By the way, even though I gave my opinion of what would happen if bitcoin were banned (see above),I don't think America will ever ban bitcoin. There are too many businesses that have been created because of bitcoin to ban it. Plus, the US government auctioned off the silk road bitcoins. I don't think they can auction something to the public and then ban it.
They banned PokerStars and other things like that, why they can't ban bitcoin too? If people are spending USD for bitcoin, for sure they will have a reason to ban. Let's see who will be the next president. And if bitcoin was banned in a lot of countries, bitcoin will be dead. I just don't see how the government would auction bitcoins to the public and then ban it. I know the government does a lot of things that don't make sense, but that would be ironic and would cause a backlash of media attention. Governments conflict with and change laws all the time,its the reason people will often say the left arm does not know what the right arm is doing. Its easier to write a new law into the book and not look back to correct any oversights like people sitting in jail on pot charges. May seem like a strong point till you stand back and take in a large segment of history than the current decade. Not being a ass just trying to show that the farther back you reach into history the more you see the repetitive nature of government conflicting with its self and the people. |
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Basically I see a lot of talk about bitcoin being above governing powers but people that state this usually have not been in a country that has stripped basic rights and made people do things they never would have imagined to their own loved ones.
Its easy to state these things when times are good or you trust the governing powers. Try to put your selves in the shoes of those that face far greater punishment and you may see that bitcoin is more fleeting than you are lead to believe.
When people are referring to "governmental powers" they are usually not referring to an oppressive regime that is torturing and killing their own citizens. In that case, anyone "caught" using Bitcoin/bitcoin would be effectively "eliminated" as the way to "regulate" its use. But in normal countries, that is considered illegal and immoral, so your statement does not apply. Currently, government attempts to "regulate by law" can not be incorporated into the Bitcoin network. Your "bitcoin is fleeting" comment is pretty naive, since in your scenario Bitcoin/bitcoin use would be the least of our worries. Western civilization, human rights, justice, and freedom would be over. Its all different lines of the heavy hand by government. Just because "normal" government uses a slow push,as opposed to the heavy hand does not change the statement. What seems like a plan for the better is often a strip down of more human rights in the long term and does nothing to close the gap on the issue they where doing it for. Just because people do not talk about the violent nature of governing bodies in some countries does not dismiss the fact that government does not have the interests of the people at hand when they crack down on things like bitcoin. "Normal government is also not as normal as you would like to believe and we are a global forum that draws from all parts of the world. I do not see my statement about bitcoin being off either,if we enter a turbulent time it is what it is. You can not cast the statement aside because it is more black and white than you prefer. Think you also make a lot of the same points you just take issue with how I say it. Your original response was in the context of governments that "[make] people do things they never would have imagined to their own loved ones." and "Try to put your selves in the shoes of those that face far greater punishment.". Those statements refers to oppressive regimens since it imply bodily harm that is illegal in most Western Countries, with rights that protect individuals as well as their families. Interestingly, in most western countries today, the death penalty is outlawed, even for people where there is video of their murder of another. So in most western countries today, even that is considered "wrong". In addition, there are many mechanisms that exist in order to "correct" a failure of government that may become more tyrannical or begin outright violating the laws. For you statement to be true, those nations would need to be in martial law situations or the outright disbanding of the documents which grant the rights to those citizens. Normal governments are governments that are run by their own citizens, as opposed to the military, religious, dictators, or other "self appointed leaders or council members". These are the types of governments you were originally referring to, since in those countries it is possible that illegal bitcoin use could lead to "greater punishments]", then just fining or jail time. Are you arguing that if Western Counties ban or make bitcoin illegal, they will suspend all known laws and start having parents beating their children feet with wooden poles and pulling the teeth out of their brother-in-laws heads, or leaving people in isolation of years in secret prisons, because they transferred a bitcoin to another person. I don't think so. Your argument refers to non-normal governments. Lets not fixate on the example I give,since you seem to be having a real hard time with it and its taking you down a discussion I am not attempting to make. The initial point was directed at the responses you see in this forum where people in Western Countries believe the world runs the same way everywhere. I pointed out that we are not all fortunate to be born in such areas of the world and that government often does clamp down on people in a manner using violence. The issue is government control and not that bitcoin users are going to be paraded through the streets,its possible but not as likely as a clamp down in the form of jail sentences or fines. When we talk about bitcoin we should be thinking in a global term,reason I am saying people need to understand the every day plight of some people in these less privledged countries when they say government can not do this and that. In some of these countries that is exactly what has happened,so its narrow focus to look at this in a Western world only scope. Besides the example I really do not know what we arguing about. |
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Basically I see a lot of talk about bitcoin being above governing powers but people that state this usually have not been in a country that has stripped basic rights and made people do things they never would have imagined to their own loved ones.
