Hi Jimmy3dita
I tried to do some research on you and get some understanding of your motervations
Armchair detectives  Dude, nothing personal with you or Phoenix, but it's clear that we have on one side true entrepreneurs, that have already evaluated (eventually taken like you) the risks of investing on the whole Bitcoin mining thing, opposed by guys trying the big catch, that simply risk to get screwed if their money-printing thingie isn't delivered in time. And I can see many of them around this forum (again, nothing personal). I really appreciate the work of people like Bitcoinorama (and you when you managed to talk with Andreas) but the whole point is about business. It's clear (from the price tag) that Knc has pofessional products for business oriented mining. I apologize for tagging the "exchange mining wallet" as bs (my fault, no drugs involved), but I hardly understand why so many pages are there with fuss about consumer laws, chargebacks and scam vs shill - when any other business out there is about investing money and getting only an hard lesson back if sometihing went wrong. Imho we should stop watching Knc (and the whole Bitcoin thing) from a consumer perspective. Thanks for the giggle. Really funny. Watch out Donald Trump.  ) |
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I hope this is a post to ask a question that might be overlooked.
My order is 4xxx so I'm assuming 4k plus orders.
Now, since I did that they offered 2 things. Hosting and pre-config.
People who think their rigs are better off hosted because they will be online instantly...I think are dreaming.
Assuming 10% of sales hosted (no idea of true numbers so that's a guess)...when all those rigs arrive to be unboxed and plugged in etc...that's a hugely time consuming job.
400 rigs, all from box to the correct place, plugged in, configured, checked. Imagine you got that job...what would you say when they asked when it would be done?
Now, add the fact that ALL rigs can be configured before delivery. That's 4000 plus rigs. each requiring someone to find the correct (and very important details), find the rig, set it up, check it....then box it and send it.
On the other hand. They could make the rigs, pack them..send them out. Each of us spend an hour setting our own up DAYS before they would ever have reached us given the scenario above.
Hosting...you've either chosen it or not. You may have reasons.
Pre-config, convenient, but if we all go that way we're going to be waiting weeks longer to earn anything from the rigs at the time they most need to be hashing.
Is it worth even a day delay for you to get a box from Sweden to have it all set up for you? Versus them just boxing it and you doing it?
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I have a question is kncminer.com is trust comapany
I want to order something (2x Mercury) but I don't know or I can trust this guys .
It is cheaper to get 1 Saturn than having 2 Mercury. If you really thinking about buying it. Check this out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=271085.msg2903277#msg2903277I should have a reseller ID next week. Please do not link spam this thread with your future affiliate crap, the guy needs guidance on bothering to undertake his own research, if he just listens to you on saving a few quid, and granting you commission, he'll blame you, KnC and everyone but himself if he feels hard done by at anypoint. $4000 is a lot of money and only what i need to know is can I trust kncminer.com I found on internet that their send the miner in septermeber but on kncminer website I see october I have sent a mail to him but I hear nothing ,i want to know when can I expect the miner. You're right. It's a lot of money. If you order a machine now it might be delivered in November ..early or late, no-one knows....but you should use a worst situation. IF that happens, you'll probably break even. It will probably just manage to get your money back. Now the question you need to ask is this. I can spend my money now on bitcoins. I can buy a rig that may or may not get me that same amount of coins, and maybe a few more. You can have bitcoins for certain. You can spend the same money and not be sure of anything, and not get very good odds for your gamble. NEVER ask other people how to spend what you earned, never spend without research unless it's something that's going to keep you smiling all night and the next morning when you realise what you did. People are selfish and memories are priceless.  |
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it's august and kncminer hasn't released single real photo of their miners?
BFL buyers had pretty photos to look at for a year ...very impressive they were, and more than a little frustrating. Can't mine with photos. |
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I wonder if it is worth upgrading Saturn to Jupiter with order near 2600 (paid immediately), vs waiting for the price drop for November delivery.
