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1761  Economy / Economics / Re: Long term OIL on: September 06, 2017, 03:07:22 PM
It truly is far better not to choose oil as prolonged expression investment decision.Now, there are many new power source created to substitute oil.I know the use of oil as power fuel is nonetheless substantial. But one particular working day, I'm confident we are going to substitute oil with other resource, since oil is finite in earth.

We won't know we've hit peak oil until after the fact, when the downward trend is clearly established and no foreseeable future events could spike oil consumption back past peak usage. We're probably pretty close in that I would expect us to hit peak oil within 10 years though.

It's interesting to note that when the idea of peak oil was first introduced, the author who created the concept predicted peak oil, based on the history of oil production, would be reached in the year 2000 at 12.5 billion barrels per year. In 2016, world production was 35.4 billion barrels, with slight yearly increases continuing to be projected for the time being: 35.9 billion in 2017, 36.5 billion in 2018.
1762  Economy / Economics / Re: Why You Should Never Sell Your Bitcoins Ever on: September 06, 2017, 02:48:54 PM
Reading the responses to the recent topic titled, "I would sell all my bitcoins if…." has left me concerned.

The kinds of responses on that thread reveal a deep misunderstanding of bitcoin and the current monetary system in many of those who are speculating. Let's consider the scenario in which bitcoin reaches $1000 or let's say $10,000 per bitcoin. Many have said they will cash out if bitcoin reaches this point. Why??

If bitcoin reaches $10,000 it will have to be because the fiat currencies of the world are tumbling to worthlessness via a hyperinflation type scenario and bitcoin is the safe haven, which if you know anything about the current monetary systems of the world, you know this is inevitable. (there have been 3800 fiat currencies throughout history and EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE has crashed to worthlessness; a value of zero) Why would you then sell all of your sound money (Bitcoin) for a bunch of fiat money that is inevitably becoming worthless? I don't understand the logic in doing that.

If bitcoin ever reaches $10,000 per bitcoin, you will NEVER see me selling for fiat paper money. You may however see me having a shopping spree at Overstock.com or TigerDirect.com or NewEgg.com! I will be buying things I want with my bitcoin profits DIRECTLY WITH BITCOIN, not selling my bitcoin for paper fiat. Hopefully by then there will be many more options, perhaps even Amazon.com will be accepting bitcoin for goods and I can have my shopping spree there.

Point being, selling bitcoin for dollars seems counterproductive. Why convert your paper fiat currency into sound value storing superior bitcoin, only to sell all of your superior bitcoin back for worthless antiquated fiat currency again? Why not just spend the bitcoin itself to buy what you want instead of taking a loss by converting back into dollars which will inflate away eventually anyway?

Since we are virtually halfway to what everyone would have considered at the time of this post to be a ridiculous notion (that bitcoin would anytime soon be at $10,000 when it was trading below $300), we should have enough of an idea at this point to lay waste to the assertions made in the original post that the only reason Bitcoin would be reaching $10,000 is because the fiat currencies of the world are tumbling due to hyperinflation and everyone is turning to bitcoin to flee the ravishes of the evil central bankers, dear god save us all.

With bitcoin now trading above $4500 in a not completely volatile way, it is not the failure of world currencies that has pushed bitcoin to this price, but pure speculation. The OP also misses the irony of saying that at $10,000, they will never sell for fiat but would rather go on a shopping spree at various merchants, which is the same as converting to fiat anyway. The point isn't whether or not you cash out to fiat specifically, but cash out period to lock in your gains. If you do that with fiat or consumer goods, that's a distinction without a difference; it's the same effect.

If you're sitting on a pile of gain in a speculative asset, there's no reason here (and certainly no reason provided by OP) not to take risk of the table and convert to a more stable currency, which all the major fiats of the world are compared to btc, eve though it trades at $4500.
1763  Economy / Economics / Re: You should never trust banks on: September 06, 2017, 02:36:05 PM
I guess you should rather try to defend your point

Instead of claiming that I don't understand (or misunderstand) something and should ask for help. You basically claim that Bitcoin has value because there is a working banking system (wtf, I seem to have repeated you words one by one). As to me, this is the point you should specifically address first (before asking me to go for help or elsewhere), namely, how can Bitcoin get its value from an existing banking system if Bitcoin itself is a banking system in its own right? In other words, it can exist even if the fiat banking system dies one day, and this is exactly what happened at Bitfinex. Anyway, this exchange is the largest Bitcoin exchange out there so you can't possibly discard it as a "small data point" (in short, the gods are closer to you than you think). If it really were so (as you speculate), we wouldn't see the Bitcoin price rising half a thousand dollars in a matter of two weeks (and then consolidating there). This you can't discard either and have to address as well. To sum it up, you can't discard reality for your wild fantasies

You didn't address anything of substance. You simply continued on without addressing the fact that you are claiming that trouble at bitfinex should tank bitcoin under my theory, which flat out isn't close to what I wrote. I said specifically, "when the next international financial crisis happens, people will flee bitcoin for safer assets, and the price will crash hard." You responded with 'but bitfiniex and price appreciation.'  So would you like to continue propagating the delusion that bitfinex constitutes a global financial crisis so you can try to conclude me theory to be inaccurate, or would you like to let a little more reality color your views?

