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Sorry i am not chinese but i am very interested in what is going on these days in China. Dear people of Okcoin, could you do an statement about what is the situation with third part payment processor in China? In your statement of yesterday you talk about fees but says nothing about the changes in your relation with payment processor This reddit says some good things: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t2iay/okcoincom_present_situation_in_china_to_clear/but different news talks about a more dangerous situation. Would be very important for the bitcoin community to have your information by first hand. (People if already there are an official information about it, please let us know) thanks Google translation of my message to chinese: (human translation will be apreciated) 很抱歉，我不是中国人，但我在这是怎么回事，这些天在中国非常感兴趣。 Okcoin的亲爱的人，你可以做什么是在中国第三部分付款处理情况的声明？ 在你昨天的陈述你说说费，但一无所知的变化与付款处理你的关系说 这reddit的说一些好东西： http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t2iay/okcoincom_present_situation_in_china_to_clear/但是一个更加危险的境地不同的新闻会谈。 将是非常重要的比特币社区通过第一手有你的信息。 （如果人们已经有一个关于它的官方信息，请让我们知道） 谢谢 |
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Que buena idea amigos y amigas. Yo no tengo la economía para poder invertir en este tipo de cosas principalmente porque he llegado tarde a este mundo y ahora no tengo casi moneda fiducitaria para hacer vida o sea que menos tengo para poder andar gastando entre 8 y 10 bitcoins.
Que risa me ha entrado cuando alguien tilda de independentista a la cooperativa integral catalana. ¿Serio? La CIC no tiene nada de independentista, es mas, no creo que haga trabajo por eso en la calle sino por la libertad de todas las personas, que sean libres y darles herramientas para que se emancipen.
Me di una vuelta por su página web y vi una estelada, por eso lo comenté.  Como dice Aitiba estamos sobretodo por la libertad, si hay miembros de la CIC que tienen un interés por el proceso de independencia de Catalunya, es lógico que tengan un espacio en la web, para generar debate al respecto, (de hecho el objetivo del artículo al que haces referencia en su dia, fue ese, el de generar debate en relación al proceso independentista dentro de nuestro colectivo) pero la CIC no se ha posicionado y dificilmente lo hará por un estado catalan, como tampoco por mantenerse en el estado español, básicamente porque nuestro camino es construir más allá de los estados-nación |
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Yes, I see China closing all the bank accounts related to any millionaire or billionare. Who is BTC China for the chinese gov? Nobody. Are you joking or what?  We are talking about China. I saw USA who seized MT Gox accounts too. China can do that without any problem. China banned the financial companies to deal with Bitcoin. It is a fact. The financial companies(banks, insurers, exchangrs etc) must stop accepting any Bitcoin business(to open accounts and so on). Normally, all the exchangers from China must be licensed but they are not because they must follow strict rules after that. Even the exchangers should not be licensed(let's take this way too), the banks will not allow them to keep their accounts because they are dealing with Bitcoin. I am not interested what OKcoin or BTC China is saying. I am interested what the China gov is saying. The China gov said "all the financial companies must closed their businesses related to Bitcoin". Ok, in the future all is possible. But the question for this topic and for today is about facts not about imagination... So, the question with payment processors is related to the only one statement published by China central Bank: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/Not more statements published for the moment... And in this same statement, this central bank, wrote some questions about trading and regulating exchanges, with telecommunitions regulation authorities. Why they would be interested in regulatory issues, if they will going to ban all diposit options, like your are thinking??? here some quotes: 3 Strengthening regulation of Bitcoin websites According to the Telecommunications Act and the Regulation on Internet Information Service, websites that provide Bitcoin services like registration, trading etc should register with the telecommunications regulation authorities. The telecommunications regulation authorities, following the determinations and punishment opinions of the relevant management authorities, should close down illegal Bitcoin sites according to law. 4 Prevent possible Bitcoin money laundering risk Branches of the People's Bank should closely monitor the trends and activities Bitcoin and other similar virtual commodities with the characteristics of anonymity and easy cross-border access, seriously consider its money laundering risk, research and implement targeted preventative measures. The branches should include lawfully established organizations that provide Bitcoin registration or exchange services in its area into its anti-money laundering monitoring, and supervise them to strengthen their anti-money laundering monitoring. Bitcoin websites should earnestly carry out their anti-money laundering duty, confirm the identities of their users, have them register using their real names, and register their name and ID card number. If financial institutions, payment institutions or Bitcoin websites discover suspicious transactions involving Bitcoin or other virtual commodities, they should immediately report it to the China Anti-Money Laundering Monitoring and Analysis Center, and cooperate with the People's Bank's investigation; if they find evidence of fraud, gambling, money laundering using Bitcoins, they should report it to the police. “But, the general public have the freedom to participate in Bitcoin trading as a commodity trading on the internet on the condition they carry their own risk” “The Notice requires, that Bitcoin websites that act as the main trading platform, should follow the Telecommunications Act and the Regulation on Internet Information Service, and register according to law. Also, because Bitcoin has a higher risk of money laundering and being used by criminals, the Notice requires the relevant organizations to follow the requirements of the Anti-Money Laundering Act and fully comply with the legally required anti-money laundering procedures like KYC and suspicious transaction reporting, to prevent Bitocin related money laundering risks” Nothing has been officially published that make sense, about banning exchanges instead of regulate them |
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All the Bitcoin chinese exchangers will be closed until January 30.
