Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here.

[BitSyncom]

FUD everywhere by people who can't do math.

1. these are not batch #1,2 or 3 units.
2. all the openWRT firmware is burnt from a single image in batches,
3. the openWRT is used in more than just production units.
4. all burn-in is 24 or more hours, you all think we seriously only would have 700+ bitcoins if they were mining? LOL
        I can't believe I'm repeating myself by saying we are not mining with batch #2 or #3 units.
5. complains will just lead into refunds, since clearly people are not happy with Avalon ASIC.
        personally I'd love to issue these refunds so these people can go find the next thing to complain about and I can get some peace n quiet.
6. I'm going back to deal with trade-in and damaged orders.

[infested999]

4. all burn-in is 24 or more hours, you all think we seriously only would have 700+ bitcoins if they were mining? LOL

He just confirmed that units have been burned-in for 24 hours. Was this done on the testnet or the real network?

[pajak666]

OK
But maybe give us some sort of estimated shipping date?

[koob]

OK
But maybe give us some sort of estimated shipping date?

+1. Is the production pace already 50units/day ? How many left from batch #2 ?

[jerfelix]

FUD everywhere by people who can't do math.

1. these are not batch #1,2 or 3 units.
2. all the openWRT firmware is burnt from a single image in batches,
3. the openWRT is used in more than just production units.
4. all burn-in is 24 or more hours, you all think we seriously only would have 700+ bitcoins if they were mining? LOL
        I can't believe I'm repeating myself by saying we are not mining with batch #2 or #3 units.
5. complains will just lead into refunds, since clearly people are not happy with Avalon ASIC.
        personally I'd love to issue these refunds so these people can go find the next thing to complain about and I can get some peace n quiet.
6. I'm going back to deal with trade-in and damaged orders.

HEY, I'm so glad I defended you guys!

(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236348.msg2500298#msg2500298
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236348.msg2500395#msg2500395)

Looks like my reasoning was exactly correct - that it was a copied image.

Again, I will not complain if my order gets moved to the top of the stack, as a non-whiner!   

[coinedBit]

4. all burn-in is 24 or more hours, you all think we seriously only would have 700+ bitcoins if they were mining? LOL

He just confirmed that units have been burned-in for 24 hours. Was this done on the testnet or the real network?

at least, we've got a statement now - you can now do the maths: 24hrs hashing per unit vs. 700 resulting bitcoins 

[rovchris]

I have to say ASIC's are damaging bitcoin.

The reason for this is the manner in which all the companies that have been manufacturing the devices have rolled out the technology. All it has achieved is empowering a very small minority which is no different to having a central bank. The people that get their hands on them first make such vast profits they can then expand exponentially which makes it extremely difficult for anyone without very deep pockets to get involved.

The entire point of bitcoins was to empower the people not a select few corporations who in essence will become just like the banks.

It is a very dangerous game that is being played here. The only reason Bitcoins have any value is because of the community that supports it. If you alienate that community what will happen to the value???

I realise it is a new technology and it takes time to ramp up production but maybe it would have made more sense to stock pile and then release to even the playing field. Maybe the manufactures should have got together to discuss the issue of releasing the technology.

How many people as percentage of all miners actually have asics - I imagine well under 5%, yet they are probably generating 70% of the network hashrate.

Bitcoin has arrived where it is today because anybody could get involved. Maybe ASICminer realised this and hence the reason they are selling massively overpriced ASICs that are available next day delivery - the kind of throw the dog a bone mentality.

But alas as always GREED is the driving factor as opposed to the ethos of the currency.

If these asic companies put themselves out of business they only have themselves to blame.

I really would like Bitcoin to be the success it deserves to be but I have a bad feeling.

This may be partly the reason why there has been no Government interference because they can clearly see it will destroy itself at this rate.

If MTGox start trading LTC it will be very interesting to see what happens to the price of BTC.

All this testing of devices on the live network WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE COMPANIES. If these businesses want to use them to mine then they should not have taken anybodies money and just used their own investment - instead they have used us as an interest free no risk loan and in my eyes that makes them as bad as a bank - basically shafting the little guy. All the risk of an investor with none of the return.