Only you know that, if you can afford it I mean. Run a calculator over both options...should tell you something even if it's not writ in stone. Personally I'd get as much hashing power as I could as early as possible...it's looking a bit grim for end of year deliveries now...or I'd wait for March. Don't forget Nov price cut might not mean Nov delivery, and we don't know what they are gonna offer in March with the next gen rigs. Mine bitcoins they said, make you rich they said, it's easy they said.  |
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Surprised to hear that this will be their first experience mining. Figured anyone that is jumping on this expensive equipment has done some mining in the past. Hopefully this isn't your first BTC experience. =)
I wouldn't recommend having all funds go directly to an exchange address. Setup a local wallet, encrypt it, then back it up. Once you have done that, use that wallet address to send your funds to. If you are running windows, grab a usb stick-- run BITLOCKER. encrypt the usb stick and put the wallet on there. put the stick in a safe or safety deposit box.
next.. have fun!
Suprised? Why? If people all over the bitcoin world talk about it expanding as more people get involved and the good it will do...surely some new people are required to make that happen? Should they start with equipment that is sure to lose them money, or find the gear most likely to break even ? If someone had asked if it was worthwhile starting mining with their gaming machine with a couple of hot graphics cards...what would the advice be? Don't be silly, it's not worth it anymore I'd bet. So someone coming along who is interested in starting mining would need an ASIC logically. The rst of this isn't aimed at Wasted, more generally. This is a reason that the whole bitcoin arena is so slow to spread...it's full of people who love to put down anyone new. A few months experience mining and suddenly a lot of people are too good to be polite or remember that they were once in that position. There's no reason to be a smartarse, and it makes you look a proper dick. Some posts lately have been pure putdowns. People being called idiots for not having the same knowledge that others have and simply asking a basic question. Sure, most of it can be found online, but it's not always well explained. IF someone stops you in the street asking for directions you'd never call them a dumbass for not bringing a map just because you're familiar with the area would you? Why is this any different? Someone once helped you, you didn't slip out of your mother into the midwife's arms full of bitcoin mining knowledge. |
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Anyone know what to put in the pool worker field if one choose kncpool?
That setup is a little weird. The pool as far as I know isn't open yet to register your account. So, if you put in an account name now before the pool is open, it is possible that someone could snake you as soon as the pool starts accepting registrations and register your account name. If you then weren't paying attention, you could start of mining to someone else's account. It would be trivial to loop through all of the previous posters of this thread and register their usernames. I would suggest not entering the info in if you are using the kncpool until you actually register a pool account. As to your question, the worker name is simply an identifier for you to tell the difference between multiple miners. It's just a descriptive name that means something to you... it could literally be any text. You can't mine off their pool without their hosting. I'm guessing they will only accept connections from their internal IP block. Wouldn't it make sense for them to set that all up and send you the info, you just giving them your wallet details? They're going to have a lot to do so it would be faster and there'd be less chance of mistakes? |
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When you think about it, how many people were swayed by all the info Bitcoinorama posted at preorder time. If everything goes well and Sept/Oct units have shipped-- I think KNC should add a survey to the website and ask 'Did Bitcoinorama's postings help you decide to purchase' and give that man 1 unit! It's only fair. That's true, but I think they should also send Josh one too. His attitude made my mind up. The complete opposite of KnC. If not for him and the efforts made by Bitcoinorama I'd be waiting for a BFL brick to arrive in 2014 now. Close shave doesn't cover it. |
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I just read the newsletter and the news posted here, if they will deliver units that hash higher than 400GH/s AND early this will practically turn them into legends around here . I think the correct etiquette to claim a miracle involves a letter to his holiness the pope? |
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Sensible stuff. They weren't going to be selling much at all because of the ROI situation in november so they made ROI less difficult and recruited a sales force to get them out while they are still hot. Common sense. The rest is jam IMHO. No pissing about trying to find some cheap raspberry Pi to run the rig, it's all in there. Possible faster rigs to help make a little better return. Over delivery seems possible like the man said. I dare someone to put their ref link in a BFL forum sig |
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Whether these things start shipping at the beginning/end of the month is going to make a huge difference....
It is. It's going to murder sale of any off the shelf rigs too. Who's going to buy a rig in mid - October that will never break even? It's maybe more in their interest to be speedy than ours. |
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We discussed earlier in the thread, the actual monthly rise has been 62% rather than 75, but using 75% will keep you on the safe side when considering mining equipment.