It is not me who should address anything (in the first place)

It is you who said that "Bitcoin has value because there is already a robust international banking system" (as can be seen above). This is what I disagree with and which I made clear in my reply. Now you flip-flop and start claiming that "when the next international financial crisis happens..." and so on. I don't think you can jump from your first claim to the other as easily as you do (since this is not what my point is about). For example, it is like claiming that stocks derive their value from fiat (while it should be clear that their value comes from the success of the companies behind these stocks) and then proceeding to claim that when a crisis happens, the stocks will plummet. They will certainly do (and Bitcoin will likely crash too), but this, first, doesn't in the least prove that their value all of a sudden depends on "a robust international banking system" (at least, not in any meaningful degree). Second, fiat itself will likely get heavily wasted in such circumstances (in terms of its purchasing power) with the "international banking system" disintegrating (in the extreme case). And, finally, this is not what I challenge. Anyway, stocks had existed long before there was any international banking system (or just banking system, for that matter), so there is no reason to claim that "Bitcoin has value because there is already a robust international banking system". This is what you should prove, not that Bitcoin will crash in case of an economic meltdown. Hope this helps


As far as stocks go, since the market is a forward looking construct, stocks trade on anticipated future earnings. When a financial crisis hits and those future earnings are in doubt, stocks trade down towards their actual worth, and many times below book value. This is entirely different from bitcoin, the value of which is entirely made up of economic excess because there is no inherent value in bitcoin. The inherent value of the stock is the liquidation value. Trading above the liquidation value is speculative, which is why that excess disappears in a financial crisis. Bitcoin is entirely speculative. In a global financial crisis, the only people holding bitcoin will be those who can still afford to speculate, and stocks will trade near book/liquidation value, also with any excess by those who can still afford to speuclate on the recovery.

And how does that support you claim?

I don't get it, really. You basically say (in your previous posts) that a robust international banking system gives value to Bitcoin and stocks. I cannot possibly agree with this claim. As to me, it pretty much sounds like claiming that stocks and Bitcoin have value because an asteroid doesn't hit the Earth since otherwise (if it hit the Earth) the stocks (as well as Bitcoin) wouldn't have any value. Indeed, they would be quite worthless in that very case, but it doesn't in the least mean that asteroids give value to these assets

That whole paragraph is the support of the claim. To try and re-word it: a robust international banking system has created the wealth of our current globalized economy. The wealth and stability of our economy gives people the economic freedom and confidence to chase speculative investments (because they're not worried they need all their resources just to survive and can risk those assets to attempt to acquire more assets). If you withdraw economic confidence (such as in a massive recession/depression), all the speculative assets would decrease in value as people rush to protect their wealth against the backdrop of economic uncertainty. When the future is in doubt, there's outsized risk in speculation, so the only people speculating on risky assets are people who are not in financial jeopardy and can afford it. This contrasts to the current economic and market conditions where there are a lot of people who can afford to speculate

How can that possibly be?

Note that I basically agree that a robust international banking system contributes greatly to the creation of wealth but to say that it is directly creating wealth is along the same lines as pretending that money itself creates wealth or is the wealth in its own right. In other words, if you had all the required facilities for the banking system to operate but without the actual factories, plants, and people working there, this system itself would never create a penny of wealth on its own. Without actual production it would be utterly useless and wasteful

In that scenario, the asteroid doesn't give assets value; the lack of the asteroid does. It's because we're certain that there will be a future that anything has any value, because value is very future-dependent.

But that's outright bullshit. It is like claiming that everything derives its value from the lack of something that would destroy this value. This is tautology at best and casuistry at worst

It's not tautology, it's a truism. It's true because it's true. Obviously everything has value because of a lack of something that would destroy that value. It's so obvious it's not even interesting to point out. But that's the nature of value nonetheless, in that value is forward-looking. Remove the certainty of future survival and all assets lose value.

As for the first statement, I agree. "Creates" is the wrong verb; I should be saying it "enables." In this change, it is more accurate and the central premise of my point remains. The excess economic output enabled by a robust international banking system allows for bitcoin as a speculative asset to retain a lot of speculative value. And in a devastating international crisis or global economic depression, all speculative assets will lose value as people turn to guarding wealth rather trying to expand it by taking on risk.
1764  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What's going on? Bitcoin for the rich only? on: September 06, 2017, 02:21:26 PM
Hi,

Even just a year ago bitcoin was useable... now the fees are about 10x what the banks charge. Seems like its changing from a peer-to-peer money system for everyone into yet another convenient way for rich people to exchange funds!

What went wrong> And more to the point, who is responsible? What can be done to fix it?
Thanks
Andy

That's not a conscious choice, just an unintended consequence of being popular.  The price has risen to the point where only the rich can afford to buy quantities of bitcoin at a time, but that's no different from any other pricey asset or luxury item for that matter. It's not designed that way, and no one is conspiring for it to be that way now either.  It just is what it is.

