put out by a NXT guy trying to pump that coin. I hope the rent-a-troll above answered that question for you. NXT is paying this person to make sure you don't hear what I have to say. keep that in mind. |
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Actually Gavin Andresen responded to a thread a few days ago re. NXT and they turned that into a news item along the lines : "GAVIN LOVES NXT".
NXT is a propaganda pump and dump scam. That's about it. This guy LiQio is paid to follow me around and raise some accusation against me any time I mention NXT. They think this is an effective strategy for boosting their coin price.
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I am 100% NOT A NXT GUY trying to pump the !@#$ NXT coin. I despise the NXT scam.  there are some links to Preston's blog there. His statements are somewhat complex and are in several places so I put them all together for convenience. |
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Wait. I think ordoliberalism refers exactly to what neoliberalism originally meant! Maybe they should be called neo-ordos. Ordiots would be to negative.  Germans just love Ordnung dont they?  "Ordnung ist das halbe Leben"Regarding Voorhees. I'm curious. Is there evidence that Voorhees presents what I would call liberatarianism and you would call neoliberalism as "new ideas"?
Read his tweets. It's over-the-top anarcho-capitalism. Bitcoin can be very fairly called a "new idea", but the ideas of individual liberty have a long history and my impression of libertarians is that most of them learn something of this long history. I mean, at least people tend to know who von Mises, Hayek, Friedman and Rothbard were. They also know Ayn Rand, but that leads to lots more infighting. Even earlier there were influences from Lysander Spooner to Rose Wilder Lane that get talked about. Go to a libertarian meeting. They'd rather bore you with history than pretend all their ideas are new. But get ready for arguments. Libertarians always discuss until they find an area where they disagree. And there's always an area where they disagree with each other. Yes it's like 'herding cats'. The are by nature disagreeable people. also see "The Wörgl Experiment", Community Currency theorists worship this incident in history and insinuate that had we accepted what was learned at Wörgl, we never would have had WWII. They are god-tier Godwinists. I think they get a bit excessive about this particular moment and use this to parade around other ideas such as Demurrage. We had, and still have, quite a few community currencies here in the US. And given that I think a lot of the free market ideas and people ended up in America because they were pushed out by the Nationalist Socialists(Nazi). and btw- not sure why were knocking Preston Byrne. He wrote some great articles about BitShares. |
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You'll see people from all over the political spectrum, this is a technology.
If I were pushed I would have to say that, if anything, BTC has more in common with communitarianism than, say, neo liberalism - wether that be in its open source development, communities here like Bitcointalk, or in the (decentralised) nature of the protocol itself. some factions might be described this way. This isn't the Voorhees/Ver coalition though, they are hard-core libertarian/anarchist. I have read a bit of Amitai Etzioni. |
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Moin moin, Well if you want to learn about something or someone, you can 1) listen to that person's opponents, 2) listen to those that praise that person 3) listen to what that person says him/herself. So the same goes for Neoliberalism. You're not going to get the complete picture of a philosophy by reading Murry Rothbard or Ayn Rand. btw- Germans do have some of the best economic thinking in the world at the present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordoliberalismre. Erik, some accuse me here of attacking him. That's not true, although he has made unwarranted accusations towards BM in the past. Erik is an outspoken 'leader' and naturally you can expect to be criticized. You can't start complaining everyone is attacking you if you volunteer to take a public role. |
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Guten Tag, I'm curious if there is evidence of supposed "neoliberals" calling themselves "neoliberals" or if this is a term primarily used by the opponents of alleged "neoliberals."
a good observation. I pointed out elsewhere that the site the quote came from might be described as Chomskian marxist. In Germany, I've only heard the term applied (always negatively) to the FDP, the sort of mainstream "liberal"/"libertarian" party. The FDP is quite hated right now, but I attribute this to some oddities in German thinking. Germans seem to think the opposite of socialism is...national socialism. Since "neoliberals" aren't socialists, they are, by some skewed thinking, somewhere down the road to national socialism. It's quite odd. My solution is to not take people who think this way very seriously.
a good book: "Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Change" by Jonah GoldbergContrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term “National socialism”). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities—where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist. I generally get the feeling when people apply a "neo" prefix to something they don't like (e.g., "neoconservative" or "neoliberal"), it's meant to suggest "neonazi" without saying it. It's a kind of neogodwinism.