You don't see Ford testing customers cars on the public roads, or Intel testing their processors in their office PC's before selling them to customers. All it achieves is brining the currency into disrepute through bad business practise.

It's like the saying goes the money is only as good as peoples faith in it.                                                                      

[FCTaiChi]

FUD everywhere by people who can't do math.

1. these are not batch #1,2 or 3 units.
2. all the openWRT firmware is burnt from a single image in batches,
3. the openWRT is used in more than just production units.
4. all burn-in is 24 or more hours, you all think we seriously only would have 700+ bitcoins if they were mining? LOL
        I can't believe I'm repeating myself by saying we are not mining with batch #2 or #3 units.
5. complains will just lead into refunds, since clearly people are not happy with Avalon ASIC.
        personally I'd love to issue these refunds so these people can go find the next thing to complain about and I can get some peace n quiet.
6. I'm going back to deal with trade-in and damaged orders.

What does this have to do with math?  FUD doesn't necessarily apply here either, since there is no obvious connection to the OP and any competing company.
1.  People say a lot of things, this isn't necessarily proof, so please stop acting like we are idiots because we don't take your word.  It's failed us plenty.  Proof?
2.  Very reasonable and believable, sometimes when people say things there is logic behind it that makes it easy to believe.
3.  "
4.  Again this is just on your say so.  However people have been wanting to hear this, so I'm sure many will find this comforting.  You might need to put someone on part time media control, just so you can keep up with these types of discussions.  It's very reasonable for people to start questioning when things don't go as planned.
5.  This is horrible business practice and should be stopped by any company that cares to maintain the respect of the consumer base.
6.  Awesome, hope some press releases make it out into a wide enough audience that you don't need to constantly waste your time with us.

HEY, I'm so glad I defended you guys!

(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236348.msg2500298#msg2500298
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236348.msg2500395#msg2500395)

Looks like my reasoning was exactly correct - that it was a copied image.

Again, I will not complain if my order gets moved to the top of the stack, as a non-whiner!  

This is pathetic.  If you're still able to retrieve your nose, I'd recommend it.  I'm not saying you need to attack them, I'm still of the opinion that what they are fairly honest.  Hold them responsible for their promises though.

[CoinHoarder]

lol @ BitSyncom threatening to refund for customers that complain.

Like... wtf... how dare you threaten your customers like that... you are no better than BFL when you start doing that kind of shit, that is just wrong.

You realize most of my orders are not even mine? Some people have payed up to 2.5x what I originally payed just to get shares in payouts of the equipment I ordered. Do you realize how pissed these people will be when I tell them that BitSyncom cancelled my order and they now get <however much they payed> divided by 2.5 back?

Not only would they be quite mad, but I would be seeking any legal recourse possible for loss of income, the negative impact this would have on my reputation, and also on behalf of all the angry investors.

Customers have the right to complain, especially in this case because the complaints stem directly from your false promises and inability to deliver.

[Flying Hellfish]

You guys are funny,

Dont bother fcking complaining because at the time of ordering your batch2 and batch 3, you accepted no QUESTIONs term.

Disclosure: I don't have any pre-order or interests related to avalon hardware. I don't think I am the only one in this thread. Still I do "fcking complain", as you say.
Being in the BTC world does not give right to a company to behave like an ass-hole, or worse, to behave illegaly. And being a BTC customer does not mean you should behave like a sheep, not rising something you consider a very serious problem.

Buddy you may not like it  but welcome to Deadwood, gonna be like this for a while in the BTC world IMO.  The market gave these companies the power to behave like assholes, operate like sketchy/shoddy organizations (possible illegal?)...  LOL Avalon even basically had a LOL FUCK YOU type term (ie no bullshit iirc was how they actually termed it on the website...).  And they seemingly see customers as an annoyance. Miners are still doing it this second (KnC, Bitfury etc).  The power is the coins and the consumers have them, once the companies have them out of your wallet and into theirs you become so much less important.  The consumers have the power they just choose not to use it.  I have and I will not be buying ASIC hardware for quite a while if ever because I prefer to deal with legitimate professional organizations of which there are currently exactly 0 IMO (at least according to my criteria anyways).