The fee issue was a confluence of limited block space and too many transactions (including many illegitimate spam transactions intended to drive up the price). But transaction fees are market-based here. If bitcoin can't do anything to keep them in line, it will largely lose its utility as a cheap value transfer mechanism, and thus a lot of the reason for using it, which will result in a decreased price.
1765  Economy / Economics / Re: panic selling on: September 05, 2017, 10:21:33 PM
I dont see any chance that there will be panic selling before this year ends. Im guessing that bitcoin will reach 5000$ or even higher. As you can see at the current price of bitcoin is at $4000 and the demand is still increasing  and might reached 5000$ the next month.
There will be a panic selling who does want to have a slight profit when bitcoins dumps then to sell but if it pumps or dumps more they are going to be panic selling. This is what i observe to the bitcoins holders.
Yep, bitcoin holders do panic selling when they show some dumping. Especially the new traders get panicked and decide to give up on their coins to safe their investments. They should believe in bitcoins whether bitcoins are dumping or pumping. Bitcoins are having potential of creating new rich people.
I think panic selling does not happen only on when dump? But when the price of pump also usually occur panic selling. Maybe you can advise users not to panic selling when the price is dump. Namely by trust and patience. But what about panic selling when the price of pump? what will you advise for them ?


usually who feels panic is a new person in the world of trading he was shocked to see an uncertain market situation, but if the old players then he will seting to the targeted price, at least he can take quick steps to sell if when the target number pump is not touched


I think people should not follow the trend, they should trust the bitcoins. Though the price are falling, there will be a recovery in future so there is no need to panic.

Blind faith gets lots of people in trouble. I'm sure during the deflating Tulip bubble, there was some guy thinking exactly the same thing, and what do you suppose all his faith got him? Any asset bubble is prone to pop without warning and for no specific reason other than it ran out of steam and everyone ran for the exits. At times, bitcoin resembles too much of a bubble for me to consider it not to be a foregone conclusion.
1766  Economy / Economics / Re: Long term OIL on: September 05, 2017, 10:08:16 PM
Oil seems to be inching higher, with US crude supplies declining on a continuous basis.
US supplies seem to be the marginal supplies which move the markets.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/oil-prices-rebound-ahead-of-us-supply-data-2017-08-22

Since the US is the only market with dependable and transparent numbers on supply and production, it's generally that the larger global oil market moves in conjunction with the most reliable data available, and since the US is reporting down numbers and releasing oil from the strategic reserve due to disruptions by Hurricane Harvey, that's likely why you're seeing oil prices up now.
1767  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash on: September 05, 2017, 10:00:36 PM
The blocks in BTC are full, filled with about 2000 transactions each block.
The one full block on the BTH chain had 37K transactions. That means the BTH blocks can store in a little more than an hour what BTC blocks needs nearly a day for.
Whether the BCH pool is invulnerable or not, only time will show. But it clearly has a better chances to do so.
Taking away hashpower is another cause that leads to the same problem, but I think it needs to be dealt with separately.

That would be a simplistic comparison. The blocks in BCH are around 8 MB, where as with the implementation of Segwit, the blocksize is around 2 MB in BTC. So it means that 4x of transactions can be stored in BCH. But the blocks are much slower to find there...

I don't think that the BCH blocks are slower to find. I am checking the Bitcoin Cash Blockchain (in blockchair.com), and I could see new blocks being mined every 5 minuets or so. On on the other hand, Blockchain.info is showing new Bitcoin blocks only once every 20 or 25 minutes.
That’s good for the survival of bitcoin cash. I guess miners are very much interested into this coin and if they keep supporting it, this coin will pump high but currently, it is at very bad price. As far as bitcoin cash and bitcoin comparison is concerned, I don’t think so this kiddo coin can ever be able to stand next to bitcoins.

How is it at a very bad price? They manufactured this coin out of thin air and it's maintained a multi-billion dollar market cap since inception, which ostensibly means they manufactured billions of dollars worth of value out of thin air and based on nothing.  And there has been enough buying activity to support this valuation for weeks now. I wouldn't at all consider that a "bad price." It's damn near a miracle, and pretty fortunate for anyone with BCash that they haven't been crushed by a wave of sellers.
1768  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Cartel manipulating mining difficulty? on: September 05, 2017, 09:55:29 PM
And here we go again:



I'm curious if there is still anyone who is doubting that miners are making full use of the opportunity to earn more profits by moving their hashpower to and fro. Note that the BCash hashrate has dropped almost to zero, i.e. virtually no one is mining this coin presently (obviously till the next difficulty adjustment). By the way, people are massively buying up litecoins right now, the price has risen a whopping 20% within mere 12 hours today and continues to rise. It kinda looks folks are not quite happy with the miners' abuse of power and choose just to walk away from Bitcoin. Any Bitcoin, for that matter

I certainly concur with your analysis about the purposeful targeting of mining, but I don't think it's intended to be abusive. It's just following the money. When it's more profitable to mine BCash, that's where a sizable group of miners go.  When they run the difficulty up to the point where it's more profitable to switch back to Bitcoin, they do.  I don't see anything currently that suggests it's intending to be abusive rather than intending to optimize income.
1769  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash on: August 18, 2017, 12:05:51 AM
You again make a few very loose assumptions

Okay, you have your coins doubled (regular Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash), so if the old network gets congested, you explicitly assume that you could switch to using Bitcoin Cash and transact with it. Basically, you openly say that yourself. What you don't say but still implicitly assume (and this is where your implicit assumption goes awry on the whole) is that everyone is in the same boat with you, i.e. they are ready to accept Bitcoin Cash transfers instead of regular bitcoins. Obviously, this is a false assumption in general, and then we are back to what I've been saying before, namely, that you didn't check if your "theory" would actually work in practice. Besides that, I don't think that Bitcoin Cash is more viable alternative than other altcoins since, as I just said, you can't expect people to still hold these pseudo bitcoins (for the sake of solving their future transaction issues with the regular one)

if you weren't so caught up in your own ego, but your superiority complex makes conversing with you a major chore sometimes