Its easy to state these things when times are good or you trust the governing powers. Try to put your selves in the shoes of those that face far greater punishment and you may see that bitcoin is more fleeting than you are lead to believe.
When people are referring to "governmental powers" they are usually not referring to an oppressive regime that is torturing and killing their own citizens. In that case, anyone "caught" using Bitcoin/bitcoin would be effectively "eliminated" as the way to "regulate" its use. But in normal countries, that is considered illegal and immoral, so your statement does not apply. Currently, government attempts to "regulate by law" can not be incorporated into the Bitcoin network. Your "bitcoin is fleeting" comment is pretty naive, since in your scenario Bitcoin/bitcoin use would be the least of our worries. Western civilization, human rights, justice, and freedom would be over. Its all different lines of the heavy hand by government. Just because "normal" government uses a slow push,as opposed to the heavy hand does not change the statement. What seems like a plan for the better is often a strip down of more human rights in the long term and does nothing to close the gap on the issue they where doing it for. Just because people do not talk about the violent nature of governing bodies in some countries does not dismiss the fact that government does not have the interests of the people at hand when they crack down on things like bitcoin. "Normal government is also not as normal as you would like to believe and we are a global forum that draws from all parts of the world. I do not see my statement about bitcoin being off either,if we enter a turbulent time it is what it is. You can not cast the statement aside because it is more black and white than you prefer. Think you also make a lot of the same points you just take issue with how I say it. |
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And when the currencies of countries all around the world becomes devalued, people will have to step up to digital currencies.
How are they going to purchase crypto if the economy has tanked and every one is out of work? People do not suddenly go and invest when they are trying to make it pay day to pay day,it does not work that way. Hell people in North America are more than not barely making it pay cheque to pay cheque. Reality is that people do not wake up and start seeing the best way to go about things would be all of us adopting this bitcoin thing. Humans are more lemming/sheep than actual trendsetters. |
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Was a thread a well back about why they where not taking on bitcoin with the unstable government like not even a couple months ago. So a turn around in a matter of short time is very unlikely and it would take time to advance bitcoin in this manner.
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Bitcoin is as strong as humans that support it and history shows that humans are a fickle bunch.
Just look at how moral change comes around and compare what was the standards a hundred years ago to today for a example.
The technology is currently strong but I presume we are talking about something greater when we reflect on the strength and look to its weaknesses.
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Banning bitcoin achieves a slow strangle on the situation. You stop those people that where on the fence in the said Country from jumping on board. You also detract a few people active in the community because some of us have lives that can be easily tarnished or destroyed with the wrong light.
The tools used alone always look less than but when you use them together with other aspects you do achieve the goal they set forth.
Basically I see a lot of talk about bitcoin being above governing powers but people that state this usually have not been in a country that has stripped basic rights and made people do things they never would have imagined to their own loved ones.
Its easy to state these things when times are good or you trust the governing powers. Try to put your selves in the shoes of those that face far greater punishment and you may see that bitcoin is more fleeting than you are lead to believe.
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If you are not watching what you click you need to get more paranoid about how you conduct business on the net.
Its far to easy for sites to pretend to be something they are not to establish a connection to you and rope you in.
Quite often I notice when I google that some new site is at the head of the search after months/years of one site being the only option. It happens enough to watch every google search you make for a familiar site you have not bookmarked.
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The policies that are made today,do not always stand up years from now under a new government.
People seem to forget that public opinions can sway and suddenly bitcoin is the root of all evil,grab a pitchfork and lets go get some bitcoiners! This thought crosses my mind everytime I make a purchase with my debit/credit or even grabbing a book at the library. 1984 scared the crap out of me and its fingerprints are still on me today when I think about big brother.
So stating that I think people putting themselves out there are truly amazing people and I admire their potential sacrifice.
Establishing a local exchange would not be in the cards due to my more laid back vibe as well,rather not deal with the stress of it all.
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I am not waiting for one hundred but I am waiting on the next big thing! Might be a bit different than others in that sense but I like to keep my tentacles open to getting into the next boom on the ground level. Sort of like I missed the chance with bitcoin,it would be a really cool moment to be in on the ground floor as things are being worked out and tinkered.
Bitcoin can go up or down and I still would be using it in the same manner that I do today.