In response to the question "Are Bitcoiners Neoliberals?" I decided to do some quick reading.
A quick scan of the Wikipedia page on neoliberalism says the term was coined by a German, Alexander Rüstow, in 1938. It was to distinguish them from "classical liberalism" (as advocated by von Mises and Hayek) because neoliberals advocated state intervention. In fact, Rüstow is considered one of the fathers of the "Social Market Economy" (again, according to Wikipedia, so research primary sources if you want more reliable information). The "Social Market Economy" doesn't sound anything like what the allegedly "neoliberal" bitcoiners advocate.
a lot of free market ideas in America can be traced to the region of Germany(which had different political boundaries at the time). Here we have the 'Austrian Economics' school, Murray Rothbard being one of it's proponents. The history here gets fairly complex but to summarize, Roosevelt who brought The New Deal(early American Socialism) was also the president who fought Hitler. The Wikipedia page for "neoliberalism" also says this: "According to Boas and Gans-Morse the term neoliberalism is nowadays mainly used by critics as a pejorative term."
Without looking into it further, I would conclude two things:
1. Using the term in its original historical sense, the bitcoiners to which some of you are referring are not "neoliberals" because they don't advocate state intervention in economic affairs. They could possibly be called "classical liberals."
2. Using the term in its modern, pejorative sense, the bitcoiners to which some of you are referring are "neoliberals" because you want to insult them.
The current term noeliberalism refers to political movements that want to break down national sovereignty, freely trade and commodify natural resources, labor, and such. In that sense they are closely quartered with anarchists(that much is obvious to anyone who reads this board). Marxism does admittedly serve a scholar well in these cases because he describes this sort of activity perfectly, whereas the 'libertarian' types view all the negatives as temporary collateral costs on the journey to Ayn Randian Utopia(which never arrives, sounds like Marxism). "Neoliberalism" is often used in a perjorative sense, but also it is a good description of this political outlook and is a good signifier for further research. These aren't new ideas and 'thought leaders' like Voorhees try to present them as though they are new and novel. The cryptokiddies gush with excitement at the thought that they won't have to answer to 'the man' anymore. They may have to answer to Erik Voorhees though. Grüß, -bm |
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If you want to hear the difference between a reasonable person and a "Bitcoin Wing Nut" listen to Preston Byrne and Stephanie on Let's Talk Bitcoin http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholderHe makes perfect sense and then look at all the comments of the story. They claim he is a State lover, not libertarian, and on and on. All he did was describe reality (and I usually can't stand lawyers). I could not find one valid objection to what he said or any explanation as to why he would be wrong for the position he is in. All the regulations have to do with interfacing Bitcoin with the legacy system that these people say they want eliminated so why should they care? The proposed regs are for people that still want to use banks. Not that I agree with the proposed regs but that is what they are. I often thought the same, when I am listening to LTB. Sometimes I am not paying much attention, when Stephanie is listening. . |
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How many years do I have to go before I start seeing that? I don't think I know any hardened criminals, and I don't think I'm doing anything immoral. I don't even use the drugs I advocate legalizing, unless you count sudafed.
