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1521  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: If GLBSE were to get shut down or dissapear... on: July 02, 2012, 03:43:44 AM
If GLBSE vanishes overnight and is never heard from again, there is a problem since there's no way to know who owns bonds.

But if GLBSE goes out of business for any reason, while its owner(s) are still alive and honest, they can share the information with issuers. What they do next is up to the issuer - the bond offerings assume GLBSE is working, so it might not be 100% business as usual but you will not lose your principal entirely.
1522  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Can the Block Chain get too big and make Bitcoin unworkable? on: July 01, 2012, 06:18:06 PM
OK thanks for that clarification. To help me understand better: Say there are 1,000,000 people with Bitcoin accounts then how many people would have a copy of the block chain (based on present stats)?
As many as are required to keep the network decentralized. I'd say 3,000 is enough, but it's possible to make do with less.

I'm definitely getting the sense from the various answer there actually is a problem in the Bitcoin architecture i.r.o. scalability which has not yet been resolved. And this is clearly an issue. Relying on Moore's Law or hoping that a solution will "emerge" in the future when it is needed, is a dangerous way to proceed IMHO. Has anyone articulated a detailed solution yet whereby Bitcoin could scale to say 1 billion users (each making 1 transaction per day)?
Did you read the page in the wiki about scalability that was linked in a previous comment?

The solutions don't need to emerge, the solutions are known and just need to be implemented.

Does anyone know how many Bitcoin users there presently are? Or what the current average transactions per day are?
How many users is anyone's guess, depends also on whom you call a user. In the past 24 hours there were 20338 transactions.
1523  Economy / Securities / Re: Which GLBSE mining companies are upgrading to BFL? on: July 01, 2012, 12:46:45 PM
PureMining will remain 1 MH/s per bond.
1524  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why not adjust the block reward on every retarget? on: July 01, 2012, 11:26:34 AM
Actually, it could have been done without too much difficulty. The trick would simply be to select two integers 'a' and 'b' correctly and then doing this at each difficulty adjustment:

blockReward = (blockReward * a) / b;

Integer math is used, so the results are exact. With a bit of care, 'a' and 'b' could be selected such that the total number of bitcoins produced is still well-known in advance and still very close to 21 million and still takes about the same amount of time. While an integer multiplication and division do take longer than a shift, they're trivial compared to the many other operations that have to be performed on every single block, and this is only done on each retarget.

Most likely, a solution could be found with 'b' being a power of two. So at least the division would just be shift.
You can use for example a=39455940911, b=39719364610 or a=1172761792249825816554, b=2^70. If you require b to be a power of 2, a needs to be much higher to obtain the same accuracy, so you don't really gain much.

Anyway, as I mentioned it's more accurate to work with satoshis remaining.
1525  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why not adjust the block reward on every retarget? on: July 01, 2012, 09:51:58 AM
Of course it is not smart to do
reward=reward*x long before the result equals the input
You would rather implement it like
reward=50BTC*(pow(x,blockId))

This adds dramatic complexity to the Bitcoin client Smiley
Floating-point operations are inherently inexact, making the amount of bitcoins generated dependent on them is just asking for trouble. If anything it would be better to make integer multiplication/division once every several blocks.

Discontinuously diminishing block rewards is less mathematically elegant, but much simpler. The disruption it will cause is fairly minor.

You may also be interested in http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1526/what-are-the-advantages-disadvantages-of-a-continuously-decreasing-block-reward.

EDIT: To improve accuracy when doing decay for every block, work by BTC remaining, not by BTC for this block. That is, in the beginning there are 2,100,000,000,000,000 satoshis remaining. In every block, multiply the amount remaining by 1120732551094 and divide by 1120736250303. The block reward will be the difference between the current remaining amount and the previous remaining amount. This ensures that exactly 2,100,000,000,000,000 satoshis total will be paid. It also means, though, that decay will be faster than intended when the rounding starts being significant, but by then we may move to a finer division than satoshis.

