|
If someone announces a pre-sale with a name, he should be prepared to prove that it is actually his name, to protect anyone who really does have that name. Otherwise, don't post a name, just use a nym and plan on convincing people of the authenticity of the offer in other ways. This is the best way, anyway.
|
|
|
|
This is NOT an IPO
You actually said something I can agree with. These pre-sales should not be called IPOs, which is why I avoid using the term to refer to them. The closest thing to conventional start-up financing is seed funding, a pre-series A. BTW, it is currently impossible to file crowdfunding paperwork with the SEC since they are 9 months overdue in issuing the implementing regulations for crowdfunding for the JOBS Act. |
|
|
|
Seriously...half of me sense that this is the scam but the other half argues that this is an innovative coin and I should invest....Levelcoin needs more transparency
You will need to see a working system before you send any investments. Might be better to wait for the Kickstarter. 10% is probably worth the reduction in risk since Kickstarter requires a working prototype and an account to get listed. |
|
|
|
|
I'd kinda dropped the issue because it doesn't really matter to current NXT investors whether or not I was included in the presale, other than it may reflect on the character of the founders on how it was handled. It is really in my best interests for money to stay in or flow to NXT instead of going into Ethereum, where it would dilute my planned investment. Other than the way the presale was handled, NXT seems like a good investment. It just pushes my hot button, though, when the NXT presale issue comes up in these other threads.
|
|
|
|
There was NO valuation prior to the Genesis Block.
Once the NXT's distributed, they were immediately traded on 1BTC / 1M rates, with a x47 multiplier for these who invested 1 BTC, that just kept pushing the price further within a very short amount of time, without any actual innovative features provided by Nxt. Here at least we have a predictable ROI for everyone. How can there be a multiplier if there was NO prior valuation? 0.000001 NXT/BTC was the first market rate. When NXT was first offered for sale at a price for .000001 BTC, the cost of goods sold was 0.000000021 BTC/NXT. This is a 4762% markup over the original purchase price. The fact that no price per NXT was announced during the pre-sale has no bearing on what the original cost was of what was being resold. +1, exactly what I was about to say. This valuation jump (caused by artificial shortage, created by the abrupt fundraiser ending) is exactly what caused every investor and his dog to be in panic they are missing "the next BTC" train, and subsequently driven the the valuations to where we see them at this point, without any actual tangible proof of value up to this very moment, and without any clear indication it will hold once Ethereum or any other competing platform enters the market. The donations dropped off and most people were calling scam. Lets assume it went till Jan 3rd a few more dozen people decided to throw some btc in. The results would have been the EXACT SAME. 150 people might as well be 73. The difference is, Nxt would be 2 months behind on development, promotion, community building, etc. It's a null argument. And really all of this is based on hindsight. Clearly we can see NOW that Nxt is worth something. At the time there was no way to tell if it was a scam, if it would end at one new feature, if the proposed features would be fatally broken or dysfunctional. It just so happens that its doing everything right and everybody wants a piece. It's just a completely fallacious argument that you're making. So if they wanted to end early, why not make an announcement that the presale will be ending early, so if anyone wants to invest, they need to do so by the specified new deadline, a day or two later, maybe? There was no reason to abruptly end the sale with no advance warning, other than they wanted to make sure that no new investment would come in to dilute existing positions. Sorry if this seems off-topic in this thread, but as SyRenity points out, NXT keeps being promoted as an example distribution where everyone who wanted to was allowed to invest in the pre-sale, while complaining about Ethereum and Mastercoin, and this is clearly not the case based on evidence existing in the forums. It highlights the importance of clearly stating the terms of an offering and either sticking to those terms or giving plenty of advance warning if changes are to be made. |
|
|
|
|
I expect there will be depressed prices while people want to diversify from MSC to Ethereum. The NXT bubble from being newly listed on a major exchange also still has to play out (currently in a head and shoulders pattern). MSC seems to be cycling between .1 and .25 BTC/MSC in a very thin market, but could also be in a head and shoulders. 13,000 MSC is still only about 2% of the total MSC issue.
