This thread just keeps giving.

Yeah. Quite the lot of hypocrites and lackeys around here. Theymos is even more of a grifter than the nutty Matthew.

I agree, and I include all the other shills and forum operators who facilitated this mess.

Not sure where you get that. I do think that standards should apply consistently and that those who hold positions of influence and privilege should be scrutinized more closely and held to higher standards in proportion to their responsibilities.

Please don't presume to lecture me about what is suitable for me. I don't seek central control to reinforce or obtain it. I seek it to question it and make it justify itself.

You're missing the point -- purposefully, I suspect. You didn't even try address anything of substance. Until we start holding people to account around here, this community (and by extension, bitcoin) will correctly be seen as a joke.

Aside from going against centuries of common law, this is insane. By that logic, there is nothing wrong with what Matthew did because it was up to bettors to have the same skewed concept of the English language as him. By that logic, I can set up a boobie trap to shoot someone in the face as they open a door and watch their head blow off -- only to say that they should bear the burden of inspecting each door they wish to open.

Knowledge and ability to prevent fraud and injury is definitely a factor when determining culpability.



So you're saying that this is a forum about scams? It isn't.

By way of his status as forum admin and gatekeeper, Theymos had a special obligation that Micon and all the other whistle-blowers didn't have: he controls the flow of information here (an especially naive group of marks). It makes him more responsible. I don't doubt that many "invested" because Theymos permitted these scams to be promoted here, which amounts to a tacit approval. Again, he is more reponsible than most.

Note that this is independent of Theymos knowingly making money from what he knew was a fraud. He doesn't even deny it.

And this is the attitude that will undo bitcoin. In your world, there is no accountability. No consequences for reckless "investment" of other people's money. Lying to people about "guarantees" and "insurance?" No problem.

Any reasonable person must conclude that the promised rates were impossible and either must come from fraud or other illicit activity. On this basis alone, pirate, his shills, the PPT operators, and yes, the admins who permitted them to advertise/promote these schemes on the forum are ALL to blame to varying degrees.

Sure. That's part of it. But blame also lies with those who run scams. It also lies with those who know about the scams and let them go on. It also lies with those who knowingly partake in scams when they understand that they are gaining from others who are being lied to.


But that's not what happened at all. Those who were duped were fools, obviously. But they were not fully informed about the terms of the situation. Theymos was aware of other information (by his own admission) and decided to 1) permit the deceptive situation (again - not like a casino where everyone knows the rules) to continue and 2) actively partake and accept money from those who didn't understand the situation. Those are ill-gotten gains which in the real world are subject to claw-back.

So now Theymos is all about putting scammer labels on people who deserve it. My point is that he isn't applying the same standards to himself. The word for this is hypocrisy. And it needs to be said in big red letters.

I've read your posts and am surprised to see that you refuse to understand the points being made.

My point is that it is too late to be screaming "transparency!" This is like running to buy fire insurance after your house is a smoldering slurry of ash and pisswater. The time to ask tough questions was before investing.

The only thing left to do is to punish the scammer and to not fall for this bullshit again.

I think you are giving him too much credit. His other actions strongly suggest that he knows fully well the likely consequences. His posting tactics (including those of his wife -- sorry, it's true) seem to go a bit too far for him to be just an "honest fool."

I'll just repeat what I have written before:

Apparently nobody bothered to actually read and understand the thrust of what Theymos wrote.

In his response, Theymos admits to taking part in what he strongly suspected was a ponzi scheme where others were being actively misled about the nature of the scheme. Theymos also proudly asserts that he did gain from this "fun" scam at the expense of others who were misled. He seems to think that the profits are "rightfully" his, despite him knowing that the coins were coming from people who believed the lies. By his own admission, he has demonstrated intent to defraud misinformed investors as a knowing participant in a ponzi scheme. This is not profit. These are ill-gotten gains, and he knew it.

"Investors" can only claim innocence if they were truly unaware that it was a ponzi scheme. Theymos can't claim to be innocent; he strongly suspected it was a ponzi scheme (again, by his own admission) and participated, despite this knowledge.

He then goes on give some flimsy excuse for why he not only tolerates but also encourages all manner of questionable and outright fraudulent activity on this board.

He now correctly calls out several scammers, but he can't see how his own actions facilitated what happened. He only took action when he was screwed out of a bet. He also can't (or won't) admit that his gains from pirate are ill-gotten.

Theymos played a huge role in all that has transpired, and most are just fine with it and the associated bad press for bitcoin. I doubt Gavin or Satoshi would have let this happen. In fact, Gavin has wisely dissociated himself from the forums.

Maybe now people will understand what I meant by that.

You're only a few weeks late to the party.

Yes. And not only because of a bank run. Scams tend to have the same effect.


Oh for Christ's sake. "Please say it ain't so, Patrick! Say it ain't so!"

Time to drain the swamp.

Let's get transparent. Your money is fucking gone. You won't see it in 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years, or 3 centuries.

Have a nice day.

Mind-bending. This place needs an enema.

Maybe. But you allowed yourself to be mislead.


This is one of the best features of bitcoin. I'll never be forced to subsidize the greed or idiocy of others.