Just as a random gander because it seems too simple ... The fatal flaw couldn't be that the genesis block is hardcoded into the source? Right?

That is, I say the fatal flaw is that the NXT genesis block is hardcoded into the source, so copycoins could theoretically connect to a nxt node and think the next legit block is that second block in the NXT chain, and then end up trying to download the entire Nxt chain instead of starting a new one for a separate coin.

I think the chance is slim that this is the correct answer, but hey, just in case it really is that simple.

On the unlock screen the client currently needs you to manually click the update button for the amount in your account to update, have you done that?

One could theoretically use an alias to point to the AssetID of the asset they sell.

@CfB - or anyone who has testNXT: donate to my account : 10356543424426272552

Donations appreciated.  Also you could buy my commodity on the AE, AssetID : 10956216527757194145 mainly for testing purposes ^^

@V4V

The problem with that escrow is that the consumer must to notify receipt of the item, so the only way to ensure that the incompetent consumer doesn't say "Yay, it shipped, I must be done with the transaction!"  and disappear into a cave, is if the shipment is somehow verifiable by the escrow itself.

Okay, come to think of it, there are shipping options that notify of receipt of an item, and integrating this into an escrow protocol can't be too hard to automate.  A system like this could solve the physical commodities issue.  For currency though, this could get very legally grey.

But combine this with a system to invest and receive dividends in a one stop manner, and I could see a big future in Nxt AE.

Though, I must say, paying Nxt itself is probably the simplest way to transact real commodities, rather than through the AE.  I think the AE should focus more on intellectual commodities.  A simple dividend system within the protocol could do amazing things.  Tough I do worry there are legal issues that arise from trading intellectual commodities in a peer-to-peer environment.

Edit: Shameless plugging of my asset on testnet!  Buy Vannicke's Zeroes and Ones!  Best digital bits in town!  AssetID: 10956216527757194145

Also, the client 0.0.5e seems much faster than 0.0.5 for some operations, such as adding asks/bids and moving through some menus.

Just to be certain, I did not mean "yes" in my post "Does this sound stupid?"  >_<

Its a decent idea, but there is an issue in who controls the asset accounts.  Unless I'm missing something, the only way we can send from the "permanent account" is if the account is controlled by a trusted escrow.  It's doable, but makes it less decentralized.

What might be interesting is to implement escrow right into the asset exchange, so that anyone can have a rated escrow account as well.  For example:

1. Jon wants to sell "asset" for Sue for 100NXT but has little or no rating.
2. Jon push "sell", and sends the asset to a linked and highly rated escrow account
3. Sue pushes "buy", 100 NXT goes to the linked and highly rated escrows account
4. If both things arrived to account then this account sends the 100 NXT to Joe and asset to Sue.
5. Upon successful transaction, the escrow, Jon and Sue all +1 each other for a good trade, thus developing rep for Jon, Sue, and the escrow.

Just an idea, still hard to implement the real world commodity part of the escrow, and maybe that would complicate it too much, but just an idea.  Still, I think ratings of some sort could establish trust.  As far as commodities go though, I think a system to easily implement dividends may prove useful, but I wonder the legal implications of such a thing.  But a full peer-to-peer trading platform would be excellent.


Edit: pardon me, I've derailed the thread to suggestions ... back to asset exchange testing.

Yes, but how would you implement this for real world items.  When Jon pushes "Sell" he can't send 10 ounces of bullion through the internet, for example.  This could be a decent way to send/recieve other cryptocurrecies, but who has the access to the escrow account in order to send the received BTC when Sue pushes "Buy", for example?  It could be done for some things like other cryptos, but how do you make it p2p and secure?  Real world commodity trade may be difficult with this approach.

I extrapolated from the amount of my assets I could transfer.  The client needs an interface that shows how many of what asset you have, it currently lacks that.

Edit: also I figured out how much RandomBux I had after hunting down the assetID number.

I can confirm that I have RandomBUX and that I sold 51 0sand1s and the appropriate amount of next has moved accordingly.

derp, put one in ... the client is very very laggy for me ... taking quite a bit of patience to get things in place ...

Put up an asset: 0sand1s  assetID: 10956216527757194145

Hmm, might I have some testNXT at 10356543424426272552

Edit: hmmm, is there a testnet explorer out there?

This only proves that you don't understand proof of stake.  Yes, all coins already exist, it's different for a reason.  Nxt is intended to NOT be a mined coin.  Does no one here actually care about making cryptos that serve the intended purpose of long-lasting decentralized currency?  Is everyone here just trying to eek a buck out of a Radeon?

Oh, God.  I think they are.  When did this community stray so far from the path?  Or am I the one that has fallen from the path?