BTC China is forced to close its business after China gov clarifies that all financial companies including "exchangers" must stop accepting Bitcoin.
This is totally false. Sources are only related to third part payment processors. january 30 is only related to payment processors. Third part payment processors have no influence in the future of exchanges. No problem with wire transfers have related and some payment processors yet are working with exchanges, because they are linked to bank accounts. Anyone really thinks that bussiness like btcchina or okcoin with millionary venture capital investments, are going to close?? You can see todays infos from okcoin http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t2iay/okcoincom_present_situation_in_china_to_clear/OKCoin.com - present situation in China to clear some confusion (self.Bitcoin) submitted 13 hours ago* by Aan2007 Funding account with RMB using your bank card through paygate Yeepay is for free without any fees and works fine. Until today they were using paygate Tenpay, today they switched to same as BTCChina. Withdrawing RMB is possible only to your chinese bank account where you must enter your name and your bank account (no anonymous withdrawals), withdrawal fee is 1% of transfered amount, minimum 2RMB and minimum amount to withdraw is 100RMB. OKCoin today followed BTCChina and introduced 0.3% transaction fee for your buy/sell orders and it's charging 0.0001BTC to withdraw BTC to different BTC address. At 1PM local time there is no lag on the market. EDIT: Only official statement from OKcoin today: https://www.okcoin.com/t-1005042.html3rd party processors should be really forbidden to manipulate with money related to bitcoin (which would explain why BTCChina switched today from Alipay processor (by far almost monopoly in China like Paypal in US) to Yeepay and why OKcoin switched from Tenpay (2nd biggest owned by Tencent, owner of biggest IM ntwork in world QQ) processor to Yeepay), but you can still fund/withdraw directly with your Chinese bank account which works fine even today both ways and it's instant when funding (when withdrawing it always took longer like 1-3 days). Nothing else about end of this in Spring festival (end of January 2014). Most of the announcement tell people to be reasonable, use common sense and explain why they had to introduce 0.3% transaction fee after zero fees until now. Most of the responding Chinese in forum don't care at all to ask about those rumors (3rd party processors, Spring festival doomsday) and just discuss fees. [edit] ah! and related to some articles like this one of forbes. Sadly some journalists are very confused adding personal comments without confirmed sources. the question of languaje + the question of legal language are creating big confusion issues |
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If this is true there won't be many ways to get bitcoins. Basically just cash in person. Sure, you can take bank transfers, but that will be illegal.
There is zero prove and zero motivation about bank transfers going to be illegal. Bank account are well validated and linked to a real person, So its an easy way to identity control for money laundering. As a commodity its 100% legal, to do a transfer to buy it, just like any other commodity. |
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okcoin statment for today https://www.okcoin.com/t-1005042.htmland reddit news: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t2iay/okcoincom_present_situation_in_china_to_clear/---------------------- Funding account with RMB using your bank card through paygate Yeepay is for free without any fees and works fine. Until today they were using paygate Tenpay, today they switched to same as BTCChina. Withdrawing RMB is possible only to your chinese bank account where you must enter your name and your bank account (no anonymous withdrawals), withdrawal fee is 1% of transfered amount, minimum 2RMB and minimum amount to withdraw is 100RMB. OKCoin today followed BTCChina and introduced 0.3% transaction fee for your buy/sell orders and it's charging 0.0001BTC to withdraw BTC to different BTC address. At 1PM local time there is no lag on the market. EDIT: Only official statement from OKcoin today: https://www.okcoin.com/t-1005042.html3rd party processors should be really forbidden to manipulate with money related to bitcoin (which would explain why BTCChina switched today from Alipay processor (by far almost monopoly in China like Paypal in US) to Yeepay and why OKcoin switched from Tenpay (2nd biggest owned by Tencent, owner of biggest IM ntwork in world QQ) processor to Yeepay), but you can still fund/withdraw directly with your Chinese bank account which works fine even today both ways and it's instant when funding (when withdrawing it always took longer like 1-3 days). Nothing else about end of this in Spring festival (end of January 2014). Most of the announcement tell people to be reasonable, use common sense and explain why they had to introduce 0.3% transaction fee after zero fees until now. Most of the responding Chinese don't care at all to ask about those rumors and just discuss fees. --------------------- So Btcchina and okcoin changed of payment processor to Yeepay because is better and added fees. But nothing is banned. |
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Gracias a ti también por organizar esa quedada y felicidades por inaugurar la cuenta de donaciones en bitcoins de la CIC!  |
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Bien, como tuvimos posibilidad hicimos el encargo de las máquinas que estaran en febrero. Si alguien quiere participar y aportar por ejemplo un lugar donde colocar una de ellas, podemos hablar de ello.