To a mining operator whose margins are marginal (e.g., paying average or above-average electric rates and mining using GPUs) or even mining profitably at these levels, the block halving will be brutal to GPU mining.  Like ... come block 210,000 it will be exit stage left, NAO!
Any GPU miner will pull out sooner or later, does it matter if they do it one by one or many of them at once? Besides, people (should) take into account the future halving in current hardware purchase decisions, and variations in electricity costs mean that the halving alone won't cause everyone to quit.
1526  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Looking at building a single-card dedicated rig on: July 01, 2012, 09:37:16 AM
I'm looking at building a single-card rig with a Sapphire 5830.
I have no plans on expanding this rig.
I need some pointers on what hardware to get.

Here's my current list:
OS: Ubuntu?
RAM: 2GB of DDR3?
CPU: Huh (Shouldn't bottleneck)
Mobo: Huh
PSU: 600W 80+ Certified?
Card: 1x Radeon 5830 (Overclocking and Underclocking memory)
Case: A slice of wood from Home Depot
HDD: Sata2 120GB (Only $10 so...)

Do you already have the card with no other use for it? If not I don't recommend doing this.

OS: Ubuntu works.
RAM: 1GB should do.
CPU: It won't, get the cheapest you can, usually an AMD single-core.
Mobo: The cheapest you can get.
PSU: 450W from a good brand should be enough.
Card, case: Ok.
HDD: OK but alternatively you can use a USB flash drive.
1527  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] HEDGE.TYGRR.BOND-B.LONG/SHORT on: July 01, 2012, 09:16:47 AM
TYGRR.BOND-B would have made its obligated dividend payments through GLBSE if the TYGRR.BOND-B holders received 0.008 BTC in the period the contract specified.  Like I said before 0.008 BTC does not equal 0.00799999 BTC.  That is like if you bought something from me in a parking lot but dropped the money into a storm sewer before it reached my hand.  I did not receive the money so you did not pay me.
It's more like I asked you to pay me $1000 via PayPal, you do just that and I end up with $970 in my account because of PayPal fees. I still should deliver the product even though I didn't get $1000.

I am not a cheerleader for either the LONG or SHORT contracts and I think the contacts are throughly written.  All the information of missing a 0.00000001 BTC had been publicly disclosed.  What is basically happening is  that people that buy a LONG bond are going into contract with the people that bought the SHORT bond.  I am only a middleman holding the funds and paying them out.  I am only doing what the contract says.
I believe the contracts were vague at best about this. It is your responsibility as a middleman to fairly interpret the contract and contact relevant parties if a potential issue arises. I find it hard to believe you didn't foresee this would be controversial.

I am sure if I broke the contract and paid the LONG holders then the SHORT holders would be furious as well.
I honestly doubt that. I'd like to see the SHORT holder who can say with a straight face that crediting SHORT instead of LONG was fair.

If the SHORT holders think this is unfair to the LONG holders then they are free to send the money back to the LONG holders.
It is not public knowledge who owns bonds. You as an issuer have indirect knowledge of this via the buyback feature, and it is your responsibility to make proper use of it.

Besides, non sequitur. Believing something is unfair doesn't mean you should opt to send your money to strangers.


Edit: Just because GLBSE shows .0079999 can we confirm that is the amount that went into shareholders account and is not just a reporting error? If they were in fact paid the full amount like I suspect they were, you owe me some BTC.
No such luck, according to my understanding of GLBSE it is indeed true that only .00799999 was received.
1528  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] HEDGE.TYGRR.BOND-B.LONG/SHORT on: July 01, 2012, 06:38:48 AM
Quote
TYGRR.BOND-B is obligated to make its obligated dividend payments through GLBSE to its bond holders
Exactly. TYGRR.BOND-B made its obligated dividend payments through GLBSE, 45.6+20 = 0.002*32800. How GLBSE goes on to represent it internally is not Goat's problem. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If I were an HTBBL holder I'd be furious.