and what country do you live in? |
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Bitcoin is the technology and users have many different political views. Do only marxist have cars? no. The users of bitcoin have neoliberals, socialist, marxist, anarchist and even statist views. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=723537.0Yes, anyone with any agenda can use Bitcoin. what I am talking about are the people like Erik Vorhees, Roger Ver, Charlie Shrem, Stephanie Murphy, etc. who latched onto Bitcoin as way of promoting their agenda. They often misrepresent Bitcoin when it fits their agenda because they are not rally promoting Bitcoin. They think that their agenda is going to be "proven" if Bitcoin is successful. Take a look at that Bitcoin Bounty Hunter site. The funniest part is posting "court documents" of the Bitcoinia lawsuit which consists of just a complaint. It says Roger Ver, Jesse Powell, Jed McCaleb etc. are suing Amir Taaki, etc. for "breach of contract." But if you read the complaint you can see NONE of the people suing have a copy of the contract but they claim if you get ahold of Amir he has a copy and that will prove their case. So now he puts out a "bounty" because law enforcement is not doing their job. How ridiculous can this get? Who in their right mind would use financial services run by any of these people? The simple fact is that this group(perhaps several groups) operate under some vague ethos referred to by different names(libertarianism, cryptoanarchy). It quickly devolves into extortion, harassment, death threats, etc. You can't do business without a justice system. What these people are is a mafia. They will quickly find themselves surrounded by hardened criminals and doing things that are strictly immoral, where they may have started far more innocently. I think Ross Ulbricht set the mold here. This very same group you delineate is calling Ross a hero. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkRhBOZSw38To me Panama doesn't really sound so glorious. Maybe you get a bigger house and lots of money- but I'll take my little house and a simpler life in America any day. |
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Bitcoin is the technology and users have many different political views. Do only marxist have cars? no. The users of bitcoin have neoliberals, socialist, marxist, anarchist and even statist views. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=723537.0Take a look at that Bitcoin Bounty Hunter site. The funniest part is posting "court documents" of the Bitcoinia lawsuit which consists of just a complaint. |
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I'm not singling out anyone.
Voorhees is a major vocal opponent of Bitlicense- this tends to give some background to his statements.
Someone could move to NYC, build a similar service to Coinapult where users don't have to be concerned about the owners wholesaling their private data.
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E-commerce privacy laws are fairly complex. You can be sure major retailers like Amazon or Overstock adhere to them.
Financial privacy and disclosure laws are even MORE complex. You can be sure American companies adhere to them. You can NOT be sure that eg. Swiss or Panamanian companies adhere to them.
US and Germany arguably have the most extensive consumer protection laws in this area. So if you want a safe transaction, go with a US or German based E-commerce firm.
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well Circle is a US company and your information is protected by US Federal law(true for any Credit Card processor). Not so for Panama-based Coinbase.
WTF are you talking about? The FBI and NSA are actively storing all emails and transactions despite any 4th amendment protections you may assume you have. I don't trust any government with this data, but would much rather have it stored in some Panamanian data center for a few days rather than in Utah for 100 years. you would rather have your personal id information including Bitcoin activity in some private database in panama that can be freely marketed to ANY PARTY? can you please explain the logic here? You are trying to vilify me (not sure why) please Erik, I'm not trying to vilify you. My posts are 100% about security problems with Coinapult. Someone mentioned above that you renounced your American citizenship. That person is wrong. Do you think the information on bitcointalk.org is accurate?ps. awesome forum avatar  Read: http://bit-post.com/top-influential-bitcoiners-to-follow-on-twitter/THANKS! Erik what do you say to this? Internet hearsay?  |
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When purchasing physical goods online, do you have an issue with providing the retailer your shipping information?
in the case of major retailers there are laws about what they can do with that data. Coinapult has no such restrictions. They don't believe in laws at all actually. You can read Erik's tweets about that. |
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that's an interesting way to end a discussion that shows your viewpoints are actually anti-privacy and anti-individualism.
Holy shit.... look at your post and trust history! You are either bat-shit crazy or an annoying troll. Either way I'm going to take your advice, end the discussion and block you altogether. read more about why this user is so mad and can't contain his furious anger : http://blog.bluemeanie.net |
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