[Matthew N. Wright]

lol @ BitSyncom threatening to refund for customers that complain.

Like... wtf... how dare you threaten your customers like that... you are no better than BFL when you start doing that kind of shit, that is just wrong.

You realize most of my orders are not even mine? Some people have payed up to 2.5x what I originally payed just to get shares in payouts of the equipment I ordered. Do you realize how pissed these people will be when I tell them that BitSyncom cancelled my order and they now get <however much they payed> divided by 2.5 back?

Not only would they be quite mad, but I would be seeking any legal recourse possible for loss of income and the negative impact this would have on my reputation and on behalf of all the angry investors.

Customers have the right to complain, especially in this case because the complaints stem directly from your false promises and inability to deliver.

This. The childishness of Yifu's responses is getting old. This is from someone who used to call *me* unprofessional in the DCAO. Why don't they hire someone to do PR for them to help them on the front side? There is nothing wrong with customers wanting to know more, the attitude of "goddamnit, why do I have to answer so many questions after taking all your money?" is a sign of a scammer, I'm sorry. Try to remember Pirate and tell me that you want to be remembered like that, Yifu.

[Bitcoinorama]

You guys are funny,

Dont bother fcking complaining because at the time of ordering your batch2 and batch 3, you accepted no QUESTIONs term.

Disclosure: I don't have any pre-order or interests related to avalon hardware. I don't think I am the only one in this thread. Still I do "fcking complain", as you say.
Being in the BTC world does not give right to a company to behave like an ass-hole, or worse, to behave illegaly. And being a BTC customer does not mean you should behave like a sheep, not rising something you consider a very serious problem.

Buddy you may not like it  but welcome to Deadwood, gonna be like this for a while in the BTC world IMO.  The market gave these companies the power to behave like assholes, operate like sketchy/shoddy organizations (possible illegal?)...  LOL Avalon even basically had a LOL FUCK YOU type term (ie no bullshit iirc was how they actually termed it on the website...).  And they seemingly see customers as an annoyance. Miners are still doing it this second (KnC, Bitfury etc).  The power is the coins and the consumers have them, once the companies have them out of your wallet and into theirs you become so much less important.  The consumers have the power they just choose not to use it.  I have and I will not be buying ASIC hardware for quite a while if ever because I prefer to deal with legitimate professional organizations of which there are currently exactly 0 IMO (at least according to my criteria anyways).

I disagree there is a huge opportunity for a legitimate business here. Yifu maybe young, but I sincerely hope he is not greedy, or naive, because he may well be turning his nose up at a genuine once in a lifetime business opportunity right in front of him. Integrity is everything...

[rovchris]

lol @ BitSyncom threatening to refund for customers that complain.

Like... wtf... how dare you threaten your customers like that... you are no better than BFL when you start doing that kind of shit, that is just wrong.

You realize most of my orders are not even mine? Some people have payed up to 2.5x what I originally payed just to get shares in payouts of the equipment I ordered. Do you realize how pissed these people will be when I tell them that BitSyncom cancelled my order and they now get <however much they payed> divided by 2.5 back?

Not only would they be quite mad, but I would be seeking any legal recourse possible for loss of income and the negative impact this would have on my reputation and on behalf of all the angry investors.

Customers have the right to complain, especially in this case because the complaints stem directly from your false promises and inability to deliver.

This. The childishness of Yifu's responses is getting old. This is from someone who used to call *me* unprofessional in the DCAO. Why don't they hire someone to do PR for them to help them on the front side? There is nothing wrong with customers wanting to know more, the attitude of "goddamnit, why do I have to answer so many questions after taking all your money?" is a sign of a scammer, I'm sorry. Try to remember Pirate and tell me that you want to be remembered like that, Yifu.

I totally agree - can you imagine Intel saying that to their customers.