edit: Wow, that was fast, I was answering Patel's post, now it's gone
|
|
|
|
I received this response from David Elsinger at EFSA when I emailed him about this offering. Level Coin, would you please settle the ID issue by doing the Facebook post. It's not me! David Sent from my iPad > On Jan 22, 2014, at 1:59 AM, "mail" <****@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi David, > > Your name, LinkedIn profile, and Facebook profile have been mentioned in a very interesting project > posted on the Bitcointalk forum, Level Coin by David Elsinger. I am very interested in investing in > it, but wanted to first verify that the proposal is actually posted by you. > > The link to the project is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422309.0> > Thanks, Which email did you email? It is an email at EFSA which I found by determining the format used by EFSA via google search, creating an email address for David Elsinger based on the format, searching for that email on google to see if it exists, then emailing the query to that email. At this point, there would need to be two David Elsingers at EFSA (maybe a father and son) which is possible, which is why I am not making a scam accusation, but I am asking the OP to go through with the Facebook update to help clear things up. |
|
|
|
There was NO valuation prior to the Genesis Block.
Once the NXT's distributed, they were immediately traded on 1BTC / 1M rates, with a x47 multiplier for these who invested 1 BTC, that just kept pushing the price further within a very short amount of time, without any actual innovative features provided by Nxt. Here at least we have a predictable ROI for everyone. How can there be a multiplier if there was NO prior valuation? 0.000001 NXT/BTC was the first market rate. When NXT was first offered for sale at a price for .000001 BTC, the cost of goods sold was 0.000000021 BTC/NXT. This is a 4762% markup over the original purchase price. The fact that no price per NXT was announced during the pre-sale has no bearing on what the original cost was of what was being resold. |
|
|
|
When I asked when was the deadline to invest in NXT while it was still open, it was suddenly closed without any advance notice, and I was not allowed to invest in it. The deadline was not clear in the announcement, but most people, including myself, thought it was January 3, 2014. The genesis block was not created yet. It is very clear to me that they did not want any further dilution of existing investment, though no one will admit this. If there was some technical reason for ending the pre-sale early without advance notice, they could have just said something to the effect of "We are closing the sale now, so if you want to send in your Bitcoin you need to do so within the next X hours." They did allow another coin in which was sent while I was waiting for an answer. A week later, NXT was being sold at a 4762% markup over the presale price.
The presale of Ethereum, like that of Mastercoin, is very well defined with a clearly defined period of investment, and in the case of Ethereum, a clearly defined limit on total investment. NXT, on the other hand, was arbitrarily closed at the convenience of the founder with no advance warning, and not everyone who was interested was allowed to invest.
There you go again...  You know very well that the ONLY reason you were not allowed to participate early is because the Genesis Block had been generated. So... why do you keep going back as if it has not been explained to you? Also, why do you keep throwing that 4762% figure around and not the actual rate of NXT/BTC 0.000001? Genesis block was still under construction the next day according to posts in NXT thread. Indeterminate when it was started, but if the coin that went in while I was waiting for an answer was included, then mine could have been as well. Again, the math: presale price = 21 BTC/1,000,000,000 NXT = 0.000000021 price when first offered in NXT sale thread = 1,000,000 NXT/BTC = .000001 .000001/.000000021 = 47.62 = 4762% increase in price |
|
|
|
Great project, lets wait for the actual IPO prospect and see exactly what is offered. But defiantly needed in some form!
The IPO prospectus? Are you kidding me?? This is not a registered security and they have not filed the proper paperwork with SEC or any agency. The prospectus will not be worth the ink on paper its printed on. The prospectus they provide not be reviewed by the SEC, it will read like a marketing brochure. You can take you SEC paperwork, roll it up, tape a string to the end of it, and use it as a tampon. ROFLMAO!  ...I can't believe you guys haven't ignored that fool yet... He's too much fun to ignore. Besides, maybe he'll help reduce the dilution in Ethereum by scaring off a few people off. |
|
|
|
They are NXTers. And low tier to boot. They are followers; you can't expect them to question authority.