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With Christmas coming there will be the rush to get some extra funds in hand and it usually comes from bitcoin as college kids head home and high school kids look to have some fun. People also tend to be out of work for a period around this time and in need of money to get through or boost the holiday spirit.
I would not expect a great bump in bitcoin around this time.
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Interesting choices for Countries to extend the services to,Spain has a rocky economy and Ireland seems to be going through another who am I stage where they debate joining together and leaving the U.K! Little worrying at how fast they seem to be spreading,nowing that they like to have customers go through some extra hoops in identification.
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I have found that people will look to see what you are doing at the atm but act like they know and tend to just go on doing what they where doing.
Might be the vibe of my city as people are very snobby and we are well known to be a cold population when it comes to new people.
The majority of ours are in coffee houses now or head shops (Potshops) and it seems like they are growing in numbers. So it must be helping adoption rates by people just observing alone.
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Chicken or the egg debate really.
If you get mass adoption you are also going to see a jump in price,least that is how I see the future based of current history.
Lets say they are separate...If the price jumps and people are priced out,we would eventually face a decline in the longer term.
If we build a strong base with the mass adoption we could be more profitable and efficient longer term as opposed to sky roof increase pushing out even some of the people here.
Mass adoption and price jump aren't necessarly correlated. A group of 10 to 100 whales can take the price to 10k per coin by tomorrow, in this case we don't need massive adoption, we only need a small group of people with deep pockets ready to move their wealth into BTC. I think if you run it in the set way I mentioned it does correlate but I agree it does not work the other way around,being price increase bringing mass adoption. That is a bit more murky and unknown. So if a group of whales bring a large amount of currency into bitcoin to facilitate a rise in awareness in would draw attention by the media. But it would be short lived like when they drag the person wanting to sell their car for bitcoin,it dies off after that till a pedo gets busted with it. |
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The benefit is freedom and competition. If you can't cut it in the competition, vote for government, because when government takes control, prices go up, and government takes its cut.  The freedom to drive each other into the ground! Government label seems a stretch,was more a pro union stance.  Some times I have a problem with changes that can potentially do more harm without some kind of fail safe. Look at how certain groups based on religion,race or location take over a set field of work. It blocks honest and open competition that a supposed free market brings. The idea of a free market sometimes feels like another term for NWO as I know Soros would be down with this concept. Make people believe they have control when they actually have less. |
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Feels a little like a race to the bottom as the drivers undercut each other to get the customer.
This seems to be a driving issue when it comes to new technology,as it always is great for the customer but not always great for the worker or business owner.
Always think back to when debit started to become a big thing and some of the smaller mom and pops would want you to spend at least $5 to recoup the cost of having to use the machine. So the potential for a driver that needs work to under slash the competition is a serious problem.
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Number 5 really worries me and I could see businesses pushing this down the masses throat in order to comply.
Just gauging off responses to some topics,its pretty clear people are willing to assimilate bitcoin for a higher price.
If I have to connect my identity to bitcoin it really serves no purpose for me as there is a reason I enjoy the privacy it offers.
Why can't these people find a different lane to pursue this idea with,instead of hijacking a established coin!
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Chicken or the egg debate really.
If you get mass adoption you are also going to see a jump in price,least that is how I see the future based of current history.
Lets say they are separate...If the price jumps and people are priced out,we would eventually face a decline in the longer term.
If we build a strong base with the mass adoption we could be more profitable and efficient longer term as opposed to sky roof increase pushing out even some of the people here.
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You know it seems like a potential for all kinds of lawsuit issues as the people may not know they are breaking a law at the time.
What I find hilarious is how many people sign up for these team based scavenger hunts and fly around town in yellow,blue and red bibs.
It seems to be a team building exercise for companies and a way to bond fellow workers but I think bitcoin could come into play.
Hiding bitcoin QR codes through out town and the winners would obviously have the most codes. Only issues would be weather damage and theft,you figure those out and you could have games that could reset over and over with multiple stations. Like a live version of capture the flag.
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I learned quite early on in life that friendships die or go sideways when you lend friends money. When it comes to people that are more work based it was also a bad play due to the potential of that person blowing up and dragging you down with them as they look to wash out their debts.
When it comes to bitcoin,I would stick to the line that we are in to early a stage to have a broad enough section of the populatoin. Meaning that you could pigeonhole a large segment into a age range and in doing so you notice that its a time in life where money is often tight. Once bitcoin becomes adopted by more people I would maybe revisit the concept of lending to strangers.
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