Personally I feel this is the beginning of the end for Bitcoin between massive mining pools and the most unprofessional roll out of any technology ever (ASIC's) bitcoin is about as empowering as a slow roasted dog turd.

I am going to liquidate my hoard unless someone can convince that coin generation is NOT going to end up in the hands of a few companies.

[rovchris]

Avalon only have themselves to blame - If you bought a mobile phone that had some random telephone numbers saved in the contacts what would you think?

It is very sloppy and unprofessional and hence the reason they now have to spend time trying to clear the air.

If I purchased a Cisco switch that had some random config loaded - it would be going straight back to Cisco demanding to know why I have a second hand item.

[Raize]

lol @ BitSyncom threatening to refund for customers that complain.

I don't think any actual customers are asking for a refund. Its not like we have suddenly lost faith in Avalon's ability to deliver. The vast majority of the people complaining here seem to think the Bitcoin protocol needs to change, which just goes to show you how few Avalon customers and actual miners are posting in this thread.

6. I'm going back to deal with trade-in and damaged orders.

Thanks, much appreciated. Again, I doubt any of the trade-ins want a "refund" because we haven't ordered anything yet, we've just lost two months of revenue on our Icarus devices is all. Obviously that's going to pale in comparison to having Avalons, but it happened all the same. Additionally, we were originally told the trade-ins would be handled first, prior to the other Batch #2 orders. You can imagine our surprise when folks from the February 2nd orders started getting their units. Perhaps they should be sent to first, given how much in BTC they paid for them, but if this is the case, I think we would have appreciated an update on it, since the conditions had changed.

IMHO, that's the only real complaint your customers have, the rest of this thread seems to be just nonsense you can disregard.

I am going to liquidate my hoard unless someone can convince that coin generation is NOT going to end up in the hands of a few companies.

Aside from the obvious fact that you shouldn't be hoarding something you don't believe has any value anyway, Avalon is one of the few companies that is selling shovels, not doing what ASICMiner is and consolidating mining control under one entity.

Do you even own *any* Bitcoin?

The only possible people I can imagine that could be upset about ASIC development would be Silk Road customers that spent 100+ Bitcoin on a bag of weed in November 2011 and are now pissed they didn't hold onto any of it. The rest of us have been anticipating and expecting ASIC development since at least the first FPGAs were being sold. It was the inevitable progression of things, after all.

[Bowjob]

See, I told you guys to stop bitching lest we get pwned. He's doing his best, we can't do much right now.

[Loredo]

So let's review the bidding. 

BFL is deemed, variously, to be disreputable, unreliable, or a flight risk.  Nobody trusts, or equally important, nobody likes them. 

ASIC miner is seen as a gouging monopolist, the Edison company of bitcoin, and unless you want to pay bubble prices for shares, it's nothing but a tax of 25% on the available bounty from mining.

Now YiFu has come across as a supercilious twit when faced with the most serious challenge to Avalon's credibility to date.

Yesterday I said I didn't think there'd be fallout from this.  I think I was wrong.  The hubris in his response, and the sharpness of the reactions here, strongly suggests that the only visible  "star" in bitcoin has, if not fallen, entered a dangerously low orbit. 

Mr. Cole?  OrSoC?  bitfury?  You-all paying attention here?  Nature abhors a vacuum.

Oh, and new pre-sale scammers with 1.75 Thps for $10K?  Don't even bother.  There's pitchforks and torches on the land tonight. 

[Flying Hellfish]

You guys are funny,

Dont bother fcking complaining because at the time of ordering your batch2 and batch 3, you accepted no QUESTIONs term.

Disclosure: I don't have any pre-order or interests related to avalon hardware. I don't think I am the only one in this thread. Still I do "fcking complain", as you say.
Being in the BTC world does not give right to a company to behave like an ass-hole, or worse, to behave illegaly. And being a BTC customer does not mean you should behave like a sheep, not rising something you consider a very serious problem.

