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1681  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 04, 2014, 02:55:32 PM


What was new for me, is that target doesn't directly depend on time your previous generation. There's no "coin days" like in PPC or NVC.


No coin days,  so miners can game the system since with what they call 'transparent mining'  they know beforehand if it is there turn to mine,  so they can move around their coins to the miner that is going to get its turn.

So to game this system, you have a bunch of say N miners and then you have a balance of M that you move around to the miner that will be mining next. So effectively you get N*M more profitability.


Fortunately, your idea won't work because when you move your coins there's a penalty of 1440 blocks before they can be used for mining again.

N.B. the account to mine the next block also depends on the previous blocks, so you'd have something like 1439 unknown blocks to predict.

1682  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 04, 2014, 02:42:49 PM
Sorry, I'm totally confused now.

Can you please post the complete steps and requirements for burning?

I would like to give it a go!

I'm sorry, but it's too dangerous to accept burns from just any ol' client: counterpartyd is extremely strict when it comes to how it constructs its transactions so there is no ambiguity in how any given transaction should be interpreted. I would really like to avoid facing the problems that other projects have come up against that are a consequence of having a poorly defined protocol. The Counterparty team is working hard on getting some trusted members of the community on board who would be willing to buy XCP on your behalf. For now, if you can't get counterpartyd running yourself, you'll have to wait to invest.

Umm... I can get counterpartyd running myself, no problem.

However, your posts have confused me.

I have bitcoind running, as you previously specified.

Can you please summarise what is the current procedure for burring BTC to get XCP on the main net?

Thanks!
1683  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 04, 2014, 02:22:15 PM
Important update: Now you can use any Bitcoin client to burn BTC for XCP. Just send BTC to the unspendable addresses '1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr' (mainnet) and 'mvCounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXW24Hef' (testnet). Be careful not to try to burn more than 1 BTC per address. If you do, your last attempted burn will be completely invalid.

Hi PhantonPhreak

Can you clarify on the above? Do you mean that "counterpartyd.py" will now work with any Bitcoin client or are you saying that we can just send coins to the exodus address '1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr' from a client that we have control for?

Cheers

The latter.

So,

Do we need to make sure the coins are sent from a single address still?

Also, do we need

txindex=1
server=1

Anymore?

Can I burn from the MultiBit bitcoin client?

Thanks.


I've disabled that feature for now, as it opens up a whole can of worms. (How can Bitcoind still not have coin control?!)

EDIT: Seriously, though, sorry for the mixed messages. I was being overeager.

Sorry, I'm totally confused now.

Can you please post the complete steps and requirements for burning?

I would like to give it a go!
1684  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 04, 2014, 02:02:24 PM
Important update: Now you can use any Bitcoin client to burn BTC for XCP. Just send BTC to the unspendable addresses '1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr' (mainnet) and 'mvCounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXW24Hef' (testnet). Be careful not to try to burn more than 1 BTC per address. If you do, your last attempted burn will be completely invalid.

Hi PhantonPhreak

Can you clarify on the above? Do you mean that "counterpartyd.py" will now work with any Bitcoin client or are you saying that we can just send coins to the exodus address '1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr' from a client that we have control for?

Cheers

The latter.

So,

Do we need to make sure the coins are sent from a single address still?

Also, do we need

txindex=1
server=1

Anymore?

Can I burn from the MultiBit bitcoin client?

Thanks.
1685  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Counterparty Protocol and Client (built on Bitcoin) - Official Thread on: January 04, 2014, 01:33:32 PM
How does XCP compare with MSC?

Two different projects with different approaches.

Please elaborate.
1686  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 04, 2014, 12:22:39 PM
- There are somewhere else some additional rules to make the scheme actually secure that I haven't found.

Scheme, proposed by BCNext, is a straightforward simulation of PoW. Each coin is just a small mining rig. Other PoS schemes work in other way and require workarounds based on PoW.

I don't think anyone can answer his concerns unless he's specific about what he's concerned about.
1687  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 04, 2014, 12:18:28 PM
I agree strongly that a spec/whitepaper is desperately needed.  Can someone from the NXT community (who is capable) create this document, for peer review?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.msg4294653#msg4294653

Someone else needs to take over.
1688  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 04, 2014, 11:42:54 AM
(1) How do you ensure "chronological order in the block chain".
(2) What are these "strict cryptographic rules"
(3) What is the mechanism of this "lottery".

I agree that these are fundamental questions, and are the only reason why I wanted to look into the code, or have some specifications. This coin advertises itself as the first 100% proof-of-stake system, without revealing anything about how they solved the problems that prevented others to create one.