I for one thank you for wording my doubts.
30,000 BTC or 300 BTC, does not matter - there is no wrong question when you're asking other people's money.
but if you're dealing with 30,000 BTC, no stone should be left unturned within legal and contractual framework.
Actually, most Ether followers hate Nxt. Nxt had an IPO of 21 BTC (1 BTC was from the founder). The creator (BCNext) didn't allow anyone to invest more than 1BTC. Most people were skeptical, called it a scam, so they didn't invest and he launched Nxt. Then everyone screamed that the distribution was unfair and they didn't have enough time to invest. Personally, I don't like large public IPO's for crypto's, it's lame, if it's POW, it should be launched for free and mined. POS is tricky, because it has to be launched all at once, I don't think any POS will have a small IPO after Nxt. Regardless, I'll avoid Ether, it's going to be killed by greed. Vitalik hates NXT - nothing ever mentioned by him or his magazine about it. He pretends as if it non exists! Go figure...  When I asked when was the deadline to invest in NXT while it was still open, it was suddenly closed without any advance notice, and I was not allowed to invest in it. The deadline was not clear in the announcement, but most people, including myself, thought it was January 3, 2014. The genesis block was not created yet. It is very clear to me that they did not want any further dilution of existing investment, though no one will admit this. If there was some technical reason for ending the pre-sale early without advance notice, they could have just said something to the effect of "We are closing the sale now, so if you want to send in your Bitcoin you need to do so within the next X hours." They did allow another coin in which was sent while I was waiting for an answer. A week later, NXT was being sold at a 4762% markup over the presale price. The presale of Ethereum, like that of Mastercoin, is very well defined with a clearly defined period of investment, and in the case of Ethereum, a clearly defined limit on total investment. NXT, on the other hand, was arbitrarily closed at the convenience of the founder with no advance warning, and not everyone who was interested was allowed to invest. |
|
|
|
Great project, lets wait for the actual IPO prospect and see exactly what is offered. But defiantly needed in some form!
The IPO prospectus? Are you kidding me?? This is not a registered security and they have not filed the proper paperwork with SEC or any agency. The prospectus will not be worth the ink on paper its printed on. The prospectus they provide not be reviewed by the SEC, it will read like a marketing brochure. You can take you SEC paperwork, roll it up, tape a string to the end of it, and use it as a tampon. |
|
|
|
I received this response from David Elsinger at EFSA when I emailed him about this offering. Level Coin, would you please settle the ID issue by doing the Facebook post. It's not me! David Sent from my iPad > On Jan 22, 2014, at 1:59 AM, "mail" <****@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi David, > > Your name, LinkedIn profile, and Facebook profile have been mentioned in a very interesting project > posted on the Bitcointalk forum, Level Coin by David Elsinger. I am very interested in investing in > it, but wanted to first verify that the proposal is actually posted by you. > > The link to the project is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422309.0> > Thanks, |
|
|
|
Posts about Ethereum will be flagged as off topic. This thread is to discuss public sanitation in restrooms and feces masking as flatulence.
Thank you was waiting for someone to bring back some sanity into this, sidetracking the subject into Proof of Work while we were clearly speaking of Proof Of Steak and the aftermath. Thanks Leo. So what does PoS stand for? |
|
|
|
So you are saying your company refuses to comply with rules and regulations to save money for development?
It's not my company. I am only a potential investor. |
|
|
|
More bullshit from you. Now you are trying to fear monger people into thinking that all government is bad and we should never obey the law because...who the fuk knows why? Im not a big fan of government, but am I a fan of full disclosure and filing proper paperwork and bonds to insure that people don't get ripped off? Hell yes. Anyone who keeps repeating that government is bad bad bad because they dont want to file the correct paperwork and disclosures is obviously hiding something. You are a cockroach, I read some of your previous posts and you obviously have an interest in ethereum being successful so you are willing to tell people that they are government lovers if they want transparency. Frack you.
