", that was all propaganda and lies.  Instead, start by asking "what's good about the printing for those who are doing the printing?"

From that point of view, the answer is quite simple.  By printing and keeping interest rates near zero, the US government pays very little interest on it's debt.  It's now refinanced short term treasuries into long term, locking in those low rates.  Of course, low rates and the FED buying all the papers means only that the party continues until average world interest rates exceed those of the US and capital flight begins.

Well, then.  We make out as long as there are big crises "outside" in Europe, Iceland, Greece, Cyprus, Argentina, etc, because the focal point of the media is pointed somewhere else.

Consider this - The stagflation created by the above policies does not allow for business or jobs expansion, because it is predicated upon low velocity of money.  High employment has in the past mean high inflation, and so it does now.  Thus the very basis of the argument for the stimulus (although perhaps well intentioned at the time of the first or second one) is now false.

You'r stuck between a rock and a hard point.
15055  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold is worse than fiat on: May 07, 2013, 02:54:16 AM
I used to believe in gold until i learned that its price is controlled by 5 UK gold brokers (banks), a couple of which are responsible for things like LIBOR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_fixing

Look, don't lose your faith.  After all, what would you believe in?  Gold is good, and it's shiny and heavy and women love it.  What's not to like about gold?  As for the price, it can only go up.  You have only had a fleeting moment of doubt.  We all do, but those moments are moments of weakness.  Now what will you do, embrace, and fall into weakness, and fail, or stand up strong, and believe?

Trust me.   I'm here to help you.  Now go ahead and give me all that cold hard cash in your wallet.  Here are your yellow coins.

And remember - believe!
15056  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold is worse than fiat on: May 07, 2013, 02:49:22 AM
Coins aren't such a fine idea...

I'm not sure about how well now days the absolute silver and other metal contents could be detected, reliably on the site by anyone. In past currency debasement was rather common I have understood. And it's rather hard to track various circulating currencies in such case and there will be many.

Very reliably with precision scales and a test kit.
15057  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill on: May 07, 2013, 02:45:14 AM
Fascinating!  Yes, printing the money will keep the booze flowing and the band playing for a bit longer!  Print!  Print!  Print, I say!  And stick with the party line!  A bit of a chore, yes, but by ignoring problems, it can be done!  And then back to the party!  Print!
Well, given the choice of kicking the can down the road again or strangling the economy... I'll take kicking the can down the road. Neither plan was good, but I think it's pretty clear that austerity would have been "less good."

There's no easy way out of this hole that the two sides, working together, have dug us into. The only thing we can really hope to achieve is lessening the impact by creating a new economy within the shell of the old... and the longer they kick the can, the longer we have to get that done.

Ha, yes I do understand the spin made to rationalize the printing.  And since austerity would mean the party stopped, CLEARLY IT "LESS GOOD".

Because, hey...

You know that partying, that's good.

Lots of countries, my friend, have gone down this path, and the results of their decisions are out in the open to study.  The general theme is the "hollowing out of the middle class", which may be roughly understood is they steal everything you got, then toss you out on the road.

But hey.

For now, how about those drinks?
15058  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin’s a dollar bill, with a teleporter built in. on: May 07, 2013, 02:39:47 AM
Better yet, it's a piece of gold. As opposed to a dollar bill, Bitcoin cannot be arbitrarily created.

I always imagine some futuristic type of precious metal that can be teleported anywhere in the world.
I think it like a Teleportable Beer.
15059  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin. In no way deflationary. on: May 07, 2013, 02:29:21 AM
Fiat money has been inflated by a 400% since 2008,  that is the inflation, but why the price of everything did not rise at least 200%? This just proved that inflative money will not necessary cause price rise, when majority of people are in panic mode, the money supply can increase by 10 fold without causing any significant price appreciation on goods and services, since everyone is saving

The price level is typically decided by consensus

A.  400%, not correct.
B.  That is not the inflation.
C.  Re why did prices not rise 200%, latent inflation.  Check historically countries that printed money during wartime, including the US during Vietnam.  Inflation lags the printing by a couple years.
D.  People in panic mode, you have this reversed.  Hyperinflation occurs when they dump currency any way possible, increasing the money supply dramatically.
15060  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill on: May 07, 2013, 02:23:20 AM
I have an unpleasant truth to tell you:

Those jobs? They already exist. And they're already filled. By Mexicans.

All this bill would do is make legal what is already happening.

Exactly!  And they are the jobs that arrogant Americans are "too good" to fill.  My suggestion OP, stop listening to Republicans about anything.  They are ALWAYS wrong.  Just more rhetoric to mask their obvious and continued bigotry.  Nothing to see here.
Probably wise to stop listening to Democrats, while you're at it. While neither is always wrong, they're both wrong about 1/2 the time.

No, the split is not even close to 50/50.  Anyone paying attention to the first 4 years of the Obama admin can clearly see the debates on austerity vs investment.  Repubs were wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME.  If we had listened to them, we'd be double or triple dip recession by now. Hmm...how's Greece doing?  Shocked Instead, we have growth plus a record breaking stock market.  Wall Street should be throwing rose peddles at Obama's feet because they are booming.  

Anyway, I don't want to get anymore political than we already have but I obviously agree to disagree with you.   Wink 
Good, you've picked an issue which the democrats got right. Would you like me to list the ones they get wrong? Smiley

Picking a "party line," and sticking to it, is probably the worst thing you can possibly do, intellectually. It's shutting off your brain and letting someone else do your thinking for you.

Nobody is going to make your decisions better than you. Listen to you, not the guy in the red tie, nor the guy in the blue tie. Neither one has your best interests at heart.
Fascinating!  Yes, printing the money will keep the booze flowing and the band playing for a bit longer!  Print!  Print!  Print, I say!  And stick with the party line!  A bit of a chore, yes, but by ignoring problems, it can be done!  And then back to the party!  Print!
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