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1921  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 07:58:54 PM


AM have a limited number of devices for sale. Previously they could charge 50 BTC per device. Soon they will only be able to charge 2 BTC per device. In order for profits to remain the same, AM would have to sell 25x more devices at the lower price. It can't do that though because those extra devices are needed for its mining operation. The obvious conclusion (and it is blatantly obvious if you just open your eyes and look at the situation objectively) is that income from selling hardware decreases.


Same mistake here ,again and over again.   You assumption is based on AM will selling same Blade all the time, and based on this assumption you assume the share price of AM will decrease.

NO! It makes no difference what hardware AM have for sale in the future. If it offers poor value compared to the competition, people will buy from the competition. It it does offer equal or better value than the competition, then income from hardware sales MUST decrease due to AM having a limited quantity for sale.

Let's me explain clear to you , KNC will probably ship its product by September  ,before that time did you agree that AM still has no comparative competitor in the market?  other things ,AM is focus on mining ,the majority of dividend is coming from mining. Since last week, the dividend come from hardware selling is already drooped. why its share price goes up? the reason is AM still the best assets produce positive value, so investors has no other opportunity, as long as there are no other assets could produce a annul yield above 20% without loss its principle.

Until people can buy miners off the shelf (order gets shipped within a couple of days of being placed), AM will have no competition. Why has the share price gone up? Clearly because people are stupid.

We should be clearly understand AM is not rely on Hardware sales as well as mining.
The correct assumption should be if AM loss its capability to remains its share in mining , then I agreed its price will be dump so quickly,

AM will not be able to to maintain it's stated share of the hash rate either. It can do so now only because of the lack of competition. The following companies already have or are due to have ASICs on the market.

ASICMINER
Avalon
BFL
KnC
BitFury
Bitgarden
AMC

All of those companies could easily match each others hash rate once they have a working ASIC and we're bound to see a few more in the future. I believe we'll see AM settle at around 10-15% of the network share.


1922  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 07:39:21 PM






I really do not like this comparison , because it ignored the basic truth which use AM today's product to compare with some 6 months later products.

I had post before, AM is company manufacture in China, you should understand that the cost of producing electronic products is much much lower than anywhere else in the world also that the possibility to speed put those products into mass production.
As FriedCat announced it will delivery better products in Oct this year and it will be much better than anything else.
You are trying to believe a new entry with sample products has more capability than current leader?
Anyone has the knowledge in integrated circuit manufacturing will know that the difference between 110NM standards and 28NM standards isn't technology difference, it different in the production equipment which involved to produce it.
You are trying to see that Chinese integrated circuit manufacturing are not capable to produce chips at 28NM standard?
I think this totally nonsense, that IPOD /IPHONE are manufactured in the same province where AM operated.

Another person, not paying attention. I never said anything like what you're claiming. I pointed out that by the end of the year there will be a lot more competition and showed how that will compare to AMs current hardware. The point of that was to show that AM will no longer be able to sell 2 Mh/s for 1 USD once that competition is available because the competition will be offering 50 Mh/s for the same price. Nobody in their right mind would buy AM hardware under such circumstances.





[/quote]

Of course, I know what you mean , you trying to say that AM would not change its price and its products standards?
The old blade is no more selling on the market, the only thing will make you assumption useful , is waiting util the new blade come out.
since before new blade come out , we do not know what will the spec be. It may be better than KNC ? if it does better than KNC , then the share price of AM will go up again at that time.
You can't post assumption like this if you did not know what exactly spec about the new blade.
It will caused missing lead investors, and seems not fair to AM.
[/quote]

No, that's the opposite of what I'm saying! AM will HAVE to change its pricing and products to be competitive otherwise it wouldn't sell any hardware at all.

It doesn't matter whether the new hardware is better than KnC or anyone else for that matter. All that matters is that AM will no longer be able to sell 2 Mh/s for 1 USD. AM will have to sell its devices at a price which is competitive. If KnC is readily available that's 50 Mh/s for 1 USD. If BFL is readily available but KnC is not, then that'll be about 18 Mh/s per USD. Due to competition being available and AM having a limited supply of devices, profit from selling hardware can only go down.
1923  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 07:12:23 PM
I agree with this part:

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

However, I believe most investors have considered it too (particularly those with more than "half a brain"), and that it is priced into the share price at the moment. There's no surprise that there will be competition. But AM has enormous competitive advantages - they won't be able to sell at 50 BTC anymore, but their process (130 nm) is most likely cheaper than all competitors, giving them better profit margins on their products.