While it is true that exponential growth is not sustainable in the long run, we still don't know what does this "long run" mean for the ASICs. For all we know this growth is going to maintain for a while. ASICMiner has just announced new stock on all their products, AVALON has about 1 million chips (300 TH) in the verge of distributing, KnCMiner is supposed to start shipping in September, and then AVALON has announced Gen 2 chips on-stock (not pre-orders) for mid october and parallel development of Gen 3 and 4 chips simultaneously. Then we have Cointerra announcing a 500GH/s chip for mid october. And this is just to mention major players... At this rate not only buyers of mining equipment will be screwed with their ROI but also many manufacturers as well, when they'll have to sell their equipment at discount rates.
I have my doubts that KnCMiners shipped in Late october or early november will recoup the investment, and if they will, they will make minimum gains.
That 75% increase was the actual rise for the last month. Not an estimate. I didn't believe it either until I ran the numbers. I agree with what you say though, scary times ahead. Hopefully the value of BTC will rise enough to provide a boost. More people must end up buying them than currently happens when they become uneconomical to mine. There's going to be a lot of people with 1000 watt hosted hoovers lol |
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I don't know, my calculations show it looking pretty good.
Anyone using a percentage past the first month isn't using logic.
We MIGHT see a max a 75M Difficulty increase every month (Obviously not the first couple months until BFL Bitfury and Avalon get their act together.)
That image shows the REAL increase for the month up to date 75%. What new hashpower leapt onto the scene to make that happen compared to the stuff we all know is about to come online in the next couple of months (and possibly some we know nothing about which are private projects)? Granted this kind of increase isn't likely to be indefinite, but as KnC plan a next gen in march and prices drop and other will be planning new gen stuff too...it's not looking to me that it's going to slow in the next 6 months at least. Look at the figures in that image for the projected difficulty in March and onwards. Massive. Logic is exactly what is being used. Rather than wild optimism. Use the most reliable figures you know to estimate the future performance, the shelf life of the current batch of KnC miners isn't long at all. What would be good to know is how accurate that calculator has been with something actually hashing, like a BFL Jally...given historical difficulty figures. I can't find anyone who's done that  I think that we're close to the point where the risk of buying a pre-order rig that may at best just break even, or an off the shelf rig that's already struggling vs just buying BTC and knowing you'll get at least what you paid for....that may result in less sales and a rise in coin prices to make mining worthwhile for those who can afford it and nudge the rigs struggling into a better return in the future. A rise in buying of BTC that drove the price to 130 dollars...that would help a lot of people to break even who might not currently? |
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So, all it takes for me to stop being a consumer and become a business is some small print in the terms of a product I buy?
Wow, I wonder why all companies selling products don't use those T&C?
</sarcasm>
Ridiculous.
It's good to hear they are ahead of schedule, not so good that the 75% forecast rise in difficulty definitely is over the last 30 days and prior to all these rigs going online...and anything else from other companies.
The next gen is going to have to deal with almost 1900 difficulty in March assuming those calculations aren't far off too...that's going to be a challenge.
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Running any KnC kit delivered in Nov makes grim reading on the calculator here if it's anywhere close to right http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ especially since the October figures would be for kit delivered at the start of that month which is unlikely for most of us. I hope their 75% increase has taken the KnC rigs into account. BFL peeps who have yet to see their box must read that with tears in their eyes. |
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By buying their products you are agreeing to the T&C and thus explicitly agreeing that you are acting as a business and thus "forfeiting" consumer rights.