Looking into the code I couldn't find anything addressing the usual concerns about 100% PoS. (or is this one of the "injected" bugs? the part of the code securing PoS is simply missing?)

Answer to (1) is pretty much the same as Bitcoin: it just builds a chain of blocks, stores everything, cross-checks new blocks with old ones. It adds some spin to how accounts and public keys are stored, but there is no real innovation here.

(2) and (3) are more interesting. The algorithms seems to be the straightforward PoS: From the previous block it creates a hash. Each second it creates a (hash('time elapsed since last block' ,  'own account key') * 'amount of coins on account') which it calls "target", and that determines whether the account has the right to create a new block or not. Additionally 'amount of coins' is zeroed out if the account has created a block within the last 1440 blocks.

I spent only around 30 mins reading the code, so at this point there are three options:
- There are somewhere else some additional rules to make the scheme actually secure that I haven't found.
- This is one of the purposefully injected bugs.
- The PoS is insecure and doesn't even attempt to address the issues that prompted the creators of other coins (such as peercoin) to also incorporate PoW to fix the shortcoming of PoS.

I agree strongly that a spec/whitepaper is desperately needed.  Can someone from the NXT community (who is capable) create this document, for peer review?

Meanwhile, you have not described (even vaguely) the particular issue(s) you are concerned about (e.g. is it a Sybil attack?).  Could you please post a reference?

Then, maybe someone can explain how it's either addressed or not a problem.
1689  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 04, 2014, 02:21:46 AM

So your are admiting that this indeed is not the 'real source code' but some variant of it that doesn't really work.

I thought the purpose of releasing source code is to have other people to review if it is correct.

Well... I may just create a much better NXT.   Something that

(1) Has a very clear specification of the distributed consensus algorithm that people can review for flaws.
(2) Follow best practice Java coding standards.
(3) Gone through extensive static code analysis.
(4) Have a battery of unit tests to exhaustive test out the code.
(5) Ensure that tests perform 100% test coverage.

but unfortunately none of that exists for NXT.   It is just a high school project that some folks invested 21 BTC to get a stake on it.


I agree w/ most of your points, but if the code quality is not good, any flaws can be exploited, you don't have find the one he injected.

Next few weeks will be interesting to watch, I keep my fingers crossed for those with high stakes in NXT.


I am really looking forward to the next few weeks too because hopefully

1) Any flaws and bugs will get fixed
2) The community will gain assurance about the viability of the NXT platform
1690  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 10:13:35 PM
And, the devs really need to get a whitepaper together.
Among other things. As someone who has a nice amount of money invested in Nxt, I'm not that happy this days about how many thing going with Nxt.
But screaming at the devs without offering anything constructive, is less than pointless, unless he have an agenda.
And if I remember correctly, it's not even the first time he seen the code, he posted last week on btt and on reddit already about it, after he decompiled it.
So this is pretty much rehearsed bashing.

Hopefully we can get back to security / code review related posts now.

Funny thing, all of this talk about ugly code reminded me of a phrase I once read.  "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
1691  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:43:17 PM
Don't worry FreaktionLess I have hired some of the best developers (who happen to be my friends too) to make this brilliant innovative algorithm into a real software project (along of course with Jean-Luc who is the leader dev atm).

See you around I hope to review their code too Wink

+1
1692  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:41:39 PM
I normally don't call people trolls, but:

1) It is clear you have not been following anything related to NXT. Injected flaws (in an otherwise working base code) with bounty payouts is meant to encourage people to take a very hard look a the code. Also, read the 1st post again, c-f-b explained this.
2) Bashing how "clean" the code looks. Really? If you're so good at this, why didn't you come up with a better NXT first? It's probably because you can't (hence you have to fork NXT's code... how ironic).

So your are admiting that this indeed is not the 'real source code' but some variant of it that doesn't really work.

I thought the purpose of releasing source code is to have other people to review if it is correct.

Well... I may just create a much better NXT.   Something that

(1) Has a very clear specification of the distributed consensus algorithm that people can review for flaws.
(2) Follow best practice Java coding standards.
(3) Gone through extensive static code analysis.
(4) Have a battery of unit tests to exhaustive test out the code.
(5) Ensure that tests perform 100% test coverage.

but unfortunately none of that exists for NXT.   It is just a high school project that some folks invested 21 BTC to get a stake on it.



Yes.  Please go do that.

P.S. I would ask you to PM me when you have 100% test coverage, but I've not even found this in the bitcoin source code...
1693  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:36:23 PM
NXT is just some code that some junior programmer is trying to cook up one the fly.  

Take it from an expert in these coding matters.

Don't believe me,  well good luck with your NXT investments.


So... how come you 're not spitting out ALL THREE FLAWS then?



Is this not plain and simple B.S.?