So the current monopoly-situation will eventually end, but AM has everything it takes to compete head-on with the competitors (and win) when they eventually arrive.

More compentition doesnt necesary lead to reduced hardware profits for ASICminer..

More competition does mean reduced hardware profits for AM. You clearly haven't thought this through.

You asume that there wont be enough demand to buy every competitive product that comes out
its like you say if AM sold 1000 blades then the market is 1000 minners a pop i think the demand was much larger than what AM could cover and could absorve more mners than were actualy sold...

No, I'm not assuming that at all. I'm assuming that they sell all the hardware they have for sale (which is limited in number), but that they simply can't sell it at 2 Mh/s per USD because the competition is offering 50 Mh/s per USD. So, instead of selling a Blade for 50 BTC, they will sell for 2 BTC instead. That is what will cause the decrease in hardware sales.

A compettive market with lower prices and easier revenuew of buying Miners would drive the sales way up for AM too...

It would if AM actually sold miners, but they don't. The only product AM currently sell is the USB miner which is just an expensive gimmick. They occasionally sell off their second hand hardware which they no longer want. The hardware they have for sale is very limited in quantity. They can't just sell all the hardware they have or they would have nothing left to mine with. AM need the hardware themselves.

plus you asume that the cost of production of the second batch is the same as the first i would argue that the first batch had to cover a lot or development costs that the second one will not have thus giving a larger profit margin...

No reduction in development costs is going to make up for the 25x decrease in profit from selling hardware.

In all that i am not sure that we have reached peak profits from hardware sales yet even if there is lots of competition in the future...

Then you clearly don't understand the situation. Let me try to make it clearer for you, with a simple example.

AM have a limited number of devices for sale. Previously they could charge 50 BTC per device. Soon they will only be able to charge 2 BTC per device. In order for profits to remain the same, AM would have to sell 25x more devices at the lower price. It can't do that though because those extra devices are needed for its mining operation. The obvious conclusion (and it is blatantly obvious if you just open your eyes and look at the situation objectively) is that income from selling hardware decreases.
1924  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 06:44:23 PM
It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.

Where can I get a KNC Jupiter? I want to start mining with it tomorrow. I have the cash right now.

Perhaps you should have paid attention to the part where I said:

Quote
The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition.

No, I couldn't be arsed to pay attention to what you said when you compared old ASICMINER hardware (early 2013) with vaporware, scheduled to be launched at end of year. Apples and ... not even oranges.

ASICMINER priced their stuff to sell. And it has. That is perfectly normal business. Its not outrageous prices because if it was, nobody would have bought the things. Think before you type.

Outrageous is announcing vaporware many months in advance and watching gullible people flock to pre-order it because the specs are way ahead of today's standards. Of course stuff delivered in 6 months time will be much much better. That goes without saying. That's if they deliver.

At least ASICMINER have a history of delivering stuff, and maintaining a high % of the total network hashing power.

Competition is to be expected because its a profitable business. Whether the competition can live with the team first to market remains to be seen.

No need to cry and waffle on about irrelevancies because I stated a fact. AM hardware has been vastly overpriced due to not having any competition. With competition available it won't be able to charge such outrageous prices. And seriously, if you think 2 BTC for a USB miner is not insane, then you are insane.

Who cares if AM are bringing out 2nd generation miners. If they want to sell such hardware, it'll also have to be priced competitively, so closer to 50 Mh/s per USD than 2 Mh/s per USD. For the mining operation, all those new chips will do is decrease the power consumption, which should cause a very slight increase in dividends due to lower power costs. It won't be anywhere near enough to offset the decrease in income from hardware sales, nor the decrease in income due to a decrease in the share of the network hash rate.

Over the next few months, you'll see a decline in AM dividends and anyone claiming otherwise is talking out their arse in order to try and inflate the share price even further.
The price of AM also determine by its supply, those limited supply in market ,also make it valuable than anything else.


That's what I'm saying! AM has had a monopoly so far, so could charge outrageous prices. With the incoming competition, AM's prices will have to be competitive or people will simply go with the competition. With AM having limited hardware for sale, the only possible result is a decrease in income from hardware sales.
1925  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 06:41:21 PM

It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.



I really do not like this comparison , because it ignored the basic truth which use AM today's product to compare with some 6 months later products.