It costs $800,000 in legal costs and filing fees to do an IPO. This money is much better used to fund development than to feed parasites. Your content, vocabulary, and grammar all reveal an incredible lack of class. |
|
|
|
Silly meaningless passive inspirational quotes. Full of sound and fury with absolutely no meaning. Worthless in every way because you have a vested small time interest in making a profit. If you lose a btc who cares right but 36 million as a whole community? If you had that kind of money you would never invest 36 million into the coin unless there was proper due diligence, bond and the assurance that all regulatory laws were followed. And yet out of your selfish greed to make a quick short buck you are advocating the entire bitcoin community to invest 36 total million dollars without oversight. cockroach.
If you want the government to decide everything for you and protect every decision you make, go live in a mental asylum. Take some responsibility and do your own research. If you don't like the project, have the respect for others and dignity to leave and stop dirtying everything with disinformation. Every post you make is identical. We've told you a million times now that the $36m figure is a way off, but you refuse to listen. It's also been said numerous times that a prospectus will be released. This isn't equity, but you ignore that too. +1 Actually, for me personally, the less people invest, the better. I want to see as little dilution of my investment as possible. The 36 million is a high market cap, and meant to allow as many people to participate as possible up to a point beyond which further investment would dilute investment without the organization being able to use it to bring the product to market and add more features any faster, reducing the rate of ROI. My concern is that people like gutshot5820, who feel they are qualified to make decisions for the rest of us with their crap 20th century laws, which stifle innovation, and lock out small time investors from participating in seed rounds, while protecting established crony interests, will scare off the project from offering this opportunity to the public. Believe me, they don't have to - they already have plenty of qualified investment which would be SEC compliant. This almost happened with eMunie. Again gutshot5820, please leave - not just this thread, but this forum. |
|
|
|
I don't know how long has you been involved with bitcoin but the sooner you understand that bitcoin and decentralized network is not compatible with current law framework the better you understand why things are the way they are. Take the red pill and be free or go back to your current comfortable existence of investing in sp500 there is no issue with the fund raise. People are free to spend their money as they choose
also who said it occurs in us jurisdiction.
Not true, there are laws regarding transparency and compliance when people are trying to raise millions of dollars from strangers...in order to prevent fraud. There will be similar laws in most countries and Canada if Im not mistaken is much tougher than US when it comes to crowdfundraising. And why, who cares what jurisdiction they are in, if they are asking for 36 million from total strangers before they even open for business they should spend a few hundred thousand to provide assurances that they are in legal rights in each country they do business with and file all the necessary regulatory documents. If they are not hiding anything or worried why would they care what jurisdiction they are in? +1 And I have no vested interest in Ethereum beyond wanting to participate in the pre-sale. gutshot5820 repeatedly invokes US regulations and seeks to impose them on a global marketplace. He does not comprehend the whole purpose of crypto assets and so does not belong in this community. He should go back to his safe little 'empire in decline' and enjoy his illusion of safety and security while it still lasts. "Those who would sacrifice their liberty for security deserve neither." |
|
|
|
You two keep hamming it away with each other, Personally I think both of you are a complete joke. Anybody who hassles people for questioning the legitimacy of requesting 36 million online from complete strangers is either getting paid as a shill by the company or has no sense of reality.
You have to be fuckin absolutey living in a bubble for hassling people that are questioning the legality of a totally strange entity asking strangers on the internet based off a youtube ad to invest up to 36 million. Why dont you sell your home and car and give them all of your own money before asking the bitcoin community to give them 36 million upfront with no risk. LMAO you are classic, you must think everyone on here is dumb that questions their motives. I think its the exact opposite.
Please leave. There is no value in your existence. |
|
|
|
|
please revise 5000 NXT to 10,000 NXT for revised total 500,000 NEX
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