As I also told you, I don't particularly care if someone is wrong or confused, so it is more about your ego not going to accept being confused here. I could even say that it is it exactly which is playing a dirty trick on you

Since the network is identical at the split, you have the burden of proof I suppose of arguing against the notion that there isn't already a system in place that can pick up where it left off at the split point. So yes, while I am assuming that merchants or people who were accepting bitcoin could just as easily accept BCH, since the network is a clone, the addresses are a clone, the private keys are a clone, etc., it seems logical to me that people abandoning the unusable network would find the least friction in taking up the BCH network. If you are a merchant or consumer using Bitcoin, what's preventing you from switching to BCH? Especially if you've already got coins there and especially if the network is gaining favor with the masses amidst a general increase in unusability of the BTC network. That's not to say any transition would be seamless or pick up where BTC left off months after the split, only that it offers the least friction to cross over. Also, any switch wouldn't happen instantaneously. Bitcoin wouldn't suddenly be "unusable" in one instant where it was perfectly usable the instant before. It would be a long, slow march towards unusability, just like last time, and as people become increasingly more frustrated with delays and high fees and the developer's overall inability or unwillingness to address the issue, there will already be a nearly identical system that can address the capacity problem, and as bitcoin loses favor over time, BCH will increase in value as it becomes more viable

As others have said the network is different

I don't really know whether it is true or not, but if I'm not mistaken, it was the exchanges' condition and requirement that the wannabe Bitcoin should solve the replay issue if its creators wanted it to be listed there. So I guess they should have made the network incompatible to avoid the possibility of replay attacks (since we see BCH tokens listed at most if not all major exchanges by now). But ultimately this is irrelevant since your assumption falls apart at another level. You essentially say that there is nothing that would prevent both merchants and consumers from accepting Bitcoin Cash if the regular Bitcoin is stuck or fails. Even if technically it were so (which it is not), I still couldn't agree with this view. If we are to face the facts, many exchanges (if not all again) suspended even genuine Bitcoin deposits and withdrawals for some time to avoid possible repercussions from the introduction of Bitcoin Cash (until the dust settled). In this way, I can't possibly see how all these people you mentioned could be willing to accept Bitcoin Cash. That would likely wreak total havoc in their accounting unless they are going to accept it as just another payment currency. But then it would be no different from accepting, say, Litecoin, or any other altcoin. Thus your assumption is untenable and not plausible conceptually, not just technically

First, thank you for the more cordial tone. Your posts are much more interesting to read when they're just presenting your ideas and not attacking.

Can you explain what you mean about relay attacks and exchanges? Not sure I'm following that part.

What is "technically" not possible about accepting BCH payments in addition or as opposed to BTC? I don't understand this logic. Let's say I'm a merchant. I accept BTC for goods/services. In order to do so, I need only to have a BTC address. If I wanted to take BCH, all I would need is a BCH address. How is there a technical barrier there? Accordingly, there is no barrier stopping merchants from taking any other alt as payment either on a technical level. So the second pin of my premise is that just like every other alt is failing to win over against Bitcoin, there's no reason to think they would win over against BCH either. If BTC goes down, something is likely to become the dominant replacement, and if the BTC demise is attributable directly to capacity issues, it makes more sense to me that the closest alt to BTC and solves for its weakness takes its place. I believe that would more likely be BCH at this point than anything else.
1770  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin or gold? on: August 17, 2017, 11:55:20 PM
I'm surprised how many people chose gold on a btc forum. Gold seems like a pretty crappy "investment", more like a hedge against collapse. Is it going to appreciate by 10% a year? I'd chose stocks and bitcoin.

Gold historically has been exactly that, a hedge against disaster or a failsafe to preserve wealth in uncertain economic conditions. The volatility exhibited by Bitcoin is great when it's on an overall upward trend has it has been for months, but everyone forgets how terrible it was owning Bitcoin at $200 for a year after it was trading at $800 and people were wondering if it would ever see those highs again.
1771  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash on: August 17, 2017, 11:47:08 PM
Since the network is identical at the split, you have the burden of proof I suppose of arguing against the notion that there isn't already a system in place that can pick up where it left off at the split point. So yes, while I am assuming that merchants or people who were accepting bitcoin could just as easily accept BCH, since the network is a clone, the addresses are a clone, the private keys are a clone, etc., it seems logical to me that people abandoning the unusable network would find the least friction in taking up the BCH network.

This just means that transaction format is similar and the UTXO set has been copied. I don't see how, in practice, Bitcoin Cash is different than other altcoins. It's similarly easy for merchants/services to accept other altcoins. The BTC network has certainly not been cloned; BTC users carrying on normally can't see activity on the BCH network. It's incompatible, ignored by their nodes.

The only thing that separates Bitcoin Cash (or Segwit2x) from other altcoins is marketing. The fact is that any hard fork is an altcoin. Fair enough, maybe we will all be using some altcoin in the future rather than Bitcoin.

If you are a merchant or consumer using Bitcoin, what's preventing you from switching to BCH?

Network activity, demand. Just like any other altcoin.

That's not a prediction of what will happen, that's my opinion of what is the most likely outcome if bitcoin can't solve capacity.

There are wealthy interests in the Bitcoin space with a lot of money to market their BTC fork and spam/attack the BTC network. And they also have a lot of BTC to dump. I don't think they'll prevail, but they (Bitmain, Roger Ver, etc.) are nothing to sneeze at.