I had post before, AM is company manufacture in China, you should understand that the cost of producing electronic products is much much lower than anywhere else in the world also that the possibility to speed put those products into mass production.
As FriedCat announced it will delivery better products in Oct this year and it will be much better than anything else.
You are trying to believe a new entry with sample products has more capability than current leader?
Anyone has the knowledge in integrated circuit manufacturing will know that the difference between 110NM standards and 28NM standards isn't technology difference, it different in the production equipment which involved to produce it.
You are trying to see that Chinese integrated circuit manufacturing are not capable to produce chips at 28NM standard?
I think this totally nonsense, that IPOD /IPHONE are manufactured in the same province where AM operated.

Another person, not paying attention. I never said anything like what you're claiming. I pointed out that by the end of the year there will be a lot more competition and showed how that will compare to AMs current hardware. The point of that was to show that AM will no longer be able to sell 2 Mh/s for 1 USD once that competition is available because the competition will be offering 50 Mh/s for the same price. Nobody in their right mind would buy AM hardware under such circumstances.




1926  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 06:34:06 PM
I agree with this part:

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

However, I believe most investors have considered it too (particularly those with more than "half a brain"), and that it is priced into the share price at the moment. There's no surprise that there will be competition. But AM has enormous competitive advantages - they won't be able to sell at 50 BTC anymore, but their process (130 nm) is most likely cheaper than all competitors, giving them better profit margins on their products.

So the current monopoly-situation will eventually end, but AM has everything it takes to compete head-on with the competitors (and win) when they eventually arrive.

I'm not saying that it won't be able to compete once the competition turns up. I'm saying that it simply won't be able to make as much money as it does now.
1927  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 06:30:03 PM
You're missing the part where I think they will have better hardware, and while it will have to be priced better, it will also be still competitive. The selling of older hardware is just icing on the cake.

ASICMINER has a history of shipping and no false promises.

Also, I renew my scepticism of KNC having access to 28nm fabs.

I'm not missing that part at all. So what if they have new hardware? Please explain what effect you think such new hardware will have. The only effect I see it having is to reduce the power consumption, causing a slight increase in dividends due to less income being spent on power. That slight increase will not be enough to offset the decrease from hardware sales or network share.
1928  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 06:16:38 PM
It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.

Where can I get a KNC Jupiter? I want to start mining with it tomorrow. I have the cash right now.

Perhaps you should have paid attention to the part where I said:

Quote
The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition.

No, I couldn't be arsed to pay attention to what you said when you compared old ASICMINER hardware (early 2013) with vaporware, scheduled to be launched at end of year. Apples and ... not even oranges.

ASICMINER priced their stuff to sell. And it has. That is perfectly normal business. Its not outrageous prices because if it was, nobody would have bought the things. Think before you type.

Outrageous is announcing vaporware many months in advance and watching gullible people flock to pre-order it because the specs are way ahead of today's standards. Of course stuff delivered in 6 months time will be much much better. That goes without saying. That's if they deliver.

At least ASICMINER have a history of delivering stuff, and maintaining a high % of the total network hashing power.

Competition is to be expected because its a profitable business. Whether the competition can live with the team first to market remains to be seen.

No need to cry and waffle on about irrelevancies because I stated a fact. AM hardware has been vastly overpriced due to not having any competition. With competition available it won't be able to charge such outrageous prices. And seriously, if you think 2 BTC for a USB miner is not insane, then you are insane.

Who cares if AM are bringing out 2nd generation miners. If they want to sell such hardware, it'll also have to be priced competitively, so closer to 50 Mh/s per USD than 2 Mh/s per USD. For the mining operation, all those new chips will do is decrease the power consumption, which should cause a very slight increase in dividends due to lower power costs. It won't be anywhere near enough to offset the decrease in income from hardware sales, nor the decrease in income due to a decrease in the share of the network hash rate.

Over the next few months, you'll see a decline in AM dividends and anyone claiming otherwise is talking out their arse in order to try and inflate the share price even further.
1929  Economy / Securities / Re: [ANN]BTCT:BFMINES - PMB - Escrow until operation start - Bonus divs first months on: June 22, 2013, 05:34:25 PM
Why are you wasting your time and money trying to push this through at 0.004 BTC per share?  No investor will make a profit at that price at the current difficulty, never mind future difficulties. So, why would someone buy shares in your stock when they can already get better value right now from DMS?

Do you traders not understand anything about mining? By setting the value for these bonds at idiotic prices, all you are doing is trying to rip off your investors. You can compare your stock to TAT.VM and claim that you offer a competitive value, but that's just ignoring the fact that TAT.VM was insanely overpriced to begin with.