Did you contact Goat about this? Since clearly this is not what HTBBL holders had in mind (or HTBBS for that matter), and yet you still felt it triggers the letter of the HEDGE contract, you should have gone to great lengths to inform Goat about the situation and request that he makes an extra satoshi per bond payment to resolve this.
1529  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] HEDGE.TYGRR.BOND-B.LONG/SHORT on: July 01, 2012, 05:47:23 AM
A total of 0.00799999 BTC/bond were paid, so there is 0.00000001 BTC/bond remaining.

Therefore, as stated in the contract, holders of HEDGE.TYGRR.BOND-B.SHORT will be bought back at 0.04544066 BTC per bond.

Holders of HEDGE.TYGRR.BOND-B.LONG will receive 0.00000001 BTC per bond.  This is the minimum amount I can force a buyback of these.
What. The. F.

You do know this is just a rounding problem with GLBSE, right? Goat put 45.6 in the payment field in GLBSE, then 20, total 65.6 = 0.002 * 32800. But because of the way GLBSE rounds things it came down to a bit less. Goat filled his obligations.

Even if this wasn't GLBSE's problem, this is stupid. You should make a 0.01% or something tolerance in your contract to account for rounding and other issues, we can't carry out all calculations to infinite precision.
1530  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Splitting BitCoin in Currency on: June 30, 2012, 07:43:43 PM
You can use http://btctox.org/ to convert Bitcoin amounts to any other currency, and vice versa.

Personally I just go to http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/ and look at the last traded price on Mt. Gox ("Cl").
1531  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] DEEPBIT Miner Earnings Insurance IPO today on: June 29, 2012, 02:46:15 PM
Anyways, it looks like, I buy your issue for say 0.1, and I then receive ten payments of 0.01 -- based on the variance of a set of variables. That's what I didn't really understand -- what those variables were. I guess I'll keep an eye on it and see how it works for now, it does sound interesting.
The variable is Deepbit's luck in finding blocks. Only miners at Deepbit have any reason to buy this bond, anyone else is simply not the target market.

You did make a good point though:
Why should people buy your fund versus ... diversifying across pools?
If miners diversified across pools, they'd have much less need for insurance like this.
1532  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Idea] P2P Chess Solving + Mining Pool on: June 29, 2012, 01:29:39 PM
I don't think GPUs are good for chess, but I could be wrong.

A chess pool would need a completely different structure than a mining pool, I don't think much can be reused from the existing code and infrastructure of mining pools.

I support the idea of (and had for a while an interest in) a distributed chess playing agent, if such a thing doesn't exist yet.

There are some chess-related grid computing projects, such as chess960@home.
1533  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: So, are these real? on: June 29, 2012, 10:26:44 AM
Once the units are materialized and proven to have the stated specs, there will be an even greater stampede on orders, and possibly a longer waiting list (during which the difficulty will soar).
That's exactly why I don't think too many will order the $30k rig until the Jalapeno proves itself. There might be a few who do... The Jalapeno is going to take a few months to prove itself. You can't just plug it in, see the 3.5 Gh/s and assume that it will stay that way. It could burn out in 5 minutes for all we know, or it might generate just enough BTC to pay off the unit, and then burn out.
BFL will offer a warranty on the units. I don't think they specified its length but it should be at least 6 months, if the Jalapeno is working at all you can assume it will continue working that long.

People with lots of cash didn't get that way by foolishly investing large sums of money in unproven technology. You can bet that the smart ones will wait at least a bit to see how this all pans out.
They didn't get that way by watching from the sidelines as opportunities pass by, either. By the time you know the investment is a sure thing it is already too late to profit from it. Being a smart investor consists in figuring out which of the risky investments have the best prospects of being profitable.

