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There is no legitimate, lawful reason for Nefario to make the provision of user information to asset-issuers contingent upon the return of all over payments. None. According to other shareholders, BG has a small amount of BTC reserves of its own. Those reserves should be used to top-up any short-fall in returned funds and after that if there's still a short-fall then Nefario should be buying the required BTC with his credit card.
It's pretty obvious that Nefario doesn't want GLBSE's own funds used to top-up any short-fall because he still wants to be paid for last month's work from those funds.
At this point, I hope there's a UK asset issuer who's willing to take legal proceedings to compel him to hand over their user list. The onus would be on Nefario to provide a good reason for not doing so and any judge would laugh at him if he pulled the "waiting for overpayments to be returned" bullshit.
in general there is not many laws that dictate how an illegal should be ran.... And no matter where he takes the money from of means less money in his pockets so its all the same. What's more greedy after all, feeding of an error or trying to make so people get they are owed from the funds for that purpose? Dude, wake up and smell the coffee: There are general laws abiding by moral values. Mr. James McCarthy has the moral obligation to return whatever is left after his fucked up decision to close shop - doesn't matter whether the shop is illegal or not. Remember "poor" James was making a buck on this, he's not a philantropic ONG, he's responsible and by not stanidng up to his responsibilities he's been labelled as scum a scammer. Greed is not the question here. I invested on legit mining businesses, not on a fucking 6% a week pyrascam. Everyone has the right to have their share back and Nef has to provide. If someone in the UK takes the step, will be chipping in to make sure he is fucked over legally even if I don't get shit back. Just for the moral principle. |
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Just got off the phone with James, he said he's not going to be producing trading history for anyone. As for releasing shareholder data, he said that he's asking for the extra coins his script sent out to be returned, and it looks like he won't be releasing shareholder data to issuers until that happens. He said about 3/4 of the extra coins have been returned.
You won't be suprised if I say I don't believe it unless some proof is released, will you? Especially when I got the confirmation email but not a single cent of BTC... and still have most of the pie stuck in assets. Be realistic. There is no fucking way anyone can be positive about this. And another great point is Nef playing the blackmail card once more... at first, "no BTC sent till shareholders give back what they owe" blah blah... now, "no assets till users return the btc sent by occasion of my Nth clusterfuck" for your and my amusement, what would be a good term in Newspeak to describe Nef? |
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I just assume Nefario is acting in bad faith untill I see something official from the lawyer.
And what would actually be the difference? That you believe you could get prosecuted or that you are advice that you are subject to prosecution pretty much calls for the same course of actions. And if he were to get legal actions from the SEC or similar entities, the fact that he unknowingly (which does not make you not-guilty) committed a crime and ceased operation when he got enlightened (with advice or not), would go in his favor big time, especially considering the crime itself was one with no permanent damage. If you like taking that much risk, just go to high rollers section of casino and sign your bank tab and go all in. The guy took a decision to put his life out of the cross hair. Not for greed, power or reconision. If it were for those reasons, people would not see those bitcoins in their wallets right now. Seems he only paid out a few token small accounts twice and then quit paying. We will need to see if he pays out the rest. I'm getting very, very tired of reading posts justifying James' actions. They're not even funny. He was in business to make a buck and people who are making a buck have responsibilities. Period. Then he decides to close shop suddenly and unilaterally, taking everyone's money with him and rendering assets worthless. [He could've closed shop and let everyone take out their money, assets could've been dissolved as well into BTC at current value.] Now he's redefining the term clusterfuck so deeply arms manufacturers might hire him as a designer. [This will, of course, literally explode on their faces.] But still, people stand up for him, incl. people that have lost btc over this and probably will never get them back. Wtf? I'm a positive person but... Goat, I bet we won't see any of that. Well, maybe something... but all in this schizophrenic, double-or-nothing, highly entropic way. |
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Reading the shareholders' meeting chat log in disbelief. He went from explaining in the conference how GLBSE was legally impossible to attack and how there was a contingency plan and others had the code and passwords to run the site, to this: [05/10/2012 17:28:29] <nefario> I won't be giving the server, domain, db or anything to anyone else
[05/10/2012 17:28:39] <nefario> I am shutting down GLBSE Fucking appalling. Where is my email? Be careful what you ask for... I got _just_ the email. Maybe ask for your BTC first... i have no comments on this unbeliveble hyperclusterfuck... btc is a nice progressive concept with great potential. like, say, nuclear power. problem: it's being handled like chernobyl |
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Nefario:
Don't go for the triple face palmin' summersault clusterfuck when you decide to take care of the assets.
