good, you should never have faith in anything. faith is the antithesis of reason and evidence.
Do you really believe that? |
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This is pathetic. If you're still able to retrieve your nose, I'd recommend it. I'm not saying you need to attack them, I'm still of the opinion that what they are fairly honest. Hold them responsible for their promises though.
I don't feel a promise has been broken. Never have. I placed an order, knowing that it was risky, including delivery time. I fully expected the delivery schedule to slip. And all signs are that he's busting his butt to get work done. That's cool by me. I know stuff happens, and I would much rather have a business relationship with an ethical, smart, hard-working person who isn't on the forums all the time, than someone who is unethical, not smart, or lazy. So far, Yifu has earned the benefit of the doubt, and I don't feel the least bit let down. When it comes, it comes. Buddy I envy your tolerance but the issue is this - it's not a playstaion its a business tool. [snip] This is exactly the case for the ASIC miners. None of the companies have behaved in what would be considered a professional manner in any other industry and this is fact. I will say though in Avalon's defence they are by far the best of bad bunch. Absolutely agree with the bolded. And to further your analogy I am assuming your company doesn't get 100% payment for the job before you do a single fucking thing LOL at best I am sure you get a small deposit and possibly a substantial payment on substantial completion (if your lucky and the deal was structured like that). If the BTC world isn't the modern wild west ATM then I don't know what is! I recognize it's not a playstation, it's a business tool. Obviously I bought it expecting a certain ROI, and I realize that every day delayed is delaying "breakeven day" by more than a day. But I built in those assumptions into my expectations. People complain that the ASIC companies aren't being professional, but frankly this isn't a professional environment. Look through this topic of 300+ messages and compare how many messages are of the variety "they're crooks" vs. how many are professional, level-headed posts. Frankly, if a customer comes screaming into my business that I am a crook, I feel less of a need to reply, until we can get the conversation to a reasonable, business-person to business-person level. And if they spew venomous attacks on internet forums, any response of mine wouldn't be aimed at them, but aimed at the level-headed customers and prospects. I have "fired" customers whom I can't make happy - they're just not worth the trouble. I have been a part of buying IT equipment and software as business tools for 35+ years. (and on the contrary, I have never touched a playstation in my life!  ) In every case I can think of, the business tools were purchased because it was believed that they would provide a certain Return on the Investment. MANY weren't "off-the shelf" products, but instead had to be built to specification. Back when mini-computers broke onto the scene, it was the same way - those early customers knew they were taking a chance with delays, potentially stuff that didn't perform as expected, etc. But I saw very few customers with pitchforks in hand (perhaps because I only dealt with top-tier start-up vendors, if there's such a thing)! Regarding traditional contracts of not paying in full until the goods are received... I chose to accept the terms being offered. I could have walked away. But those terms (including price, risks, and 100% prepayment) were market-driven; Had I not agreed to them, someone else would have! So it's somewhat pointless to argue now that somehow we are being screwed because we had to pay up-front. Frankly, if my choice up-front was to (A) pay in full (and expedite shipment), or (B) pay 30% down and receive an email when it's getting ready to ship, which would trigger my 70% payment (plus an extra fee to cover the cost of this overhead), and then it would ship upon full payment, I probably would have chosen the former anyway. But the market didn't even demand this sort of pricing. Avalon's "no BS terms and conditions" pretty much said it all - that this is not for people without intestinal fortitude. "Here are the terms, take it or leave it." I took a deep breath and sent my Bitcoins. I knew what I was signing up for. Yes, I'm anxious and disappointed that I don't have it yet. But, no, I don't feel this is much different from my expectation. |
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This is pathetic. If you're still able to retrieve your nose, I'd recommend it. I'm not saying you need to attack them, I'm still of the opinion that what they are fairly honest. Hold them responsible for their promises though.