Yes, I agree with your definition that any hard fork is an alt. And further that BCH is an alt. I would like for it to prove to be just like every other alt, but I'm not convinced it is. Let me refine a statement though that you pointed out, the network isn't a clone (since network is made up by the participants and by defintion has to be different), but the network infrastructure is a clone at the split point. The thing that differentiates BCH from just another alt is that anyone currently transacting in BTC already has funds in BCH and switching or adding BCH requires less friction than a substantially different blockchain.

As for you answering my question: what's preventing you from switching to BCH, you responded then network and demand. That's partially my point. If the BTC network once again proves unable to scale and handle the capacity crunch, then you don't have even that, and if inertia is the only thing keeping BTC the larger ecosystem, I think you'll see parity or eventually BCH emerge as the winner if BTC can't get its act together.
1772  Economy / Economics / Re: panic selling on: August 17, 2017, 11:31:59 PM
What if somebody will make a huge dump and sell it all the way to earn some profits because of this rally in bitcoin,and someone sees it and do that same thing. Is there any effect on bitcoin when someone to this,?
It will somehow affect the demand IF there'll more to do the same. Demand is important to Bitcoin because Bitcoin's value depends on its market's demand. And if the demand is low , the price will dump. But in that case, I'm sure no one will do the same thing. Or it won't be tolerated by others, especially those who invested a huge amount of money.

Ha ha... If people were thinking about selling after the rally in June, I wonder what they will do now. Profit booking is one thing, in this rally everybody is massively in the green.  People who bought at $3000 have made 30%+ profits.  Grin 

In the world of Bitcoin, this stretch of upward momentum is quite unprecedented when taking into account the amount of overall dollars this price appreciation represents. I rather suspect that downward pressure for any length of time will cause all manner of doomsday prognosticators to start telling us all how smart they were to predict it.
1773  Economy / Economics / Re: If Bitcoin goes up very high should i buy a house? on: August 17, 2017, 11:31:40 PM

Some people seem to think buying a house in bitcoin will save you tax money. Regardless of how you buy your house, you're going to have to pay taxes on it when you sell. If you're buying a house with bitcoin, you're still going to use the USD equivalent for tax purposes. All real estate transactions are registered with a county or local government office, you cannot buy a house anonymously. You will also still be subject to real estate taxes while owning, not just when you sell. Bitcoin does nothing to help you evade taxes on real estate.
1774  Economy / Economics / Re: panic selling on: August 17, 2017, 11:23:00 PM
^ Most idiotic comment ever

Why would anyone hold stuff which will fall?Huh?

I diasagree. He means the falling is a temporary thing, so why to sell at low price and thus making it to drop even more? Remember 2014 when people who bought at $1,200 were panic selling at $800. They should have hold their coins and now they would be in profit.

Or they could have sold them at $800 and bought back in at $200, which is what bitcoin ended up dropping to. People who were selling at $800 in 2014 were ultimately right for a long time, and had plenty of time to buy in at far lower prices. The point is nobody knows the falling price is a temporary thing. Bitcoin is not guaranteed to go back up, not now and not ever

That's why trading purely financial assets is a sort of gambling

I have explained it many times, namely, that whatever strategy you may follow, you are set to lose in the long run unless you can milk the market somehow (i.e. you are an insider, arbitrageur or exchange itself). Moreover, I also often repeat that Bitcoin as such is poor investment for long term (though it is still a nice vehicle for short term speculations) since it is too risky on a long enough timeframe

This viewpoint violates a very widely accepted concept that markets get more valuable over time. All the great wealth generated via equity holdings has come from long time horizons. Even in Bitcoin, the greatest gains have come from sitting on coins you own, not actively trading them where you open yourself to daily volatilit risk. Holding since 2012 would have made you far richer than trying to trade your coins on a daily basis (in all likelihood).
1775  Economy / Economics / Re: What is your best investment strategy? on: August 10, 2017, 10:52:55 PM
I essentially agree with what you said

The point which I want to stress specifically is that it is of no particular advantage if you invest in more than 3-4 different classes of assets (which could be simplified to investing in just 3-4 different assets). If you try to go for more, you will be risking more simply because you won't be able to keep track of all your investments and thus you won't be able to follow the trends which these assets follow (read you will fail to jump the sinking ship in time). In this way, you will be effectively multiplying risks instead of profit opportunities (which is what diversification ultimately comes down to)

I'm not sure who applicable stock investing translates to here, but many financial experts don't consider you properly diversified until you have 8-15 different stocks, across different industries as well. I wouldn't count alts as appropriate diversification. Crypto as a whole would be only one industry. As Bitcoin goes, the others tend to follow.

What is the net worth of these so-called "financial experts"?