The advantages in NXT that I see:

1: Potential for extremely high transaction volumes
2: Forging secures the network at a fee rate that gives no real or practical advantage to hording by forgers (as far as monetary increase in NXT).  By this I mean spending nxt will likely cost as many fees as I make in return, thus fees secure the network but end up back in my pocket as I secure it too.
3: No inflation, or devaluation, artificial or otherwise, at all, due to the 100% PoS nature.
4: Distribution BETTER in one month than bitcoin in four years.  (Please look at facts before you try to argue against this)
5: It's green. (Personally, this translates as portable, versatile, sustainable, and scaleable to me.  Environmentally, I don't care too deeply one way or another.)

The possible cons that people are arguing, and the reasons why I find them invalid or not enough to match up to the pros:

1: Closed-source: officially the source is not released, but decompiling classfiles in java is as easy as pointing and clicking a couple times.  The devs even made it decompile legibly.  But yes officially it is closed source so far.
2: Small time forgers get shafted by probabilities: mathematically the variance of 1,000 1,000NXT account versus a 1,000,000 NXT account is comparable to a 1TH miner vs 1000 1GH miner, so yes as time goes to infinity, the 1,000NXT account will do better, but the difference in each 1,000NXT account is still largely luck, and the end state probabilities are still only off by less than 1%, which is comparable to BTC variance over a year in practice. (I am asserting this number based off my own calculations and observations of others calculations.  Correct me if I am wrong.)
3: The developers can't code java: If you are basing this off the modified 0.4.7e code from the flaw finding thread, yes it is a bit crazy to wade through, but that file was made a bit obscure from the getgo for a good reason, more recent code has been refactored and takes in a great deal of effort found in the flaw finding thread.  But alas, that code was quite the long read.
4: How do we know NXT will be the biggest POS-coin out there?  Sure, we don't know this, but BTC is still the most widely used and valued, and it came first.  LTC is the highest after that, and it was the first to innovate a different way to mine that was (more) arms race proof, and PPC has a pretty sturdy value as the first partly PoS coin.
5: the devs could be stealing all your money, installing malware, etc, so, it's a scam: Again, there are a number of competent developers in the community perusing the decompiled code, and there is nothing that even remotely looks fishy pointed out yet, after thousands of man hours of code perusal, the likelyhood of this is shrinking infintesimally by the day.

Sure I'm not covering all bases here, but these five seem to come up a lot, and it annoys me that people aren't doing any research to support the claims.

I'm willing to bet that NXT will remain top in value and usage among 100% PoS coins because it was first to largely redo the structure of PoS in a 100% PoS coin.  Is it a gamble?  Yes.  But what cryptocoin isn't?  Will NXT be the perfect coin to end all coins?  No.  Something new and innovative may follow it, but I foresee it gaining much more traction in the coming months, and cementing it's position as the next cryptocoin milestone.  I don't believe any clone of NXT could do much better than NXT has, but if you think so, point it out, and maybe the devs will even include it themselves.  It is still evolving daily, and has a lot of potential.

tl;dr: Innovative things typically succeed over their clones, and NXT innovated.  There are pros and cons, most cons posted around here don't seem well thought through.

Jeeps ... only took me 8 days to finally get to the end of this thread, kudos to the many more experienced java coders than me that trudged through that beast of a file.

Even so it seems that the fatal flaw has not been found, I might not be able to get in much time to really tear into the logic in the code, with recent snow days I had a little time to delve into it, but I'll try in what time I can find anyhow.

Smaragda, gimre, ricot, ImmortAlex, doctorevil et al. (sorry if I forgot all your names >_<) awesome stuff!

Also curious as to why this thread has been silent for days... O.o

Many here consider crypto easy money, and NXT isn't really intended to be easy money.  While it has proven a good investment for many who got in at the start, I want to see this crypto as a good store of value, and that is something it has that others don't.  How could NXT be more fair than offering everyone profit exactly proportional to what you invest?  If I buy 50'000 and you buy 50, it would be unfair to give you just as much as me for having an account.  If forging is where some people have a hangup about NXT, I suggest reading into it further, because it appears (to me at least) to be much more efficient and fair, and even a bit socialistic in the ideal sense (I use this term hoping people understand socialistic is not communistic).  Whatever effort or investment you put forward yields the same as everyone else.  If the IPO is where people have a hangup about NXT, I ask: why shouldn't the earlybird get the worm?  As far as I can tell there is no room for anyone to complain, because getting in now is still early.  Sure, you won't profit like an IPO investor, but NXT has a lot to it that hasn't even started yet, and will attract more users, and more users, unlike any other coin, makes mining more profitable.  If people realize this, more will use it, so it will increase in value at the same time, which means it will increase in both value and profitability with more adoption.  I think this coin will be more stable and long lasting because of this self reinforcement.


Yes, there is risk.  Yes, the dev is very protective of the source (I also dislike this), but it takes little research to see that the amount of time and work needed to start this coin would be worth protecting it for a while.  In BCNext's position, I'd probably do the same.