"Each flaw has a small description. Here r SHA256 hashes of these descriptions:

bd34c891e9e3df9ea8b8eafc4dc3edc129f81365d42bf204ea58271e320f3ce5 - 1K reward
888f278c773d39b8334a651d84ee78871bd0e5d45e09be8fdb190ba1b2969530 - 10K reward
f5236644f4306699bb0fa90a905afe2454683c0aad6995e4433d712e2fdb257c - 100K reward
"


If he knews of the flaws,  then why is he asking this forum?

How do you create a hash of something you don't know exists?

Besides,  what the heck are you even hashing?  Some text that describes the flaw?


The B.S. is unbelievable and you folks are just too ignorant to see it.



I normally don't call people trolls, but:

1) It is clear you have not been following anything related to NXT. Injected flaws (in an otherwise working base code) with bounty payouts is meant to encourage people to take a very hard look a the code. Also, read the 1st post again, c-f-b explained this.
2) Bashing how "clean" the code looks. Really? If you're so good at this, why didn't you come up with a better NXT first? It's probably because you can't (hence you have to fork NXT's code... how ironic).

+1

He needs to chill.  His questions will be answered, but not really for this thread.

And, the devs really need to get a whitepaper together.
1694  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:34:37 PM
I've had enough friction for today.  Sad

He's just so... so angry.



But he is having some valid points.

True, though a bit off topic for this thread.

I do hope CfB (or one of the developers) will answer him.


To be fair, you guys really do need a whitepaper to avoid these kinds of reactions from skeptics.  Anyway, I suppose their questions need to be answered. Smiley
1695  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:29:40 PM
I've had enough friction for today.  Sad

He's just so... so angry.



But he is having some valid points.

True, though a bit off topic for this thread.

I do hope CfB (or one of the developers) will answer him.
1696  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:23:08 PM
You don't have a spec. for a distributed consensus algorithm?

Ah, if u need only distributed consensus algorithm then u could read about Bitcoin's algo. They r the same.

He obviously doesn't have much experience with this stuff...

And he also forgot to read up on what this source release is about and the injected flaws and the highly logical reasons for doing this.  (Anyone have the link for him?)

1697  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:21:57 PM
I've had enough friction for today.  Sad

He's just so... so angry.

1698  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 09:12:56 PM
It seem to be a personal crusade of FrictionlessCoin against nxt  Grin

Have you ever been in a code review?   The criticism I am providing is actually quite tame.

My assessment,  throw this garbage out and start again correctly.

This is a typical kind of response from a good software developer who see crap code.  Fair enough, but I must point out (again) that we are not investing in source code, we are investing in the algorithms, the big ideas (BCNext) and the huge community supporting NXT.

Source code clean up is a minor issue and will come as the project develops.  Some great developers have joined the NXT team (e.g. Jean-Luc) and are improving the software engineering practices as we speak.

However, let us get back to the point.  This is a code review for security issues, so let's try to focus on those.

I think the point about cleaning up, refactoring the code has been made and taken.

So, perhaps FrictionlessCoin has found some non-superficial security issue he would like to share?

Ok... so if you are investing on the algorithm.... then were can I find a specification of the algorithm?  (if you answer look at the source, then it is clear that you have no specification)

Thing's don't always have to start with a spec.  Ya know, this isn't a big software house.

Anything more useful to contribute, if not pure rage?
1699  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 08:57:59 PM
It seem to be a personal crusade of FrictionlessCoin against nxt  Grin

Have you ever been in a code review?   The criticism I am providing is actually quite tame.

My assessment,  throw this garbage out and start again correctly.

This is a typical kind of response from a good software developer who sees crap code.  Fair enough, but I must point out (again) that we are not investing in source code, we are investing in the algorithms, the big ideas (BCNext) and the huge community supporting NXT.

Source code clean up is a minor issue and will come as the project develops.  Some great developers have joined the NXT team (e.g. Jean-Luc) and are improving the software engineering practices as we speak.

I think the point about cleaning up, refactoring the code has been made and taken.  I think it was kind of obvious and expected by all, especially given how rapidly the software has been developed.

The truth is, sometimes big amazing ideas start out with a small bit of crappy code.  And, I think, is where NXT is.

However, let us get back to the point.  This is a code review for security issues, so let's try to focus on those.

So, perhaps FrictionlessCoin has found some non-superficial security issue he would like to share?  Or are we going to keep beating this issue to death?
1700  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nxt source code flaw reports on: January 03, 2014, 08:46:05 PM
I am curious,  is the NXT algorithm described anywhere?

A paper somewhere,  a specification or a simulation?

Or perhaps we are just making this up on the go?

Use the source.... luke... use the source....
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