It is common knowledge that the stated performance specs are well within the capabilities of ASIC, and it is by a company that is already offering the best mining products on the market. If you don't think that's good enough, you're leaving an opportunity for those who do to profit.
1534  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: So, are these real? on: June 29, 2012, 09:26:58 AM

It's BTC50 and BTC25, and it's unrelated to the difficulty.

In the first few days of the ASIC being out they can be quite profitable, but the difficulty will quickly increase to diminish the profits.

Yes BTC, not $, my bad, sorry, but it's connected to difficulty.
No, the block reward will become BTC50 starting with block 210,000, regardless of what the difficulty will be at the time. Variations in the network hashrate can have an effect on the date of this, but only a minor one.

In the first few days of the ASIC being out they can be quite profitable, but the difficulty will quickly increase to diminish the profits.
In a way, that's a shame. It seems that these new ASIC machines will quickly make it nearly impossible for the little guy to mine enough BTC to make it worth the effort.  Something like this could turn BitCoin into something that benefits those who already have the BTCBTCBTC or $$$, and the little guy gets the tiniest, tiniest scraps that are leftover... and that sounds too much like a monetary system we are already too familiar with.
Bitcoin isn't communism or Robin hood. It's not supposed to stop people from being able to use their earned wealth. It's "just" a much better way to store and exchange this wealth. And, ASIC isn't changing the situation one bit, the amount of rigs you can buy is exactly proportional to your wealth whether they are based on CPU, GPU or ASIC.

Anyway, hopefully I can build a small Jalapeno army rather quickly within a few months, and then start buying the $1299 ones that do 40 Gh/s... and slowly work my way up to the 1000 Gh/s monster.
You do know there's a 4 month waiting list, right? If you use the profit from the first Jalapeno to buy the second, you'll be waiting for a long time.

One good thing, though... I doubt many people will invest in the more expensive ASICs right away... They'll likely want to see the results (and consistency) delivered by the Jalapeno before plunking down a huge investment for the (supposedly) more powerful units.
You'll be surprised.

Once the units are materialized and proven to have the stated specs, there will be an even greater stampede on orders, and possibly a longer waiting list (during which the difficulty will soar). Either you wait out and lose the opportunity for big profit, or you take a risk and either win big or lose big. For you it may seem a lot to spend $30K on this, but there are people with sufficiently deep pockets and enough experience with Bitcoin to do this.

I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't invest - I'm just saying it's not the get rich quick scheme you seem to think it is, you need to study this, make an informed decision, and own up to it.
1535  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: So, are these real? on: June 29, 2012, 08:58:51 AM
I think you should start as fast as possible with Jalapeno, because as difficulty raises value of the block goes down. Currently you receive 50$ per block, in the near future you will get $25...
It's BTC50 and BTC25, and it's unrelated to the difficulty.

In the first few days of the ASIC being out they can be quite profitable, but the difficulty will quickly increase to diminish the profits. And if you preorder now you're taking a risk with respect to the delivery time. Read up on all the information available and then decide if you want to make this investment. There's no free lunch, and there's no sustainable way to quadruple your wealth every month.
1536  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Can the Block Chain get too big and make Bitcoin unworkable? on: June 29, 2012, 04:04:15 AM
Thanks everyone for the solid answers and follow-up links. I see this matter has had a lot of discussion!

Seems that trimming the block chain is a viable solution if properly implemented.

Is it correct that every transaction that happens is written to the block chain of every user?

If so this would appear to present its own bandwidth problem.

In order to be viable as a long term sustainable currency, Bitcoin ultimately needs to be able to scale to billions of transactions per day (thousands per second). Is this possible if each transaction needs to update every single block chain stored on every user's computer? (Moore's Law aside...)
As mentioned, end users will not need the entire blockchain. Just the headers and transactions that involve them specifically, which is a tiny part.