I challenge you right now to show how an investor could make a profit from your stock at 0.004 BTC per share.

Hi,

Thanks for your comment and challenge. I believe I have responded to the question on profitability already and why I'm hesitant to provide scenarios for profitability. However, I can tell you that I've run the numbers based on the same analysis model I did with 100TH (http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/) and used that to design the asset to be fair to investors, with a reasonable chance of reasonable profit.

Obviously, if investors believe in the perpetual proportional growth theory, they should not invest in anything mining-related; there is no way for any mining investment to ever make a profit, including assets like ASICMiner (they won't have enough BTC income to pay off new investments in roughly 2 years, unless BTC/USD price reaches $1000).

.b

If we assume a 10% difficulty increase per round, then the next 10 rounds will take just 12.7 days each, so say 13 days of dividends for each round. So, over those 130 days, a total of 0.00207722 BTC would be mined. In fact, with a constant 10% difficulty increase each round, over the next 57 successive rounds (next 2 years), only 0.00336580 BTC would be mined.

I don't think that's a good way to predict difficulty myself, but it highlights the point I'm making. It's going to take a very long time, if ever, to make 0.004 BTC from a 1 Mh/s miner which starts mining at the beginning of the next difficulty round, never mind in a couple of months time. Sure, you can resell the share, but how much will they be going for 4 months later? How much will they be going for 2 years later?

A reasonable price right now would be around 0.002 as that should actually allow investors to make a profit. If you insist on that 0.004 BTC share price, then all you are going to do is waste 5 BTC on the listing fee.
1930  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 04:53:37 PM
AM will probably have better hardware to sell than what they have now by then. They will also be able to sell their old, less-efficients ASICs (sure it will be for less) if they replace them in their datacenter.

They have the experience and people know they ship. So I doubt they'll have trouble selling new hardware.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying that ASICMINER will not sell any more hardware, I'm saying that they wont be able to sell it for stupid money due to competition having ASICs available at a reasonable price. How much will someone pay for an "old" 10 Gh/s Blade when they could buy a KnC off the shelf?

This will quite obviously reduce the income from hardware sales. To claim otherwise is pure stupidity.

The days of ASICMINER's monopoly are coming to an end and with it, we'll see an end to such outrageous prices for mining equipment and stocks.
1931  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 04:31:31 PM
It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.

Where can I get a KNC Jupiter? I want to start mining with it tomorrow. I have the cash right now.

Perhaps you should have paid attention to the part where I said:

Quote
The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition.
1932  Economy / Securities / Re: [ANN]BTCT:BFMINES - PMB - Escrow until operation start - Bonus divs first months on: June 22, 2013, 04:18:37 PM
Why are you wasting your time and money trying to push this through at 0.004 BTC per share?  No investor will make a profit at that price at the current difficulty, never mind future difficulties. So, why would someone buy shares in your stock when they can already get better value right now from DMS?

Do you traders not understand anything about mining? By setting the value for these bonds at idiotic prices, all you are doing is trying to rip off your investors. You can compare your stock to TAT.VM and claim that you offer a competitive value, but that's just ignoring the fact that TAT.VM was insanely overpriced to begin with.

I challenge you right now to show how an investor could make a profit from your stock at 0.004 BTC per share.
1933  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: June 22, 2013, 03:41:34 PM
It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.
1934  Economy / Securities / Re: Mining Bonds, Stocks For People Who Can't Do Basic Maths. on: June 22, 2013, 03:20:37 PM
I owned this stock for a week, then sold for a little more than what I payed for it. I have been kicking myself for selling so early....until now. I didnt even notice this price drop. The dividends are not worth it, and you will lose more than what your divs will pay in the long term.

It's not about a specific stock, it applies to all mining bonds. People are grossly overestimating the value of them or simply not understanding what they're paying for.
1935  Economy / Securities / Mining Bonds, Stocks For People Who Can't Do Basic Maths. on: June 22, 2013, 12:54:34 PM
It's quite clear that the majority of people buying mining bonds, haven't got a clue what they are actually buying, otherwise they wouldn't be paying such ridiculous sums.

Look at TAT.VIRTUALMINE going for 0.00518 BTC. It's currently paying 0.00002600 BTC per day per share. At that rate, it would take 200 days to mine 0.00518 at a constant difficulty.

