I hear the real Navajo are sharpening their axes and aren't very happy with this attempt to "honor" them by appropriating their name and imagery. 

Yep.

You know this coin is dead on arrival because of the misappropriation of the Navajo name and symbols, right?

As far as I can see, you have no affiliation with the real Navajo people.

Do you guys not understand that naming your coin "Navajo" and misappropriating symbols of Navajo culture in your promotional imagery is ethically wrong?  If your coin goes anywhere, the real Navajo are going come and get you, and it won't be pleasant. 

Do you have anything to do with the real Navajo tribe?  Other than misappropriating their name and symbols as an alleged "honor" to the Codetalkers?

If you don't have any real connection to the Navajo, you're mighty stupid.  You don't "honor" somebody by taking their name and symbols and using it in your cryptocurrency venture.  What you are doing is basically cultural piracy.

Somebody get on the horn to Payu and tell him to give the guys down on the Navajo Nation a call about the new cryptocurrency called NavajoCoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=679791
https://twitter.com/NavajoCoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=680884.0


These dimwits have no apparent link to the Navajo but have appropriated Navajo-style colors and design in their website and, obviously, the name.  They claim it is to "honor" the Navajo Codetalkers.  Yes "honor" the Navajo by using their name and cultural symbols for a cryptocoin that has nothing to do with the tribe (other than cashing in on its image).

Can be spun as a reason why a genuinely Native American coin could be useful.  The real Navajo ought to be made aware of it too, if they aren't already.

My question:  

"What citizenships does Eddie hold, and has somebody confiscated his passports yet?"

Oh, and:

"What's the real deal on HF's relationship with the porno crowd?"

I'm sure neither is actually possible to ask and that the questions need to be directly pertinent to the bankruptcy process....

Meh.  Who cares?  Deleted.

What?  Have you been reading the comments of his Filipina friends on social networking sites? 

Maybe I'll sell some crumbs of other altcoin holdings and buy a few more MZC, just for old times' sake.  Still wish this coin would work.  Not sure the management has what it takes, although it's improving.

Anonymous Pirate's pubescent assholery might have had something to do with it.  Just saying.

Back to this question about the MPP.  I think there are three different cases, with possibly three different valuations.  Maybe more.

The basic three are:

1) People who bought Batch 1 BJs and then were "given" the MPP after purchase.

2) People who bought Batch 1 BJs after the MPP was included as an integral part of the purchase.  (=me, very few of us, maybe a dozen people, less who still care?)

3) People who bought Batch 2 BJs and paid extra for the MPP.


My thoughts:

In case #1, I don't have an answer for the value of the MPP.  I'm not sure what it is, but I think it is something.

In case #2, perhaps:  Purchase price minus BTC mined during the MPP calculation period equals amount of claim.  (= ~$4000 per BJ)

In case #3, assuming the BJ was delivered, then it's probably the amount extra that was paid for the MPP.


There are some tricky bits to this when it comes to considering BTC versus USD payments and value of the claim.  

And sorry, but this business about the MPP not having any value because of the lack of a specific delivery date doesn't make sense and can't be reconciled with the return promise of the MPP itself.  Correct, there was no date specified; but there is a date indicated by the promise of getting back to ROI.  That's the date at which the amount of hashpower provided under the MPP would achieve that result.  That was pledged. That date came and went months ago, obviously, without HF delivering.

In retrospect, it seems like a stupid promise to have made, and to have relied upon. But that's the deal that was offered and accepted.

It's pretty much academic, I suppose, at this date.  The general sentiment I agree with is that this needs to go criminal.


 

I don't at all agree that there was a lack of a delivery date on the MPP nor that the absence of a specific date means you have "no valid claim".

On the contrary.  I ordered my BJ *after* the MPP was announced, and the MPP pledge of "up to 4x" hashrate was definitely part of what I bought.  Now, I will agree that Hashfast was slippery about the MPP delivery date and this makes valuation a little more difficult than other orders, but certainly Hashfast ackknowldged owing the whole 4x, and it was pledged to be delivered within the timeframe during which it was useful.  That was the whole point of the MPP.  

So, what does/did a board cost?  $1500 a few weeks later when they came up for sale.  I think that's a reasonable number.  I suppose an alternative approach would be to take the exact bitcoin earned by the BJ within the calculation period, and then subtract the USD value of that bitcoin from the purchase price.

So, for example, if I paid $5750 for my BJ, but the BJ only mined $1500 worth of BTC in the MPP calculation period, then I could value my claim at $4250?