OK, so it's not the case that every transaction (between anyone) needs to be written to every copy of the block chain??
It's more accurate to say that every transaction is written to every copy of the block chain, but not everyone has a copy of the block chain.
1537  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] - MINING_B.HEADS.FUT / MINING_B.TAILS.FUT - Bet against the mining bonds on: June 28, 2012, 06:44:56 PM
you in this case have more of a "meta" asset where you don't sell parts of a debt or company but a bet that benefits nobody but the investors that bet on the right side + you as you probably take a cut. You don't create new value, you just offer a way of redistributing it, based on some set parameters.
A proper prediction market certainly creates value. It gives people with knowledge about an event, or the ability to obtain it, an incentive to obtain knowledge and share it with the world, which can then act upon it. Concepts such as Futarchy take this idea several steps further, just to give a hint on the usefulness.

I don't think you understand what I'm talking about.
That is entirely possible.  Smiley

I'm very much open to alternate explanations if I didn't catch the first one correctly.
In short: Prediction markets should come in the form of an asset that has a fixed payout conditioned on the underlying event, but not on any meta factors. Betsobitco.in don't offer traded assets, and your payout is affected by what other betters do in the future; your proposal is a traded asset, but its payout depends on the number of assets sold (if this number is fixed in advance the problem isn't as bad).

The classic asset is "pays out 1 BTC if X happens". If this asset is traded at p BTC but I think the probability of X happening is q, I can buy it and profit on average if q>p, or buy the complementary asset if q<p. By so doing the traded price becomes closer to p, so if I'm right the whole world now has better knowledge of the event. And if I'm wrong I'll lose on average and eventually not have any money left to feed bogus data to the market.
1538  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] - MINING_B.HEADS.FUT / MINING_B.TAILS.FUT - Bet against the mining bonds on: June 28, 2012, 06:35:54 PM
Now that you mention it, thinking about your proposed contract terms, it's not really a prediction market at all, it's more like a bet of the kind you find at betsofbitco.in, where funds are distributed in a somewhat arbitrary way from losers to winners.
I'm pretty sure this is what most markets do?  Transfer cash from investor to investor?
Yes, but not in an arbitrary way, in a way that guarantees that someone with more knowledge about an event than the market at a given time can profit on average (and thus is incentivized to share his knowledge with the world by investing accordingly). On betsofbitco.in I can have exact knowledge of the probability of the event, and still lose averaging on its instantiation.

I realize that's how it's supposed to be.  But that's not how it really is.  Everyone, and I mean everyone games the system to the best of their ability.

It's most certainly not arbitrary though.  More like a game of chess.
I don't think you understand what I'm talking about.
1539  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] - MINING_B.HEADS.FUT / MINING_B.TAILS.FUT - Bet against the mining bonds on: June 28, 2012, 05:46:50 PM
Now that you mention it, thinking about your proposed contract terms, it's not really a prediction market at all, it's more like a bet of the kind you find at betsofbitco.in, where funds are distributed in a somewhat arbitrary way from losers to winners.
I'm pretty sure this is what most markets do?  Transfer cash from investor to investor?
Yes, but not in an arbitrary way, in a way that guarantees that someone with more knowledge about an event than the market at a given time can profit on average (and thus is incentivized to share his knowledge with the world by investing accordingly). On betsofbitco.in I can have exact knowledge of the probability of the event, and still lose averaging on its instantiation.
1540  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2012-06-27 newscientist.com - Freicoin: Occupy's online currency for the 99 per on: June 28, 2012, 03:53:11 PM
Currency competition, I realized, is actually bad. A system of multiple currencies is always suboptimal, it's a situation where we simply can't agree on an universal currency and we must exchange between different currencies. What all the exchanging is in the end is a business, a middle man that is not needed. Bitcoin has a shot at becoming a universal currency because it has strong features as a medium of exchange and strong features as a store of value.
Exchanging one decentralized digital currency for another is inherently cheaper than with physical/centralized currencies, and with a lower barrier of entry to service providers. What's more, there are protocol features that could allow atomic exchanges without any middleman. I don't see a problem with multiple decentralized digital currencies being employed for different purposes.
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