However, if the pool is increasing, and keeps increasing, then your share decreases and so does your profit. It is easy to see that at some rate of pool growth you will never be able to make up even a small loss. With the current investment growth, I think the threat is quite real.
I don't think it's possible for it to keep increasing fast enough to stop you recouping your losses forever though, assuming a steady flow of players, and a 1% profit on amounts wagered. For one thing, there are a finite number of Bitcoins. Once they're all in the pool who's going to bet against us? But more practically, if the pool grows such that each investor is making very small returns, investors will pull out and put their coins somewhere more profitable. The market should automatically adjust the pool size to a place where it just manages to keep the investors happy with their returns. Also, the rapid growth seems to be abating. It's much harder to double a pool of 9k coins than it is to double a pool of 1k. I'm no economist, so that could be nonsense. Perhaps someone who knows about such things could chime in. Is this reasonable? No, you're right on all scores. |
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I don't think it will be a problem very long.
^ |
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This is why I believe people deserve the punishment in the form of lost funds.
The problem isn't whether idiots deserve punishment (they do), the problem is whether idiots deserve to be delivering the punishment (they don't). That's the problem here, that people like Sonny, Inaba, gigavps, Harnett, Kenna, Owens, Rosenfeld, Usagi, tawsix what have you fill the list to the hundred+ names made even a single bitcent off this entire thing is what's wrong. Because, again, these malignant idiots (to be distinguished from the "benign" idiots they raped) turn around and support the wrong things with their ill-gotten gains. Much more credible swindles and scams like the "bitcoin foundation" etc. |
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I was not using it as a joke, I was giving an example of an exchange which has managed to keep the mining crap out. I don't know why you have such hatred towards MP, he seems to be making decent money without your approval. Now, if only we could get him to embrace the balance sheet to go with the profit/loss statements we could all be happy.
It's out now. That wasn't always the case though. Gigamining was on MPEx as a PT. MP declared it of zero value and shut it down when GLBSE shutdown, leaving those holding PT shares in a lurch because he did not (AFAIK, been a while since I re-read the thread) lay claim to the associated Gigamining shares post-shutdown. Not the case. Gigavps made a contract, PT was constructed as "will pass along all benefits, will not do any maintenance". Gigavps unilaterally repudiated his contract, created new contract. PT shares were thus rendered worthless by gigavps. Arguably "not his fault" or "Nefario's fault" or what have you, but MP doesn't enter into it either way you unravel it. |
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Will S.MG include a balance sheet along with the profit/loss statement?
I guess we'll have to wait and see on that point. Regardless of the love affair between you and EskimoBob,
It's not a love affair in any sense, immaterial idiots just latch on like barnacles to the ship. Before him there was some ciuciu wannabe miner scammer guy butthurt that his scam didn't go anywhere. There were others before, there were and will be others after. Granted that this one is pretty funny with his notion that spending LTC to buy actual ovens rather than BTC to buy mining rigs makes him anything else than the WORST PMB op out there. "Just focus on making the waste heat, eschew hashing completely, what could possibly go wrong". I guess it'll pass, sadly, and he never got as good as Tortilla - in spite of trying for much longer. Ah well. |
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Haha spent a couple of hours reading up on this thread. Amazingly entertaining drama. Even more amazing how gullible some of the guys who got scammed were.
This post is just such a great example of the classic tell that when someone is lying they tend to add way too much details to their story. If someone is writing a book on catching scammers it should be included. I mean the kitchen door window was broken, pertinent info right there LOL.
Welcome to the ranks of people who think they know so much better than everyone else. You'll fit right in. |
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While the details may be a little off, the concept itself is useful in many places.
On the other hand you've missed out perhaps your best example possible: S.MPOE book 0, mkt cap ~780,000 BTC.
Another important and quite Bitcoin-specific point is the Cost of Book. Ie, a company with 10k BTC worth of gear (call it SkepsiDyne in loving memory of the Global Scam Exchange) is actually to be discounted with the CP risk of the op, because the higher the book gets, the more heavily it weighs on the operator. Even small operations (take Usagi's now famous few-hundred BTC lolsecurities, or EskimoBob's Art pseudoasset) suffer from the same problem (as obviously you can find consciences for sale at any price).
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To sit here and complain its the Moderators fault is just stupid. The fault lies in the people that have given their money to this company and they deserve to feel the pain of bad judgement. As I am recalling that is what capitalism is all about.
Prosperity is in general the result of the working of free markets. The one caveat to this observation is that market participants have to be responsible. It doesn't matter so much if they are intelligent or not, it doesn't really matter if they're good christians or devout muslims or anything else, but they do have to be responsible.
When some people behave irresponsibly the result is that they lose their money, which flows, albeit indirectly and circumvolutedly but nevertheless unerringly, to more responsible participants.
When a small majority* of participants behave irresponsibly however the net result is not just pain to their own fortunes, but pain spread across the board. All of a sudden you have to be very intelligent, and very experienced, and very well informed to manage to keep your money safe, and often enough even that's not going to suffice.
Learn it already. |
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Now, if only we could get him to embrace the balance sheet to go with the profit/loss statements we could all be happy.