Buddy you may not like it  but welcome to Deadwood, gonna be like this for a while in the BTC world IMO.  The market gave these companies the power to behave like assholes, operate like sketchy/shoddy organizations (possible illegal?)...  LOL Avalon even basically had a LOL FUCK YOU type term (ie no bullshit iirc was how they actually termed it on the website...).  And they seemingly see customers as an annoyance. Miners are still doing it this second (KnC, Bitfury etc).  The power is the coins and the consumers have them, once the companies have them out of your wallet and into theirs you become so much less important.  The consumers have the power they just choose not to use it.  I have and I will not be buying ASIC hardware for quite a while if ever because I prefer to deal with legitimate professional organizations of which there are currently exactly 0 IMO (at least according to my criteria anyways).

I disagree there is a huge opportunity for a legitimate business here. Yifu maybe young, but I sincerely hope he is not greedy, or naive, because he may well be turning his nose up at a genuine once in a lifetime business opportunity right in front of him. Integrity is everything...

Oh I agree that there is a HUGE opp for a legitimate company. I think a real company could do phenomenal (seeing as the shoddy ones are cleaning up a good one should conceivably be able to do even better).  I just don't see one ATM or in the near future (based on my personal criteria).  The reason I don't see one is because the market is not demanding it, if they did we would almost undoubtedly have one already or in the near future at least.  Until companies are no longer able to get interest free, low risk OPM it makes very little sense (business wise) to do anything differently, thus my expectation it will continue for a while.

[rovchris]

lol @ BitSyncom threatening to refund for customers that complain.

I don't think any actual customers are asking for a refund. Its not like we have suddenly lost faith in Avalon's ability to deliver. The vast majority of the people complaining here seem to think the Bitcoin protocol needs to change, which just goes to show you how few Avalon customers and actual miners are posting in this thread.

6. I'm going back to deal with trade-in and damaged orders.

Thanks, much appreciated. Again, I doubt any of the trade-ins want a "refund" because we haven't ordered anything yet, we've just lost two months of revenue on our Icarus devices is all. Obviously that's going to pale in comparison to having Avalons, but it happened all the same. Additionally, we were originally told the trade-ins would be handled first, prior to the other Batch #2 orders. You can imagine our surprise when folks from the February 2nd orders started getting their units. Perhaps they should be sent to first, given how much in BTC they paid for them, but if this is the case, I think we would have appreciated an update on it, since the conditions had changed.

IMHO, that's the only real complaint your customers have, the rest of this thread seems to be just nonsense you can disregard.

I am going to liquidate my hoard unless someone can convince that coin generation is NOT going to end up in the hands of a few companies.

Aside from the obvious fact that you shouldn't be hoarding something you don't believe has any value anyway, Avalon is one of the few companies that is selling shovels, not doing what ASICMiner is and consolidating mining control under one entity.

Do you even own *any* Bitcoin?

The only possible people I can imagine that could be upset about ASIC development would be Silk Road customers that spent 100+ Bitcoin on a bag of weed in November 2011 and are now pissed they didn't hold onto any of it. The rest of us have been anticipating and expecting ASIC development since the first FPGAs were being sold. It was the inevitable progression of things, after all.

Well Einstein until I can actually buy things with my Bitcoins that I actually need - what should I do with them. Give them away???

And where did I say I that I believed it had no value. Did you even read my post.

Have you even read the whitepaper on Bitcoins? Do you actually understand what the point of their creation was or did that bit completely slip by you?

[jerfelix]

This is pathetic.  If you're still able to retrieve your nose, I'd recommend it.  I'm not saying you need to attack them, I'm still of the opinion that what they are fairly honest.  Hold them responsible for their promises though.

I don't feel a promise has been broken.  Never have.

I placed an order, knowing that it was risky, including delivery time.  I fully expected the delivery schedule to slip.  And all signs are that he's busting his butt to get work done.  That's cool by me.

I know stuff happens, and I would much rather have a business relationship with an ethical, smart, hard-working person who isn't on the forums all the time, than someone who is unethical, not smart, or lazy.

So far, Yifu has earned the benefit of the doubt, and I don't feel the least bit let down.   When it comes, it comes.