At the end of the day whether the claim is for $6000 or something like $4250, I doubt that makes much difference.  The point is just maybe we could agree on a reasonable method for calculating it.  Thinking about it, I kind of like the Cost - Actual BTC mined in MPP period = Claim formula better than $6000.  I may amend my court claim.  I just don't know if I can accurately reconstruct the exact BTC value the BJ generated in the specified period.

But there's no question in my mind as to the legitimacy of the claim in principle.  The MPP was explcitly part of the package I bought.

I filed a claim for unpaid Batch 1 MPP today.  I valued it at $6000 per Babyjet, calculated as 4 x BJ upgrade card @ $1500 each.  I hope that others with the MPP will do likewise.  This is in addition to the claim for the undelivered paid upgrade card claimed in the initial Chapter 7 filing.

I hope that whoever is reviewing the filed claims for the court will be at least somewhat familiar with Hashfast's sales model.  Because my MPP claim might look like a BJ claim, which it is not (they delivered the BJ, albeit late).  Hopefully the court will get it straight that each Batch 1 BJ, and some Batch 2 machines, were sold with the MPP and that, at least in the case of Batch 1 (I didn't follow the others), the full (4x) MPP was triggered but never delivered.

The way that operation was working when I made my orders, I wouldn't be surprised if Hashfast lost payments and doesn't even know who all its customers are.  When I paid for my upgrade card with a bank wire, it took a few e-mails to them, days after the wire arrived, to get them to acknowledge receipt.  They had to be sent the wire details a couple of times before they admitted receiving payment.

It seemed to me at the time, and even more in retrospect, that they had money flowing into their accounts that they didn't even bother to identify the source of.

Then again, I definitely don't put it past them to deliberately lose creditors it knows of as well.

I think this is reasonable (upgrade board sold for $1500 each, i.e. MPP for one BJ = $6000).  And that people should claim it.  I will.  I think it's also more than a warranty.  Hashfast said that the full MPP was triggered and it acknowledged that they owed us the hardware.  I see absolutely no reason not to claim it.

I would also really, really encourage people that don't appear on the list to make a claim and tell the Trustee that Hashfast didn't list them.

In fact, since between us we have all of Hashfast mailing list (as of a few weeks ago), why not send out a mass e-mail (once per alphabetical section) alerting them to this?  There are surely people not following this thread.

As far as I know, there is nothing for small orders to do at this point except to pay attention.  And prepare to react quickly when something is formally proposed.

I suppose that you can contact the court and ask to receive notice, but I don't believe that makes any difference in your status in the court's view.

I'm a small order too.  We just have to wait.

The one thing I'll say is that if a creditor's committee is formed, it would good for some little guys to be on it, to represent the, say, < $15,000 hobbyist.

I'm on the paper mailing list, and it's really rather pointless.  The filings come a few days later.  They are on inforuptcy much faster.  I think anybody that wants notice should request e-mail, unless you want to collect scrap paper.

I didn't say I ruled him out from being a pillager.  I was trying to be subtle.

If he was a pillager, he's placed himself in an interesting position.

That's what I was intimating with that sentence.  To an extent, Simon's actions now might be judged as indicative of his integrity.  The delays so far seem to indicate that he isn't in a hurry, which suggests....  On the other hand, if he wanted to run, he might have just assented to liquidation.

That's what the law allows them, and I agree they are wasting time, but there's no way in hell it will take that long.  

It's in Simon's and everybody else's interests at Hashfast to convert those chips into money, and they are prevented from doing that (except for 1000 chips) right now.  Everybody is pressuring them to do something.

The only people whose interest lies in a delay are those that have pillaged money/bitcoins, and who want time to help cover their tracks.  

Analysis suggests that ArmyofNone is about 20 years old and is so cocksure that he truly believes that he knows more about lawyering than lawyers, more about bankruptcy law than bankruptcy judges, more about Hashfast than Hashfast and, generally, more about anything than anyone. Your average suburban idiot child who's so wet behind the ears that he remains confident that when his 4th grade social studies teacher told him he was "brilliant" that it was true.

A Belieber who irrationally invested in the fantasy, proffered during Hashfast's dying gasps, that with just a little more time, they would pull through and ship everything.  Despite the massive debt, accounting irregularities, offshoring attempt, Liquidbits deal, etc, etc, etc.   Belieber's blaming the petitioners probably also has the psychologically comforting effect of him not having to face up to the fact that he, like us, sank money into this disastrous company.

That's a good point that should be clarified.