Pretty please.
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Perhaps we send the double payments to theymos, he pools them then redistributes it among the unpaid people once we get some sort of a list of unpaid accounts from glbse?
huh... no? is everyone high in this forum? |
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I don't know fully what that picture says.
If its about smoking bitcoin, then so far atleast ~100 people said, they got bitcoins.
That means Nefrio didn't smoke bitcoins.
Or the picture has some other meaning?
Seems many who told received coins, didn't gave tx id or address.
maybe don't want to show publicly.
no, exactly that . [rotfl] |
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I too got double payment. Just checked.
If Nefario gives any address to send, i am ready to send back.
May be by mistake,he used the script, which already paid, to pay again.
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OTOH, he's paying job may be coming first, attending to the paying back task at hand when he feels up to it.
Wonder which kind of work he might be doing, given his modus operandi. We may find about it trailing a series of disasters. But since he ran GLBSE just for fun, as you say, he is justified in dilapidating the capital of hundreds of ppl who trusted him. Hey: he is giving them a free lesson on life and misallocated trust. He should ask to be paid for that. He did get paid for it, by the 10% he is pocketing and the rest of us that havent gotten our payouts. +1 Some people have double, others still missing payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118354.msg1281648#msg1281648. I see a storm coming. oh dear... like a good sitcom |
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OTOH, he's paying job may be coming first, attending to the paying back task at hand when he feels up to it.
Wonder which kind of work he might be doing, given his modus operandi. We may find about it trailing a series of disasters. But since he ran GLBSE just for fun, as you say, he is justified in dilapidating the capital of hundreds of ppl who trusted him. Hey: he is giving them a free lesson on life and misallocated trust. He should ask to be paid for that. He did get paid for it, by the 10% he is pocketing and the rest of us that havent gotten our payouts. +1 |
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Oh man... 60 pages... this soap seems to run on thin air!
Got the email 3+ days ago and still ZERO BTC...
Is there a substantial number of users in this situation?
Granted, I had very little BTC (<1) in my account since most was invested in assets but see that there are people in the same situation who did get it back.
More worried about the assets, obviously.
Any issuers caring to comment on this?
Any issuers received news from Nef or user data/emails?
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Received this email some 12+ hours ago, but still no BTC arrived on my wallet. no-reply@glbse.com
15/10/2012 9:46 PM
Your GLBSE account has been processed for bitcoin. The next step will be to send you information about your assets, and to provide this information to issuers (if you agreed) allowing you to continue your relationship with your issuers.http://blockchain.info/address/1BMjJkPZu1dS4ePpomL418UyL92ovhR2z8 shows no record of any transactions to the address provided by me. Sent an email to support (at) glbse.com asking for info. Why don't things just work out normally with me? Must be some karma issue... Anyone had the same issue? No news about assets, btw. |
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I just had a call with James, and he has said that there should be a way to claim what yours on GLBSE within a day, and everything in terms of shareholder info and people getting their btc back should be resolved this week.
He definitely could have closed the exchange a bit more gracefully, but according to him, he doesn't want to hold the high amount of liability he has attained any longer.
So let's stop the fud for a bit, and see how this week goes.
Best of luck to everyone involved,
Garrett
Thanks Garrett (I guess). Btw, you should update your websites, things are no longer being traded on GLBSE... And actually, following this thread will end up costing me more than what I have/had on GLBSE. No more fud for now... |
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Again... i say having a database with all the risks is better then having nothing.