You realize MPOE/MPEx does not have a balance sheet, at all, as it owns nothing. S.DICE was doing its own reporting, but in general it's an advantage to have asset-free BTC corps as they cut out a major risk (review tawsix' thing for exactly why that is). Right. Do we really need to reinvent a bunch of terms for things?
Bitcoin guts some concepts from classical (ie, fiat) finance and accounting and turns some others on their head. For this reason some terms will be discarded, some redefined and some new ones introduced. It is often dangerous to be calling different things the same, especially if people proceed on their presumptuous knowledge of fiat stuff and imagine the name identity means they're qualified to handle the Bitcoin counterparts (we're not discussing idiots proceeding on the notion that their recognizing of the terminology qualifies them a la Kludge & the rest of the "forum bankers" crowd, but actual professionals who historically bit a steel girder). Our agitated clay oven scammer friend is not on the list of people who get to decide which is which, how the definitions sound etc. In fact, very few people are on that list, as butthurty as this may be. The list is pretty much dominated by MPEx mostly for the steel girder point above. |
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How is the website making a 3% margin on the bets (199 BTC out of 6200 BTC), have a 1% (long-run) cut, and the luck percent (presumably for the users in general) is 140%?
This seems extremely unlikely if the most you can win is 1% of the betting pool. You'd have to lose a lot of large bets to make this happen.
The luck variable published reflects just the bets, discounting the sum wagered. So if you win 5 rolls of 1 BTC and lose 1 roll of 10 BTC your bottom line is -5 but your luck 166%. |
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Right. I was originally thinking that the investors should allow me to use their investment for whatever seems to be needed. But that's something they didn't agree to, and wouldn't necessarily agree to. So I changed it to everything being paid for from the commission, with the commission rate being adjustable as needed, with 7 days' notice. Then I left both changes in the text accidentally. The "Your investment may also be used ..." text was never intended to be published, and is now gone.
His point about GPG signing is valid however. Costs nothing to sign the copy once you've settled on something. |
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No, I mean there is nothing currently available, but there are people who would use such a thing if it existed. It is a 'potential market'.
So if there is nothing there then the divisor is 0. The market is what the market is, not what the market could be. |
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I was thinking about joining this ... but if they are breaking the law, that's a disincentive.
Perhaps we should find a way to give donations without going through a third party ...
There's this fabulous new tech thing called Bitcoin. You should check it out sometime. It would be a loss for all if the Bitcoin Foundation goes away.
It would be a huge loss IMO as well. Not hardly. On the balance of things the pretenders have done marginally more damage than useful things for BTC, and that before the recent nonsense. Most of the forum idiots here do not seem to realize that the Bitcoin Foundation is taking slings and arrows on behalf of others, fighting for bitcoin acceptance.
When you fight for bitcoin, people fight back.
It would be a loss for all if the Bitcoin Foundation goes away.
Most people here DO realize that the pretend-foundation has a chairman that's also the treasurer. Most people here DO realize that the pretend-foundation has been swindling the community out of "donations", but it has yet to publish its finances. Most people here DO realize that the pretend-foundation has no particular relation to Bitcoin, but it is using the pretense of such a relation to sell "credibility" to various scams. Like MtGox, like BFL, like etc. What some people here do not realize (and yes I mean you) is that by standing up for scammers you end up just as fucked as they are. Find a better hobby. |
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South Australia is a loooong way from Canada.
Dun be a goon. I would say there is some sort of potential market for bitcoin games, so the divisor here is non-zero.
What exactly do you have in mind, the Dragon Tale thing? It's kinda dead/abandoned from what I've seen last. |
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Lmao did you sign up Luke-jr yet? How about gigavps?
We are not at liberty to divulge this information due to our strict commitment to client confidentiality. Well what if I had run empty advertising campaigns for about a year and already spent most of the "preorder" BTC people sent. Could you help out? |
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That'd be just the point where the scam unravels. No, MPEx does not recognize any relation between Bitcoin and this so called "foundation". |
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They don't fight "us". They fight a despicable scam, in this case. |
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I wouldn't have bothered with this retarded bullshit but the idiot also pm'd me Nice try on the post to come at us. Whatever your motivation you can clearly see how it backfired........
As a service to the community, I will take the time to point out two things to this retard: 1. You posting a longwinded, nonsensical whine does not "backfire" anything. Nobody else believes you; nobody else gives a shit about you. If they did, they'd have said something. No, socks are not the solution. 2. Are you these fuckwits? Are you these scammers? You don't argue with me. Get lost. |
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From the site: Other player's investments (including the house) will effect
Should be affect, and players'. depending on whether you think you roll with by high or low.
Should be whether you think your roll will be high or low. That way that each investor can check that the list includes their invested amount,
Should be That way each investor can check etc You may withdraw your investement at any time.
investment |
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It would be fraud, the civil kind....
like, we will ship your product in two weeks when they know that would not be possible.
BFL could care less about that kind of misrepresentation since they refer to is as "PR" or advertising.
The classical term was "puffery", and it got the original Carbolic Ball company into a lot of hot water. Back when this shit was still cutting edge in fiat, cca 1800. Apparently BTC is intellectually about at the level of the realms commoners of the time. |
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