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Some days ago, the Catalan Integral Cooperative (CIC)* has became one of the first social organizations of the iberian peninsula in accepting cryptocurrencies: bitcoin, litecoin and freicoin. You can access at this link: https://cooperativa.cat/en/donations/This is only our first step in our accepting process for Bitcoin and other cryptos. We are planning to open a marketplace at the beginnings of next year in order to lets our 1700 members to sell goods and services with differents currencies. CIC promote firstly the social currencies https://cooperativa.cat/en/economic-system/social-currency-2/and will continue doing it but see the cryptocurrencies as a good tool to leave fiat money and the traditional banking system. * An Integral Cooperative is a tool to create a grassroots counterpower departing from self-management, self-organization and direct democracy, and one that would help overcome the actual state of dependency on the structures of the system, towards a scenario of liberty full awareness, free of authority, and in which everyone could flourish under equal conditions and opportunities. More info: http://www.cooperativa.cat/en |
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Desde hace unos días, la Cooperativa Integral Catalana (CIC) se ha convertido en una de las primeras organizaciones sociales de la península ibérica, en aceptar donaciones en cryptomonedas, bitcoin, litecoin y freicoin Podeis acceder a través de la página de donaciones: https://cooperativa.cat/es/donaciones/Este es solo el primer paso para la aceptación de Bitcoin y otras cryptmonedas en la CIC, Está previsto que a inicios del 2014, los ya 1700 socios de la cooperativa puedan vender sus productos y servicios aceptando estas cryptomonedas en el mercado virtual que se está preparando; asi como también podran pagar sus cuotas de socios. La CIC, promueve desde sus inicios las monedas sociales y en este sentido seguirá priorizando los Ecos (no convertibles a fiat), como moneda más prioritaria, pero ve con buenos ojos a las cryptomonedas como forma de ir abandonando paulatinamente el dinero fiat y el sistema bancario tradicional. Cabe recordar que algunos miembros de la cooperativa estan implicados en proyectos para Bitcoin, como informa esta noticia: https://cooperativa.cat/es/hazlo-tu-mismo-el-hacklab-de-calafou-en-unsystem/Más información de la Cooperativa integral Catalana en la página web http://www.cooperativa.cat/es |
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Buena idea, solo matizar
que desde mi punto de vista
litecoin merecería un trato a parte que las altcoin en general, dada su implantación como segunda moneda fuera de toda duda.
una opción seria un subforo altcoin y otro subforo litecoin.