I guess people who blindly follow some shitty mathematics (hail to Harry Markowitz) and think they are insured from going bust should better learn more about LTCM and their pathetic fate. The common sense makes it evident that if you have 15 different investment assets (and these should obviously be in entirely different fields if you are looking for genuine "diversification"), you will know nothing of any of them, so you will be basically gambling in the hope that they will follow their previous price patterns in the future (which is a sure way to lose in the long run). As Warren Buffett once said (and I'm totally with him in this matter), if you have a harem of 40 women, you never get to know any of them

I don't know what kind of "common sense" you're advocating, but it seems counterintuitive to me. I own twelve different stocks and am perfectly able to keep up with the pertinent information on all of them. If you can't find time to read the company's quarterly reports and market expectations filed with the SEC, you're not taking your ownership stake in the company seriously enough (imo). Most individual investors don't invest themselves though and outsource the research to financial advisers, which is a robust industry in the US, further negating your concerns on how futile diversification is

You are contradicting your own claims

Which you made previously and which you make now. At first you said that you wouldn't count alts as appropriate diversification since crypto as a whole should be considered as only one industry (which I sort of agree with). But then you proceed to say that you yourself own twelve different stocks (and are perfectly able to track all of them in a timely fashion). Given that, I could just as well say that all stocks as a whole are essentially one industry. If the stock market goes down (think Bitcoin here), most stocks will go down too (like altcoins go down along with Bitcoin). Note that I'm just following your own logic. In this way, you are "not properly diversified" either. In other words, your twelve stocks can be basically thought of as just one stock (and still more so if reading quarterly reports and whatever the SEC files will suffice), which is quite in line with my reasoning. Regarding Buffett and friends, it should be obvious that Buffett is not controlling all the investments that Berkshire does, and in a sense, yes, he (together with Munger) likely doesn't know much about most of them provided Berkshire is in fact as diversified as you claim it to be

I see your point, but I don't consider what I said to be contradiction. First of all, I was speaking only in regards to stocks, which do not comprise 100% of my investments. I also own bonds, real estate, and crypto as well as short-term notes. The diversification was only in respect to the equity portion of my investments.

So I suppose there are two types of diversification, and I was speaking about the smaller set. There's diversification across investment types (what the asset is: stock, bond, real estate, commodity, crypto, etc.) and there's diversification across industries which is most commonly (but not exclusively) used in relation to equity investing. If you're invested 50% in stocks and 25% in bonds and 25% in real estate, and all your stocks are in one industry, I wouldn't consider that diversified. You could be well-diversified inside crytpo (10% across 10 different coins) but equating 100% of your investments and I wouldn't consider that diversified in the larger sense either, since crypto by and large is dominated by btc, and whatever btc does it for the most part drags every other coin with it. In equity investing, there are defensive stocks that perform better in recessions than growth stocks which are very dependent on good economic conditions. So there are several ways to get at diversification, but in each case it's going to depend on the facts of the case. I would say a general way to put it is you're diversified if a general event doesn't impact all your investments at the same time. (Exceptions for catastrophic market events, which will drop everything, because you can never be diversified to the point where you never experience losses.)
1776  Economy / Economics / Re: The Feds Are Terrified Of Cryptocurrencies... But They're Powerless To Stop Them on: August 10, 2017, 10:38:33 PM
But that distinction can in fact make a tremendous difference

In other words, it may be quite feasible and doable to disrupt the PoW network provided enough resources are put into mining, and you are sort of guaranteed to succeed at bringing the network down. At the same time, the mission of accumulating enough coins in the PoS model may be virtually impossible since as soon as you start buying up, the price is set to spike exponentially. And whatever the price might be, you still might not be able to make it simply because some holders won't sell at any price. And then you are stuck

But again, this operates on the notion that the only way to disrupt a PoS system is to seize control of it, rather than disrupting it's ability to propagate a network by attacking or taking offline the computers that make it up, does it not? Even under PoW, you don't have to seize control of it to render it unusable, you just have to destabilize it to the point that blocks can be corrupted.  (I say "just" knowing this would be a technical feat.) But I would think that you could hamper the system the same way by disrupting the network activity in PoS. Theoretically, what happens if a wallet with 51% of a PoS coinbase is not connected to the network? I would think they don't get to solve any blocks, otherwise the network would grind to a halt. If 51% of the coinbase in PoS is not connected to the network, doesn't that degrade network security the same way as taking out a large portion of the mining power making up PoW? My guess would be yes, but I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

Strictly speaking, I don't know

Since there are many varieties of the PoS model out there, and some of them can surely address that point in a coherent way. Personally, I'm inclined to think that if 51% of all nodes just plug off from the network without doing anything nasty behind the scenes, nothing particularly dangerous is going to happen. Regarding your other point (that of crushing part of the network), indeed if you shut down the whole Internet (or some part thereof) or just divide it into independent segments, this won't bode well for any coin, but this is certainly beyond the scope of issues addressed by these models. It is like saying that you could severely damage a coin by starting an all-out nuclear holocaust but this certainly won't be a blow aimed against this coin specifically (which is sort of assumed)

Do you own any PoS personally? I dabbled in Clams for awhile but found I didn't particularly like it as a currency. The fast blocks are a nice thing to have, but the inflation rate I didn't find particularly beneficial. Although I suppose that over time, the inflation rate becomes more and more insignificant as a proportion of the overall coinbase, but that also requires a more robust use-case than Clam had at the time I stopped following it. Perhaps it's still the case, but at the time its main utility was as a gambling token for Just-Dice.

No, I don't have any PoS coins

But if I'm not mistakes clams were specifically intended as a sort of substitute for bitcoins in gambling since online gambling is prohibited in Canada (Just-Dice and its owner dooglus seem to be from Canada). I don't know how well it worked out since I'm not much into gambling anyway (at least, not after the PrimeDice times). That said, I still hope that Litecoin (which I'm slowly moving my cryptowealth to) will switch to this model eventually

Clams pre-seeded everyone who had a btc, doge, or litecoin address as of a certain date I believe with a certain amount of clams. It kind of went nowhere for awhile until it became the official token of JD. I don't know if it was always intended that way or if he just capitalized on a new coin that he liked the distribution method of. Doog is from Canada, but it's unclear to me how he expected Clams to be legal where bitcoin wasn't on his dice site. I claimed all the clams I was entitled to and followed it for awhile. I eventually sold out of it because it's just another alt with no utility outside of JD in my opinion.