I don't feel a promise has been broken. Never have. I placed an order, knowing that it was risky, including delivery time. I fully expected the delivery schedule to slip. And all signs are that he's busting his butt to get work done. That's cool by me. I know stuff happens, and I would much rather have a business relationship with an ethical, smart, hard-working person who isn't on the forums all the time, than someone who is unethical, not smart, or lazy. So far, Yifu has earned the benefit of the doubt, and I don't feel the least bit let down. When it comes, it comes. |
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FUD everywhere by people who can't do math.
1. these are not batch #1,2 or 3 units.
2. all the openWRT firmware is burnt from a single image in batches,
3. the openWRT is used in more than just production units.
4. all burn-in is 24 or more hours, you all think we seriously only would have 700+ bitcoins if they were mining? LOL
I can't believe I'm repeating myself by saying we are not mining with batch #2 or #3 units.
5. complains will just lead into refunds, since clearly people are not happy with Avalon ASIC.
personally I'd love to issue these refunds so these people can go find the next thing to complain about and I can get some peace n quiet.
6. I'm going back to deal with trade-in and damaged orders.
HEY, I'm so glad I defended you guys! ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236348.msg2500298#msg2500298https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236348.msg2500395#msg2500395) Looks like my reasoning was exactly correct - that it was a copied image. Again, I will not complain if my order gets moved to the top of the stack, as a non-whiner!  |
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He was an ATF agent. The power that comes with that title is huge. Not just "a couple of guys"
I think the ATF agent was the friend who told the story about the "couple of guys". I think I saw a documentary on this, called "Beverly Hills Cop".... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL1d7QmGDo8 |
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I feel that they should be mining on the testnet if they were going to be mining for an extended period of time. If they were going to be mining on the mainnet to do testing it should be no more than 24-48 hours at most. After the short test period as long as the unit did not experience any issues it should be shipped out immediately. It is unfortunate that they are mining and profiting off the customers units that have been crowd funded.  Did you do the math? If they have 1200 units in batch 2 and 3, and they are currently generating about 3 BTC per day (and more back in April), how many Bitcoins would have been generated with a 24-48 hour burn-in test? Hint: A lot more than the 716 BTC mentioned here! |
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It would be wrong as their selling point was always the line that they don't mine and that none of their employers don't own a single Avalon.
And, so what if the working configuration wasn't from one of their employees, or wasn't an Avalon. Maybe they shipped the first unit TO A CUSTOMER (or to a famous Bitcoin developer), and then decided to clone his configuration. It's just not that hard to come up with a plausible explanation that does not involve any sneaky, underhanded cheating. And, it seems to me it's best to think "innocent until proven guilty", before throwing around "scammer" accusations! |
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Devil's Advocate:
Suppose Avalon discovered that the best way to ensure a working system was to clone the software from an existing working system, and so what you see is a direct copy of an existing configuration that they were using for their own personal mining.
Is that so wrong?
I can't figure out why people want to jump to the "he's a crook" conclusion.
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Can we all please feel bad for Yifu for a moment? He got woken up in the middle of the night, because people who have given him nearly 10 million dollars without a word of response are getting uneasy. I really feel sorry for Yifu, it must be tough.
I saw the videos of the conference, and was satisfied for 60 days. I don't need a minute-by-minute update, and fully support Yifu, and DO feel sorry for him, for having to tolerate the BS from individual orders. I don't want to be a pain in his side. I'm just hoping that my polite silence moves my order higher up in the queue. Yifu, you know who's supporting you! We won't tell, if you slip that order to the top of the pile!  |
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Wow. Just, wow.
If this is not a joke, then it's a huge step forward for bitcoin.
I assure you, it's not a joke. The next step is for a municipality to step forward and ask us (E-Gov Link) to enable Bitcoin payments. And so if some citizens contact their local city hall / town hall / township / village hall administrator, and say "hey, why don't you accept Bitcoins", then maybe the progressive ones will give us a call. Feel free to direct them to the press release and to our website. http://www2.egovlink.com/press-release-bitcoin.cfm |
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Well that's certainly a little underwhelming.