If we assume a 10% difficulty increase per round, then the daily dividends for the next 10 successive rounds look like the following:

Round 1 = 0.00002364 BTC
Round 2 = 0.00002149 BTC
Round 3 = 0.00001954 BTC
Round 4 = 0.00001776 BTC
Round 5 = 0.00001615 BTC
Round 6 = 0.00001468 BTC
Round 7 = 0.00001334 BTC
Round 8 = 0.00001213 BTC
Round 9 = 0.00001103 BTC
Round 10 = 0.00001003 BTC

Those 10 rounds will take just 12.7 days each, so say 13 days of dividends at that rate for each round. So, over those 130 days, a total of 0.00207722 BTC would be mined. In fact, with a constant 10% difficulty increase each round, over the next 57 successive rounds (next 2 years), only 0.00336580 BTC would be mined.

If you're looking into mining bonds, you should be looking at the short term profits over each difficulty round.

TAT.VM was still around 0.007 BTC per share at the beginning of this difficulty round. Assuming a full 14 days per round (no difficulty increase), then the maximum amount mined per share for the current round would be 0.00036406 BTC. If we assume TAT.VM would sell at 0.005 BTC per share at the end of this difficulty round, then that would be a net loss of -0.007 + 0.005 + 0.00036406 = -0.00163594 BTC. In order to make a profit, TAT.VM shares would have to sell for more than 0.00663594 BTC (ignoring trading fees) at the end of the round.


As you can clearly see, the current prices for these mining bond are insanely overpriced. Personally, I wouldn't pay more than 0.002 BTC per Mh/s.
1936  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary on: June 21, 2013, 03:45:50 AM
What are the options/alternatives for the k16 heatsinks?
There are many options covered in this thread, I suggest you look at some rather than having people repeat them over and over.

Type the word heatsink into the search and you should get 6 pages of hits.

People shouldn't need to search through multiple pages of mostly irrelevant information to find 1 comment which makes a passing mention of the info you're looking for.

Any kit that is currently ready should be linked to in the initial post.

There are no kits in this thread, it's a design discussion thread. Go look at one of the board buy threads, there are many, like Burnin's or Terrahash threads.


By kit, I meant parts that are to be used in conjuction with BKKs boards. Parts such as heatsinks, cases, etc, not an actual bundle of parts that you buy and put together yourself.
1937  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary on: June 21, 2013, 03:41:32 AM
You can also get SATA power to 6-pin adaptors:

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-SATPCIEXADAP-6-Inch-Express-Adapter/dp/B007Y91B80/ref=pd_sim_pc_2

Single SATA to 6-pin also exist and are probably enough.


Possibly but then again possibly not.

The SATA connector was not chosen because it needed 1.5A per pin and parts were available with only 1A or in 15+7 form (power+data) and ended up costing more than the PCI-E.

The Molex can push 11A per pin. You might even be able to use a Molex splitter (you'd still be testing the power limits though).

The SATA connectors use 3 pins per voltage, so that's 4.5A per connector, which should be enough I believe.
1938  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary on: June 21, 2013, 03:37:58 AM
Each K16 have a power connector, power plug or suggestions 2.5/5.5mm Type D Molex power connector.
Each K16 has a PCI Express power connector. That's the 6 pin standard one seen on most PCI Express cards, and commonly available on ATX power supplies. Molex adapters are cheaply available, as are PCIe splitters, but be sure to use ones that have thick enough wire to handle 4A without getting hot.

The 6 pin PCIE cables use 3 x 12V lines, providing 6.25A and a a maximum wattage of 75W. That should allow 2 devices to be powered per cable using a splitter.

Also, how many amps does a K16 use?
1939  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary on: June 21, 2013, 03:13:51 AM
What are the options/alternatives for the k16 heatsinks?
There are many options covered in this thread, I suggest you look at some rather than having people repeat them over and over.

Type the word heatsink into the search and you should get 6 pages of hits.

People shouldn't need to search through multiple pages of mostly irrelevant information to find 1 comment which makes a passing mention of the info you're looking for.

Any kit that is currently ready should be linked to in the initial post.
1940  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: How to power 16 Klondike K16s? on: June 21, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
One pci-e lead from the power supply typically contains two pci-e connectors. A k64 contains four k16 boards, so one pci-e lead with two splitters can power one k64 board.

I believe what I originally said was correct.


I don't believe it can. A 6 pin PCIE cable has 3 x 12V lines providing 6.25A and a maximum wattage of 75W. A K16 uses 32W so you'd only be able to power 2 K16s from a PCIE cable.
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