Interesting though, why do you want Litecoin to switch to PoS?
1777  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash on: August 10, 2017, 10:28:04 PM
<some grumbling skipped>

It is not me disagreeing with your opinion

Because when I disagree, I just state that right away (and you know that), but in this very case you were evidently assuming that people could somehow effortlessly move their funds between the two coins or otherwise use them interchangeably ("you've got a clone with the capacity to handle the extra transactions") and choose the best coin to transact with as they see appropriate (as if the coins still remained essentially the one and same, just before the split). This is where you got confused. What extra transactions are you talking about? Obviously, this is impossible since after the split these are two entirely different coins. Your claim that Bitcoin Cash (allegedly) has some right or legitimacy to be called Bitcoin is completely irrelevant and inconsequential to the point (as you should understand). Other than that, I could just ask you why you don't humbly accept that you got confused? It is not so much about you being wrong or confused, or whatever as about you trying to stick to some clearly erroneous view or trying to come unscrewed by any means (that's what makes it so fun to comment on)

Well let's back up a step then. Because I think you've incorrectly assumed something about what I believe. I do not think that people can effortlessly move between one chain and the other. At the split though, anyone who had BTC now have the same amount of BCH, so the user base is essentially pre-installed in BCH. If BTC seizes up and becomes unstable or unusable, you don't have to move your bitcoins off that chain or convert them to BCH, you already have those coins (up to the split point, anything done with BTC after that isn't reflected on the BCH chain). BCH's threat to BTC is if the BTC blockchain can't handle future capacity and BCH reaches price parity with BTC, because then user aren't losing money by abandoning the unusable network (TO A POINT, this is not an absolute), you're incentivized to use the functioning network and because of price parity and the fact that your coins are waiting for you there (up to that split point), it lessens the switching costs as opposed to any other alt trying to supplant BTC as the dominant crypto

You again make a few very loose assumptions

Okay, you have your coins doubled (regular Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash), so if the old network gets congested, you explicitly assume that you could switch to using Bitcoin Cash and transact with it. Basically, you openly say that yourself. What you don't say but still implicitly assume (and this is where your implicit assumption goes awry on the whole) is that everyone is in the same boat with you, i.e. they are ready to accept Bitcoin Cash transfers instead of regular bitcoins. Obviously, this is a false assumption in general, and then we are back to what I've been saying before, namely, that you didn't check if your "theory" would actually work in practice. Besides that, I don't think that Bitcoin Cash is more viable alternative than other altcoins since, as I just said, you can't expect people to still hold these pseudo bitcoins (for the sake of solving their future transaction issues with the regular one)

if you weren't so caught up in your own ego, but your superiority complex makes conversing with you a major chore sometimes

As I also told you, I don't particularly care if someone is wrong or confused, so it is more about your ego not going to accept being confused here. I could even say that it is it exactly which is playing a dirty trick on you

Since the network is identical at the split, you have the burden of proof I suppose of arguing against the notion that there isn't already a system in place that can pick up where it left off at the split point. So yes, while I am assuming that merchants or people who were accepting bitcoin could just as easily accept BCH, since the network is a clone, the addresses are a clone, the private keys are a clone, etc., it seems logical to me that people abandoning the unusable network would find the least friction in taking up the BCH network. If you are a merchant or consumer using Bitcoin, what's preventing you from switching to BCH? Especially if you've already got coins there and especially if the network is gaining favor with the masses amidst a general increase in unusability of the BTC network. That's not to say any transition would be seamless or pick up where BTC left off months after the split, only that it offers the least friction to cross over. Also, any switch wouldn't happen instantaneously. Bitcoin wouldn't suddenly be "unusable" in one instant where it was perfectly usable the instant before. It would be a long, slow march towards unusability, just like last time, and as people become increasingly more frustrated with delays and high fees and the developer's overall inability or unwillingness to address the issue, there will already be a nearly identical system that can address the capacity problem, and as bitcoin loses favor over time, BCH will increase in value as it becomes more viable.

Now, obviously, that is all opinion, as any projection is. That's not a prediction of what will happen, that's my opinion of what is the most likely outcome if bitcoin can't solve capacity. I am rooting against BCH, and I want BTC to remain the predominant crypto. But Bitcoin is not magic. It's 100% fungible and any crypto can replace it with relative ease. Its only advantage is inertia at this point. If it squanders that and allows BCH to reach price parity amidst a capacity crisis, that may the irreversible tipping point.
1778  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash on: August 09, 2017, 10:45:57 PM
The price of bitcoin just surged past $3000 a few days after the split. Goes to show how strong the support for bitcoin is and I am almost sure that it is just going to get stronger. I don't have anything against bitcoin cash because it too has its own supporters, albeit not as many as bitcoin, but we will see how long they can continue to support it at the expense of lesser mining fees.

I'm more interested to see what kind of "split" might develop after the November hard fork. The Segwit2x camp is supported by big money: companies, miners, exchanges. But I also think that there is a significant contingent within the Bitcoin community that will oppose such a hard fork (and might oppose any hard fork, not matter what).