Hi. I'm with E-Gov Link. Yeah, we're no Amazon, but we're doing what we can to help the Bitcoin economy. I'm of the mindset of "if we all do what we can, where we can, to further the acceptance of Bitcoin, then this will succeed." and this is something we could do. We have customers across the US, in over 30 states. We're dealing with small and medium sized municipalities - cities, towns, townships, villages, and counties, and we provide web solutions for them. Glad to answer any questions. We also covered a lot on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b63xq/pay_the_government_with_bitcoin_leading_municipal/We look at Bitcoin as a competitive advantage. (Quote me on that!) |
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I save bitcoins, I will spend them to buy cheeseburgers, I will use them to buy computers, ipads, iphones, whatever.
But hell no am I giving Uncle Sam something that increases in value.
He get's dollars.
Well, I went out on a limb and recommended to my boss that we integrate Bitcoin into our payment process. Please don't tell me I made a huge mistake! And this isn't really Uncle Sam - it's his kids: Cities, Towns, Townships, Villages across the US. |
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Pay the Government with Bitcoin? Leading Municipal Software company announces support for Bitcoin
Press Release: http://www2.egovlink.com/press-release-bitcoin.cfmReddit Discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b63xq/pay_the_government_with_bitcoin_leading_municipal/Thought you guys might like to know this. We decided to integrate Bitcoin payments into our E-Gov Suite of products, so that citizens can pay for municipal services with Bitcoin. This means that our customers - cities, towns, and villages across the US - will be able to accept Bitcoins for payments of services like permits, utilities, class or event registration, shelter reservations, or even parking tickets. We just use our favorite Bitcoin Payment processor to handle the transaction and the conversion to Dollars. Thought you guys would want to know. I think that government entities accepting Bitcoin will continue the momentum for Bitcoin! I bet you can't wait to pay a parking ticket with Bitcoin!
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As such it is possible to go back and calculate that list at any
given point in the past.
Of course! Why didn't I think of that. I wonder if a graph over time would be meaningful! All sorts of interesting conclusions conclusions could be drawn... (some of them even accurate!) |
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done
You haven't been tracking these over time, by any chance, have you? I'd love to see if the quantity required to be on the list rises or falls over time, and maybe a graph showing what the quantities have been for various positions on the list: - top of the list - position 100 - position 200 - position 300 - position 400 - last on the list Are the rich getting richer? Is wealth consolidating? Is wealth dispersing as $/BTC rises? Oh, and I'd love to see another list when you get a chance. Just to capture this for future reference.... For the current (2/23) list: #1: 111111.11257544 100: 9059.77000000 200: 4994.00000000 300: 3850.06000000 400: 3000.00000000 412: 2981.31200000 (last) |
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Another argument is that "People will not spend their deflationary Bitcoins today, knowing that they will be worth more tomorrow".
There are several ways to argue against this point.
1) People buy computers, memory and disk drives, knowing that they could wait until tomorrow and buy so much more.
2) Every transaction has two sides, a seller and a buyer, yet this argument only looks at the buyer side. If everyone "knows" they will be worth more tomorrow, then the same logic can be applied to the merchant. They will WANT the deflationary currency, and will offer better deals to get it.
I am highly motivated to hold my Bitcoin, believing that it will be worth much more tomorrow. But I will spend it with Bitcoin merchants to reward them for accepting Bitcoin, and because I'm likely to get a "cash discount". (My bitcoins are easily replaced.)
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With the blockchain bloating, I'm concerned about people that created wallets with the Satoshi client to purchase bitcoins and then just made backups of the wallet file. If they don't access the wallet file for many years, how will they load the wallet again if the blockchain swells? Should they be warned against using this client for long term storage?
One would think, if you want long term storage, the Satoshi client would be the best choice (or perhaps Armory, which uses the Satoshi client). For long term storage you can afford to wait for network sync. If you want lower security with instant access, one can use a web wallet. But move your bitcoins off a centralized website as soon as possible... For "long term storage", I'd recommend a paper wallet from bitaddress.org. |
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I think there should be a one-liner that appeals to the merchants. Any ideas?
Want lower transaction fees and zero fraud? Accept Bitcoin!
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