+1 But realistically it seems very difficult, if not impossible, to set this up: Apart from the DB leaking/surfacing (with funding required... and a treasurer, etc.) you need to get most of these people issuers/holders/scammers/anonimity super freaks to agree... And there are not many guarantees it will solve the majority of people's problems, such as "free balances" and IPO funds being returned. Perhaps it gathers steam, but it will take time and is such as complicated task that i see it as unfeasible, unfortunately. Maybe there are other positive developments in the meantime. |
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ok since no one else has said anything yet since glbse is close what happens to all our shares that we owned?
The first step will be to compile a list of asset holders (identified by payment address) and corresponding amount of PureMining bonds. I hope Nefario cooperates in generating such a list, but just in case: If you have any PureMining bonds, please send an email to glbse at menirosenfeld dot com specifying the amount of bonds you had and a payment address (and preferably, some other details). If no information comes from Nefario and the claims are consistent, I'll consider going by the claims. Otherwise we'll figure something out (donation to charity is a possibility). The second step will be to find an appropriate technical means to distribute coupons as normal until an eventual buyback. The buyback terms will of course have to be modified since there is no longer trading on GLBSE (probably making use of the extrapolated lifetime earnings). I've also sent my information as mentioned above. I'll cross-post Nefario's thread here because the discussion is now focusing on aspects that concern asset issuers as well as holders. Your views are most welcome: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.msg1262096#msg1262096 |
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[Wait, am I AGAIN throwing BTC at yet another scamming opportunity??]
Its a shame to have to think about such. But i think at least the persons that want to stay anonymous could see a possible chance to stay anonymous and get their shares back. And every other person if nefario really doesnt deliver. Sebastian, do you have any suggestion on how to set this up? In my case it sounds like a way out, having 99% of BTC invested in assets (not much lying around free on GLBSE) and a big part of those 99% on assets whose issuers are wanting to cooperate and extend their relationship with holders. But others have to think about the possibility of asset issuers not honouring commitments or deeming such database invalid and also how to get back "free balance" they might have/have had on GLBSE. The scammers for sure will avoid attempts to recognize ownership of assets... and the "free balance" issue is entirely on Nefario's hands, AFAIU. |
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Posting here because someone might have missed it. Puremining (GLBSE bond) asset issuer has a positive, problem-solving attitude regarding the current situation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65569.msg1250765#msg1250765Now... If that database could surface somehow... I'd be willing to contribute to that. [Wait, am I AGAIN throwing BTC at yet another scamming opportunity??] |
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I'm doing some reading on the history of stocks and bonds markets and its fairly obvious there's another possibility. Nefario could have received an offer for GLBSE that was simply to good to refuse, the history of investment banks and brokers is full of examples of buy outs for several times more than the total value of the securities held or traded with them.
A fresh take on all the FUD. However, I think that is unlikely. Nefario would've kept the shareholders in the dark regarding this and all the stuff they spewed out here would be another layer of scam talk? |
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Second, without an easily accessible and decently safe market you just cannot trade them for their original worth, as risk lowers the price.
Such a market never existed, the price was artificially higher before because people were buying into the scam that an unregulated securities market could be safe. Oh... i'd love to hear you comment on the very safe and regulated markets of almost any western nation... hello Lehman? Hello US mega scandals? Hello Libor? All scandals, major and minor are more common minus the regulations. There would be no stock markets anymore without them as no one would dare assume the risk. Imagine the wealth of the nation gone because the board of directors of NASDAQ is having an internal dispute they are unable to settle and the CEO ran off with the passwords to turn the market back on. Heh. Maybe that explains the great FB fiasco? My point is that regulation means shit, the SEC is a puppet and exists to give an appearance of legitimacy but in the backstage things are just as bad as in this little BTC world. I'd dare say, worse. The FB rippoff actually makes a good comparison to what we are seeing here with GLBSE... bottomline: regulation or not, small fish get fried. |
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Second, without an easily accessible and decently safe market you just cannot trade them for their original worth, as risk lowers the price.
Such a market never existed, the price was artificially higher before because people were buying into the scam that an unregulated securities market could be safe. Oh... i'd love to hear you comment on the very safe and regulated markets of almost any western nation... hello Lehman? Hello US mega scandals? Hello Libor? |
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