otra opción seria mantener a litecoin en los foros de bitcoin
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Interesting proposal We are already doing something similar, with the same goal: To be an autonomos descentralized "state" (or no state, most of us, dont like this word...) We called our project Cooperativa Integral Catalana: http://cooperativa.cat/en/and we are aout 2000 members And our ideas Integral Revolution: http://integrarevolucio.net/en/Could be interesting to think in integrate the better of this cryptstate ideas, with what we are already doing. We are already involved in the cryptocurrencies world - Collaborating in some projects like dark wallet - hosted on thursday the first local meeeting of bitcoin in Barcelona - projecting a local marketplace accepting cryptocurrencies bu january 2014. Anyway we are working and growing fast, and i think that about 2016 we will be completarly autonomous.. Those are interesting links, but I have a few points of contention. I find it highly unlikely that a democratic model will be able to overcome the institutional momentum possessed by existing structures. The failures of democracy from an informational standpoint have been well-studied. Only an alternative political structure employing a superior decision making mechanism is likely to flourish. In addition, I doubt that the masses will ever be converted over to alternative political structures unless analogy is made to the ones that already exist. Bitcoin is easily understood since it's the same old concept of money but in a different medium. If you tried to tell people that it wasn't money but a revolutionary value transfer matrix or something like that then they'd probably be confused. "State" is similarly the best word to use to describe cryptostates even if their character is intended to be vastly different than traditional states. I also find it highly interesting that a group that claims to be against capitalism and private property is interested in Bitcoin. Care to explain? Our model is not a "democratic model" as you say. Our decision making process is something in evolution and can dinamically be adapted to a a new events. For instance, if we make an evolution that makes less posible our current system we will improve it. Our project is not for the masses. At least not in the short orr middle term. Also is not a system to be monopolystic in a territory. I thint tkat with a crytostate is the same: freedom to chosse the money. Freedom to be part of a system... About the question "why are we interested in bitcoin already discussed in this topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=295923.0 |
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Interesting proposal We are already doing something similar, with the same goal: To be an autonomos descentralized "state" (or no state, most of us, dont like this word...) We called our project Cooperativa Integral Catalana: http://cooperativa.cat/en/and we are aout 2000 members And our ideas Integral Revolution: http://integrarevolucio.net/en/Could be interesting to think in integrate the better of this cryptstate ideas, with what we are already doing. We are already involved in the cryptocurrencies world - Collaborating in some projects like dark wallet - hosted on thursday the first local meeeting of bitcoin in Barcelona - projecting a local marketplace accepting cryptocurrencies bu january 2014. Anyway we are working and growing fast, and i think that about 2016 we will be completarly autonomous.. |
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jeje, guai ver la foto, pero no os penseis que os tendreis que sentar en el suelo, que las sillas se pueden coger de la sala de al lado :-)
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Epa!
Creo que sencillamente se puede empezar haciendo un orden del dia abierto, de los temas que se quieren tratar (de hecho se puede empezar a hacer en este hilo) y llevarlo para la reunión, y me parece buena idea que al principio alguna persona se proponga como moderador y otra para tomar acta.
En todo caso no conteis en que yo ya lo tengo pensado, porque yo no puedo estar, (dada mi situación virtualizada actual)
así que soy en todo caso de los que les gustará leer una acta del encuentro.
saludos
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No olvidemos que esto es un debate que solo se está dando en estados unidosa nivel de estados.
igual habría que tenerlo en cuenta en la comunicación de la campaña
y pensar que USA ya no es el centro del mundo
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En la sala que está reservada caben unas 40 personas. ( a partir de 30 un poco apretadas)
Si se llena más que eso será todo un éxito y tendreis que ver como gestionarlo (de pie y en el suelo cabrian algunas más...)
para otra vez, si se queda un dia que no sea jueves, se puede conseguir la sala grande donde caben 150 personas o más.
saludos
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Hola a todxs Tras el debate de este hilo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323726.0y mientras para la máquina robocoin que cuesta una sola 20.000 dólares se ha creado un hilo con un proyecto que ya va concretando: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328060.0Por mi parte contacté con Lamassu-ATM machine https://lamassu.is/y me dijeron que el deadline para la próxima partida de lamassu será el 6 de diciembre (última fecha de pago) y que se prevé que lleguen a mediados de febrero. Estoy moviendo para que una de las máquinas sea para ir a Aureasocial en Barcelona, Como sabeis el precio de 1 es 5000 $ y el precio de 5 es de 4500 $ cada una. Por ello abro este hilo con el objetivo de que podamos reunir la compra colectiva de 5 máquinas, que tendrían que ser para la península ibérica por cuestiones logísticas Al precio actual del bitcoin las 5 máquinas serian entre 40 y 50 bitcoins en total. (17500 dólares) Es decir entre 8 y 10 bitcoins por máquina. La máquina lamassu acepta euros a bicoins y permite recibir bitcoins a cualquier wallet mediante QR. Como lo haremos: - No tenemos porque crear una proyecto empresarial juntos, pero quien quiera puede usar el hilo para juntarse con gente también. - Saldrían por tanto como máximo 5 proyectos con 5 máquinas. Aunque también puede haber un proyecto que compre más de una máquina - Por ello si quereis participar de la inversión, seria importante decir, ademas de lo bitcoins que podeis aportar, donde us ubicais, de forma que puedan ir saliendo grupos por zonas. - Para la de AureaSocial en Barcelona nosotros damos la cobertura de cooperativa seguro, igualmente está abierto a que otras personas se impliquen. También es una posibilidad que otro grupo de Barcelona encargué otra máquina con un proyecto distinto. A por ellas, entonces! Saludos, --------------------------------------------------------------- Enric 8-10 B (lugar aureasocial en Barcelona) |
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Igual estaria bién cambiar el título del hilo para poner que hay encuentro el jueves próximo, así podráan enterarse más bitcoiners despistados
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