Wow, that's how it works? The website just needs to have the words "for business use only" and they avoid all consumer rights laws? No it's not how it works. In fact the law says that terms and conditions need to be reasonable. You can't just add all kinds of rubbish to suit your needs. That line made me laugh, it's total bollocks. "Thus" ...that implies that businesses have no legal protection when they buy stuff, which would, for example, spell doom for all retailers who are businesses who buy everything they sell on to consumers who have rights that they don't? |
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A little off topic here. I just changed my home contents insurance company and it appears that items over a grand in value need to be declared separately, "attractive items" they call them. Apparently this falls into that category and if you don't tell them about it then it won't be covered. It may be different for other companies, but it didn't occur to me at all until I was asked to list such things..so maybe worth checking. BTC competitions? I like competitions and so do loads of my mates...never seen any except for the manufacturer raffles which I managed to miss |
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worried about the delay.hope not. What delay? There's not been one. True. Some of the stuff here reminds me a lot of Minority Report. Convicting KnC of future crimes |
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Look on the bright side. If KnC are late, all that hashpower won't go online and difficulty won't rise as fast as we fear. |
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This private equity type deal was bound to come sooner or later. I have money invested in several funds as part of a pension fund, some low risk, others high...trees for example. A 15% return over a year is a result for them. If they see bitcoins as something that they can get into now which will increase in value over 5 years (As I bet most of us think), they'll see it as a high risk high reward investment. 200 mill isn't a lot of money for these people, they aren't sitting in a bedroom hoping for ROI and worrying about power bills, they must see a massive return over a long time compared to other places they invest. For example, if they plant a tree to harvest the wood...that money is tied up until the tree is worth harvesting years down the road for lumber, unlike bitcoins which given the right hardware break even in a few months. Once they have their BTC they sit on them and happily wait for a price rise. There are other options with the mining gear once BTC become uneconomical to mine. If you think BTC may one day hit 1000 dollars..uneconomical now may be acceptable investment for the future returns.
Personally I think that there's a short window now where we can mine using our own gear, then it will become unaffordable and we'll be buying shares in companies that can do it to scale...some of whom may be companies like these.
I saw a rig linked from an ad on here last week, could be upgraded to cost half a million and some loony hashrate...just for a minute assuming it's a real rig that will exist and be able to pay for itself like a KnC rig hopefully will...why would a company who can afford 10 or those not buy them? What other traditional investment can do that? It must have some speculators in high risk markets licking their lips compared to the long term stuff they usually deal in...and IF they see the value of a bitcoin hitting 4 figures in years to come like many people do...well we're going to see them arriving in droves.
IF that's the case, we're not going to see a dribble of rins with higher and higher hashpower..we're going to see hundreds of farms of these rigs arriving as soon as they are available pushing the network hashrate sky high. The manufacturers, they'll love it, no whiny forums to keep an eye on, no delivery, no currency issues, just one large customer you need to deal with. A customer who may not care about ROI short term because they are looking for a very long term return based on a huge rise in coin prices.
Timmers the article is BS, or certainly surrounding evidence appears that way. Journalists are not immune to lazy journalism, especially in the age of the internet where upon the first to report get's the first share, which get's snowballed by sharing more increasing their reputation and 'delivering the news (FUD)'. The other 'rig' you saw linked was Gridfinity, a supposed distributor for Hashfast, who came out on record stating his efforts of fundraising in $500k+ denominations had nothing to do with them (after confirming they were known to eachother previously). Shady marketing, sure, but not a huge success as people saw through it. Not to say interest isn't gathering momentum, but the best thing for us miners is the ability to distribute the network far and wide, with competing companies offering worthwhile and genuine product offerings based on fair pricing, which is the way it appears to now be heading, finally... Yeah I realise it's not fact. Sadly for us though it's just a matter of time before some of these types of companies see the possible returns and change the game. Where there's money to be made so obviously they always eventually find it. What's best for BTC or us doesn't matter when money is to be made. They have the funds to do what they want in their relentless quest for profit. Most people mining now won't be able to compete when rigs become expensive, so the whole game will change in favour of those who can afford to be industrial, just like all other industries. Right now people aren't hosting their own rigs, prefering to have them hosted and pay for that. For sensible economic reasons. Next step, don't own a rig at all, buy a share in a farming facility..then logically not even that, buy a share in a mining company which is a short step from that. All you're going to get from owning a rig is hassle which you don't need if your eye is on the bottom line. Those with capital to invest will be all over that like a pair of rubber Y fronts...it's what they exist to do. Some folk will stick to what they see as the right way on principle...most will follow their wallets and do what they can afford or what gives the best return. The next year or maybe two is crucial IMO. Which is why to me this KnC batch and possibly the next gen is so important. I liked the way they talked about aiming for long term ROI for their customers, I just hope they can do it. So far I'm happy with what I've heard. A great deal of that thanks to your effort visiting them...so we owe you thanks for that. |
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