It's true that it seems silly to try to hard fork so soon after implementing Segwit. Why not give it some time to see how it alleviates network congestion? Why not see how the Lightning Network develops first?

Because part of the compromise to pass SegWit was a promise to implement a doubling of the block size within 3 months of the the SegWit activation. I believe this was to appease the large faction of people who believed that SegWit would not be enough, and even with SegWit2x in the plans, a large faction still believed it wouldn't allow proper scaling, and that's where the last hard fork came from. BCH is the group that split away hoping to provide their own answer to the scaling problem (8 mb blocks, no SegWit).
1779  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash on: August 09, 2017, 10:22:44 PM
<some grumbling skipped>

It is not me disagreeing with your opinion

Because when I disagree, I just state that right away (and you know that), but in this very case you were evidently assuming that people could somehow effortlessly move their funds between the two coins or otherwise use them interchangeably ("you've got a clone with the capacity to handle the extra transactions") and choose the best coin to transact with as they see appropriate (as if the coins still remained essentially the one and same, just before the split). This is where you got confused. What extra transactions are you talking about? Obviously, this is impossible since after the split these are two entirely different coins. Your claim that Bitcoin Cash (allegedly) has some right or legitimacy to be called Bitcoin is completely irrelevant and inconsequential to the point (as you should understand). Other than that, I could just ask you why you don't humbly accept that you got confused? It is not so much about you being wrong or confused, or whatever as about you trying to stick to some clearly erroneous view or trying to come unscrewed by any means (that's what makes it so fun to comment on)

Well let's back up a step then. Because I think you've incorrectly assumed something about what I believe. I do not think that people can effortlessly move between one chain and the other. At the split though, anyone who had BTC now have the same amount of BCH, so the user base is essentially pre-installed in BCH. If BTC seizes up and becomes unstable or unusable, you don't have to move your bitcoins off that chain or convert them to BCH, you already have those coins (up to the split point, anything done with BTC after that isn't reflected on the BCH chain). BCH's threat to BTC is if the BTC blockchain can't handle future capacity and BCH reaches price parity with BTC, because then user aren't losing money by abandoning the unusable network (TO A POINT, this is not an absolute), you're incentivized to use the functioning network and because of price parity and the fact that your coins are waiting for you there (up to that split point), it lessens the switching costs as opposed to any other alt trying to supplant BTC as the dominant crypto.

Extra transactions? Do you expect we've already reached peak BTC transactions? Because if not, those are the extra transactions I'm talking about.  The future transactions above and beyond the current rates as BTC continues to grow. My opinion is (and this has to be the part you're disagreeing with, otherwise you don't have a point here) if BTC becomes unusable because it can't handle future capacity, BCH is a more likely alternative than any other current altcoin. I don't think BCH has a legitimate claim to BTC's legacy, but there are people who do, and ultimately that's a consensus thing. You can disagree with it, but if everyone else thinks so, your opinion doesn't matter. That's what I'm acknowledging as a possibility, and adding the opinion that BCH has more of a chance to claim that mantle than any other alt because of all the other reasons I listed above.

Do you see how pedantic arguing about confusion is? Because I could belabor the point about how confused you must be to not understand what an opinion is or how you're advocating your own opinion if I was equally as obsessed with sticking you with a label rather than having a conversation. You'd be a whole lot more interesting to discuss this with if you weren't so caught up in your own ego, but your superiority complex makes conversing with you a major chore sometimes. I am interested in having a more productive conversation that discusses ideas rather than getting caught up in strutting around on the boards in your own self-righteousness, if you've any interest in that. Bceause I can be convinced my opinion about BCH is wrong with a compelling, reasoned argument, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that basing your entire post in the premise that I'm confused or your disagreement isn't a disagreement is not compelling reading.
1780  Economy / Economics / Re: Can Bitcoin Volatility Be Controlled? on: August 09, 2017, 10:01:05 PM
Bitcoin's volatility will never be controlled, just look at other commodities like gold and see the big swings that happen there. Even fiat currencies often have large swings in their valuation.

"Big swings" is relative. Neither gold, silver, or other mainstream commodities, and especially not fiat, see volatility on the order that crypto has experienced in its short lifetime. Gold on rare occasions can swing 10% in a day, and that's a big move. Crypto routinely swings 20% or more in a day. Fiat is generally more stable than gold, and a few percent in a single day is a dramatic move. (Fiat during hyperinflation is another matter, it's not common and not normal, and is generally a one-way track.)

You forget to mention another commodity

Which perfectly cuts it as a mainstream one and which has volatility quite on par with that of Bitcoin. I obviously refer to crude oil which you kinda forget to mention. I guess it is as mainstream as mainstream itself is concerned, and it is not uncommon to see huge swings in the price of this commodity within a couple of days (up to a few dozen percentages). And it is not just about short-term volatility either. Long-term volatility of crude oil is also quite remarkable. But you certainly know that even better than myself

Yes, a perfectly fine addition to the list of mainstream commodities, but I wouldn't go so far as to say oil has volatility like bitcoin. How often does oil trade on swings as large as bitcoin in as short a time? Oil is comparative to gold and silver, but not bitcoin. In addition to oil, gold and silver have the ability to trade "a few dozen" percent in a few days time, but not nearly as frequently as bitcoin. Bitcoin's volatility I would put a whole magnitude higher, both in terms of the percentage swings, the time frame those swings occur (which are shorter), and especially in the frequency with which those swings occur in those time frames.
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