Damn, had I noticed this sooner, I might have realized the ... ahem ... novel I just posted is probably not going to reach its target audience.  Oh well, hopefully I at least made thought-provoking observations.

Yes, I still like it, and I've been plenty fucked by banks, and I'm a teacher, so god knows I'll never be rich on my salary.

The point of cryptocurrencies is not supposed to be making money from nothing (or electricity), but it has that as a side effect.  If the reason that you are into crypto is to make the most Dollar/Pound/Euro/Yuan you can with your rack of 7970s, then you are (in my opinion) only securing the network for now, but not supporting a future where cryptocurrencies can continue to thrive.

I want to support that future, I like the idea of instantly paying a service in Indonesia from Canada, or sending some money to a friend across the country instantly, of being able to access my store of value anywhere, and actually owning the value of my money rather than having a piece of paper that says I am owed that value, while also never increasing the supply of the value and therefore diluting it.  BTC, PPC and NXT communities have some focus on this, and maybe a good number in the LTC community as well, but almost every other altcoin is either a clone for devs to make a quick buck just to let flop, or a coin for early miners to make loads of then dump and fade into disuse.

Let me voice an opinion: mining in BTC was realized to be an arms race that would detriment the coin by tying it to an industry of gross inflation, and so LTC came along to alleviate this by offering a different method of mining where preferential access to superior equipment did not mean access to higher profit.  PPC came along to further that by creating a system that rewarded those who actually invest and use the coin more than miners, who constantly dump newly minted coin, so that the coin could have a more sustainable future with a community of people who want a future with crypto in the long run.  NXT is continuing to evolve the idea of a coin with longevity, stability and versatility by rewarding you specifically for investing in NXT itself.

Those who complain that this is making the rich richer need to realize that it is making the poor richer at the same rate.  Certainly, if you invest more money, than you get more money, but EVERY other investment in crypto works exactly the same way.  If you buy ten 7970's and mine LTC you will make more than the guy who bought only 1 7970.  If you buy a Terraminer, you are going to make more than the guy who got a Jalapeno.  If anything the only reason that some are making more than others in any coin is because you got there later than they did, and certainly early adopters of NXT will too.  But what makes NXT different is you only need to invest in it ONCE.  Buy some of it.  I can't see why miners aren't flocking to PoS coins because of this, your miner will last maybe six months or a year before it becomes obsolete, and you can't use your Dogecoin as a store of value, but five years from now, your NXT will continue to give you more as more people adopt it instead of LESS when more people adopt it.

tl;dr: PoS altcoins are an efficacy to an unhealthy system. NXT will grow with the crypto economy as more people use it, an investment mining coins is profitable for a very short term but depreciates as more use it long term.

Okay: something I don't get, as a mathematician / math teacher.

Why are people insisting that only the rich get richer?  As far as I can see, if you have 10'000 NXT you will profit the same percentage as someone with 10'000'000 Nxt.  If the 10'000'000 NXT account makes around 200'000NXT in a certain time period, the 10'000 NXT account will make 200NXT in the same time period.

The only thing that you need to factor for is the 10'000 NXT account will have MUCH higher variance.

This is the exact same thing as POW mined coins, if you spend enough for 500MH/s mining sha256 you'll get a decent flow, but with MUCH higher variance than someone (like myself) who spent WAY more and have 500GH/s mining sha256.

I think that NXT has a future not so much as a cryptocurrency or altcoin as it has a future as a *currency*.  It may take a while to get started, but looking into it, I think it will be much more stable in the long term, specifically BECAUSE it is not dependant on mining power.

Green is not the only thing that makes this coin worth at least a good look.  Regardless of the IPO, and the fact that it may not have been well publicized and managed enough by some token, the NXT project itself looks a lot more sustainable in a long term because there is no "arms race" to mine it.  I also like the fact that enough was invested in it before it began that it started with a value worth more than a few satoshis.

I see NXT as a vehicle for successful investment in the coming months, but I see it as a currency proper in the coming decade.  I can't say I feel the same way about any PoW coin.  Too many people are looking at NXT in the same way they look at other alts, a short term way to make a quick btc.  I hope that at least a few people read this and realize crypto isn't meant to be just for quick money.  Mining is NOT the end all be all of crypto.

Disclaimer: I have invested more than five times the amount I have in NXT in mining hardware, I am not against mining, and I did not get into NXT until about Jan 10, after some source was released.

Wizkid057:

Spend an awesome day with Her (after everything is back running of course, got to be a selfish miner ).

dd363ce03eef3993a298f89fff6a9abf2b2e75043b8aad755c60c90be7fcb41a .03 from the other day
0d2023352bf88b3f1035bbc4f69a077d56814f4e2715f59408ce1c2bbefd30a3 .07 to round it off to an even .1 (to be used for HER only!)

-Van